Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hudson Valley

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Welcome! Juliancolton (talk) 21:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Project banner

I wonder whether the rest of you would feel comfortable using the {{WikiProject New York}} template if it was adjusted to include specific parameters for the Hudson Valley as well. It would reduce the amount of space taken up by banners. John Carter (talk) 21:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Sort of like the way the former NYSR template is now this: {{U.S. Roads WikiProject|state=NY}}? I suppose that could work. It would avoid having to separately set up "nested" and other parameters in this template. Daniel Case (talk) 19:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Task force?

Given how small and limited its scope is, wouldn't this project work better as a task force of the New York Wikiproject? I've requested some comments from the NY Wikiproject talk page. --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. Maybe. Anyway, how did you find this? Juliancolton (talk) (Happy New Year!) 18:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, it just seems like such a limited scope, and there are only two users. --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
You could make it three. :P It has a pretty big scope; roads, landmarks, parks, our famous mansions, the CIA, all of the cities, the river... Juliancolton (talk) (Happy New Year!) 21:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
It's still pretty limited for its own project, and given that most already fall under the NY project, having a task force might be a better route; that way, people in the NY project might be more inclined to help out here. --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


WikiProject New York isn't all that active, really, and has so many articles that carving them up regionally makes more sense. It did for the Syracuse project, anyway (which I would suggest be expanded to something like WikiProject Central New York). There are lots of small NRHP articles that I didn't add to WP:NYS because of their lack of statewide significance. However, as a regional thing it would work better.

I very much favor making this a separate project page but with the banner being the basic WP:NYS banner with a link to WikiProject Hudson Valley. Daniel Case (talk) 19:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

FYI, about the Syracuse Wikiproject, it is virtually dead, with only chat being just me working mainly on List of Registered Historic Places in Onondaga County, New York and one other person doing List of Syracuse University buildings. I do wish it was WikiProject Central New York, instead, to include in some wiki interest in Binghamton. How would one go about changing it to WikiProject CNY, do you have any idea? In general I think bigger areas are better, just to capture more interest. And I wonder if we all should participate in New York WikiProject instead, which is pretty low activity however. I have not seen Task Forces in action in any other State or City wikiprojects i have browsed, am not sure how those might work. doncram (talk) 00:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I guess the question then is the name. What would the name of this page be:Wikipedia:WikiProject Hudson Valley, Wikipedia:WikiProject New York/Hudson Valley task force or Wikipedia:WikiProject New York/Hudson Valley work group? We'd probably want to know for setting up the banner. John Carter (talk) 19:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The page would be the same as it is currently. The question is do we use a seperate project banner? Juliancolton (talk) 20:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The more that I think about it doing something like what we did in the roads project would be best. We'd preserve all the banner's bells and whistles, without having to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, and make clear the relationship between the state and regional projects. We could use both the state flag image and the river image. Daniel Case (talk) 05:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I made my own banner for my user page, with a view of the Hudson River and the Bear Mountain Bridge. Rather than trying to decide on a specific landmark, I just went with the literal Hudson Valley. It's not the greatest picture since it was kind of a hazy day, but something along those lines might not be a bad idea. There are plenty of free photos of the river and valley.
Also, for what it's worth, I'm in support of keeping this a separate Wikiproject; I'm much more likely to contribute here than I am on the generic NY one, even though I'm a member of both. Kafziel [[User talk:Kafziel|Talk] ] 20:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Geographic scope issues

The question of what, geographically, constitutes the Hudson Valley is a question independent of Wikipedia and this project, of course. But we need to consider it too.

  • By putting it under the New York project, we have excluded Bergen and Hudson counties in New Jersey, both of which have long river frontage. I doubt there will be objections anywhere, but you never know.
  • There would be no argument about the traditional Hudson Valley counties: all that have river frontage in NY between Albany and New York City (Albany, Columbia, Dutchess, Greene, Orange, Rensselaer, Rockland, Ulster and Westchester). Do we stop at Albany or consider "the valley" to go all the way up to Lake Tear of the Clouds?
  • Then there's the "regional overlap" question, or what to do about the Catskills. The eastern part of the region overlaps with the HV. The western (in the Delaware River watershed) does not. Should there be a separate Catskills subproject. I'd love this, of course, but I know others may feel differently.
  • That also brings up whether or not to include Sullivan County. Geographically, only three small corners are within the Hudson watershed, yet Sullivan as a whole is sometimes included as a Hudson Valley county (it has ex officio representation on Mid-Hudson Pattern for Progress) and arguably its economy and culture look very much to the east and northeast, given that there's not much in the other directions. Do we include it or not?

Any input is welcome. Daniel Case (talk) 05:29, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I would include Sullivan if for no other reason than that the D & H canal runs through it. It's not a major part of the Hudson watershed anymore, but it was pretty vital at one time and I agree about the cultural and economic link. As for whether we go past Albany, I don't really have an opinion on that one. I'd be interested to see what some published sources have to say about it. Kafziel Ask me for rollback 20:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't think that it would include New Jersey no matter what we do with the project. Now, I still strongly support the keeping of this project as a seperate project, so, I think we should really think about this. This picture

shows that the hudson valley only goes to Dutchess. I dissagree with that, because the valley goes up to Albany, IMO. The actual valley is the area between the two mountain regions; the catskills, and the hinglands on one side, and the takonics.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Julian Colton (talk • contribs)

Ok, now comes the question as to whether to include Westchester. I think so, but I'd like to hear other's opinions. Also, I figured we include our scope on articles all the way up to Albany, and maybe to Tear of the Clouds. Thoughts? Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 15:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I was thinking articles in the following counties could be included:

  • Westchester
  • Rockland
  • Orange
  • Putnam
  • Sullivan
  • Ulster
  • Dutchess
  • Columbia
  • Rensselaer
  • Albany
  • Greene Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 16:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Most of Westchester is a no-brainer. Yes, even down to Yonkers and even out to North Salem. But I'm not as sure about communities on Long Island Sound and the New Haven Line, like the whole group from Mount Vernon and New Rochelle to Rye and Port Chester. They don't seem to me to identify with the Hudson Valley. Maybe we should be specific about towns here. Daniel Case (talk) 16:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Yonkers, to me, isn't truely part of the Hudson Valley. Would it be of any use to make a map with inkscape highlighting what the project considers the HV? Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 16:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree that southern Westchester should be part of this category. I'd opt to draw the line at the Tappan Zee Bridge and/or White Plains. Areas further south are often considered to be more of the NY-NJ metropolitan area. If you include Yonkers, you'd logically have to include, say, Hoboken.--Ana Nim (talk) 14:14, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
If we draw the line at specific points or locations rather than county boundaries, it could cause confusion. Southern Westchester is still located along the river, so IMO it should be considered part of the Hudson Valley. The problem is, though, that the NYC WikiProject includes Westchester, so I don't know if we want too much overlap. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 15:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Newsletter

Do we start a newsletter for the project? Juliancolton (talk) 19:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Let's wait till we have some more users and are really going. But it's a great idea. Daniel Case (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Banner

It seems like we'll keep the separate project banner. Fair enough ... there are a number of U.S. state projects where a city project has a separate banner, and I don't see why we can't. Although I would like to see some acknowledgement of the NY project in the HV banner.

But can we decide what should be in both projects and what should only be in WP:HVNY? County and major city articles (Newburgh, Poughkeepsie and Kingston, probably Beacon and Peekskill) definitely belong to both NY as a whole and HV.

However, a lot of the RHPs I've been doing really aren't of statewide importance, and I think most schools would be better served by a regional designation. Any other thoughts? Daniel Case (talk) 18:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessments

I've been working for a few days to get down from 80+ articles to just over 20, and counting. I think we should make it a priority to assess every article with the Hudson Valley tag. Thanks, Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 15:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Roads task-force

I've also been working (and I still am) to place the project banner and assess as many articles as I can find, and a good part of the are road articles, many of which are only Stub and Start-class. Any thoughts on a HV roads task-force? Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 15:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I think NYSR already takes care of that. There's a fair amount of overlap there anyway. Daniel Case (talk) 16:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I propsed a HV task-force there, too. There is overlap, but generally the NYSR works on routes in western and central NY. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 16:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Huh? The most active editors may focus in those areas but the project is indeed statewide. – TMF 20:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, then I'll be part of it there because I've done so much on HV-area roads. Daniel Case (talk) 16:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the project is statewide, but there is next to no activity in the Hudson Valley roads except for myself and Daniel Case. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
And someone from WNY could argue that there's next to no activity there except for the edits that I make. I commented on this at NYSR and opposed it for one solid reason: sure, there may be stubs and starts in the Hudson Valley but there's also a boatload of recognized content (GA+) originating from the area. So in short, it's no better or worse than any other area of the state. I also don't see what this proposed task force can provide that NYSR doesn't. – TMF 04:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)