Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jewish history

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shortcut:
WT:JH


WikiProjects related to


Jewish topics
WP:Judaism
To-do

Discussion board
New articles • Deletions
Weekly Torah portion
Portal:Judaism • Portal talk
WP:Israel
To-do

Discussion board
Notice board
Collaboration OTW
New articles • Deletions
Portal:Israel • Portal talk
WP:Jewish Encyclopedia
To-do

Discussion board
WP:Jewish history
To-do

Discussion board
New articles
v • d • e

Contents

[edit] Announcements

[edit] Votes for deletion

Consider monitoring:

[edit] Other votes

[edit] To do

Edit Reload Watch


[edit] Perpetual problem articles

[edit] Discussions

Archive
Archives
Archive 1 Archive 2


[edit] Mala Zimetbaum and millions of Holocaust victims and survivors

How notable is this person Mala Zimetbaum, and does she deserve an article of her own? There were millions of Holocaust so should they all get their own articles now? Doesn't that trivialize the event? Seems that if someone gets to write a book or gets mentioned somewhere, they then "automatically" become notable. What do you think? IZAK 16:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Her story is known to many who've studied Holocaust resistance and her personal courage has been widely taught and quoted in Holocaust commemoration. Her individual entry (like significant dozens though unlike "millions of Holocaust victims/survivors") in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust was written by Prof. Israel Gutman, eminent Holocaust historian, Warsaw ghetto survivor, longtime board member of Yad Vashem, and the Encyclopedia's chief editor. The page has undergone some further editing since your posting and would benefit from more which I'll undertake myself, such as adding the EH reference. The page still has non-encyclopedic content, possibly based on what information was available to the participating editors. (For example, the full text of the Eichmann trial testimony is available by Web link so needn't be included in full.) I would contend that in the case of Mala Zimetbaum your charge of questionable notability is misplaced, even in light of the page's content at the time you posted this entry. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Judaism vs. Jewish history

I'm not sure what's the difference? Can anyone offer an explanation?

WikiProject Jewish history is part of WikiProject Jewish history, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardized and up-to-date resource for all articles related to Jewish history.

If you would like to help improve this and other articles related to the subject, also consider joining the project. All interested editors are welcome. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject Jewish history articles.
Project Jewish history To-do:
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

vs.

Judaism Portal
Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish history is part of WikiProject Judaism, a project to improve all articles related to Judaism. If you would like to help improve this and other articles related to the subject, consider joining the project. All interested editors are welcome. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject Judaism articles.
Project Judaism To-do:
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Yours truly, --Ludvikus 21:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

No response appears here, and I've now reposted this question, slightly expanded. Shall alert you in consequence. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of the Jews in Europe

History of the Jews in Europe has been added to the request for expansion list. At the moment it's got a very brief and incomplete history, and a list of individual country articles. Can anyone help make this the article it should be? Grunners (talk) 18:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Holocaust heroes - proposed list

As one of the editors on Oskar Schindler, I've noticed that the "See also" section there has become a virtual list of Holocaust heroes and is growing to an unwieldy size. Maybe it's time to create a "List of Holocaust Heroes" article (for want of a better term)? I'd be happy to do so, but first wanted to propose it here. JGHowes talk - 18:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

(further comment): I see there are already List of people who assisted Jews during the Holocaust, Righteous Among the Nations and List of Righteous Among the Nations by country. The problem is these aren't always shown as "See also" wlinks on some articles, which may also lack {{The Holocaust}} tags, thus the existence of these list articles is not always readily apparent to the casual reader. I'll do a Redirect page from "Holocaust rescuers" to List of people who assisted Jews during the Holocaust, matching the piped wikilink at {{The Holocaust}} JGHowes talk - 06:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry if I post this here in error, but I thought it might be of interest. I'd like to point out that our article about Albert Kesselring, among other things, asserts that "Kesselring attempted to save the Jews of Rome - as he had earlier saved those of Tunis - by employing them on the construction of fortifications", as if Kesselring was sort of Mr. Schindler in Field Marshall uniform, which left me speechless, so to speak (not quite: see here)... --Piero Montesacro (talk) 18:36, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shoah in Norway

I have started what is likely to become an extensive article on the Shoah in Norway. Any help is appreciated, whether it's adding material, source references, or copyediting. I have also created Jewish deportees from Norway during World War II, which includes a comprehensive list of those who were deported to concentration camps, where the overwhelming majority were murdered. There has been one attempt at blanking this page, as it's quite specific; but as far as I know it's the only place on the web where this list exists. --Leifern (talk) 03:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I have written several additional articles, most of them biographical, of notable individuals who were deported from Norway - among them Cissi Klein, Ruth Maier, Berthold Epstein, and Moritz Rabinowitz. Leo Eitinger has had an article for some time, but articles will also be written about Herman Sachnowitz, Kai Feinberg, and Samuel Steinmann. There will also likely be separate articles about the underground railroad to Sweden, though this will include all those who made their way across the border; and also the restitution case in the mid-1990s, and what was known as the Feldmann case. With time, the issue of legal culpability for crimes against Jews in Norway will also get its own article, but this is a highly contentious issue, to this day. One question for the group: what should be the right category for articles related to the Shoah in Norway? Should it be Shoah in Norway, or perhaps Holocaust in Norway, or more specifically Persecution of Jews World War II Norway? Any thoughts? --Leifern (talk) 15:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Postage stamps and postal history of Israel

For the Israel stamp collectors and lovers, there is no article yet for Postage stamps and postal history of Israel (part of Category:Postal history by country) that would have so many Jewish themes. Feel free to go ahead and start it. (See the other country's in Category:Postage stamps by country that have theirs.) Nothing for Israel on Category:Postage stamps by country neither on List of country articles containing postal sections nor on List of philatelic bureaus. (but just a teeny note on Israel at Compendium of postage stamp issuers (Io - Iz).) This is truly a great shame and pity because Israel, and before that when it was the British Mandate produced and continues to issue the most beautiful and extensive stamps by any country. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 11:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Jewish Gestapo" and "Rabbi" Abraham Gancwajch?

Seems that User Lysy (talk · contribs) has just added articles about Jewish Gestapo and a "Rabbi" Abraham Gancwajch who worked with.for the Shoner HaTzair? Is this legit? Sounds very odd and the sources seem POV antisemitic. I redirected Jewish Gestapo to Group 13. See also some of the "funny" discussions at Talk:Tykocin pogrom. IZAK (talk) 13:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Antisemitism in Britain & Ireland


Why is there virtually nothing written on Wikipedia about antisemitism in Great Britain or Ireland?? This is a major historical & cultural subject. Antisemitism around the world has sections for numerous countries, but not the UK or Ireland. The History of the Jews in England details the medieval persecution & expulsion of Jews, but does not cover the modern history of Antisemitism, or attitudes & portrayals of Jews during the 19th & 20th centuries. It seems like a huge subject has just been glossed over. 86.133.3.140 (talk) 01:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of the Jews in the United Arab Emirates

Am I the only person who has a problem with the title of this article?--Kimdime69 (talk) 19:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

What problem do you have with it? --MPerel 19:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
My problem is that this article is about antisemitism in UAE and about UAE-Israel relations, it's not about the "history of the Jews in the United Arab Emirates", anyway I'm not sure that a jewish community existed in this country.--Kimdime69 (talk) 19:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
This is probably a more suitable discussion to bring up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jewish history, since it's not about Judaism, the focus of this project. --MPerel 20:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello again : ) The article does seem to be more about modern policy toward Jews rather than about history of the Jews. --MPerel 21:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Correct, so the title is incorrect ;)--Kimdime69 (talk) 21:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Kimdime69: You are being too hasty. The Jews, as long-time residents and citizens of all areas in the Middle East have been part and parcel of all parts of the Arabian Peninsula as well. The information varies from location to location. The UAE leadership has carefully expunged any mention of its own country's Jewish history. As part of a series on the History of the Jews in the Arabian Peninsula the fact that the UAE dedicates so much effort and time to the question of Jews, makes it part of its own focus on Jewish history by default. Would you prefer that the article be called Antisemitism of the United Arab Emirates which it documents very well? IZAK (talk) 02:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template:WikiProject Jewish history

Can someone explain why the {{WikiProject Jewish history}} template is broken, and hopefully fix it. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 05:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Solomon Marcus Schiller-Szinessy

Hello Sir or Madam I am the great-great-great-grand-daughter of the above. By chance I came up a Site yesterday on english Wikipedia titled Solomon "Mayer" Schiller-Szinessy and was more than astonished and shocked! His name was SolomonMarcus not Mayer, this is nonsense.

I saw the link to the jewish enceclopedya, they have it wrong, I already sent them a protest- email. I uploaded a copy of his death certificate on the "Mayer" site. Nobody ever in my family had a name like Mayer, it makes no sense having 3 Last names. The last name is Schiller-Szinessy. I have all my ancestry up until today, so I know his name well.

Check in Trinity College in Cambridge, I also have more proof about that, other certificates, I would be glad to help out with it if needed. It really did upset me when I saw it!


Most of the sites I googled, so many of them, have the name right, please check on it.

Also, I am not an expert on Wikipedia, I don't know how to change all the links to it, I tried desperately last night.

I really owe it to my ancestor to get things right. Thank you!

Barbados66 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barbados66 (talk • contribs) 13:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Endangered image

Image:1938 Jews arrested during Kristallnacht line up for roll call at Buchenwald.jpg is tagged for deletion since it's an orphaned fair use image. Does anyone know if the image has ever been included in an article or whether a valid public domain claim can be made? It's from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum archives. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 07:39, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of Jews in Poland FAR

History of Jews in Poland has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

[edit] FAR nomination

Ku Klux Klan has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 23:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Szmul Zygielbojm

A question has come up concerning the Bundist leader Szmul Zygielbojm and whether his religion should be shown in the infobox. Please comment at Talk:Szmul Zygielbojm#Religion. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 23:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of the Jews in...

I don't think this heading is appropriate for the histories of the religion of Judaism of a particular country. Judaism is a religion, and it has even been suggested that Jews be properly called "Judaists," though this is not part of my proposal. The article History of the Jews in the United States, for instance, should be renamed to a simpler title like Judaism in the United States. You never see an article beginning with "History of the Roman Catholics in...," "History of the Protestants in...," "History of the Muslims in...," and the list goes on! Some of you may say Jews are an ethnic group, but even that doesn't support the supposed name of an article like "History of the Italians in the United States" or "History of the Caucasians in Africa." As far as I know, my ancestors were Italian Roman Catholics on my mother's side and Russian Jews on my father's side. Therefore, it can then be understood that I am half-Catholic and half-Jewish, or half-Italian and half-Russian. If we can see it this way, it will all make perfect sense. Thoughts? Marcus2 (talk) 19:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. The articles are not histories of the Jewish religion in this country or that, they are about the Jewish people. I think the same general rule applies with respect to Catholicism and Protestantism. An article about the history of the Catholic religion would be named History of Catholicism in X, but a history of Catholic people would be named History of Catholics in X or History of Catholic people in X.
I did a quick search for articles about "History of X in Y", but here are a few:
With the exception of the last article, which is misnamed in my opinion, the articles are titled consistently. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 21:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Here's an obscure one for ya: History of the Jews in China. I agree with Malik. There is a line between Jewish ethnicity and Jewish religion. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The two of you make very good points, and I'm very impressed. There are people with other faiths, such as Roman Catholicism, Islam, and atheism, who profess themselves as being Jewish. But maybe we should separate "History of the Jews" from "History of Judaism" and have two separate articles titled, for example, "History of the Jews in the United States" and "History of Judaism in the United States." One article can focus on Jews as ethnics, and the other one can focus on adherents of Judaism. Or we could incorporate both into one article for each country, having a title such as "History of Jews and Judaism in the United States." I hope these suggestions help. Marcus2 (talk) 14:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
What would be the major focus of the "History of Judaism in the United States"? Do the Jews of America have rituals that differ greatly than those in other countries? I guess one thing would be to comment on the spread of Judaism within the continent, but, again, that falls in line with the spread of Jewish ethnic groups. Has Judaism itself (and not Jewish ethnic stereotypes) influenced American culture? I'm sure you could have a section about people who "profess themselves as being Jewish", but it seems like this small bit of material should be added to the "religion" sub-heading of the American Jews article. Or at least the "Judaism" sub-heading in Religion in the United States. Anyway, the questions above apply to any country with Jews. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I find here a basic misunderstand as to the meaning Jew, or Jewish, as opposed to Frenchman or German. All imply a Nation of People to which each belongs. However, the former always implies a Religion as well. This is a source of great misunderstanding. --Ludvikus (talk) 22:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Jewish question

There are attempts to create a "WikiProject Jewish question", currently at WikiProject Jewish question in the wrong namespace. Maybe someone more knowledgeable on the subject and/or on WikiProject organization than me might lend a helping hand. Huon (talk) 13:04, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Dido. I wish to start such a project as a subcategory within Jewish history. The two-term expression "Jewish question" connotes many different, complex, and confusing things. I am prepared to put in substantial work into such I project (as I have already). Hoever, I've Posted the stub in the wrong place. Please help. --Ludvikus (talk) 13:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I moved the WikiProject page to Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish question. Huon (talk) 13:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
What is the purpose of the new WikiProject? There are currently two active Judaism-related WikiProjects: Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism and Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish history. Attempts to start additional Judaism-related WikiProjects have failed (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish culture, Wikipedia:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Progressive Judaism). Whatever articles might be under the purview of WikiProject Jewish question probably fall under the scope of this WikiProject, so why not include them here instead of creating a new WikiProject? — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 18:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article within scope of this project or not?

I'm not sure if this article is within the scope of this project or not. Please advise if it would be more appropriate at another project. I've been working on an article about a ship, USS Princess Matoika (ID-2290), a World War I-era U.S. Navy transport ship that was later purchased by the American Palestine Line. They briefly ran service from New York–Haifa on this ship—under the name of SS President Arthur—in the mid 1920s. The company officials were all reported as supporters of Zionism, and the ship itself flew the Zionist Flag (which, as far as I can determine, is essentially the Flag of Israel) while at sea. Not being Jewish, I'd like to make sure the article is WP:NPOV in regards to present-day names and/or terminology, since most of my sources were contemporary news accounts of the send-off for its maiden voyage and its other two voyages. The specific section of the article is entitled American Palestine Line. Thanks in advance. — Bellhalla (talk) 05:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Whether or not the article is within the scope of this WikiProject, I imagine that editors who belong to this WikiProject may be interested in helping. I would recommend that you post a similar message to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel, where a greater number of editors with relevant expertise are likely to see it. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 17:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
PS: Great article. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 17:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion and the kind words. :) — Bellhalla (talk) 20:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Exile after the destruction of the Second Temple

I need some help on the Yerida article. A Palestinian nationalist ideologue is tried to add historical disinformation to the article that denies the reality of the exile of Jews from the Holy Land after the Second Temple was destroyed, and also denies the reality to modern day Jews are related to those Jews from antiquity. I'd like to expand the section with real history cited to mainstream sources, but I don't know enough about Jewish history to be able to do it justice. Would anybody volunteer to add just a short, 1 paragraph summary here? Thanks in advance. --GHcool (talk) 18:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Book Categories

Two brand new categories are available and waiting to be populated with articles:

I have created hundreds of new categories, but I've never previously made a point of making an announcement. However, it struck me as hugely ironic and quite astonishing that there were no categories for books about the "people of the book" (other than Holocaust books). So I hope, fellow editors, that you will make good use of these! Cgingold (talk) 22:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spotlight

Spotlight
An article covered by this WikiProject, Kristallnacht, is currently under the Spotlight. If you wish to help, please join the editors in #wikipedia-spotlight on the freenode IRC network where the project is coordinated. (See the IRC tutorial for help with IRC)

...... Dendodge .. TalkHelp 16:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Project Scope: Jewish History vs. Judaism

Hello, WProjectmates! I'm asking for guidance on policy and praxis: I continually encounter [WP talk] pages tagged with templates for the Judaism WikiProject for mainspace pages that clearly have little or nothing to do with Judaism (the religion) but a great deal to do with Jewish history. So what's the protocol for substituting the Jewish History WikiProject template there, for the sake of getting these pages on the appropriate "List of"... for further action?! NB: a similar question I posted on this very page nearly two (!) years ago has had no response and for all I know is still a current problem. Kindly provide illumination if there's something here I'm failing to understand. I respect [the] projects in theory and practice, and decline to take singlehanded action if perhaps I'm out of line with some consensus as yet unknown to me.-- Thank you, Deborahjay (talk) 11:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Be bold and put the project tag on the talk page if you think it's warranted. I'd be a little less bold about removing the Project Judaism tag, though. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 17:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I see; both points are well taken. Regarding possible action on the latter - I would want to be more active and post a head's-up message for the sake of getting the tagging-for-project evaluated for its appropriateness and further action. Which would be more effective:
Thanks, -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
The best advice I can give you is, before you remove any project tags, post some kind of a query at the project page. Bear in mind that a common response is that the more eyes on a page the better. Also, that project seems to me to be considerably more active than this one. By the way, which pages did you have in mind? --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 21:29, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Steven, thanks for your interest. I'd like this project to be suitably active in its own scope and am evaluating options for upping my own participation. As for samples of what I've encountered (tagged for the Judaism WikiProject but not the Jewish History WikiProject): how about Shmuel Katz and Habima Theatre? -- Deborahjay (talk) 18:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I have to agree in both cases. Katz should also probably be listed at WP:WikiProject Biography and Habima Theatre looks like it belongs under WP:WikiProject Theatre. Neither of those articles looks like it has anything to do with religion. You might benefit from a little information as to how articles come to be associated with projects. Usually what happens is someone makes a request for a bot to add a project tag to all the pages in a certain category. depending on how carefully thought out the request is, this can result in pages that have little or nothing to do with a topic being listed at the project associated with that topic. This has, from time to time, caused a certain amount of controversy. Anyway, I agree with the changes in project tagging that you're suggesting. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 18:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disabilities and emancipation

I came upon the articles Disabilities (Jewish) and Jewish emancipation. Both are in a sorry state. The first is a stub, containing little content but a table of dates for emancipation copied from the second article. There is no information whatsoever on the nature of the disabilities. Even worse, the dates for emancipation are contradictory: Jewish emancipation states that emancipation in Germany was achieved in 1848, but the table and that article's map give 1971. Both dates are unsourced. The map seems highly unreliable, for example giving 1890 for the United Kingdom, which is almost certainly false (the relevant articles give the admission of the first Jew to Parliament in 1858 as the date of full legal emancipation). I'll try to improve the disabilities article from "should be deleted" to "good stub", but I'm no expert and wouldn't even know where to look for sources. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Huon (talk) 21:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hungarian Gold Train

Hi. I created the article Hungarian Gold Train a while back and I see there hasn't yet been assessment by this project. This article likely can benefit from improvement by those from this project who probably know more about the topic than I do. --Oakshade (talk) 08:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Archives of old messages

I just archived messages from 2006 and 2007. They can be found in Archive 1 and Archive 2 respectively. Links to the Talk page archives can be found at the top of this Discussion section. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 19:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Polish-Jewish history

I'd like to invite interested editors to monitor the following articles:

Recent edits to these articles appear to rationalize 20th century Polish antisemitism, minimize it, or deny its existence altogether. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 20:11, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Return to Zion / Gathering of Israel

Two OR based articles now exist. Legit subject, needs major work. --Shuki (talk) 21:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photo needing fair use rationales

Hi, this photo has recently been determined to be non-free. It is used in many articles, so it may need to be removed from some, and a fair use rationale needs to be written for articles in which it satisfies WP:NFCC. Thanks for your help, Mangostar (talk) 00:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)