Wikipedia talk:WikiProject James Bond/Archive 3
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"The Shameful Dream"
I was just re-reading the Thunderball (novel) article and an editor has added a reference to an unpublished Fleming short story called "The Shameful Dream" which satirized Lord Beaverbrook for cancelling the TB comic strip. The source given is the James Bond His Man and His World book of a year or so ago. Since we know of only a few non-Bond fiction writings by Fleming, the question needs to be asked: was this a James Bond short story? If it was, it might be worth mentioning in or even creating an article about, if that hasn't already been done. 23skidoo (talk) 04:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- No Google shows up nothing. Vikrant 15:54, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
- It might not, but I'm curious if anyone out there who has read Man and His World might be able to say. If the book indicates that it is a Bond story, then that's sufficient sourcing to add it to James Bond uncollected short stories which already includes Benson's unpublished "Heart of Erzulie". 23skidoo (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Quantum of Solace
Referencing a comment made by an IP on the For Your Eyes Only page, I don't think there should be any confusion regarding links to the newly named movie and the original short story. There was at one point a redirect pointing to the short story, but now the film article has a dab statement. It might be worthwhile doing a quick check to make sure all Quantum of Solace links are properly directed to either the film or short story page, but I really don't expect there to be many story-related wikilinks out there. Given the general "where did this title come from?" reaction, I think it's safe to categorize the short story as "obscure". ;-) 23skidoo (talk) 16:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
B-Class article ratings
Seem as if many of these have been done arbitrarily. They are mostly start class. Vikrant 12:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Thrilling Cities
The talk page says its within WP:007. How? Just because it was Ian Fleming's book? Vikrant 14:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Read the article until you get to the section about "007 in New York". 23skidoo (talk) 00:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Henchmen AfD
List of James Bond henchmen in The Living Daylights has been listed for deletion here. (Special Windler, these are your very own words - two names cant form a list) Vikrant 16:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, true. But would you prefer that we suddenly have a break in our template? Would you prefer that suddenly there is no Living Daylights page or information on Necros. It was discussed before, that all the "henchmen" and "allies" pages would be merged per their film appearence. Because some wern't notable. The "Girls By Film" lists had many of the 21 articles with one or two girls, occasionally 3. The "henchman" mostly have 4, 5, 6. Just because ONE List of, dosen't have as many henchmen, THEN LETS JUST DELETE SHALL WE. SpecialWindler talk 20:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Vikrant ... You're stuffing up this project and James Bond articles on Wikipedia and it's not good. SpecialWindler talk 20:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- I am the #1 contributor to this project! What stuffing are you talking about? Vikrant 14:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- You do do good for articles within this project, but you often decide to mke changes to please yourself. I would have no objections if you raised the issue here first, then a decision was made to take it to AFD ... This project is OURS project not YOURS. You may brag that your #1, but it doesn't give you the right to just say .. well lets delete "List of James Bond henchmen in The Living Daylights".
- Any other opinions? SpecialWindler talk 10:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Keep in mind that you are attacking, forcing bragging (I have removed one attack). Had I been taking permission here, everyone would have said "it just needs expansion not deletion." This has happened before. And I am not doing anything to please myself. I am simply ignoring all rules. Vikrant 13:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- True, but then you've said it yourself: the projects members would have agreed 'that it does need expansion.' Just because it takes two years or longer dosen't mean it isn't notable and you ruin the line of "List of James Bond henchmen in ...". Also, please don't write in the middle of peoples messages, write after the last signature. SpecialWindler talk 20:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Im also sorry if you took offence to that attack, but it seems to me that it's true. SpecialWindler talk 20:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- True, but then you've said it yourself: the projects members would have agreed 'that it does need expansion.' Just because it takes two years or longer dosen't mean it isn't notable and you ruin the line of "List of James Bond henchmen in ...". Also, please don't write in the middle of peoples messages, write after the last signature. SpecialWindler talk 20:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Keep in mind that you are attacking, forcing bragging (I have removed one attack). Had I been taking permission here, everyone would have said "it just needs expansion not deletion." This has happened before. And I am not doing anything to please myself. I am simply ignoring all rules. Vikrant 13:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- I am the #1 contributor to this project! What stuffing are you talking about? Vikrant 14:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Character PROD
It's at least somewhat satasfying that Vikrant, now 'Ultraviolet scissor flame', has at least proposed deletion of List of James Bond characters in Agent Under Fire. Somewaht better than an AFD, thanks. You should alert here before you do it or at least just after you've done it.
On the article: Vikrant has given the following concern for the article: This site is not a game guide. However I see no part of the article which is a guide at all. It is all character biographies not guides (which are on the 'Wikipedia is not', so unless Vikrant has a better explanation, or anyone opposes here, I may remove the prod from the page.
I will refer the articles talk page to here. SpecialWindler talk 20:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- It is very much a game guide. It gives all the in-universe information of characters. Vikrant 13:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Recently, List of James Bond video game locations was deleted. Now anyone can go about saying that it's a list of places and not a game guide, can't they? Vikrant 13:28, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- You know what's ironic, is that a while back one of the members posted that there would be a flood of PROD on JB related characters/articles. Most of us thought from the outside, but alas the PROD/AFD have come from the inside. El Greco(talk) 20:55, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- I feel you are saying is ironic. Windler takes offence that an article (No, plot summaries + game guide) that he made is listed for deletion. Is this called a flood? Vikrant 13:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- And see the irony in what I read above "It's at least somewhat satasfying" and "Somewaht better than an AFD, thanks"! So now what's left to be ironic? Vikrant 13:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hey all, I'm a Proposed Deletion Patroller who was investigating the prod to the List of James Bond characters in Agent Under Fire article. The talk page led me here, where I can see some people aren't 100% satisfied with the proposed deletion. Per WP:PROD, if there is any controversy about the proposed deletion of an article then it cannot be deleted through prod, so I've removed the tag. If anyone still wishes the page to be deleted it must be brought to AfD. Thanks! -- Atamachat 17:34, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'd like to add, too, that this kind of discussion you're having here is exactly what the AfD process is for, so I'd encourage you to go through with it. -- Atamachat 17:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- And see the irony in what I read above "It's at least somewhat satasfying" and "Somewaht better than an AFD, thanks"! So now what's left to be ironic? Vikrant 13:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- I feel you are saying is ironic. Windler takes offence that an article (No, plot summaries + game guide) that he made is listed for deletion. Is this called a flood? Vikrant 13:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
All films semi-locked
Something's going seriously wrong. Anyone has any idea why? Vikrant 15:22, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
- Try it now. I semi-protected the Bond films template because some clueless anon IP kept changing Quantum of Solace to a redirect. Although I didn't click anything that would have made linked pages also protected, it's possible this happened anyway. The padlock icon, though, is still on these articles. However I just tried a film article at random and it seemed to work OK. 23skidoo (talk) 17:41, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Page move proposal
I have placed a proposal at Talk:List of James Bond characters in Casino Royale suggesting the article be renamed List of characters in Casino Royale (1967). The use of "James Bond" in the title is redundant and misleading (as not every character listed is one of the film's James Bonds), plus I feel the title should be disambiguated as there are similar articles relating to the 2006 film. I'd rather seek consensus before going the WP:BOLD route, so comments are welcome. 23skidoo (talk) 15:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
- Really no need of consensus for this. Vikrant 17:34, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Cool. It's only because a number of editors have worked on this that I didn't want to unilaterally make the move. I'll give my proposal a full 24 hours and then make the change if no one objects. (If someone wants to jump ahead and make the move themselves, though, I won't cry). 23skidoo (talk) 03:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
diamonds are forever ga
Diamonds Are Forever (film) has been put on hold for GA nomination. Could anyone please help ith the reviewers requests, as made on the talk page. SpecialWindler talk 20:23, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Bias
I think that we are showing too much bias to the films. For example, character lists are listed in the film order, not the novel order. We have to remember that the novels came first. Also, in some of the character biographies, the novel bio is beneath the film one. I am on a personal campaign to put the novel one first. Also, the films seam to catch more attention than the novels. Emperor001 (talk) 21:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- This discusson has happened before, and it is true. The only reason this happens, in my belief, that the films are far more popular than the novels. But you're right, the novels should be first. The Windler talk 04:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Portal nominated for FP
Welcome here. Ultra! 17:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Nice table in Bond girl
Are all the names above actually Bond girls? Ultra! 17:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Paula Caplan blown away
Shocking! Ultra! 16:38, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
- WTF? The Windler talk 10:30, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- You merged it. Till now you have favoured separate articles for them all. Ultra! 15:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- [1] Ultra! 11:54, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- And? That was nearly 18 months ago. The Windler talk 12:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- So any special reason for keeping Molly Warmflash for 18 months? Ultra! 17:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- Good point! The two characters are pretty equal. They are both allies more than women. The Windler talk 21:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- We gonna start making a list of two people again? El Greco(talk) 21:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- No, we should move Warmflash to the List of Allies page, because she is more of an ally than an woman The Windler talk 22:55, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- We gonna start making a list of two people again? El Greco(talk) 21:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- Good point! The two characters are pretty equal. They are both allies more than women. The Windler talk 21:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- So any special reason for keeping Molly Warmflash for 18 months? Ultra! 17:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
- And? That was nearly 18 months ago. The Windler talk 12:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- [1] Ultra! 11:54, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- You merged it. Till now you have favoured separate articles for them all. Ultra! 15:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
James Bond title sequence
Is there an article on the dancer enhanced music-video like title sequences that open the films? 70.51.8.110 (talk) 07:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
no, James Bond gun barrel sequence, James Bond (films) Ultra! 07:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair use, unfair overuse
List of James Bond henchmen in Casino Royale has twelve screenshots. Somebody please suggest an alternative to this. Ultra! 17:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
- It seems Ok, the text needs citations and expanding though, The Windler talk 10:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Certainly not Ok per {{non-free}}. Ultra! 15:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- And most of them are cropped. Ultra! 15:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- However, my understanding is that were these characters notable enough to warrant separate articles, then using a single screenshot (properly cited, etc) would be allowed. So what's the rule then? How is having screenshots used for different characters in what is technically an omnibus article any different than the multiple images used at Ernst Stavro Blofeld? 23skidoo (talk) 22:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Really, the Ernst Stavro Blofeld articles is an example of {{non-free}}. Differing fair-use images are acceptable if there is no alternative. In the case of List of James Bond henchmen in Casino Royale, there isn't any alternative I can think of unless someone was able to capture an image of them filming and it being released freely. The Blofeld article however makes unnessasary of many images - some of cats which are pointless, merly to show th actor playing the character. The Windler talk 12:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Except that it serves to illustrate the different approaches to depicting the character, from the scarred Pleasance version - which should be illustrated as proof that it inspired the look of Dr. Evil in the Austin Powers film - to the burly look of Savalas and the effeminiate Charles Gray version. Plus the two occasions where only a part of Blofeld was seen (it isn't just pointless illustrations of cats as you put it). 23skidoo (talk) 03:04, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Really, the Ernst Stavro Blofeld articles is an example of {{non-free}}. Differing fair-use images are acceptable if there is no alternative. In the case of List of James Bond henchmen in Casino Royale, there isn't any alternative I can think of unless someone was able to capture an image of them filming and it being released freely. The Blofeld article however makes unnessasary of many images - some of cats which are pointless, merly to show th actor playing the character. The Windler talk 12:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- However, my understanding is that were these characters notable enough to warrant separate articles, then using a single screenshot (properly cited, etc) would be allowed. So what's the rule then? How is having screenshots used for different characters in what is technically an omnibus article any different than the multiple images used at Ernst Stavro Blofeld? 23skidoo (talk) 22:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- And most of them are cropped. Ultra! 15:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Certainly not Ok per {{non-free}}. Ultra! 15:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Aston
Most articles say this is the same car from Goldfinger but the image page doesnt. What is true? Ultra! 15:39, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- It's the same type and make of the car in Goldfinger. It wouldn't be the exact car, used in the film (which would be numerous cars, anyway). The Windler talk 21:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
- I am more serious about this than you think. An FPOC opens with this image and it will be shameful if only the name of the car is relevant to the portal. Ultra! 14:51, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Die Another Day allies
[3] Ultra! 19:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if Ultra accidentally cut off additional comment, but I think what was being pointed out was the fact the List of James Bond allies in Die Another Day article is now up for AFD. 23skidoo (talk) 22:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- My keyboard had problems and somebody jinxed Jinx (after a prod) to the allies list. Ultra! 15:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Heads up about a possible merger movement
There is a move afoot to merge some WikiProjects with some umbrella projects. Wikipedia:WikiProject Sherlock Holmes is currently subject to not one but two merger proposals, one to see it merged with Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels and the other with Wikipedia:WikiProject Media franchises. Similar WikiProjects around the Shannara books and Lemony Snicket are also under the same proposal. I don't know about them, but certainly Holmes is on par with Bond as worthy of a separate WikiProject. The concern here is whether someone might want to do the same proposal for this project. Aside from recommending everyone oppose the mergers currently on the table, we should keep an eye out for any merge attempt with Bond. (PS. I'm aware that, at least in the case of the Snicket WP, the idea was sparked by inactivity of the project, but I still think Sherlock Holmes should be kept separate. 23skidoo (talk) 15:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- It should also be noted that the guy who basically created the Sherlock Holmes project, me, was the one who proposed it be merged, given the minimal activity it has had. I should also note that I was the person who first tagged all three projects for merger, given that they were all marked as inactive at the time. the other two have had more recent activity, and the inactive tags have since been removed. Also, it should be noted that the Sherlock Holmes project is only now being capable of tagging and assessing articles, having not earlier had a banner, and that such is in fact being done. That project has been created, deleted, and recreated more than once. Also, now that the merger is completed, please note that the only aspect of "merger" involved is the project talk page template. It is also the only one which is being merged into the media franchises project that I know of. It is hoped that the creation of the new project might help start both projects, and potentially make it easier for dedicated groups like for Edgar Rice Burroughs/Tarzan and other similar groups to be created in the future. However, the only potential mergers will be with existing projects which have already been tagged as inactive, and the only really "merging" expected to be involved, at least with Media franchises, is in terms of the banner. John Carter (talk) 16:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Anyone has a shot of Moneypenny in Never Say Never Again?
This page also needs same edits like Blofeld. Ultra! 14:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Sucession boxes
Some characters like Dr. No and Goldfinger have succession boxes, but others don't. Should we have them or not? Emperor001 (talk) 19:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Blank them. You have a nav template of characters. Ultra! 15:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- The nav template lists the villains in film order. Shouldn't the characters have 2 boxes? One for their place in the novels (ie Le Chiffre, then Mr. Big, then Hugo Drax, etc.) and a box for the films (ie Dr. No, then Rosa Kleb/Ernst Stavro Blofeld, then Goldfinger, etc.) Emperor001 (talk) 20:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- But its pointless to have any box if you are wikilinking to an article twice. Ultra! 20:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'm also trying to get rid of film bias. The novels came first, therefore, should have a higher priority. The Nav box should list the characters in novel order. Emperor001 (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- But its pointless to have any box if you are wikilinking to an article twice. Ultra! 20:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- The nav template lists the villains in film order. Shouldn't the characters have 2 boxes? One for their place in the novels (ie Le Chiffre, then Mr. Big, then Hugo Drax, etc.) and a box for the films (ie Dr. No, then Rosa Kleb/Ernst Stavro Blofeld, then Goldfinger, etc.) Emperor001 (talk) 20:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Amy Winehouse's rehabilitation done?
Amy will write and record Quantum[4] If Amy has success in becoming free from illegal drugs.[5] Is the rehab done? Ultra! 20:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Does it matter, it's only a rumour. The Windler talk 22:29, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I checked those links and, with no disrespect to anyone intended, I'll take it as a bit more authoritative when we start seeing sources like Reuters and AP or the Times reporting this. Until they do, this falls under the same rumor as Kylie Minogue, Britney Spears, Nelly Furtado, Lily Allen and all the others who have been rumored to be in line to do the Quantum theme. That said, given how big she is, having Winehouse do it might well be a possibility, but they could also decide to go with a male performer like they did with Cornell. 23skidoo (talk) 23:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
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- So whose report is reliable? Ultra! 15:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Only official reports from MGM/EON/Sony etc. The Casino Royale article didn't put Chris Cornell down until it was officially announced. Before that, like this film, there will always be speculation about who will do it. There is speculation on every aspect of the film, but until it's confirmed, then it's just a rumour. The Windler talk 21:26, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
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{{James Bond characters}}
Can someone fix this template, It looks ugly.
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The Windler talk 06:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- Well, you initiated this novel and film segregation. Either take it back to it's pre split version or leave it as is. I merely added the subgroups because your edits didn't help the template at all by splitting film and novel characters by inserting the "by film" in the text. El Greco(talk) 19:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- We don't really need to segregate the two. Since all films not based on novels and short stories had novelisations, we don't need to have a separate section for novel and film characters. Just list them in novel order. Emperor001 (talk) 22:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- No, No, you have me completly mistaken, it quite fine the way it is, the format (how it looks) is ugly. The other charcters and officials part needs to be even, it looks ugly with the other charcters sticking out and the officials sticking in. I don't want the text changed, I want it to look neat. The Windler talk 22:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- We don't really need to segregate the two. Since all films not based on novels and short stories had novelisations, we don't need to have a separate section for novel and film characters. Just list them in novel order. Emperor001 (talk) 22:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Novels over Films
As part of my opinion (and others) that the novels should be given AT LEAST equal status against the film, if not more status.
I have re-ordered the character template {{James Bond characters}} to be in the order of novels then films.
This orderisation should be continued in any lists/articles/templates that show extreme bias towards the films.
There is alot of work to do, to get this standard up, but the novels were first and even though the films are more popular, the would be no films without the novels.
Thanks. The Windler talk 22:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- Finally! Glad to see I'm not the only one. Emperor001 (talk) 20:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Fine, but why are Spy who loved me and Moonraker in novels section when not even one character was in the novels? Ultra! 13:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
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- As long as there is a standard established and it is clear which has been followed. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 13:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Drax was in both the novel and film Moonraker. Emperor001 (talk) 17:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
- His gangs were different. Ultra! 15:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
- Drax was in both the novel and film Moonraker. Emperor001 (talk) 17:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
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The characters template is back to original
That's due to overlap of novel-film and some characters being in films who have only title in common with novels. Ultra! 10:54, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
- What a pussy reason. Reverted. The Windler talk 11:39, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
