Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation

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[edit] Templates: Trying again(Revision)

As I pointed out in the previously archived message, I'm trying to make Templates for the Long Beach Branch and Port Jefferson Branch, and I'm considering one on the Hempstead Branch. I admit I'm having trouble with it so here's one of them([[User:DanTD/Sandbox/Template:Long Beach Branch]]), let me know what needs to be fixed. ----DanTD (talk) 14:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you referring to line templates? If so, I will probably do it during the week, similar to templates created for Metro-North and New Jersey Transit rail lines.--AEMoreira042281 (talk) 16:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that's it. Maybe we could both work on the Hempstead Branch one. ----DanTD (talk) 17:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
If no one minds, I'll take part in this as well. I haven't been active around here lately, but I'll be lending a helping hand shall anyone need it. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 01:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Dan, I believed you missed several stations for the Long Beach Branch, But other than that, everything else seems fine, although you may want a second opinion. But in the meantime, I'll work on a line template for the Port Jefferson Branch. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 02:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I originally included Lynbrook, Valley Stream, and the Far Rockaway, Atlantic, Montauk, and West Hempstead Branches, but I decided to stay strictly to those south of Lynbrook. If you want to do anything about Port Jeff, check out mine(User:DanTD/Sandbox/Template:Port Jefferson Branch). ----DanTD (talk) 14:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

What I will also be doing is changing the subway line maps to blue, since subway/metro lines use blue icons, and railroad lines, like the LIRR and MNR use red, according to Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 17:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice job with the 63rd St line. I updated a few too. I'm missing a symbol for the Sea Beach line and one for the Queens Blvd line. (Those two symbols are still red on the corresponding templates.)
Acps110 (talk) 19:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps you should convert the IRT Flushing Line from red to blue and add the LIRR lines and former lines that it crosses over. ----DanTD (talk) 19:20, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I was planning to do the Flushing line, however it was kind-of messing with my head, yesterday. ;-) I'm not that familiar with the LIRR, but do you mean where the Port Washington & Main lines cross the Flushing line?
Acps110 (talk) 19:32, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
That and the Montauk Line at Hunterspoint Avenue & LIC, and the former Whitestone Branch. I've got to get my MTA Map. ----DanTD (talk) 19:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
You can go ahead and add those crossings if you like and I will convert the line to Rapid Transit later (Making sure to watch out for those new crossings). Acps110 (talk) 19:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] IRT Flushing Line fix didn't work

Blah! I just tried to fix the line template for the IRT Flushing Line, and I nearly ruined it. But know this; The IND Crosstown Line crosses IRT Flushing between Vernon Boulevard-Jackson Avenue station, and Hunters Point Avenue station. It's Hunters Point Avenue that connects directly to the Hunterspoint Avenue (LIRR station). The places where the 7 Train cross over the LIRR are west of 33rd Street-Rawson Street station(also crossing over Amtrak's various Northeastern lines), at Woodside-61st Street station where it connects to Woodside (LIRR station), and between Willets Point-Shea Stadium and the Flusinng-Main Street Station where it crosses over the former Whitestone Branch. ----DanTD (talk) 01:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for that info... I'll add the crossings tomorrow. Did you save your work where you messed it up? How about posting a link to that if you have it and maybe I can help you figure out what you did. Acps110 (talk) 02:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I added the crossings to the IRT Flushing Line, but don't have time to update the rest of the line to Rapid Transit right now. I will update it soon. Acps110 (talk) 10:13, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I myself will get to it as well. Also, if you come across any stations that are accessible, for both the subway and railroad lines, add those too. Something just crossed my mind. If we are updating the pictograms to the subway lines, and some have major elevated stations, accessible or both, some of the pictures are missing. (take a look!!!) If we will ever finish the other subway lines, we may have to create some of the pictures ourselves using Inkscape. I'll see what I can do, but I'll think start a discussion at the page I just posted first and address the problem there. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 16:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New York City Subway line map problems

Here's what I've noticed. First, I've pointed out that according to the pictogram legend at User:AlisonW/Rail Icons (the complete list) the lines had to be converted to blue to represent a subway line, not red, which represented railroads. But there are more problems. Some of the stations do not have a terminal station with the accessibility icon for minor stations, since not all stations serve express routes only. I believe there should be s standard set for the way our pictograms are made, and they should match with the legend; it's only fair.

, etc.: These should be used for open-cut or surface stations and lines; some perfect examples are theBMT Brighton Line and the BMT Sea Beach Line, as well as a segment of the BMT Canarsie Line

, etc.: To be used for underground stations and lines

, etc.: To be used for elevated stations and lines

There are way more. Also, The ADA icon for underground stations is not seen, implying that stations that run through tunnels don't have accessibility. If no one objects, I will make the necessary icons and bring them to the discussion page at Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms and see what they say. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 04:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Fixing the line map for the {{42nd Street Shuttle}} was easy. It's the rest I'm worried about. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 04:26, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 7 line extension

I just came back on Wikipedia and noticed two additional stations (10th Avenue and 34th Street) were added to the map on the 7 page. While apparently it represents the future 7 line extension, it does not make sense to add it until the station opens. I didn't remove it, but what do you guys think? should it stay or go? The Legendary Ranger (talk) 16:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Yea, I noticed it there too, but I don't see any harm leaving it there. We already made a line map for the Second Avenue Subway, which doesn't exist yet, as well as connections to the line seen on the 63rd Street Line map. If the plan is nixed, then we remove it. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 17:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Line Templates

Perhaps we should use the mileage column to insert an Handicapped/disabled access instead of changing the station icon right now. There really aren't enough icons in the Rapid Transit series, as opposed to the Railroad series. Some of the line templates were converted recently, with certain compromises due to the lack of icons.

for example...

IRT Flushing Line
uKBFa
Handicapped/disabled access Flushing–Main Street
uLUECKE
uBHF
Willets Point–Shea Stadium
uABZrg uKDSl
Corona Yard
uHST
111th Street
uHST
103rd Street–Corona Plaza
uBHF
Handicapped/disabled access Junction Boulevard
uLUECKE

This is a route-map template for a New York City Subway line.

For information on use of this template, refer to Wikipedia:Route diagram template.


instead of

IRT Flushing Line
uACCa
Flushing–Main Street
uLUECKE
uBHF
Willets Point–Shea Stadium
uABZrg uKDSl
Corona Yard
uHST
111th Street
uHST
103rd Street–Corona Plaza
uACC
Junction Boulevard
uLUECKE

This is a route-map template for a New York City Subway line.

For information on use of this template, refer to Wikipedia:Route diagram template.


Thanks, Acps110 (talk) 00:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I have mixed feelings about this. I think its best to use the icons that the list of them gives us, but we may have to make some of them ourselves. I am unable to do this at the moment (I'm using an iPod touch to talk as I write this), nor will I be able to make significant contributions during the weekend because of the lack of computer resources I have (my brother is constantly hogging the computer) but I can provide opinions as much as possible from this point on until the summer. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 02:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fresh Pond, Queens = Merge or not?

Completley off the subject of line templates, I just found a new LIRR station article, that's not formatted correctly. It's not even named correctly. Instead of saying Fresh Pond, (LIRR station), it's named Fresh Pond, Queens and categorized as both an LIRR and NYC Subway station, I suspect this is the same place as the Fresh Pond Road (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line). If so, shouldn't this be redirected to the existing subway station article? ----DanTD (talk) 00:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Well Fresh Pond is a residential neighborhood served by Fresh Pond Road and the eponymous subway station, and by the Montauk Line freight station which I imagine is closed now but I don't think it was converted to a subway station. So, I figure the article should discuss the neighborhood, or anyways locate it, and point at the stations, rail lines and any other articles that may be relevant. Jim.henderson (talk) 01:00, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Good point, Jim. Perhaps we should bring this article to the attention of WikiProject New York City. ----DanTD (talk) 01:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I believe that there was a station called Fresh Pond for the LIRR, and it should not be confused with the Myrtle Avenue Line station. I agree that WP:NYC should be notified about this because Fresh Pond seems like a neighborhood, but I could be wrong. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 02:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
All true. I bicycle through Fresh Pond a few times every year on my way to Brooklyn or Flushing or the Rockaways or whatever, hence am familiar with it and the Fresh Pond Yard. Unfortunately I haven't happened to pass through there since becoming a photographer in October, so got no picture. This weekend I'll be pedalling Bike New York which will probably produce a few nice shots from bridges, and won't get far from East River, but maybe we'll get pictures in another part of May or June. Jim.henderson (talk) 05:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, now it's bigger and on the whole better, but the bus depot still isn't properly linked and I'm getting the impression there are two rail yards, one for Montauk Branch and one for Myrtle Line. Neighborhood relations probably have an error or two; I only go through on main streets and sometimes along the west side of the cemeteries. I have to stop and talk to the inhabitants one day; maybe this month I'll go there instead of to Monmouth County or the Hamptons, both of which I haven't seen this year yet. Jim.henderson (talk) 05:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

You know, if anybody were to create a more acceptable Fresh Pond (LIRR station) article, the City Terminal Zone page would be a great place to start. ----DanTD (talk) 13:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger of bus articles of the MTA

Two moves are being proposed:

My basis for wanting to do this is this press release by the MTA here: http://www.mta.info/mta/news/releases/?en=080507-HQ15. In it, it says that there is now one head for all three bus operations (Thomas J. Savage, who ran MTA Bus, retired, and Neil S. Yellin, who had run Long Island Bus, moved to LIRR), with the existing head of the NYCTA Department of Buses, Joseph Smith, taking over all three. Furthermore, while the brands are to be retained (and would be included in the new article), each operation is no longer distinct from the other (one planning office, one management), unlike Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North Railroad, which are distinct operations.

Your thoughts? --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 20:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Oppose -- They're still not the same companies. They're just all controlled by the MTA. ----DanTD (talk) 00:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment -- However, they are simply three brands under one management. They WERE distinct companies (or operators) before. Now, it is one operator operating three different brands, a la Coach USA. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 00:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Agree - The moves seen this week are really a way to effectively merge the bus divisions without going through all the hassle of changing the acts of incorporation, much the same as the NYCTA is part of the MTA only because the same people are appointed to both boards. A single article on MTA Buses, which mentions which depots/routes are under which legal entity, would be cleaner and easier to find and read. (P.S. I don't think the distinct brands are going to last, either. Most can't even tell the difference between a NYCT Bus and an MTA bus, anywho.)oknazevad (talk) 20:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Neutral, possibly leaning to support. I want to know if the existing articles will remain in place. Those articles should be kept for broader detail, while possibly, the merger article contains consolidated info. —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 20:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment: Would be open to that, having a big article on the buses and then individual articles on the different brands. A model of this would be in the New Jersey Transit article, which has separate articles for bus, rail, and light rail. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 22:35, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Comment #2 That, as far as I can tell, is the point of the Buses in New York City article, which is a bit of a mess and, frankly, redundant. There's a lot in the articles that is "crufty" minutia as it stands.
I think that this pseudo-merger gives us an opportunity revamp the NYC bus articles into a sleek, easy to read and easy to navigate pair of articles, one covering the bus routes and which depots they run out of, and one covering the fleet of bus models used. In other words, the original proposal.
More articles are not needed. After all, buses by their nature are not fixed guideway vehicles, so articles covering the fixed guideways are not needed. If the articles get too long, then maybe we can split them, but I'd also be careful about trying to cram too much easily, rapidly changed detail into the articles. oknazevad (talk) 20:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment 3: Two points, however: Buses in New York City covers all transportation in the city, not just MTA-specific branding...and second, it does not cover Long Island Bus, under the same management.--AEMoreira042281 (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Barely, though. A really brief mention of NJ transit and Greyhound barely covers the non-MTA buses in the city, and makes no mention of the infamous Chinatown Bus companies. Honestly Buses in New York City should probably go, it supplies no information that's not in other articles, and probably in general, the topic of buses serving riders within NYC and the Metro area would be best servedd by fewer, more tightly written articles.oknazevad (talk) 20:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Commons tags for LIRR lines; Yay or Nay?

How do the rest of you feel about the idea of commons tags for articles on specific Long Island Rail Road lines? I've certainly been able to add my share of stations with their own commons tags over the past month. ----DanTD (talk) 13:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Quick question: Just what are common tags? (I've never heard of these before.) —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 21:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Let me show you an example on this article; Montauk (LIRR station). ----DanTD (talk) 00:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes. Good idea. Jim.henderson (talk) 00:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I tagged most of the lines. Now I've got to wait for somebody to approve the images that are currently tagged for movement to the commons so I can add them to the appropriate galleries. ----DanTD (talk) 01:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)