Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greece/Archive 3

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Editing of articles

In the past few days, following a rather lengthy period of good edits, editing of a few key articles of WPHOG, such as the Greek military junta of 1967-1974, Metapolitefsi, Kostas Georgakis, Athens Polytechnic uprising, Diomedes Komnenos etc., has been reversing key sections of these articles and substantially rewriting them. I reverted many of them. I know this is Wikipedia and it is open etc. but could we just set up a task force to periodically check these article against erosion? I can volunteer for the committee. The task is big. Thanks. Dr.K. 16:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I do check the articles for erosion and consistently, quite frequently. There are all manner of things to be done. Has this group decided whether it's going to be modern and use CE and BCE rather than BC and AD? If not, what is the thinking behind retaining the older form? I find it troubling, as a prehistorian, to have to use BC, but if that's the will of the group, it's fine with me. 69.108.139.110 (talk) 18:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kamaila

Cleanup tags

There's been a fair amount of discussion on the mailing list and in other places lately of our system for dealing with low-quality articles (i.e. cleanup tagging), and a lot of people seem to agree that it isn't working. It's been suggested, though, that making topic editing communities aware of problem articles might work a little better. To that end, I asked someone to make a list of all the WP:GREECE articles that are currently tagged for wikification, cleanup, or referencing. As it happens, there are only 22 of them, although a couple will probably be doozies; the list is at User:Robth/sandbox for the moment. If we could get these cleaned up, that would be pretty cool, and would demonstrate that we could do something about our backlogs if we just got wikiprojects more involved. If anyone wants to help out, take a look at the list and pick an article that suits you, then cross it out on the list and remove the tag from the article when you're done. (Dibs on Peace of Callias). --RobthTalk 16:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

One other thing--I was just reminded that this list is as of mid-January (the last date for which the toolserver has a copy of the enwiki database) so there's a chance that some of these will have been cleaned up already). --RobthTalk 17:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I was between Dimosthenis_Liakopoulos and Hagia Sophia, but with pain in my heart I'll betray Demosthenes for Hagia Sophia!! Seriously now: I want to work on the article, but in about a month from now.--Yannismarou 10:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for taking a look! Callias is proving challenging, but it should be well worth the effort in the end. (Plenty of juicy ones left, for anyone else who's interested.) --RobthTalk 14:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Where is the list of articles needing clean-up? I'm new to this group, but not new to reviewing articles. I'm going through some of the Greek Neolithic pages (such as the one on Sesklo) and finding that more recent research using molecular studies to assess where plants and animals (and humans) come from is not incorporated, leading to a rather Greco-centric view on the Neolithic. It has been obvious to archaeologists since at least the mid-1990's that Greece is not the home of European farming, and statements like "cattle were domesticated in Greece" must, in light of genetic evidence on said cattle, be abandoned. At any rate, I'd add all articles involving the late Paleolithic and the transition to the Neolithic to articles needing clean-up. 69.108.139.110 (talk) 18:29, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kamaila

{{Aegean Sea}}

There is a discussion going on here about deleting this template. As the template stands, I agree that it's useless. But, I've made a new one to replace it (and {{Cyclades}}, {{Dodecanese}} and {{Sporades}} as well) here: User:Kimon/Aegean Sea. I believe it would be useful if folks from this project add their thoughts to the discussion there. Thanks! --Kimontalk 12:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, the original has been deleted and I moved the one I created over to {{Aegean Sea}}. I've started adding the template to some of the articles (List of Aegean Islands, Aegean Sea, etc.) But, wanted an "ok" from the membership before adding it to all the other articles on the list. --Kimontalk 22:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Please add them! Shouldn't there be one page on the Aegean Sea and another on Aegean islands? 69.108.139.110 (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kamaila

Hellenism

Also, I feel terrible every time I have to wikilink something as noble as Hellenism to this pathetic excuse for an article. Can someone with the adequate amount of balls historical background write the masterpiece that is deserved? NikoSilver 15:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I find this issue of utmost priority within the project of the scope (:-)) so I created a new heading. I was referring to this version of 'Hellenism' (which can of course be linked within the present disambig article. NikoSilver 15:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I fixed a spelling mistake above to bring this up again in your watchlists. NikoSilver 20:08, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Quite successfully indeed! I promise I'll work on it, but not this month. From some time my wikitime will be a bit more limited. But I'll look at it.--Yannismarou 20:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay, the article on Hellenism isn't fixed, and it is really, really bad. Almost anything at all would be better. I will try my hand at it, with my trusty classicist-spouse at my side. Naturally, one could write a book on this topic, but I believe I have the notion of summarizing a concept down well enough to attempt an edit. I am not good with tags or html or links or any of that, and will be more than happy if someone else radically deconstructs whatever it is I write. But I do have the time to at least make some improvements on that article, by which I mean at least the topic sentence could refer to Hellenism! 69.108.139.110 (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kama'ila, November 22, 2007.

Indo-Greek Kingdom

The FA article Indo-Greek Kingdom is currently under review to keep or remove its FA status. You can make comments and vote at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Indo-Greek Kingdom. PHG 18:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Translation help requested

This isn't within the scope of the project, but I thought I might find someone here who spoke Greek. A Greek editor has left a message on my talk page, and one sentence in the message is in Greek; I'd really like to know what he said to me. Would someone be willing to go to my talk page and give me a rough translation into English? Thanks in advance to whoever is willing to do me the favor. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Sparta needs cites

Sparta still needs additional cites. -- Writtenonsand 16:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

GA Sweeps articles on hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Conflicts, battles and military exercises" articles. For the following articles, I believe the articles currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I am leaving this message at this project page, along with the other relevant task forces/WikiProjects to the articles, since the articles fall under this topic and figured you might be interested in helping to improve the articles further. Please read the indidual holds below to see how each article can be improved. --Nehrams2020 02:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Battles of macrohistorical importance involving invasions of Europe GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

Battles of macrohistorical importance involving invasions of Europe—In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues considering sourcing that should be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. The article needs some more inline citations, an expanded lead, and uniform inline citation formatting. If added, I'll pass the article. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 00:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Morea expedition GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

Morea expedition—In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues considering sourcing that should be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. The article needs just a few more inline citations and if added, I'll pass the article. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 01:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Byzantine-Ottoman wars GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

Byzantine-Ottoman wars—In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues considering the lead and some sourcing that should be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. The article needs just a few more inline citations, an expanded lead, and some minor cleanup, and if fixed, I'll pass the article. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 02:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Greece article

Dear Friends,

Has anyone who is an expert on the subject taken a good look at the article on Ancient Greece recently? It is in dreadful shape. It seems like the pros have neglected it and that American high school students have run amok all over it. I know for a fact that American schoolteachers encourage their students to edit Wikipedia (probably so they don't have to grade homework), and since Ancient Greece is a favorite topic of the American school curriculum, this seems to be the end result. There are so many literally infantile and inane sentences that they are too numerous to mention. Here's one such "gem", from the "Living" subsection:

The Greeks lived around the sea and they could develop there because of trading with near countries and islands. Trade was very important in their life. They also lived between mountains but the mountains blocked a way of trading with near cities.

I'm not joking, this is lifted straight from the article. Does it sound to you like this was written by a professional Classicist or by an American 5th grader? The situation is also reflected in the history of the article, with users with names like Homeworkguy101 and TigersRock40 being the majority of editors and making all sort of inane, vandalism-level changes that fool the bots. For example the genius named Homeworkguy101, in a brilliant expression of American high school humor, changed the term "Romano-Egyptian" to "lettuce-Egyptian", doubtless alluding to romaine lettuce. Christ, what a moron. I have also noticed that it also is BY FAR the most frequently vandalized article on my watchlist.

This is a real shame. Classical Greece is the high point of Greek culture, and the article should be one of our top priorities. We shouldn't let this sort of thing happen. I brought this up on the article's discussion page, and was immediately validated by a user named athinaios, who agreed with me completely. He suggested, and I agreed, that the article is in need of a major overhaul, perhaps written from scratch. Since neither of us is a Classicist, this would require users who are experts in the subject to undertake it. This would doubtless be a time-consuming project, and one that would require the collaboration of many editors. To prevent the almost continuous by imbecilic high-schoolers, I would even propose that the article be semi-protected for the time being, at least until the schoolyear is over. Lastly, it would be nice to some true Hellenic input into the articles on Ancient Greece. I feel that they are dominated by mostly Anglo-American editors who have their own warped perspective, and it would be really nice to see some genuine Hellenic perspective in these articles, at last.--Tsourkpk (talk) 08:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
So, what's with the straight assumption that the poor edits and vandalism of these articles are American? Or even the implicit referral to an anti-Hellenic tendency on Wikipedia? Vandalism is vandalism just like POV is POV and they come from all over the place. If an edit is not right or needs improvement, remove it or enhance it.
Also, positive input cannot only come from Greek editors as they can introduce bias of their own (unwillingly).
I do understand your overarching point though and agree. To this effect, I went ahead and removed the "living" section and made a note of reviewing the article later in the week. --Kimontalk 17:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

1) I live in America for the time being, and I am also in the education business. I read a lot of stuff written by students and I have a lot of experience in this area. Many of the passages in question read EXACTLY like the stuff I read on a daily basis, so I don't think my assumption is unwarranted. For example, there was a passage that said that only "white males" could vote in Athens. This term is lifted straight out of American PC (political correctness) jargon, and to my knowledge is not used elsewhere (added by a use named amanda ruff. sound american enough to you?). I also know for a fact that American schoolteachers encourage their students to edit wikipedia. A lot of the vandalism is also obviously done by school age students. If you monitor the article you'll see what I mean. It's also more or less constant and most of the IP addresses originate in the US. I've been monitoring the article for a while now, and I know what I'm talking about.
2) I'm not saying there is anti-Hellenic bias in Wikipedia, just that Hellenic input on articles about Classical Greece seems to be minimal. So it would be nice to see some Hellenic input in these articles as well. I'm glad that you agree with me about the state of the article, and your input is much appreciated. --Tsourkpk (talk) 19:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

My friend, when your accusations are specific to American schools and "Anglo-American editors who have their own warped perspective", am I wrong to see a pattern in what you say?
Political correctness is crap and unfortunately, it does not only exist in the US.
As for your comment on the name of the editor "amanda ruff", it sounds a lot like something Bart Simpson would say. So no, it's not "American enough for me". But hey, that's just me.
I agree that Greek contribution is minimal but, that's across the board on all articles of general interest. This is to be expected, considering the overall percentage of Greek users of this Wikipedia (assuming that it is similar to the % of Greek internet users worldwide).
What I'm trying to say is: it's one thing to call out the poor state or the constant vandalism of an article and it's quite another to say that "they" are trying to ruin "our" article and "we" need to "fix it". I hope I made my point come across. Though I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree but, if we do continue this discussion, I propose moving it to our respective talk-pages and not burden the project.
As for the article itself, hopefully it will be enhanced soon and I also don't see anything wrong with a request for semi-protection for a short period of time. Though, today has been pretty calm from what I can see in the history. --Kimontalk 21:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm guess it's easy to be misunderstood in writing. No, I don't see a "conspiracy" against "us", but the constant vandalism fits a very specific pattern and it's really getting on my nerves. Here's another one from today:

also they think that the body are beautyful thats why they make sculture of naked people that are famous


I mean, it's just doesn't end. In any case, I guess you're right that it doesn't matter where the vandals come from, vandalism is vandalism. It really irritates me though. I just hope the page gets semi-protected soon, because I have better things to do than constantly revert vandalism and idiocy.--Tsourkpk (talk) 00:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Update

Just so everyone knows, I updated the FA and GA lists on the WikiProject Greece main page. Interestingly, I came across the Delphi article and it currently has a GA-class rating. Unfortunately, the article never received a GA nomination and has not even undergone a rudimentary GA review. By any chance could someone fix this problem? Thanks. Deucalionite (talk) 22:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Took care of everything. Elysonius (talk) 02:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Topic classification of articles

I noticed that some projects have a topic classification represented by a "topic" parameter in their project banners (e.g. {{WPArgentina}}). I wondering if we should consider doing something similar. Right off the top of my head, I can think of "politics", "sports", "food", "geography", etc. What do y'all think? --Kimontalk 20:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

So, I went ahead and made the relevant modifications to my sandbox copy of the template {{User:Kimon/WPGR}}. Samples can be found here. Let me know if you think I should migrate these changes to the "production" version of the banner. --Kimontalk 15:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
  • I have no objection to such an addition. I think it is a fine idea.--Yannismarou (talk) 16:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Y Done - Now, I have to start classifying the articles. --Kimontalk 18:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Twelve Olympians

In the article of Twelve Olympians some editors constantly add gods who are not members of the 12. We should do something to stop this, because reverting all the time is not a solution and it's not possible as well. - Sthenel (talk) 08:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed that and have reverted edits a few times myself. But, it's not always a case of vandalism. Many times, the editor truly believes that [insert deity here] is a member of the 12. The options we have, as I see it, are 1) protect the page (I don't agree with this) 2) keep reverting (time consuming and unpractical) 3) add comments stating not to change the list without a valid academic reference (which will be ignored). --Kimontalk 14:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course it's not a case of vandalism but these kind of editors don't discuss the issue and they don't stop reverting all the time. - Sthenel (talk) 06:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone help with this? This particular user maybe ignores the rules of wikipedia and wants to put on the map his own version. - Sthenel (talk) 12:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Greek loanwords

I had a brief talk with another user on Category talk:Greek loanwords where we came to the conclusion that it doesn't make sense to have a category for this in an encyclopedia (makes more sense in a dictionary). But, we saw value in an article covering the topic on how this came about.
Since I'm nowhere near an expert on the topic, I was wondering if someone from this project would be qualified and willing to create that article. I'd be more than happy to assist with editing/formatting/etc.
So..... any takers? --Kimontalk 14:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


Principality of Pindus

This is the proper namebook google Balkanfreezer (talk) 17:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Something has to be done about the "Greco-Persian Wars" article

I've only been a Wikipedian for a few months, and I don't want to step on any toes. But as someone with a PhD in Classics, I can tell you that this article needs pruning. Any historian will tell you that the Persian Wars are conventionally dated to 490-479. I know that the conflict didn't officially end until the Peace of Callias decades later, but that's beside the point. Cf. the Korean War, which to this day isn't officially over, but is still dated to the 1950's. The events of 490-479 are more than enough for their own article. Anything post-479 belongs in the Delian League article and/or the Peloponnesian War article. I've already butted heads with (I assume) a fervent Macedonian nationalist who thinks Macedonia played some meaningful role in the Persian Wars; they did not. They kicked ass after the Peloponnesian Wars, but played no significant role in the events of 490-479. Check (e.g.) history textbooks by John V.I. Fine, Bury-Meiggs and Thomas Martin. I'm afraid to do the pruning on my own until a consensus is reached, but e-mail and random Classicist at any college or university, and they'll tell you the same thing.

P.S. In my experience, the conventional term for the conflict is the Persian Wars. It may not be strictly NPOV, but neither is "Vietnam War." But that's the title of that article. Any secondary appellations should be just that -- secondary.

Can someone please go to my talk page and point me to something resembling an administrative authority on the matter? Seriously. Any encyclopedic article on the Persian Wars that runs from 490 to the Peace of Callias is (no offense) just nuts. Ifnkovhg (talk) 06:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible Athens task force?

There is now a proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Athens for a group to work with articles relating to Athens which has garnered five members, enough generally for a task force. Would the members of this project be interested in taking it on as a task force/work group? John Carter (talk) 18:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

If such a task force is created, it should be under this project. I cannot see it belonging anywhere else. --Kimontalk 22:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Well I had posted about a WP:Athens here on the talk page a while back, it's in the most recent archive page. If it's much better to create it as a task force rather than a full Wikiproject, I'm all for it. El Greco(talk) 23:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


Ok - We have 6 confirmed users that would like to be part of an "Athens" taskforce under this project. I would be more than happy to set up the infrastructure to support the task-force and if there aren't any objections raised here, I'll go ahead and start. I'll pick an arbitrary 3 days for objections to surface and then I'll start :) --Kimontalk 19:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
If you need any help just leave me a message and I'll see what I can do. As the one who first proposed it I have to help out. El Greco(talk) 19:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Or with me. Granted, I make mistakes, but I have generated task force parameter banners before. John Carter (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I'll be sure to ask for help for the content of the taskforce pages from you guys but John, if you take away the {{WPGR}} work, what'll be left for me? ;-) --Kimontalk 21:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Y Done Wikipedia:WikiProject Greece/Athens task force --Kimontalk 02:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Looks good. I went ahead and started tagging some articles within the task force's scope. El Greco(talk) 16:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Eniskhimeni Analogiki

Dear WikiProject Greece. I'm trying to complete Template:European Parliament election, 2004 - Statistics and need to find out the method Greece used for seat allocation in the 2004 European Parliament elections. The European Parliament factsheets [1][2] say that the seat allocation method is "Eniskhimeni Analogiki". This is neither confirmed nor contradicted explicitly by the European Parliament 2004 website [3]. A Google search for the term throws up <10 hits [4] which isn't much use. I think (I might be wrong) that the term might be a transliteration into the Roman alphabet from the Greek, either directly into English or possibly via French. An inspection of the relevant Ministry of Interior website (Greek:[5], French: [6], English [7]) doesn't use the term, although I cannot read Greek and therefore cannot say definitively. If anybody on this project can inform me what the English term (ideally as per Voting_system) for the method that Greece uses for seat allocation, then I would be very grateful. Thank you for your time, regards Anameofmyveryown (talk) 19:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

"Eniskhimeni Analogiki" or "Ενισχυμένη Αναλογική" means "Enhanced Proportional" or, to use a term from Voting system, "Semi-proportional". Hope this helps. --Kimontalk 13:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
NO! NO! NO! Attention! "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" IS NOT USED in the elections for the European Parliament! It is used for the elections of the National Parliament (Vouli). I do not know what europa.eu says but it is wrong. "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" is used for the national elections. The system for the European elections is completely proportional (with no extra seats for the first party) with a threshold of 3%. That is what the Greek Ministry of Internal Affairs says. It is in Greek but Kimon can confirm it.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Yiannis is absolutely correct but, so is my translation of the term ;)
For reference, here is the English language link --Kimontalk 14:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
"Purely proportional" not "semi-proportional". Yes, as far as the "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" used only in national elections the translation ia accurate.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the above: I appreciate the effort it took. I've copied this discussion to Template talk:European Parliament election, 2004 - Statistics for future reference. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 21:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Greek vampire folklore

However, this was not the case everywhere; on Mount Pelion vampires glowed in the dark, while those on the Saronic Islands were described as hunchbacks with long nails, and vampires on the island of Lesbos were reported to have long wolf-like canine teeth. -can anyone get sources for this. All help on vampire article appraciated. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


I have a copy of a magazine called "Μυστική Ελλάδα" (Secret Greece) in a special edition called "Στοιχειωμένη Ελλάδα" (Haunted Greece), of 20+ pages on vampire folklore throught Greece, with the sources on it (mostly "Παραδόσεις" "Traditions" of Nikolaos Politis). The only problem is that it is in Greek and I haven't yet managed to find anything online... --Michael IX the White (talk) 21:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Cyprus topics

Since there is now a WikiProject Cyprus, I am of the opinion that the Cyprus related topics currently tagged with the {{WPGR}} banner need to be removed and replaced with {{WPCYP}}. I just don't see how the majority of those articles are any longer in scope. Opinions? --Kimontalk 16:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Some of them fall under the scope of WPGR though like the whole Cyprus Dispute. Those shouldn't have the WPGR tag removed. El Greco(talk) 18:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree, which is why I said "the majority" :)
I could see how Cyprus, Greek Cypriots and the History of Cyprus are covered by the WPGR scope but, I cannot say the same for articles such as APOEL FC. Granted, there aren't that many articles tagged for this project which would belong in WPCYP (alone) anymore but, there are a few out there still. --Kimontalk 18:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Island/City Naming Convention

It seems there is a dispute going on with the naming convention of Greek Islands and cities as to whether to include the Italian and Ottoman/Turkish variants of the name along with the Greek. Any already established consensus or convention to quickly stop this dispute? Currently it's this IP who keeps removing them: User:89.210.142.194 but it changes from time to time, and you can see in his contributions list what article the user removes the names from rather than listing them here. El Greco(talk) 01:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Showcase

The WikiProject's main page is getting rather large due to the amount of FAs, GAs and DYKs. So I suggestiong that we make a seperate showcase page similiar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Turkey/StatusArticleList. Any thoughts? Kyriakos (talk) 12:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. El Greco(talk) 22:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I'll go ahead and create it. Kyriakos (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Presidents and Kings of Greece

Hello everybody, please have a look into this proposed merger.

Thank you, Str1977 (talk) 21:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Attention

I recently came across the Ohrana article about the Bulgarian force backed by Nazis which is responsible for many atrocities in occupied Greece and is described as angels falling from sky.I revisioned the article but if we have someone here who has a special interest about the period please take a look.

All the references and cites are Bulgarian!!!!! Eagle of Pontus (talk) 14:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Pontic Greeks

Hey in the article we shall post real photos from us like Kazatzidis,Christodoulos,Diamantidis,Vissarion,Ioannidis etc etc.Take a look at how Armenians put their photos of Armenian people.It's a good blueprint.Unfortunately i don't know how to upload photos so please maybe experienced users here can help.NikoSilver,Future,Chalpkides etc etc.Any help appreciated. Eagle of Pontus (talk) 18:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternative toponyms for Greek places

Project members might be interetested in this Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Slavic toponyms for Greek places.--Damac (talk) 15:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

New Archbishop

Does anyone think that we should make an article about the election of the new archbishop of the Church of Greece? Grk1011 (talk) 23:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

If you think you can write enough about it to make a good sized article, go for it --Kimontalk 19:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hellenic Post

I recently created the Hellenic Post page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-real-zeus (talk • contribs) 16:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Thanks a lot for your contribution!--Yannismarou (talk) 12:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Music

This is an announcement for all Wikiproject:Greece members:

Me and Greekboy have made a To Do List for pages related to Greek music, if you want to help, leave a message on either of our talk pages. Thanks. Grk1011 (talk) 15:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I updated the project's noticeboard, adding your very useful list there (under "to create" section). Check my edit, and alter in case you think it could be more useful otherwise. By the way, Kyriakos your "showcase sub-article" is very nice! Well-done!--Yannismarou (talk) 13:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Showcase

Hats off to Kyriakos for creating the showcase page for WikiProject Greece. I added some recent Greek-related DYK articles to the list. However, I am confused as to why there are red links for accessing the talk pages to some of the GA and FA articles. Is this a programming error or something? Deucalionite (talk) 15:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm really not sure. I had a glance at the WP:TIRKEY showcase and notice that several of the talk pages there had red links. I think it must be a programming error of some sort. Kyriakos (talk) 21:11, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Bravo Kyriakos!!!! I fixed some of the links to aviod a redirect, which gave them a red link for their talk page. El Greco(talk) 21:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Good work with the link EL Greco. The page lloks much better now. Kyriakos (talk) 22:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hellenization

Is there any point for having such an article?Btitanization...Turkification....Albanization...Francization...POVation... Eagle of Pontus (talk) 15:15, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

AEK Athens F.C.

I have been updating the AEK Athens F.C. page since i joined in June 2006, and i do not feel that it's rating should be start...can anybody change it..??The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 22:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, before its upgraded to B class, I'd like to see some more intext citations. Grk1011 (talk) 02:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • In wich part exactly..need citations..??The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 15:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
There should be references or citations whenever something is not considered common knowledge. Grk1011 (talk) 21:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • How about now..i have searched and seached...its all i could find :-P..??The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 23:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I upgraded it, but I'd like to see some more references if possible. You had to have gotten the info from somewhere. If you just knew it, its most likely common knowledge and a reference would not be required. Grk1011 (talk) 01:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Symbols or flags representing Greek cities, regions and islands?

I can't help but notice, compared to other European countries Greece does not seem to have as many flags or symbols representing a city or island, not even for the Regions of Greece. Only in special rare cases like Athens or Zakynthos. While in comparison Italy and Spain have a town or village symbol for even the most minor entity. Maybe I'm missing something big, but is there any reason why this is so? - Gennarous (talk) 17:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Chariot racing FAR

Chariot racing has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Help with Image

Is there anyone that might be able to find / help with the sourcing of Image:Masturbating satyr, amasis painter.JPG? It's slated for deletion from Commons, and while it doesn't seem to be critical to the project, you can understand I have a tiny bit of a desire to see it kept =D Help is appreciated! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Συνάντηση Βικιπαιδιστών στην Αθήνα

there will be a meeting of wikipedians in athens on 31/03/08, see el:Βικιπαίδεια:Συνάντηση —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.173.150.146 (talk) 13:12, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Officially announced!--Yannismarou (talk) 18:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Sport in Greece,2007-08 in Greek Football,Football in Greece

I recently created the much needed pages Sport in Greece and 2007-08 in Greek football and Football in Greece...if i made an mistakes feel free to edit...The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 19:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

If you are making pages for WikiProject Greece, then make sure you add {{WPGR}} to the page's talk page. Grk1011 (talk) 19:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
DoneThe-Real-ZEUS (talk) 00:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Updated GA list

I updated the GA list and the current showcase indicates a total of 31 articles. I also checked that each GA article has undergone a GA review. So far, everything checks out except for the Modern Greek grammar article. I do not know how this particular article received GA status without a GA review. Deucalionite (talk) 14:27, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

If it hasn't gone through a GA review, it shouldn't be rated as GA. Consequently, I downgraded. Thank you for your dedication Deucalionite. We need more members as active as you are.--Yannismarou (talk) 19:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


Rate

Actress Eleni Papadaki - help is needed!

I started this article on a once celebrated Greek stage actress. I have asked a question on Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities about the circumstances of her murder.

I was curious about Eleni Papadaki based on a mention in a documentary on Maria Callas, but I am unable to improve it as all sources appear to be either in Greek or unavailable to me (and most are probably both). There is a richly illustrated page here that looks a bit promising, but I can't really tell what it is (even Babelfish stumbles on the code and flash junk in that page). I am sure there is much more in print. Olaus (talk) 10:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

for the greek sites try using http://babelfish.altavista.com/. you can translate blocks of text. Grk1011 (talk) 13:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Museums

HI there. I;ve recently botted articles on Category:Museums in Greece and Category:Museums in Athens. Any help anybody can give to develop some of them would be great -I'm afraid they are a bit lacking at present, but at least they are started ready for development. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 18:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Abecedar

Major false information in the article. The FYROM user that seemed to have worked in the article has misqouted sources. I reverted one, but there are still major POV going on with statements like "The Republic of Macedonia argues it demonstrated a separate Macedonian language and people existed in northern Greece in 1925, and the Greek government recognized it as such" - FYROM a country in 1925? Certianly news to me. Chaldean (talk) 23:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Need Greek

Need Greek spelling at Askomandoura. Badagnani (talk) 17:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Found it. Badagnani (talk) 17:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Proposed Merger Gynaeceum and Gynaeconitis

I proposed a merger of Gynaeceum and Gynaeconitis, as they are just synonyms. Discuss here --Mdebets (talk) 10:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Rfc: Template talk:Greek Royal Family

I have initiated a Wikipedia: Request for comment about whether King Constantine should be referred to on this template as "HM King Constantine II" or as "HM The King of Greece". This is not intended to be a general discussion about Greek politics, but rather a discussion about how one man is commonly referred to in English-language publications. Noel S McFerran (talk) 19:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Updated Showcase

Just so that everyone knows, I updated the FA, GA, and DYK lists. However, the DYK list shows a red link for the Cretan War (1645-1669) and was wondering if anyone could fix this problem. Thanks. Deucalionite (talk) 16:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

need help please

greetings, this controversial image Image:AncientPhonecian.jpg clearly represents a Minoan woman, it was shot at Akrotiri, why then is it linked to Phoenicia? need expert opinion if anyone can help. ;) Eli+ 22:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Because the people who researched and published the book "Phoenicians: Lebanon's Epic Heritage" disagree with your controversial opinion to the extend that they feature it on the front cover of their book.[8] That is why it is linked to Phoenicia. ;} - Gennarous (talk) 22:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Naming

I've been looking at around a a few articles in the project and it seems like when the names are translated, they use the latin transliteration. Does anyone have a problem with me changing these names (of course the ones that arent known by their latin names) to their correct transliteration? Here's an example: Eudokia. It says the "Greek name Eudokia". The name is Evdokia. Same with Euphrosyne, i want to change that to Efrosini. Grk1011 (talk) 21:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

There is more than one "correct transliteration". The Wikipedia convention is that common usage outranks what might you might deem proper. A quick search on Google book search reveals that "Eudokia Makrembolitissa" has 125 hits and "Evdokia Makrembolitissa" has 1 hit (for a Turkish book!) A similar result occurs if you search for Eudokia/Evdokia with Justinian. Renaming these pages would, I think, be going against Wikipedia naming conventions. Clearly most people searching for this person will be looking for Eudokia (or Eudocia). Likewise for Euphrosyne. Singinglemon (talk) 15:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Well I consider the "correct" transliteration to be the one that uses the latin alphabet, but when said, sounds nearly the same as it would if you read the Greek. I'll just leave them, it causes too much controversy with people who think that they know the greek alphabet, yet actually they know the ancient greek alphabet which pronounces words differently. Grk1011 (talk) 15:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

This may be answered elsewhere but there is some confusion about how the name of Γιάννης Παπαιουάννου the rebetika musician should be transliterated. There is a page for him as Ioannis Papaioannou. There is also a Yiannis Papaioannou who is also a musician but classically trained. There were dead links on the [rebetika]] page which referred to the rebetika musician as Giannis Papaiouannou which seems to be the more correct transliteration of the Greek "Γ" to Latin "G". What do we do? Skopelos-Slim (talk) 09:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Greek diaspora

Can we reach a consensus about the sources (i mean do we count greeks by heritage but with native passport or do we stay with the numbers of their respective countries who count only the Greeks who weren't born there) and then start double-check the numbers? --Ioannes Tzimiskes (talk) 09:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the numbers are based on the amount of people that say they are of Greek descent on the country's census. Kyriakos (talk) 10:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Well there's two different ways of being Greek. It can be your ethnicity meaning you might have a greek last name and greek blood, or it can be your nationality meaning that you have a greek passport, buy may not have any greek blood (immigrants). I know that in the US census, it counts people who put it as their decent, but there are some who believe that a passport makes them greek (not really, they could be 100% chinese for example). Just put what the census says. Grk1011 (talk) 13:28, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Alexander the Great

The situation in this article is out of control. Seemingly new (?) users keep popping up and remove the the "ancient Greek" [[9]] from the intro, even though it is well sourced. This may be part of an organized off-Wiki campaign as it seems strange that two users with exactly the same interest materialize out of nowhere and make exactly the same edits (User:Alekishere and User:ilidio.martins. Something clearly needs to be done as this has been going on for months and shows no sign of abating (protect the artice?). --Tsourkpk (talk) 20:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

If they are only touhing 'ancient Greek' then I think it is nationlist POV. The best way to del with it would be to get someone to protect the page. Kyriakos (talk) 22:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


Language and style used in "WikiProject Greece" articles

I've tried to correct some articles so that they don't sound like Greek directly translated into English. I'm quite new to Wikipedia but I've observed that many articles within the Wikiproject Greece are written as if they have been directly translated from the Greek language. Wouldn't it be a good idea to use something like a Peer review (correct me if I'm wrong) so that native English speakers or professional users of English read the article before it becomes published? The quality of an article is not only assessed by the information it provides but also by its style and correctness. Articles about Greece (obviously written by Greeks) tend to be written in a very complicated way, with long sentences and words that would rarely be used by a native speaker... Pel thal (talk) 07:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)