Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/National teams

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Contents

[edit] Confederation Cup Record

II suggest to add it.

[edit] Jerseys / Colors

I propose adding another section called Jerseys or Colours, which discusses some of the jersey colour choices (e.g. Italy's blue). This is similar to the Colours section for Club teams. Chanheigeorge 01:05, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Referencing templates

I've created Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/National teams/Referencing templates to keep track of all referencing templates to national football teams, including historical differences.

[edit] Regional Flags

I've added regional/state flags to players of various nations (like hockey national teams pages, see this or this). You can see Brazil page or Italy page. D'you think it's a good idea? For foreigner players I've search where their fathers were born (or their parents with that nationality, eg.: Mauro Camoranesi is Italian because his grandfather came from Marches...so he has the Marches flag; another case is Kevin Kuranyi) or where they estabilishes with their families (eg: most of the French players came to France estabilishing in Paris suburbs). Let me know if you think this is a good method, or if there are betters; and maybe if there are errors on the flags. I've added regional/state flags to the squad of these national teams: Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Spain. --necronudist 14:12, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally I don't like it, I feel that it is info that should be included in the player's article and not in the article for the national team, but that's just my opinion. -- Elisson • Talk 15:07, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeh I agree, it is irrelavant to the national team article, and serves only as trivia, that clutters up the page. Philc TECI 10:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I would like to add that we should remove the flags from all the rosters, for consistency.--Panairjdde 08:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National squad lists

I have created a set of templates, Template:Nat fs start, Template:Nat fs player and Template:Nat fs end, to mimic Template:Football squad player &c. for application to the Category:Football tournament squads pages. They have been applied on Football World Cup 1978 (squads) and Football World Cup 1982 (squads) already, and I'll aim to extend this formatting to other squad lists in due course. Any interested party is most welcome to improve the templates and/or extend its use to other squad lists and/or identify more squad lists under the aforementioned category for the same purpose. User:Pkchan/National squad re-formatting may be useful to those who uses regular expression to perform the re-formatting. --Pkchan 04:22, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

How about adding a flag as reference to the club's nation? --Angelo 03:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Like this? Note that the clubflag field is optional.
I am split between whether to include the flag before or after the club name. On one hand displaying it before would make the whole list aligned nicely. On the other hand the convention of the tournment squads (eg 2002 FIFA World Cup (squads) is to show club's nation only if it is not that of the national team's, and showing it after would be more in line with this convention. What do you think? --Pkchan 11:41, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion the best would be <squad_crest> <squad_name> (<squad_nat>), the more complete and stylish. However, the flag should be on the right of the name, I think. --necronudist 13:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Club crests should not be used for decoration, as they are all (almost all, at least) only available under fair use. – Elisson • Talk 14:51, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we should provide just the club's nation flag, regardless any sort of copyright issue about the club crests. I guess that showing crests on the club field is quite unaesthetic. About the convention, I think we should always implement the country field. What about that? --Angelo 01:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
See this page for a mock-up of the national team template with the flag of nation of all clubs shown. Note that I have renamed the parameter as clubnat to avoid ambiguity.
If you lot think fit I'll implement it at {{Nat fs player}} and {{Nat fs g player}}. --Pkchan 03:34, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Looks good! --necronudist 09:40, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Templated Squads

He there. I though of changing the current scheme of having an article with all the squads by templates that can be included in that very same article, but can also be used at say, the national team, and a posible 'list of World Cup squads of X national team'. Please, check Argentine squad for the 2006 FIFA World Cup (used as an example at 2006 FIFA World Cup (squads)/Templated), and the talk pages at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#The World Cup in other languages in Wikipedia and Talk:2006 FIFA World Cup (squads)#Consistency. Mariano(t/c) 14:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Given the lack of interest for the creation of squad templates to allow cross articles' consistency, I will delete the articles I created for illustrative purposes. Mariano(t/c) 08:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Performance in 2006 World Cup

There is a movement to add a sort of match-by-match description of the performance of each team partecipating to WC2006.

I think that this is a bad idea, and I suggest moving these sections to their own page, if necessary. In any case, for sake of consistency, this kind of information should be removed from the articles about each national football team. --Panairjdde 17:13, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's best off if a "current events" flag was added to the article under the respective team's play history in each respective article (The Mexico article is a good example of such formatting). The information provided should be minimal (meaning no nasty tidbits), only showing the final score, major incidents during the game and perhaps (a bit hesitant about this one) their next opponent. And finally, after the world cup 2006 series has ended, remove the current events flag, remove the match-by-match report and make the permanent section as necessary under 2006. Because despite sake of consistency for all articles, such current information does have the merit of providing readers with useful information DURING the series.
See the England article (to show I'm not only being fussy about other teams) and the Korea article.--Sazabel 20:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] International Caps

Does anyone have a source we can use with up to date international goal/caps per national team or even per player? // Laughing Man 03:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I use 2006 World Cup website [1] for the players caps at the end of the competitions and I added them with recent matches that they played. Another website that is good is RSSSF (The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation) [2]. Also there are several individual website dedicated to each national team such as [3] for England, [[4] for Italy and many others. - Martin tamb 04:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] recent call up section

Who dislikes the recent call up section. Kingjeff 18:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Some context here: Kingjeff is calling for the removal of the 'recent call ups' section from the England national football team, as a result of its removal from the Germany national football team. I pointed out that given there were no guidelines at places such as this, using one page as an analogy for the other was pointless.
Anyway, I cannot comment on the German one, but the English one serves to list those players who have been called up the an England squad over the last 12 months, but were not in the latest. It informs the user of those players who are in the 'wider squad', or who have had injuries or a drop in form that has kept them out of the latest squad (which is listed seperatly). It contains no duplication, as Kingjeff has claimed; just further information. --Robdurbar 19:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

you wanted it here, so now it is here. How about you become civilized and let others express what they think? Kingjeff 21:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Personally I think the section was a bit messy, but I think the section should be retained. Maybe some cleanup on the section by deleting players that already retired or retired from international football. Or maybe deleting the players that has not been called up since World Cup as they could be easily accessed by the reader from the World Cup Squads link/section under the Recent call-up section. Another option maybe by deleting the last call-up time but retaining the players, this will make the table looks easier to read. Or maybe merging all the players from Current squad and Recent call-up section and bold the players name that are currently in squad, but this options would make the list far longer. - Martin tamb 04:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Some good points. I believe that up till August 2006 the recent call ups and latest squad were together as one; I'm not sure why they were split, though I seem to recall that there was a reason. At the moment, offically reitred players are deleted (if you're thinking of David Beckham, he's not retired internaitonally. But Sol Campbell has, and he's not there). --Robdurbar 09:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the talk here, here and here are relevant; as they indicate how the section was formulated (on the English page at least). Robdurbar 09:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I referring the retired players to Zinedine Zidane (in France national football team page) and several others players in various national team page. As for England national football team, I personally think that the layout seems confusing with the addition of debut column. It makes the table looks complicated. I prefer the layout used in Italy national football team, France national football team, etc. -- Martin tamb 09:43, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that is good. Robdurbar 12:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Full teams only?

Many of the international teams pages contain a lot of data about acheivements of U23, U21 and younger national selections. Additionally, there are many tournaments (Olympics, Pan-American games) that are only for age restricted sides. Some countries have pages for their "junior" teams, many do not. I think this cries out for a more consistent approach. My preference would be that only the acheivements of the full team should be recorded on the articles in this "family", and that any nation whose underage teams have a suignificant record should have such a page specific to that purpose. Anyone else? Kevin McE 13:11, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree. There already seems to be some sort of undiscussed consensus that under-20 (or under-21 in Europe) teams are allowed to have separate pages and thus all such info should go there. Younger teams than that, I'm not sure it is notable enough to include anything at all about them, except for the info already present in youth tournament articles. The problem is the later Olympic tournaments, as the teams playing there really do not compete anywhere else. I think it is ok to have the Olympic record in the main article, with a note explaining the Olympic football team composition rules. – Elisson • T • C • 13:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
(after edit conflict) Sounds sensible, though the Olympics are slightly more complex, as they used to be more prestigious than they are now and were not age restricted. Oldelpaso 13:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
The Olympics football tournament has not been open to full national teams from Europe and South America for more than 70 years, and has been unrestricted for other countries for only 2 editions in that period. To be equitable, this cannot be a matter of occasional edits to particular pages; there needs to be a consensus as to whether and how Olympic acheivements should be shown on nft pages: my opinion is that only unrestricted selection events (1936 and before, + 1984 and 1988 for non UEFA/CONCACAF countries) should be included, and a footnote should be available to explain the absence of the record of this acheivement where there have been medals won in restricted years. I suspect that this would be more easily acheived if Olympic records were to be included in the infobox, rather than in a separate medal box. Kevin McE 23:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current squads and recent call ups

I am prompted to raise a query by the situation at Republic of Ireland where, until recently, 45 players were listed as being in the current squad: this at a time immediately before 2 international matches when there was a group of c. 25 at a national team gathering. Does it actually make any sense to describe anybody as being in a "current" squad when the next match is several weeks away, and the issue of what players might be selected is a matter of speculation? Is the "current" squad actually encyclopedic, or is it recentism to want to list it? Are recent (but not current) call ups any more notable than those who were in the squad in 1984 (to pick a year at random)? Kevin McE 01:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Recent results/Forthcoming Fixtures/Recent Call Ups/Current squads etc etc etc WP:Recentism seems to be running unchecked on these pages. Kevin McE 19:01, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biggest win/defeat

Hi! Unaware of this 'standard' template I made an edit to Portugal national football team] differentiating them by friendly/competitive matches. I did the same for the 1st international match. User:Martin tamb called my attention to this so I'll take it here. I suggest that when the largest win/loss is in a friendly match then the largest one at a competitive match is also included. A friendly is rather different from competitive matches, and making history/statistics including them may skew it, and weaken their value. As to including the first competitive match, I would do it, but I think it is much less important than the previous. It may be the opposite, really. It might be a more important info to know which other team was chosen - and chose - to play a friendly with. On a side note, looking at the template I a see a 'trivia' section, so I also suggest that it is excluded, according to Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles. Enjoy! - Nabla 15:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  • I believe that, that a "friendly" is only a customary name for a match which is not part of a full "tournament". An international game is the same if it is the final of the world cup, or a match between the 2 worst teams in the world playing for nothing. The fact that goals and caps won in "friendlies" are counted seems to support this idea. As well as that, even "B" Class internationals (which often had top level club sides for example Manchester United vs Australia and were popular in the 80's) are included in the players for the international team goal and cap tallies. Macktheknifeau 14:44, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I would seriously doubt your claim that appearances in B internationals and in games against non-international teams are counted in a payer's tally of international caps. For exapmle, Steven Taylor (footballer) played for England B against Albania last month, but is not regarded as having been capped for England. Kevin McE 20:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Olympic Games

I want to ask if we are supposed to include in National teams' honours any achievement in the Olympic Games tournaments, since the teams which are contested there, are not the official national teams. - Sthenel 15:52, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to raise the same discussion above, under the heading Full teams only? but with little response. As I state their, achievements of restricted teams, IMHO, should be in articles specific to those restricted teams. (I've taken the liberty of correcting your apostrophe, as the issue affects more than one national team: blame the teacher in me) Kevin McE 18:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm confused but I think that national football team pages should include data for the full team only. - Sthenel 19:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last game and next game

Greetings! Wouldn't it be better if in the article of each national football team (apart from the first game, biggest win and largest defeat) it included the last game and the next game? What do you think? User:Cymuforsal 22:30, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Noted players

How does one decide if a player is notable, and how does one reference it? Fasach Nua (talk) 08:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)