Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association page.
Archives: 1


  1. July 2005 – July 2006
  2. August 2006 – January 2007
  3. February 2007 – March 2007
  4. March 2007 – July 2007
  5. July 2007 – January 2008
  6. January 2008 – April 2008


Contents

[edit] Template for each row in standings

For a template such as Template:2007-08 NBA Southeast standings, I think it would be better to have another template that automatically computes the GP, W, L, and PCT columns after passing in the home wins/losses and road wins/losses. This should reduce the probability of error, and make updates easier and quicker. The beginning of the standings source code could look something like this:

{| class="wikitable"
! width="40%" | [[Southeast Division (NBA)|Southeast Division]]
! width="5%" | GP
! width="5%" | W
! width="5%" | L
! width="5%" | PCT
! width="7.5%" | Home
! width="7.5%" | Road
! width="7.5%" | GB
|- align=center {{#ifeq:{{{team}}}|ORL|bgcolor="#CCFFCC"}}
{{NBA team standings
 |team = [[Orlando Magic]]<sup>3</sup>
 |home_wins =    25
 |home_losses =  16
 |road_wins =    27
 |road_losses =  14
 |games_behind = --
}}
|- align=center {{#ifeq:{{{team}}}|WAS|bgcolor="#CCFFCC"}}
{{NBA team standings
 |team = [[Washington Wizards]]<sup>5</sup>
 |home_wins =    25
 |home_losses =  16
 |road_wins =    18
 |road_losses =  23
 |games_behind =  9
}}
...

Any comments or suggestions? —LOL (talk) 00:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Seems like a great idea. ● 8~Hype @ 04:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
This makes sense. Just be aware, however, that if this template format is going to be applied in other contexts (e.g. for division standings in prior seasons) that it was common in the NBA from the early 70s and prior for teams to play on neutral courts in addition to home and road games. For example, the 1964-65 Celtics went 27-3 (home), 27-11 (road), 8-4 (neutral) for a season record of 62-18. So, the template would need to be extended to handle games played on neutral courts for the early NBA seasons. — Myasuda (talk) 13:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up; I was not aware of neutral courts. The older teams can therefore have two extra parameters for the neutral wins and losses:
{{NBA team standings
 |team = [[Boston Celtics]]
 |home_wins =      27
 |home_losses =     3
 |road_wins =      27
 |road_losses =    11
 |neutral_wins =    8
 |neutral_losses =  4
 |games_behind =   --
}}
—LOL (talk) 20:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, I only intend to use this template as a facilitator for updates throughout the regular season, so it should be subst'ed before the start of the next season and I don't have to worry about neutral courts. The template is slightly different from the original plan above, but editors are still only required to update five values (home_wins, home_losses, road_wins, road_losses, games_behind). The template can now be found at {{NBA team standings}}, and an example at {{User:LOL/Sandbox}} (derived from {{2007-08 NBA Southeast standings}}). Here's {{User:LOL/Sandbox|team=ORL}}

Southeast Division W L PCT Home Road Div GB GP
Orlando Magic3 52 30 .634 25–16 27–14 12–4 -- 82
Washington Wizards5 43 39 .524 25–16 18–23 10–6 9 82
Atlanta Hawks8 37 45 .451 25–16 12–29 9–7 15 82
Charlotte Bobcats 32 50 .390 21–20 11–30 7–9 20 82
Miami Heat 15 67 .183 9–32 6–35 2–14 37 82

—LOL (talk) 21:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Good idea, but the columns should be modelled after Template:2008-09 NBA Southeast standings, i.e. "GP" should be at the end, as some would think "GP" is "W" and "W" is "L", and a "Div" column has to be added. ● 8~Hype @ 11:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Done. Only one parameter will be used for "Div" because the division W–L record will not be used in any calculations. —LOL (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Great work, as usual. ● 8~Hype @ 22:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] David Stern article

Hey, guys. I noticed that dang near half of the David Stern article is a section on controversies and criticisms. That seems to be a terrible POV and undue weight problem. That section should be truncated down to one small paragraph. And, now, I might be wrong, but it seems to me that the term "best commissioner in sports" is a phrase applied to Stern more than any other sports commissioner. So, it seems like the fact that half his article is an attack with absolutely no praise for his performance seems to be way out of line. If the article isn't improved in the next week or so, I'll tag it with a POV template and get around to working on it when I can. Chicken Wing (talk) 22:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

You might as well tag it now :) Chensiyuan (talk) 23:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Low numbers of FAs

Looking through our Statistics, I see 25 Good Articles and only 5 Featured Articles. Quite simply, I think a 5 to 1 ratio of GAs to FAs is not a good thing. Maybe some of the articles simply can't be FAs yet (maybe Yi Jianlian, for example). But I think a lot of them can be FAs with a little attention and cleanup.

So, what I'm proposing is that we start a Collaboration of the Month, which is what a lot of other WikiProjects already do. However, I'm proposing that this be an FA Collaboration of the Month. We would pick an existing GA, and focus specifically on getting all aspects of it up to FA-class. If all goes as planned, then we would have at least one candidate per month for FAC.

And on another side note, I think that it would be nice to also work on some lists. In that respect, it seems that WP:NFL has done a great job on that, while we are lagging behind. For example, for lists of teams' draft history, I see we only have 10 out of 30 articles created, and only five are complete. There is a lot of work to be done on those. Noble Story (talk) 06:20, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Quite often, people voting on FACs look out for books on the subject matter. It's quite baloney to me because, it's the age of the internet and besides, not every subject matter would have a *good* book written about it -- so what you really need are a good mix of reliable online sources. But to be on the safe side, we should just pick a subject matter that has some books on it (aside: I know somebody's (Nishkid64) working on Bob Cousy cos he's armed with a book on him, but I think he's splitting time with college). In addition, subject matter that have books written about them are likely more interesting and would engage more members of this project. When Michael Jordan was nominated for FA, quite a number of people here dug in. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking maybe someone like Magic Johnson, a current GA, might be of considerable interest. For the record though, I'm not a fan of Magic! Chensiyuan (talk) 07:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Any positive reinforcement for this idea (the collaboration)? I'd like to be bold and just start it right now. Noble Story (talk) 09:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Well I'm always around, just drop a message. Chensiyuan (talk) 12:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've started the Collaboration. If we get just maybe three or four editors working steadily throughout the month on this article, then it could easily go the FAC. Noble Story (talk) 08:44, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

One thing I notice about the Magic article is that it could do with more refs. Specifically, series scores and player stats. The wikifying is also inconsistent in parts; I think to avoid double efforts if there's any willing to undertake a specific task that'd be good. Chensiyuan (talk) 12:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
It's since been removed, but given the amount of treatment in the body to the Johnson-Bird rivalry, the lead should mention that. Chensiyuan (talk) 01:43, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it should be. However,the part I removed was rather POV, especially the part about Bird and Johson reviving the NBA. Noble Story (talk) 02:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Well I think we can resolve this in due time when the body is sorted out. Nice to see a bunch of us getting involved in this article a little at a time. Does anyone think we should try to engage a good copyeditor to comb through the article eventually? Chensiyuan (talk) 08:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NBA WikiProject May Newsletter

The NBA WikiProject Newsletter
Volume 1, Issue 2 • May 5, 2008 • Written by: Noble Story
News
Improved Content
Current Projects
Collaboration of the Month

Magic Johnson has been chosen to be our very first Collaboration of the Month article. Although this is article is already a Good Article, it still can be improved. The goal is to improve this article by the end of May so that it can be nominated for Featured Article status. In particular, free-use images should be found for the article, all Manual of Style guidelines should be followed, and a neutral point of view should be maintained throughout the article. If there is anything you can do to improve the article, then please help out.
Archives • Newsroom
If you would not like to receive this newsletter, please remove your name from this list.
This newsletter was delivered by Noble Story (talk)

[edit] 2008-09 season

All the team articles for the 2008-09 NBA season have to be created. Please create the pages accurately and take 2008-09 Charlotte Bobcats season or 2008-09 Boston Celtics season as examples. Also, after creating an article, please update the seasons template of the respective team. ● 8~Hype @ 11:13, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GAN: 2007-08 Boston Celtics season

I've added 2007-08 Boston Celtics season to the good articles nominee list. Please feel free to review the article. ● 8~Hype @ 11:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Even though I'm sure you're keeping a constant eye on the article, but because Boston's season is still ongoing, some GA reviewers might take issue with that (stability criterion). Just a heads up. Chensiyuan (talk) 11:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
"Mm, after having some experience with the GA process, I think you'll get a few problems from the reviewer. In particular, the length of the article and the long lists it contains. And, take a look at this. GA Quick-fail criteria: "Issues that may warrant a "quick fail" of the nomination include...The article specifically addresses a currently unfolding event with a definite endpoint." I think this article might qualify for a quick-fail. Noble Story (talk) 11:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

But if it fails, would it qualify for GA status after the end of this season? ● 8~Hype @ 11:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Personally I would just wait till the end of the playoffs. It could be a long wait I know, but at least in the meantime you might receive some useful feedback from this project's members. From a quick look, the article's main strengths are referencing and images. I would agree that the length could do with some work. Chensiyuan (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Newsletter delivery

User:Noble Story just asked me if I can deliver the newsletters with my bot, and I just wanted to say that I can. Just let me know when they're ready. Thanks! - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 12:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2008-09 game logs

All game logs for the 2008-09 NBA season have to be created, according to Template:2008-09 Boston Celtics season game log, and the team's colors (which have to be taken from the team's roster template, e.g. Template:Boston Celtics roster). ● 8~Hype @ 19:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Let's just wait until the 2008-09 schedule comes out, OK?--Crzycheetah 20:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
We might as well do that. ;) ● 8~Hype @ 21:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The award section of the NBA player infobox

I looked at a few NBA players articles and noticed that people put the award in the infobox using different styles. (For example, take a look at Kevin Garnett, Shaquille O'Neal or Steve Nash and compare) So it makes me wonder if standardizing the way we put awards in infobox is a good idea. Sort of like the Manual of Style of NBA articles. Any thoughts? —Chris! ct 04:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur. Kevin Garnett should be taken as an example. ● 8~Hype @ 10:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
"While we're at it, why don't we create an article guideline, maybe similar to to the guideline that Wikiproject University has? I'd like to go ahead with this, if I get some OKs on this. Noble Story (talk) 11:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I can help out, too. Just let me know. —Chris! ct 16:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea. The lists and tables in NBA articles are especially inconsistent, so a standard should be set.
Regarding the awards section of infoboxes, I find Shaq's layout to be the best out of the three examples because it has a moderate length and the numerals are easy to read in a list. The listing of years in KG's awards section stretches the infobox a lot, reducing readability, so I'd like to get rid of it because the Achievements section already has all of it covered. As for what should be included in the awards section, I think only actual awards belong. Making an All-NBA team or defensive team, and being an All-Star or NBA champion are not actually awards. —LOL (talk) 23:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Then "Awards" should be renamed to "Accomplishments", although this word is too long for the infobox. And if it stretches the infobox, it indicates that a player has been succesful. ● 8~Hype @ 00:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
"Honors"? But not perfect either. Chensiyuan (talk) 05:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Not only a standard need to be set, but I think it is necessary to create an NBA article guideline, so that editors can refer back to it later. As for the awards, I like the KG example more. I don't see how the award section reduces readability. —Chris! ct 00:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, it does affect readability a little now that I look at it again. —Chris! ct 01:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
A player's success can easily be represented by cardinal numbers, as Shaq's and Nash's already are. When counting the awards that the player has received, it's easier to add up numbers that are conveniently aligned on the left side than to count all the years in a lengthy, skinny list. In addition, success should not be measured by the length of the awards section. Following KG's current format, the list of a player who's won just one of every award would be just as long as the list of a player who's won four of every award, but the latter player is obviously the better one by far. —LOL (talk) 02:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Team seasons

First of all, I think all teams should have the seasons template according to Template:Boston Celtics seasons. Secondly, I would like to modify Template:Boston Celtics seasons, but don't know exactly what to do.

  • 1946-47 should be right above 1956-57, not 1949-50, etc.
  • All of the seasons of a decade should take the whole width of the template, i.e. it should be sorted in columns, without "•" between each season.

I have already tried to make those changes, but I applied a different format. Here's what I got:

v • d • e
Boston Celtics seasons
History • Seasons
1940s 1946-47 1947-48 1948-49
1950s 1949-50 1950-51 1951-52 1952-53 1953-54 1954-55 1955-56 1956-57 1957-58 1958-59
1960s 1959-60 1960-61 1961-62 1962-63 1963-64 1964-65 1965-66 1966-67 1967-68 1968-69
1970s 1969-70 1970-71 1971-72 1972-73 1973-74 1974-75 1975-76 1976-77 1977-78 1978-79
1980s 1979-80 1980-81 1981-82 1982-83 1983-84 1984-85 1985-86 1986-87 1987-88 1988-89
1990s 1989-90 1990-91 1991-92 1992-93 1993-94 1994-95 1995-96 1996-97 1997-98 1998-99
2000s 1999-00 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

However, there is still one issue to be fixed: The "v • d • e" in the title should be all white (team color) instead of the generic blue. Is there any way to fix it? And generally, is there any way of doing the changes without altering the format of the navbox? Thank you in advance. ● 8~Hype @ 14:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

You can modify the colour of "v • d • e" by adding |fontcolor=white within {{Tnavbar-collapsible}}. —LOL (talk) 18:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much. You always help when it is needed. But is this format a good idea? Should all the season templates be modified like this? ● 8~Hype @ 18:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't have any strong feelings about the new format, but I do like the fact that the right side is no longer blank. —LOL (talk) 18:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I definitely think that the template you've displayed above is better than the one that is currently used. I'd go ahead and change it. Noble Story (talk) 09:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Championship roster templates up for deletion

User:Djsasso has marked all the championship roster templates for deletion. I'm for keeping them myself, but I thought this wikiproject should help reach a consensus. The discussion is here. Dknights411 (talk) 17:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This issue is currently under deletion review here. If you haven't already and are interested in this topic, please provide your input. If the deletion holds, the NBA championship navboxes will be deleted. - Masonpatriot (talk) 16:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Magic Johnson FAC

Feel free to comment here. Chensiyuan (talk) 07:53, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a note: "drive-by" supports are not the way to go. If anything, they will hurt the candidacy, not help it. In-depth, helpful comments are much more useful. Noble Story (talk) 01:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
That is a curious observation -- I don't think they "hurt", they just don't do anything. Chensiyuan (talk) 04:45, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
That's actually incorrect, Chensiyuan. For every unsubstantiated "support" comment, other reviewers who find significant problems have to struggle harder to demonstrate that the article should not be promoted. If there are 3-4 "support" comments and one "oppose" with a list of issues, the FA director also has a harder time determining consensus. --Laser brain (talk) 17:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
At almost every FAC I've witnessed it's just a couple of people holding the fort, with the rest casting ostensibly perfunctory support votes. But that doesn't mean the latter is counter-productive or demonstrative of a lack of understanding. It's just how the cookie crumbles; too many cooks spoil the broth. My point really is that one just has to AGF, and if a "vote" seems suspiciously drive-by, a quick check on the user's background should resolve credibility issues. How much more can a person say when he or she supports a candidature? He or she would have plenty to say if it is "oppose", but the converse -- I find it hard that people can really say anymore (apart from the one or two holding the fort). On the other side of the coin, users who pummel the process with a whole litany of self-perceived helpful comments also exist. But I think one just has to accept both classes of users; neither are by default destructive. At the end of the day the FAC director just has to make that judgment call. So there, I've explained my viewpoint and won't be posting further on this, thanks. Chensiyuan (talk) 23:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seattle SuperSonics proposed relocation to Oklahoma City

This was a page I created because I thought that the topic deserved its own article. In a period of just over a month, there have been 238 edits (7.4 a day, which is a lot), and lots and lots of edit-warring. I'm not going to take a stand for either side, but I think the article could use a little help from some neutral third-parties who know at least something about the procedures. Anyone who could help regulate would be more than welcome to do so. Noble Story (talk) 09:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Once the move of the franchise takes place, it will all be moot as most likely it will be summarized into a line or two and merged into the team article (to avoid undue weight) per precedent involving moved professional sports teams. B.Wind (talk) 15:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
    • In my opinion, I think it's a bit too big to just be summarized. I think it will stay as its own article. And whatever happens, right now, it still needs oversight. Noble Story (talk) 15:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Russell FAR

Bill Russell has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Zagalejo^^^ 06:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template:NBA seasons

It has an error. If the season is e.g. 2007-08, the link to the NBA Draft should be 2007 NBA Draft, not 2008 NBA Draft. Please inform me as soon as it is fixed. ● 8~Hype @ 14:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed now, hopefully. —LOL (talk) 23:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Great work, as always. ● 8~Hype @ 04:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pau Gasol=Mid Importance

Pau Gasol is currently a GA, but it is not shown as such in article importance. Gamloverks (talk) 02:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Importance is related to how important the article is to the particular WikiProject. The class is where its rated Stub, Start, B, etc. I hope that answers your question. Noble Story (talk) 02:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
No, I know that, it shows it now, but I mean Gasol wasn't listed as a GA in the Chart for GA/Mid-Importance, it is now. Gamloverks (talk) 03:55, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Too much biased things on pages.

I was reading many NBA team pages, and I noticed that a lot of pages were very biased. For example, on the Miami Heat page, I edited it because someone had that it was fortunate that two players were sitting out. You aren't supposed to give your opinion at ALL, correct? You're supposed to state the facts. Just thought I'd bring that up! Y5nthon5a (talk) 02:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You are correct in that we are definitely supposed to be neutral. I really think that the team pages our this project's weakness. Toronto Raptors is the only page really well-done. The rest are just long and un-sourced. That's a problem which has to be addressed at some point. Noble Story (talk) 02:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I think I may start working on it tomorrow, it's too late to start tonight, and with a game on, haha. I will begin on researching for each page and adding sources, changing text to be more unbiased, etc, tomorrow. Y5nthon5a (talk) 02:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Sounds great. More power to ya. Noble Story (talk) 03:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Long and unsorced? How about the Boston Celtics season? ● 8~Hype @ 04:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I was talking about the main team pages (i.e. Boston Celtics). Noble Story (talk) 04:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I see. ● 8~Hype @ 04:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] San Antonio Spurs

Wow, this page doesn't have any new news from this season. I have only recently started watching basketball(around the end of the season) so could anyone please update this page? Thanks.Y5nthon5a (talk) 04:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yet another example of the weaknesses of almost all the team pages. I'll try to work on adding at least some basic info. Noble Story (talk) 04:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Should we pick a team page as a collaboration for the month of June? Most of them are in a pitiful condition, I noticed it when I assessed them all several months ago, the results are here. The question is what team to select. Any suggestions?--Crzycheetah 05:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't know, maybe we should stick with improving current GAs to FAs right now. Tackling those team pages would be a very large task. Noble Story (talk) 06:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Great images of the NBA

I've seen that a lot of NBA player articles are rather bare of images. So, if any editor is looking for images, I would suggest looking here. The Flickr user who took all the photos is a professional sports photographer, so all his images are very high quality (unlike most of the blurry ones you see on a lot of articles). I've requested his images before for Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady, and he's agreed both times. So I would recommend taking a look at the collection to see if any articles could use some of his photos (I know there are a lot that can). Noble Story (talk • contributions) 03:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Template

Hey there, WP:NBA. I've put together a template for stadiums that have moved out of the "purposed" phase and have had physical construction started.

Template:Stadium_under_construction

 This article or section is about a stadium that is currently under construction.
It may contain information of a speculative nature and the content may change dramatically as the completion of the stadium approaches.

Use it as necessary! Thanks! -- MeHolla! 22:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)