Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/February 2007

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Japan To-do: edit purge Improve ASIMO Burakumin and Buraku Liberation League Takako Doi Chikamatsu Monzaemon Education in Japan Japanese architecture Japanese art Japanese robotics List of Emperors of Japan (transl. from ja) Emperor Yozei of Japan List of Japanese artists Namioka, Aomori Nihonjinron Sadako Ogata Ōishi Yoshio Okinawa (stub), Ryukyu Islands Politics of Japan Yagyu Shinkage-ryu Center Shiken (大学入試センター試験) More... Review First Sino-Japanese War Hinduism in Japan Inland Sea Kigo Narihira Santosen Temple Sazae-san Stroke order Heizo Takenaka Giovanni Battista Sidotti Requests See Requested articles Listed for deletion See this page, this page, and this page for lists. Grammar corrections Gaijin Takefuji Need images Every prefecture, see Subdivisions of Japan Sendai - Add demographic images More... Translate from Japanese Wikipedia Iemoto (家元) Blue Ribbon Award (Film) (ブルーリボン賞 (映画)) Gesaku (ja:戯作) More... Transliterations missing for Military ranks and insignia of the Japan Self-Defense Forces Wikify Ibaraki University Ikawa, Shizuoka Ima, Ai ni Yukimasu Japanese sculpture Mori Goro Sangaria (soft drink) Shaken Takefuji Vote: Watch this list — Edit this list

Contents 1 Islands vs towns 2 Learning kanji 3 Picture of the Year contest on Commons 4 Princess Kako of Akishino 5 Kirill Laxman and Daikokuya Kōdayū 6 Romanization of names 7 Possible hoax biographies 8 Japanese help needed 9 The Great Wave 10 Kobe Peer Review 11 Some Japanese sources 12 National Archives of Japan Digital Gallery - Public Domain? 13 Budō vs. Japanese martial arts 14 Possible hoax? 15 Mon 16 Tokaido Road 17 Edit flag of Japan to appear with border? 18 Photograph appropriate for article?

Islands vs towns

So currently there's an article called Yonaguni covering 与那国島 and another called Yonaguni, Okinawa covering 与那国町. Only problem is, the geographical and administrative entities are 100% coterminous, and unsurprisingly the article content is also pretty redundant. One of them has got to go -- but which one? Keep Yonaguni, because it's shorter and more obvious? Or keep Yonaguni, Okinawa, for consistency? Jpatokal 03:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, we should have an article on the municipality at Yonaguni, Okinawa. Islands can have separate articles, but there doesn't seem to be a great need for one in this case, and I'd suggest redirecting Yonaguni to the city article. If we were to keep an article on the island, its title should include the word "island."

There are a fair number of articles whose titles start with "Yonaguni" and a disambiguation page might be worthwhile. Fg2 04:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Learning kanji

The article Learning kanji, in an even somewhat worse form than it's in now, survived an AfD discussion as no consensus in November. It's a bad title, a spam magnet, and isn't really concerned with Japanese education - except independent learning by foreigners. I proposed quite a while back that relevant information in the article be merged and redirected into Kyōiku kanji, and that the list information on that article then be split into a new List of kyōiku kanji. I haven't had any feedback. Can you give me some, either here or at Talk:Learning kanji? Dekimasu 16:01, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Picture of the Year contest on Commons

Many editors of the English Wikipedia have voted in the first round of the contest for Picture of the Year on Wikimedia Commons. In contrast, very few Japanese editors have voted. Does anyone know which pages on the Japanese Wikipedia contain the announcements of the contest, and if those pages get a lot of traffic? Fg2 07:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't. Looking around, I can't find anywhere where the announcement is listed on the JA wiki. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. It would be a shame if the Japanese Wikipedia community didn't know about it. I put it on the Community Portal, the last line of 最近のウィキペディア. (It's in the Community Portal in English.) It might be helpful for someone to put it in some more-visible places too. Fg2 20:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Princess Kako of Akishino

Hello, 125.60.241.33 (talk • contribs) has made recent edits to this article and a couple of others. The IP's first two edits are suspect and so is the last (since when was there a February 29 in 1993?). There are only 6 edits to check so could someone fact-check the contributions? Thanks! --WikiSlasher 06:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any sources, but I do know that no self-respecting Japanese 6th grader would be a fan of Puffy AmiYumi! MightyAtom 07:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

All of that user's edits have been vandalism. The IP should be blocked. In any case, added a source for birthdate. -- Exitmoose 07:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Kirill Laxman and Daikokuya Kōdayū

Hi, I need help by English speakers on Kirill Laxman as I have some difficulties in writing. Also need help on Daikokuya Kōdayū(ja:大黒屋光太夫).--Orcano 08:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I have cleaned up the language on the Laxman article - thank you for your extensive efforts. I may take a look at translating the Daikokuya article when I get a chance. Cheers. LordAmeth 10:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the great help. It would have more readers enjoy the article.--Orcano 20:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Romanization of names

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find it. So here's the question again: I'm currently editing an article for a japanese 'dorama' (Stand Up!!), and I noticed that in the initial version, the character names were 'internationalized', i.e. no additional vowels to indicate macrons. Example: "Shohei" instead of "Shouhei". The series has not (yet) been licensed (or translated) into english. Now I want to go ahead and change all the names to either the correct form with macrons (-> Shōhei, the form I prefer) or at the very least to the correct romanization (Shouhei). Good? Bad? --Darkstar 14:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Standard romanization is applicable here. So "Shōhei" would be the way to romanize that. I fixed the formatting and romanization of the episode title section. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 16:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Possible hoax biographies

Miya of the Japanese Wikipedia has recently pointed out that two articles on historical Japanese people, Kinoaki Matsuo and Kenosuke Sato, may be hoaxes. Both articles were written by IP editors with close-enough IP ranges to suggest that they were written either by the same person, or people in the same organization. Both articles are also entirely unreferenced. Having done a Google search, this page, from TIME comes up, suggesting that a writer named "Kinoaki Matsuo" lived and wrote about Japan's involvement in the war. (However, it does not serve as a source for any of the other information in the Wikipedia article.) "Kenosuke Sato", on the other hand, turns up countless sites that have obviously used Wikipedia's data in some way (either through direct mirroring or through semantic analysis), but not really any reliable sources that suggest that such a man existed. If anybody has any reliable sources about these two subjects, please add them to the article; if not, we may need to consider whether one or both of these articles are hoaxes. Cheers, Tangotango (talk) 14:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

N yotarou told me that "Kenosuke Sato" may be really 佐藤剣之助 (Kennosuke Sato), that is pronounced as "Ken-no-su-ke Sa-to"; and Kinoaki Matsuo may be "松尾樹明", the author of 『三国同盟と日米戦』.Sorry for bothering you.--miya 02:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

"松尾樹明" can be found through NDL-OPAC, which shows his name Ju-myo-u printed in kana.--Excavator 14:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC) (correcting my typo, sorry --Excavator 01:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC))

The NDL-OPAC says his name is Matsuo Jumyo, agreed. Another interesting point is this result suggests he has another name as writer "Orise Bonju". This author has 267 google result per se and titled himself as "doctor of writing"; he teachs in some local writing classes, though I am not sure if it is a Wikipedia-worthy notability. --Aphaia 11:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Japanese help needed

I currently have content dispute with User:1523 on a writer's plagiarism claim against Case Closed (Case_Closed#Plagiarism_Claim, Picasso-kun no tantei note#Note). His claims to WP:V are all in Japanese, and I don't know any of it. I wanted some help in clearing up this issue, thanks!--Samuel Curtis^{Shinichian-Hirokian}-- _{TALK·CONTRIBS} 15:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I only gave the cited links a quick glance, but this plagiarism claim appears legitimate. CES 22:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The Great Wave

I recently created a stub for Hokusai's The Great Wave off Kanagawa, but there have been a few concerns about it. First, despite how famous the image is, it doesn't seem to have a particularly standard name in English. I settled on The Great Wave off Kanagawa, but that doesn't seem more common than things like Beneath the Great Wave off Kanagawa, The Great Wave AT Kanagawa, or some combination. I redirected a bunch of those alternate titles to the article, but the title I chose doesn't seem any better or worse than the others. Perhaps simple The Great Wave or the Japanese title will do- at any rate, someone should add the Japanese characters into the article; it's beyond my capabilities.

Second, someone seems to have written an article about the image at Commons, here: [1]. It may be copyvio, but I can't tell. Perhaps some of it can be incorporated into the article over here, though I didn't like how it was written assuming the audience would be Westerners. Perhaps more knowledgeable editors can take care of this.--Cúchullain ^t/c 23:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Kobe Peer Review

The Kobe article has gone through a load of changes and improvements in the last month, enough that I think "Start" class is no longer an appropriate rating. It'd be most helpful if someone could pop over there and take a look at the article, perhaps give a new rating, and jot down some things that need improvement. -- Exitmoose 03:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the assessment, and made some comments on the talk pages. Hopefully others will review the article and make some comments there as well. More eyes are always good. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 06:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I've been wondering what to work on to bring the article up to GA-Status, and your suggestions will certainly help. -- Exitmoose 07:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Some Japanese sources

There have recently been a few additions to the article X Japan, regarding a potential reunion of that band. All the sources presented are in Japanese and the contributing editor has previously added content either without, or with unreliable and at times unrelated sources - hence my skepticism. It would be great if anyone with the sufficient language skills could look into it. Do the sources presented really back up the contents of this section and on a more general note, can they be considered reliable sources? - Cyrus XIII 23:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

TOSHI, one of ex-member of X Japan made a positive comment on their potential reunion on his official website (Japanese), dated on 2007-02-10. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aphaia (talk • contribs) 07:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

Which comment would that be? The page from that site, which was added to the X Japan article to support the reunion story has since vanished. - Cyrus XIII 16:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

National Archives of Japan Digital Gallery - Public Domain?

I've recently come across a host of beautiful maps and other images I'd like to add to the Wikimedia Commons on the National Archives of Japan site, but I want to make sure the images are public domain before I do so. Does anyone know if this is the case? It'd be a real shame if some of these images stayed locked up in a vault. -- Exitmoose 06:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Check this page, which discusses publishing and broadcasting. It might be very easy to get permission, if this applies. Fg2 07:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Budō vs. Japanese martial arts

The article Budō, which has been in existence for a long time, used to be the main article to point links for the "Japanese martial arts". When pointing a link there today, I noticed that it now links a new Japanese martial arts article in its lead. That article was created in November but is already much more thorough than Budō (which is also the target of the Bujutsu redirect). I have the feeling this is a content fork, but I have no deep experience with or understanding of the Japanese martial arts. Should these really be separate articles? Dekimasuが... 16:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

They really should be the same articles since they are the same thing. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 18:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have left merge tags on the pages and started a thread at Talk:Japanese martial arts#Merge suggestion. My suggestion was to move Budo into Japanese martial arts, since that seems a more accessible title. Dekimasuが... 10:44, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Possible hoax?

See Talk:Ueno, Kumamoto. Fg2 10:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Definitely a hoax. We can delete it after the prod expires. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 16:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Mon

It has been proposed that Suzakumon Gate, which literally means "Suzaku gate gate", be renamed. But are we to move it to Suzaku Gate, according to "use English", or to Suzakumon, according to "use the most common name/term"? Please comment on the talk page of that article (or we can start the discussion here, if people deem it more appropriate). Thank you. LordAmeth 19:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Rashomon Gate was just renamed Rashōmon. It would be nice to have both articles follow the same pattern. (I'd prefer to see Rashomon at Rajōmon.) Fg2 20:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree since that's the pronunciation given on the Japanese article. Let's discuss it over here. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 20:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It's already been moved to Suzakumon. Fg2 20:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was bold and moved it based on the Rashōmon discussion. The link to the Rashōmon is on Talk:Suzakumon. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 20:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

For comparison, see Dongdaemun and Namdaemun. Fg2 20:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I just posted this message in Talk:Suzakumon. These are basically "symbolic gates", similar to Sakuradamon (ja:桜田門, Sakuradamon^?) and Hanzōmon (ja:半蔵門, Hanzōmon^?), whose names (including the Mon (門, Mon^?)) have become well known in Japanese and English. So the Mon (門, Mon^?)) should NOT be dropped, but the English word "gate" is optional.--Endroit 21:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

We should make articles for those two here on the English Wikipedia. (^_^) ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I have a photo of Sakuradamon at Edo Castle. As you may know, Ii Naosuke was assassinated outside the gate in the bakumatsu era. Not sure we really need articles about them... I'd rather have sections on them in a really good article on the castle. But articles would be ok instead, if that's the way people prefer to go. Fg2 10:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Tokaido Road

I posted this in the Tokaido "article" (actually a hybrid article and disambiguation page):

I agree that the historic Tokaido Road should have its own article. The general word "Tokaido" can direct to a disambiguation page (this one). The specific article would also discuss the print series done for the road by various artists such as Hiroshige. Currently "Tokaido Road" directs to a novel by Lucia St. Clair Robson. However, this is a bit like Route 66 being directed to a song title instead of the historic road.

- Parsa 19:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, I was bold and added a new article for Tōkaidō Road. I moved the Robson article to The Tokaido Road (novel). Please enhance this article, add references, and link to the project. - Parsa 23:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Edit flag of Japan to appear with border?

This may seem controversial, but looking at this country box (on right)

日本(国) Nippon / Nihon (koku) Japan
Flag Imperial Seal

a very naive reader -- like a child who has never seen the Japanese flag -- might think it is just a red circular flag, instead of a rectangular flag with a red circle inside a white field.

Is it possible to put some sort of "border" around the image to ensure the flag is seen as a white rectangle with a red sun in the middle? Or could the country infobox be edited to give the flag better definition

Discuss. Guroadrunner 16:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

If it is to have a border, it must be a very thin one. Those I have seen before are far too thick. John Smith's 17:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Didn't we previously have a flag with a border that was both thin and light (not black)? Fg2 22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I only know about this one, but I could edit it to make the border more discreet, if necessary. - Cyrus XIII 22:35, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with having a thin black or gray border. Dekimasuが... 06:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, maybe the infobox had a light gray background, making the white flag's boundaries easier to spot. Fg2 06:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

This is actually a better option for this issue, but the country infobox used for Japan also appears to be used for a lot of other countries, which might make changing things a much larger project. Guroadrunner 13:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I edited and uploaded "Flag of Japan (bordered) 2.svg" from "Flag of Japan.svg". How about this ? N yotarou 15:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a lot better than the thick border. Discreet, but it does still make a difference. John Smith's 20:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I tried again "Flag of Japan (bordered) 3.svg". "Image:Flag of Japan (bordered).svg" on Commons has wider border than I made. Any text editors enable you to edit these images. Please try it and we will find better one. N yotarou 10:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The infobox as is currently displayed on the right looks perfect. -- Exitmoose 23:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The country infobox is supposed to add a thin border to every flag. Looking at the source, it failed to do this if there is a coat of arms image supplied. I've fixed it so the flag is bordered in both cases (with or without a coat of arms). Now using the (pre)bordered image produces a fairly thick border, but I think the unbordered one looks fine. Comments? -- Rick Block (talk) 00:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. The flag as currently displayed on Japan looks better than the thicker-bordered flag now on the right. -- Exitmoose 01:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

That flag now showing with the very small border looks much better, in my humble opinion. Guroadrunner 00:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Photograph appropriate for article?

Would anyone care to comment on whether the photograph in the article Suruga Bay illustrates the subject of the article? Fg2 10:22, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Just someone having fun sticking up a picture of a naked girl. I removed the pic. MightyAtom 11:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a nice woodcut by Hiroshige, which displays the bay. If the article needs illustration, one might as well use this. - Cyrus XIII 11:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Good suggestion. I've added in that picture. The text still needs some serious work, though. LordAmeth 11:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. The editor has added the photo back after a couple of earlier removals, and labeled my removal vandalism, so it'll probably continue. That makes it especially helpful to have support from the Project. Fg2 12:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)