Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ghost towns

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[edit] A good website for ghost town info

[edit] Support

  • I definitely support this project and am very interested in documenting our many extinct towns and villages. As has been discussed elsewhere, there's less than full agreement about what constitutes a ghost town, so the terminology may need more discussion to reach consensus. I, though, am fine with calling any town a ghost town that once existed and now doesn't. --Huwmanbeing 17:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
  • As am I. Perhaps we can reach consensus here. A mcmurray 18:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
    • I need to get the supporters to sign on here and on the proposal page. Then we can get a permanent presence on here. A mcmurray 01:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm in. Yes, we need to work out the definition, as in Oregon we also have Category:Defunct cities in Oregon, which seems to be for places that have been completely absorbed into other cites, or as in the case of Vanport, Oregon, washed away. Which reminds me, Bayocean, Oregon is an interesting story... [1] Katr67 13:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Cool link, I love the old photos. Also, thinking of terminology, "extinct town" is one possibility to kick around. It's a fairly broad term I've applied elsewhere to describe towns that for a variety of reasons no longer exist, have been abandoned, have become defunct, etc. One point in its favor is that it doesn't imply "abandoned but still extant structures", which some consider the mark of a true ghost town. Just a thought! BTW, Warrenton, Indiana (my county's original seat) is one long-lost town I've been researching lately -- I thought the bit about the whiskey was interesting... --Huwmanbeing 17:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Which brings us back around to an earlier point. The difference between ghost town and defunct town/city. As I thought, Katr67 also thinks that defunct city implies that the community has been absorbed into another city. I say we go for consensus on that definition. A mcmurray 17:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I'll alert EngineerScotty to this discussion. I think he's the one who created the defunct city cat... Katr67 18:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
    • I didn't have anything more specific in mind than "cities which no longer exist". The includes several former cities which were merged into a larger city; at least one which was destroyed (Vanport); one which was disincorporated by the court (Rajneeshpuram), etc. Oregon has a few other interesting cases, such as Valsetz, Oregon--a company town from which everyone was evicted when a mill went out of business (the town was subsequently demolished), a few classical "ghost towns" (communities which were more or less abandoned when their economic wellspring dried up for whatever reason), etc. I'm not an authority on the subject, I should note. --EngineerScotty 19:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How close are we?

The proposed project has the support of four editors, including myself. Ideally we need at least 5 or six, as those are the guidelines per wikipedia for a consensus, otherwise nothing we decided would have sticking power. I am working on solidifying some templates, which I will post on the main page here for now, anyone who wants to can start adding them to articles in the Ghost towns cats. That will probably help recruit others, and if Katr67's enthusiasm is any indication, the userboxes are going to be a big hit. A mcmurray 18:48, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Way too many stub stypes!

The guidelines for stubs call for at least 60 existing articles for new stub types, with an exception being made for the first stub of a WikiProject, where the bar is lowered to 30. Keep in mind that by using stubs instead of some other method of you are asking others outside your project (and the members of WikiProject Stub Sorting in particular) to help you out. The stub sorters need to keep the total number of stub types to a manageable level which is why they have minimum size guidelines. Also there are the stub type naming guidelines which your stub templates do not follow. These stubs will be heading to SFD in about a week for either deletion or renaming. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:03, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New page

A new page, mostly copied from the NRHP project. Also anyone know how to add assessment capability to the talk page ghost town templates. That would be good. Also perhaps adding the scale and some other info on assessment to the main page, I don't know much about it personally and if it's not a stub I usually leave that kind of stuff to other project memebers.

If anyone sees anyway to improve the page go ahead. Be bold.

For now we need to tag existing articles which will help with exposure, as well, of course, as writing new articles, there are countless ghost towns. Maybe some lists may help in the near future. Anyway. Happy Editing and special thanks to the NRHP Project and its members.A mcmurray 01:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, how do we make it so when a page is tagged it gives the talk page a category within our project, say in Category:Ghost towns in the United States?A mcmurray 06:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I figured this out.A mcmurray 04:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Azerbaijan

Azerbaijan has a couple of Ghost towns as Shusha, Agdam, Khojaly etc all due war with Armenia. It also has the largest ghost tonw in the world - Agdam, a city of 150,000 people but now nothing, thats gotta be a record! We need to get this information in this article!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.146.213.29 (talk) 14:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

Only Agdam is listed in the article as being a ghost town, and that article has a dispute tag on it. Is there a standard of how _long_ a place must be abandoned to qualify? 13 years doesn't seem like a permanent abandonment. Chris 15:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your name and scope

I just tagged Wittenoom, Western Australia with your WikiProject tag. Then someone pointed out to me that this project is for ghost towns in the United States. Once I'd quietly and calmly explained to the walls of my office my opinion of america-centric cultural imperialism and what-not, I decided that I ought to come here and point out that Wikipedia is an international project, and as such, your project name does not match your project scope. You should either rescope the project to include all ghost towns everywhere, or rename the project to "WikiProject US ghost towns". Hesperian 02:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Responded here. I am going to go with rename, unless someone objects in the next ten minutes IvoShandor 11:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the civil response to the not-so-civil message. ;-) Hesperian 12:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
For anyone who dosnt understand - he is quite a nice guy - I have met him and can vouch for him - he has tagged some articles that I wrote for ghost towns in Tasmania . Oh and thanks from another Australian for widening the scope - we have quite a few in this country... SatuSuro 12:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sofala, New South Wales

I was rather surprised to see a wikiproject ghost towns box added to Talk:Sofala, New South Wales. As I've noted on that talk page, the town is not a ghost town. It has never been abandoned. Please discuss on that talk page rather than here. --Athol Mullen 22:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Resolved. Hesperian 05:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment banner templates?

The project banner instructions seem to have disappeared from Wikipedia:WikiProject Ghost towns/Assessment. Could someone repost them? I posted a banner at Cherry, Arizona, but then couldn't enter the assessment. Thanks, Pete Tillman 19:01, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

BUMP. Pete Tillman 19:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
BUMP-2 Pete Tillman 14:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Finally figured out how to do this: {spl{WikiProject Ghost towns||class=stub|importance=mid}}

yields:

 This article or page is part of WikiProject Ghost towns, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of ghost towns. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Stub This article has been rated as stub-Class on the assessment scale.
Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance on the assessment scale.

Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 21:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category work

I am currently working on trying to reorganize the categories within Category:Former subdivisions of countries, which includes Category:Ghost towns. The term "ghost town" appears to be used for places all over the world, even though it is really a term only used in the United States. Moreover, I am not certain if the term "ghost town" should be used in favor of "former cities" for the United States locations as well, although if "ghost towns" were restricted to abandoned locations and if the "former cities" were for locations that were dissolved politically as well as abandoned, that may be acceptable.

Before I propose merging the "ghost towns" and "former cities" categories, what are other people's thoughts on this? At the very least, "ghost town" should only be used in locations that actually use the term (i.e. not necessarily in Europe). Dr. Submillimeter 09:57, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

We use "ghost town" in Australia too. Hesperian 11:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I see this is from last year, but I wanted to throw in a comment anyway! I've been creating articles on some of the extinct towns in my area (the American Midwest) and have been categorizing them as "ghost towns". This seems a little misleading, though, since as I understand it a ghost town is an abandoned settlement — one that is devoid of people but still has some remaining physical vestige. However: Many of the communities I document are completely gone and nothing at all remains of them. Are these ghost towns? Personally I wouldn't call them that; moreover I've never heard anyone apply the term to any of the no-longer-extant towns in my area. Another point is that some of these towns no longer exist as towns, but there are still people who live in and around the site where it once existed, so calling the site a "ghost town" again seems inappropriate.
For my own part, I prefer the term "extinct town" since it's broader and doesn't carry any connotations about the current state of the community. It simply identifies a town that once existed but no longer does. Huwmanbeing ☀★ 17:05, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I've created articles at those two "extremes"; one where people, albeit not many, still live (Adamana, Arizona) and one where almost nothing remains (Piedmont, Arizona). I think for the purposes of this project, these can be defined as ghost towns. In fact, there are several "ghost towns", such as Bodie, California, that have a thriving tourism industry. SaintJimmy505 (talk) 01:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Definition

What is a "ghost town"? The dictionary definition stipulates "significant desertion," yet the project description includes "defunct" towns – such as those that have been absorbed. If it's been absorbed, I hardly see how it might qualify as "deserted." It seems to me that, while all ghost towns are "defunct," I don't think it's fair to say that all defunct towns are "ghost towns."

Next – what is a "town" for the purposes of this project? Would a former Native American village site count as a "ghost town"? Or are we sticking with the European definition of "town?"

The (unsourced) article Ghost town indicates that no structures need be present. If that's the case, then it would appear that any archeological site involving human habitation (as opposed to a battlefield) might qualify as a "ghost town", too.

To answer these questions, we might want to start from the bottom up. What would a visitor to this encyclopedia want to know about "ghost towns?" Does this project define "ghost town" in the same way as the typical visitor? How will the "ghost town" category be useful to a visitor? That is, does the visitor find the information he or she would expect when clicking on such a category link?

The answer to these questions, I think, would be to stick as closely as possible to the dictionary definition of "ghost town" rather than take a broader view not supported by common usage. Rklawton 21:54, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This project has been spectacularly inactive Robert. I tried to get people to discuss it when this started, instead people were content to complain on article talk pages and not come here at suggestions, which is fine, whatever. It seems to me that ghost town has a traditional definition, regardless of the unreferenced article ghost town. Honestly I don't really have the time to trifle over something so insignificant in the scheme of things, so I gave it up long ago. I proposed that anywhere that was a town, village or settlement with less than 5 people, including places of which no trace exists, be deemed a ghost town or defunct town or however its going to be categorized, but I never got enough input here to gain consensus on a definition or categorization scheme, so honestly, I am not quite sure how to approach it. IvoShandor 21:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Calumet, Colorado

Aside from supposedly being the setting for Red Dawn this ghost town is hard to find - updated atlases don't mention it, and the only information I can find on it is that it was a source of epidote: [2], and the location: [3]. Is this sufficient enough for it to merit an article? -WarthogDemon 22:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm . . . since this seems to be inactive, I suppose I'll be bold and see what happens. -WarthogDemon 22:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
I am very active, but this project could be more so, but I am around, and much more experienced than I was when this project started. Go for it, I wouldn't mind seeing the end result if you could post it here. IvoShandor 00:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I've went and added as much as I could. :) It's at Calumet, Colorado. I also asked over at the Colorado wikiproject if any of them would be able to help with it. I myself will try to look for more sources and information later. -WarthogDemon 00:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Cool, nice job researching so far, these places can be quite obscure. Just a note, the sentence about Red Dawn probably needs to be clarified a bit, what do you mean by "setting behind"? (That is a sentence that might do well with citation too. IvoShandor 00:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
That should be "of" not "behind." Poor word choice. Calumet is mentioned on the Red Dawn article but I'll check imdb.com; it'll probably mention it in trivia. -WarthogDemon 00:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
IMDB.com doesn't explicitly say it and the other sites think Calumet doesn't exist. :P Should it still have a citation? And if so, would an interwiki reference be acceptable? -WarthogDemon 00:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

(unindent)Much clearer now, thanks. Hmm, well the only part I was concerned about was the "Although it was not filmed here," I assume they say that's it Calumet in the movie so that's probably fine and doesn't need a citation but the other part probably does need an external source I would say, I mean anything would work, a DVD special feature or behind the scenes show or review, whatever. IvoShandor 00:55, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYKs

There's no explanation of what goes in the Did you know?s section. My articles Kelton, Utah and Ajax, Utah have both made it to DYK. Do I just put in links, or copy the DYK hooks here? Ntsimp (talk) 17:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

No response so far, so I was bold and copied the hooks, with the DYK dates in parentheses. Ntsimp (talk) 15:30, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

Please tell me this project's not dead. I'm having so much fun with it. The last few days I did a major assessment push, assessing almost all the articles in Category:Ghost towns in the United States. It looks like most of what's left at Category:Unassessed Ghost town articles is in Australia, which I'm probably not qualified to assess. I would like to put out a request for the few unassessed articles at Category:Ghost towns in Utah, which I left unassessed mainly due to conflict of interest concerns, since I've edited them. If anyone is there, could you please assess these few articles? It's really a quick job. Thanks! Ntsimp (talk) 16:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for working to get the ghost town articles assessed! I don't think the project's dead, though as with most projects there are busy periods and slow periods. Lately I've been trying to expand articles on a few of the extinct towns in my area, and I know there's been some activity in other regions too. Huwmanbeing ☀★ 16:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been working on articles for ghost towns in the southwestern United States, especially Arizona. I really hope this project sticks, since I have just found it and am having a lot of fun with it. This is an interesting subject.SaintJimmy505 (talk) 01:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I think a lot of folks just kind of work on their own, I see ghost town articles every once in awhile. I set up the project a long time ago and my ghost town production went down, I still manage one every once in awhile. They basically fall from my interest in history, I come across a lot of red links, or potential red links through my research. Anyway, thanks to every one who has kept this going. The more interest people show the more things will pick up I guess, and Huwmanbeing said I think all projects go through up and down periods (you should have seen it when it first started, I didn't even realize it was live for awhile). IvoShandor (talk) 23:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New York to Tennessee road trip

So I'm going to be going on a road trip from Long Island, NY to Nashville, TN making one planned stop in Centralia, PA. We're going to be spending the majority of our trip going down I-81 through Virginia. Are there any interesting ghost towns along the way that aren't too far out of the way. An alternate route might be this one, which may be a bit more interesting. I'll be taking lots of photos, so are there any articles that need some photos? ;) -- MacAddct  1984 (talk • contribs) 04:55, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I live near Centralia, and it is very interesting. It will be worth the stop. SaintJimmy505 (talk) 01:43, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Elkhorn, Montana

Well, I just finished (mostly) my first article on Elkhorn, Montana. Sorry if I've completely mangled the format or anything, but Elkhorn was one of my favorite places to go when I was a kid so I couldn't help but write the article for it. Please, let me know if there are any improvements I could make. Additionally, I'd be thrilled to find out more about the people that continue to live in Elkhorn. At my last visit to Elkhorn (January '07), I saw a couple trucks and a lot of cabins that were somewhere in between collapsing and being refurbished. (Not to mention, a dog that was so unafraid of/unused to cars I had to get out and lure him off the road with beef jerky) It would be interesting to see whether there's any sort of community there or just two or three ghost town hermits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hurfledurfle (talk • contribs) 02:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

A couple of my articles have recently had their talk pages tagged as needing an infobox. We still don't have one, right? There was discussion about this last year here, but did anything come of it? I haven't got the wiki-fu to make such a thing, but it would be really really nice to have. Any takers? Ntsimp (talk) 15:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)