Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/March 2007

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Japan To-do: edit purge Improve ASIMO Burakumin and Buraku Liberation League Takako Doi Chikamatsu Monzaemon Education in Japan Japanese architecture Japanese art Japanese robotics List of Emperors of Japan (transl. from ja) Emperor Yozei of Japan List of Japanese artists Namioka, Aomori Nihonjinron Sadako Ogata Ōishi Yoshio Okinawa (stub), Ryukyu Islands Politics of Japan Yagyu Shinkage-ryu Center Shiken (大学入試センター試験) More... Review First Sino-Japanese War Hinduism in Japan Inland Sea Kigo Narihira Santosen Temple Sazae-san Stroke order Heizo Takenaka Giovanni Battista Sidotti Requests See Requested articles Listed for deletion See this page, this page, and this page for lists. Grammar corrections Gaijin Takefuji Need images Every prefecture, see Subdivisions of Japan Sendai - Add demographic images More... Translate from Japanese Wikipedia Iemoto (家元) Blue Ribbon Award (Film) (ブルーリボン賞 (映画)) Gesaku (ja:戯作) More... Transliterations missing for Military ranks and insignia of the Japan Self-Defense Forces Wikify Ibaraki University Ikawa, Shizuoka Ima, Ai ni Yukimasu Japanese sculpture Mori Goro Sangaria (soft drink) Shaken Takefuji Vote: Watch this list — Edit this list

WikiProject proposed reform

This won't have a huge impact on this project directly, but several sub-projects will likely become task forces of this one rather than separate projects. You can read more here. Just wanted to give you a heads up on what's happening elsewhere in the WikiWorld. (^_^) ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 22:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I wonder how big this is going to be. Will the anime/manga wikiproject become a taskforce?MightyAtom 04:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems big enough, focused enough, and active enough to stay separate, as is the trains project. The reforms seem to be geared more towards things without critical mass, like the owarai project or that one about Morning Musume. As an aside, I believe that the Columbia's bibliography project should be protected from these changes. Maybe it should just be tagged as historical. It's been mentioned in New York Times articles, etc. as an example of how Wikipedia has been used in higher education classes. Dekimasuが^? 07:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense. The Japanese mythology project would definitely work better as a task force also.MightyAtom 01:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Itaden clan

I do not read Japanese, but I wanted to know if http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDATEN%E7%BF%94 has anything to do with Itaden clan, which I recently wikified. Thanks Guroadrunner 00:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope. The Japanese article is about a manga and anime series. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 01:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I edited the article further and added some {{cn}} templates. I'm not convinced it's important, or even real. The article ja:忍者#主な流派 lists over 40 schools, but only 5 have articles (the rest are red links). I don't see Idaten on the list. Granted, the article in English labels them "small." Does anyone have any information on them? Fg2 01:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

It's possible someone is using information from the series linked above and trying to pass it off as real. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Gigas K's Denki

Gigas K's Denki can use an editor's touch. Fg2 07:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I touched it. It's a little easier to read now, though there is still a large amount of information in the Japanese article which isn't in the English one. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 18:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, nice work. I seldom have enough energy to translate whole articles, so I sympathize with the person who translated this one. Fg2 01:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

need comment in CFD

Please see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 3#Category:Fusekis and Category:Josekis and suggest the proper plural forms of these words. Thanks, — coelacan — 19:52, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Template

I noticed something that I can't explain, and thought I'd throw it out here in case anyone knows what's going on. When I went to check the what links here for Sendai, it looks like every talk page which includes the project templates ({{WPJ}}) is listed as linking to Sendai. Other cities I checked (Osaka, Fukuoka, Fukoka, Shizuoka, Shizuoka) don't seem to have that issue, and, nothing I see in the WPJ template has any links to Sendai. So, I'm a little confused. Any thoughts? Neier 00:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Sendai is linked from Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/ToDo, which is transcluded onto {{WPJ}} via {{WikiProject Japan/to do}}. --Kusunose 04:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Neier 04:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Importance scale

I have been looking at the articles ranked by importance, and it seems a bit wonky. It looks like people are ranking things by their personal likes/dis-likes, rather than an honest assesment. Does Chiba, Chiba really deserve to be Top Importance? Or Kitakyushu? And why is Asian Kung-fu Generation ranked higher than Morning Musume? Does anything feel that these categorizations are important enough to do a house cleaning on, maybe setting some more authoritive guidelines, or just leave it higgledy-piggledy? MightyAtom 04:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Importance is where the Top Importance articles have been debated. It is old, and there may be some recent additions which did not go through this page; but, all designated cities are listed there. AFAIK, there is no concensus about how to fill in the other rankings, besides the guidance given on the main project page. I think that setting rigid guidelines would be counterproductive, as even the Top Importance discussions have more or less died out. Neier 04:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The guidelines are purposely written with some leeway in them, and have been written in a simple manner so as to (hopefully) avoid any real confusion. All of the articles I've tagged with whatever level of importance have been tagged using the guidelines on the project page. If someone disagrees with how I've tagged an article, feel free to bring it up on that article's talk page or on my talk page. I've changed my mind before. (^_^) ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 07:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Copyediting request

An editor tagged the article Tottori University of Environmental Studies with a request for copyediting. Help is welcome. Fg2 06:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Cleaned it up a little, added an infobox, and translated a wee bit. There's more that could be translated, I think, but I don't have the skills. BilabialBoxing 09:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Fg2 09:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. I tagged that article. ObtuseAngle 18:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Festival Gate

Is Festival Gate now closed? I did some web research on it, and some sites suggested it had closed, but maybe it is better for me to ask you Japanese-speakers, who might get better sources than me about the park. Thanks in advance, --Montchav 09:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Didn't know it was called Festival Gate, but that area is dominated by a place called Spa World, which is a massive sento complex. The roller coaster is still going, and I was just there the other day.

A little info:

http://www.japan-guide.com/forum/quereadisplay.html?0+13555

MightyAtom 09:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I linked it to the Japanese Wikipedia and vice versa. ja says that initially the place was run by a third-sector company, which went bankrupt and has been dissolved. Limited facilities remain open. See ja:フェスティバルゲート#倒産後 and ja:フェスティバルゲート#現在. Fg2 10:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

According to the article, Spa World and Festival Gate are run by different organizations. Spa World was run by a company, and Festival Gate by a third-sector company. Just for your information. --Aphaia 06:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Festival Gate is still partially open. Spa World is a thriving business. Dekimasuよ! 09:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

GONTITI

I've created an article about the group Gontiti but I need help fleshing it out. Can anyone add more content to the article? I'm having trouble finding sources. Thanks! ObtuseAngle 18:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Prince Takechi

An editor has requested cleanup of the new article Prince Takechi. Fg2 07:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Phew. Cleaned it up a bit, translated some of the introductory paragraph from the Japanese article. There's a lot more information waiting to be translated. It looks like this whole area of Japanese history/royalty has a lot of potential to be fleshed out, if there's anyone interested in this sort of thing. BilabialBoxing 09:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Funnily enough I've been working on the articles for some of his half brothers and sisters in the last few days over at Prince Otsu and Princess Oku, as they relate to Ise Shrine and Saio, which I've been trying to built up. This whole area of Japanese history is fascinating, and if anyone can add to it, even via the Japanese articles, it would be much appreciaited. Ka-ru 14:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Speak Japanese?

Vita Craft cookware is cookware made in the U.S. but mostly sold in Japan. In Japan the company is established and is selling RFIQin, which has been featured on the Japanese nation-wide news programs multiple times. But, because the company, Vita Craft Japan, is based in Japan, I have been unsuccessful in finding primary criterion beacuse I do not speak Japanese (yet). Please, if anyone speaks Japanese, please find a good reference/source, like a profile of the business, or a description of the company in a newspaper or something and put it in the Vita Craft Japan article before it gets deleted. Thanks very much.-ChristopherMannMcKay 21:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I did some quick looking and didn't find much outside of their official website and a product recall from the Japanese government (which I added to the article). I found a lot of sites carrying their products, but outside of that, they weren't listed on any news sites as far as I could tell. They may not be notable enough. The Japanese Wikipedia doesn't even have an article on them. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 22:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

FA Nomination

Guys, the Japan article is up for FA nomination again. Your views would be most welcome. John Smith's 00:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't look very likely to pass, based on the discussion to this point. Have you considered going through a good article review here before trying for featured article status? The article is currently listed as B-class. Dekimasuよ! 00:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The article is currently listed as B-class because no one has re-graded it. I didn't see the point in having it regraded and then make an FA nomination, as the problems listed previously were citations (now dealt with). The current objections are that;

a) there is too much history

b) there is too little history (of a certain kind)

I don't see those as being especially credible right now for obvious reasons. John Smith's 01:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Help about Content Dispute arguments made in Japanese.

It seemed the Japanese Wiki dispute about whether Detective Conan has plagiarized some other work has spread to the English Wikipedia; See Talk:Case Closed#Vandalism?. The main issue is, this, and other several talk threads surrounding this issue (mainly on User talk:1523) are mainly in Japanese, hence me, as a non-Japanese editor, cannot fully participate in the dispute (I plan to have a RfC on this issue.). I would like some J/E translations of the discussions here, thanks!--Samuel Curtis^{Shinichian-Hirokian}-- _{TALK·CONTRIBS} 15:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:ANIME may be a more appropriate place for this request as that article falls under that project. There are many Japanese-speakers there as well. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Lack of images

Perhaps some of you have already noticed this, but many of the history articles have no pictures at all. Could you please find and distibute pictures so that the articles are more visually intresting? Thanks! Ahudson 17:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to help out with this yourself, as well. We're all working together on this. (^_^) ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Monshō

Hello all, I've been recently converting monshō, the city symbols seen on certain municipality pages, to svg format using images found on the municipalities' websites (as opposed to Wikipedia). I've come to realize that oftentimes there are two possible images to use. The first is found on the page designated (usually) for city symbols (including tree, flower, bird, etc.). The monshō found here is usually the better quality one, but is oftentimes filled in black. The other is the monshō found on the city's main page, usually in the top-left corner. This one is often colored differently (see the page for Miyako, Iwate for an example of this; the latter example is at the top while the former is further down). Very rarely is a monshō's color explicitly stated (the pdf file found on the page for Katagami, Akita lists exact colors which I think take precedence over the colors found in the monshō of the top-left corner, which are somewhat different. Which would you recommend creating the images in: all black, which gives consistency to the articles, or colored according to the top-left corner monshō, which would give some variation to the articles? It should be noted that some sites do not have colored monshō anywhere on their web pages. And if both are colored, which should take precedence? The monshō on the "symbols" pages or the monshō in the top-left corner (oftentimes when both are colored, the monshō on the "symbols" pages are more garish in their coloring)? With the answers, I hope to start uploading what I have in the summer. I don't want to start uploading them now because there's no rush and it puts some psychological pressure on one when you feel compelled to keep uploading new images. Thanks for the help!

-Nameneko 20:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that if the official websites use color, then by all means include color. If not, then just black is fine. I get the sense that some municipalities care more about coloring their symbols than others, and that would be reflected in their wikipedia entries this way. As for the different color schemes, I suppose that the monsho on the "symbols page", being specifically about symbols, would have precedence over the header or main page monsho. BilabialBoxing 01:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

A slight problem has arisen in the process. It appears that some municipalities use both the monshō and what's called a "symbol mark" or "communication mark". The latter seems to appear on the tops of the municipalities' sites, but I don't really know the difference between the two. See this link to see how drastic the difference can be between the two. For now I'm only going to trace the monshō and when I upload them I'm planning on naming them "Emblem of [Munic.], [Pref.]" as opposed to "Symbol of [Munic.], [Pref.]." How does that sound?

-Nameneko 09:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Taking a look at emblem, perhaps the word is a bit different than we mean to mean. Or maybe not. Is there any reason not to just use "symbol"? Do enough municipalities have "symbol marks" to justify using an entirely different word for their proper monshō? BilabialBoxing 11:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I see. Well I'm only going to be tracing the monshō and not the "symbol marks". In the process, though, I've found a problem. The Tokyo page uses one of these "symbol marks" while other prefecture pages appear to use their monshō (look here to see what I mean. The top is Tokyo's monshō whereas the bottom is the symbol mark. The monshō seems to be the one that is always used on the prefectural flag. Should I change this?

-Nameneko 01:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Japanese video games- part of this project?

Hi. Not a member, but was curious for your thoughts - a user was going about placing WP:JAPAN banners on some computer/video game articles I watch. When is this appropriate?

Personally, I'd assume that there should be some major connection to Japan to be in this project. Something like Nintendo or Hiroshi Yamauchi? Sure, they're pretty major. Same with something like Pokemon or Dragon Quest, both of which have massively affected Japanese culture to my knowledge. But random video games that happen to be made in Japan probably shouldn't be here, any more than movies produced in Hollywood should be part of WikiProject California. Then again, maybe I'm off base, so feel free to enlighten me here. SnowFire 01:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:JAPAN covers any topic related to Japan, including popular culture (which includes video games). Usually, however, WP:CVG handles most of them. There's not a problem placing the project tag on them, though, IMHO. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand that, but putting in anything vaguely related to a topic can lead to clutter on talk pages. Is there any service WikiProject Japan offers that can help an article on a random game that just happened to be made in Japan, when many games are often made for a worldwide audience? Undoubtedly, for some games this will be appropriate (Japan-only games, games majorly in Japanese culture, very Japan-influenced games), but I'd think that wouldn't be true of all of them. I suppose this ties in somewhat with the complaints of project clutter on Wikipedia:WikiProject reform. SnowFire 19:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

If that's a concern, there's always Template:WikiProjectBanners. Dekimasuよ! 13:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Or for that matter, you could use the Small option. - Exitmoose 06:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Clueless

I moved "Oishi Yoshio" to Ōishi Yoshio, and discovered that ten thousand talk pages link to the article under the old title. Can't figure out why, but I'd guess that fixing one link somewhere would make ten thousand links direct. (They're not double redirects, so they don't really have to be fixed, but if it's easy, why not.)

The talk pages share the WikiProject Japan template, but I don't see any link from there to Oishi Yoshio, nor from the photograph of the torii to the article. The WikiProject ToDo list is transcluded, and I updated the link there, but that didn't fix the ten thousand redirects. Does anyone know why all these talk pages link to Oishi Yoshi?

Fg2 04:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I have modified a redirect from Oishi Kuranosuke. It was previously redirecting to Oishi Yoshio, now replaced with Ōishi Yoshio. I don't know hot to check the number of incoming links, please take a look and see what has possibly changed. --OhMyDeer 04:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that took care of a few. The way to check is to click "What links here." It's in the toolbox below the Go and Search buttons. I get the feeling I'm missing something obvious... Fg2 05:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I saw something similar a few weeks ago. In my case, it was a to-do template that is linked/transcluded from the WikiProject Japan talk header. Neier 05:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I wish I had asked you first -- it took me half an hour to get that far. But unless it's in there twice, or transcluded inside transcluded, I can't figure it out. Fg2 05:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I spent longer than that trying to figure it out. Even after the source (to-do list) was explained to me, I still don't see what sort of wikimagic is involved; because afaict, the to-do list is not included on the talk-pages themselves. Neier 06:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Yūtoku Inari Shrine

The article Yūtoku Inari Shrine needs some serious TLC. As it is, it's copyvio from the JET site listed as reference, and the JET site raises some serious doubts. For instance, there's talk of a Manko Hime (you're kidding, right?) and the Princess Hime, to point out just the most blaring flaws. Can anyone work on the article? I find myself severely short on (read: without) wiki-time lately. TomorrowTime 22:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Believe it or not... See the sentence 「貞享4年（1687年）肥前鹿島藩主鍋島直朝公の夫人花山院萬子媛が、朝廷の勅願所であった稲荷大神の御分霊を勧請された稲荷神社で、衣食住の守護神として国民の間に篤く信仰されております。」 at the shrine's own page. I've linked to the Japanese Wikipedia as well as the shrine's site. Fg2 01:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC) (I added boldface)

Dear lord. I thought that was a prank somebody pulled on an overzealous editor of the JET site being perpetuated here :) That's the perfect Bond girl name if they make another Japan related JB movie... Thanks for taking the time to look into this. TomorrowTime 01:30, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Of course, the shrine's sentence doesn't indicate pronunciation... Fg2 21:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

RFC/discussion of article National Union of General Workers

A request for comments has been filed about the use of anonymous sources in reliable publications. The RFC can be found by the article's name in this list, and the actual discussion can be found on Talk:National_Union_of_General_Workers#Request_for_Comment_-_Use_of_anonymous_sources_in_reliable_publications in case you wish to participate. Thank you for your contributions. Sparkzilla 07:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Help needed with Japanese episode template

An edit request has been made to place <span class="t_nihongo_kanji" lang="ja"> into Template:Japanese episode list. This isn't your template but I need to ask for comments from editors familiar with Japanese. Is this an appropriate change? The discussion thread is here. CMummert · talk 12:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

National highways of Japan

So, National highways of Japan. The article is basically just a description of the system and a list of highways, but I think the description of the system is wrong. I don't see anything about Class 1 and Class 2 highways on the Japanese wikipedia page. It looks like maybe 50 years ago there was a class system, but in 1965 all the national highways were deemed 一般国道, "general highways", and the class system was erased. I'd change this all myself, but I can't really translate for shit and the entire basis of this article is the class system which means I'd have to sort of start from scratch. Could someone who can read Japanese better than me verify that I'm not stupid/crazy? BilabialBoxing 05:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Japan: Featured article candidate

The article Japan has been double-nominated for featured-article status. Its March 10 nomination was closed and the article not promoted, but it was renominated on the same day and many objections have been remedied. Please visit Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Japan and express your views on this article. Fg2 04:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I visited the page to look at the discussion, and I'd like to make one small comment. While expressing our views is okay, I really feel that the candidacy would have greater legitimacy if people who are highly involved in WikiProject Japan don't vote on the article. It's great to address the concerns raised there by other editors. I'd just like to see the article promoted or rejected by uninvolved third parties. Dekimasuよ! 04:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand your reasoning. I had already copied my comment to Wikipedia talk:Japan-related topics notice board, so if you want to copy yours there too, please feel free. Fg2 04:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Greetings. I don't feel like I'm qualified for touching one bit of anything there (not even it's talk page), so allow me dropping a line in here:

• In the Economy section, where the para starts with: "Japan is home to the world's largest bank,[51] the Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group,[52], which has roughly US$1.7 trillion in assets;[51] "

The Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group isn't the largest. The source mentioned it as being fourth, but obsolete anyway. This[1] might help updating. Apparently the US$1.7 T is also outdated, taken from the Washington Post article in July 2004.

• The same para, last sentece: "It is also home to some of the largest financial services companies, business groups and banks. For instance several large keiretsus (business groups) and multinational companies such as Sony, Sumitomo, Mitsubishi and Toyota own billion- and trillion-dollar operating banks, investment groups and/or financial services such as Sumitomo Bank, Fuji Bank, Mitsubishi Bank, Toyota Financial Services and Sony Financial Holdings."

Sumitomo and Fuji banks have gone through mergers too. The Sumitomo name is still alive as the SMBC but for Fuji, it's gone (it has become part of Mizuho.) One may want to eliminate the banking part as it overlaps with the first sentence in the paragraph, leaving Sony and Toyota related stuff in.

Guess these are no show stoppers, but hopefully some one of you want to do the rework for the sake of updatedness. --OhMyDeer 12:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)