Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Finland/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 17:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 21:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Nordic / Scandinavian task force on WikiProject military history?

It has been proposed on WikiProject military history to set up an either Nordic or Scandinavian task force. If you are intrested in this topic, please comment on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Two_task_force_ideas. Cheers. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 10:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Flag

You guys are aware of the fact that the flag currently displayed on the project page is the Icelandic flag and not the Finnish one, right?--Carabinieri 16:39, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

So I forgot to change it when I copied over the page. I do that a lot. Fixed now. Sorry about that. Badbilltucker 16:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Problem with the Template:WPFinland sidebar

I've created the sidebar above, but any time I include it it automatically restricts the "type range" of everything below it to it's own size. If anyone knows how to fix this, please feel free to do so. Badbilltucker 23:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. The markup looked alright, so I tried closing another DIV tag and that seems to have done it. Thanks for creating the template. Prolog 09:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposal for Project Page Additions

Hello! I'm interested in joining the project, but I couldn't bring myself to signing under the Project organisation header. So I would like to propose a few changes to the Project Page.

The first change I would like to see would be the renaming of Project organisation to Participants, and also changes to the structure of it. Here is an example:

Participants

This is a list of Wikipedians who are committed to this WikiProject. If you're interested in helping with this project, please feel free to add your name at the bottom of the list with four tildes (~~~~), with an optional comment.

  • Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC) - currently adding missing Finnish films and actors and directors to wikipedia
  • Thereen 07:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC) - currently tagging articles for the project.


I find that the current Project organisation is good, but a bit too specific (sorted into Sports, Bio, Arts, etc.).

The second thing I would like to see would be a more prominent userbox section, which could help to entice casual passers-by. Again I have an example:

Userboxes

Userboxes
{{Template:User WPFinnish}}
This user is a member of WikiProject Finland
{{User:Thereen/Userboxes/WPFinland}}
This user is a member of WikiProject Finland.

Thank you for your time, any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thereen 07:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey. There was a Participants section but it was moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject Finland/Members. I have included this in the main project page as a transclusion now, since it currently does not take much space. Your userbox looks good. Feel free to add the Userboxes section and make bold changes to the project page. Prolog 08:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

project finland banner

do we have a banner that can be placed on each article stating that the page is part of wikifin?Razor romance 17:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC) sorry found it. Im blindRazor romance 17:31, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

If you are also interested in assessing articles, you might want to see the assessment department. The current statistics for progress, updated every day, can be seen at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Finland articles by quality statistics. Prolog 20:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Navigation boxes in Finnish railway station articles

How should we do the "previous - next" navigation boxes in articles about Finnish railway stations? For the VR commuter rail network, it is easy: simply treat Helsinki Central railway station as the heart, and have one box for each route, or group of routes, having the same previous and next station and this one.

But long distance trains pose a huge problem. The long distance railway network in Finland (see List of railway lines in Finland) is much more interconnected and decentralised than the VR commuter rail network. How should we mark each box? With the ultimate endpoints (Helsinki and Kolari in the best case)? This would create a problem when deciding which stations are more important than which. Or should we do it like the Finnish Wikipedia appears to do, by only marking one individual, nonambiguous piece of track at a time? For example, the track from Helsinki to Riihimäki is a straight line with no forks. From Riihimäki it then forks to Tampere and other directions. And how to decide which way the routes go? Automatically treating central stations in large cities as starting points and minor stations in surrounding municipalities as ending points can lead to collisions between two major cities, such as between Helsinki and Turku. Should we decide "it begins in the south" or "it begins in Helsinki"? JIP | Talk 19:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Finland Portal

Portal:Finland is dead. Should we revive it or send it to WP:MFD? --KFP (talk | contribs) 20:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I say Revive, could be a good project for our WikiProject. Thereen 07:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Most of the country-specific portals seem to be more or less dead. I agree with the above; we should improve it. Prolog 11:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Bilateral relations discussion

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:36, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

wiki info swap propsal

i thought that mabey we could get into contact with the outher wiki users in foreign languages and swap info about related articles, but i dont know if there is a protocal for this and i can only speak english. so is this something we should attempt or not?Razor romance 14:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Frigg (band)

Could someone add a discography to the Frigg (band) article, please. (And anything else you think is needed.) I would but I don't speak Finnish and don't want to screw it up. Thanks, Dismas|(talk) 04:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Infobox for Finnish cities

Hi all! Would you agree that the infoboxes of Finnish cities should be unified somewhat using a flexible template such as Template:Infobox City? As it stands, the infoboxes of several major cities of Finland are represented without templates using static markup instead. Big no-no. –Zinjixmaggir 17:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I can't see why the current infobox should be changed. It fits perfectly for its purpose, the same design is used in the Finnish Wikipedia, and it looks a lot better than most of the infoboxes I've encountered. If the static markup is a problem, then we can certainly convert it into a template. Maybe make two versions, one for Finnish cities (Template:Infobox Finnish City) and the other for Finnish municipalities (Template:Infobox Finnish Municipality). --ざくら木 17:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
There is no need for a separate template for Finnish cities. Zinjixmaggir is correct that all the related articles need to be updated with {{Infobox City}}. I would also claim that the markup from the Finnish Wikipedia looks a lot worse than the standard city template here. Prolog 17:46, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
No, we need some extra information on Finnish cities. Finland-related things as whether the city is bilingual, what province it is in, region, sub-region etc. We should use a template instead of the code, but we need own template as German Bundeslands etc have, with Finnish information. --Pudeo (Talk) 21:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, there is always need for extra parameters when discussing widely used templates like this one. If we do have a template of our own, it should be based on the markup of Infobox City, so that at least the layout matches most of the non-Finnish cities. Prolog 06:59, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Prolog, about the edits you made in Espoo, please do not change the infobox until we have reached a consensus on what to do.
I still think Template:Infobox City is not the best option when it comes to representing Finnish cities. The current infobox should be kept the way it is because frankly, having oodles of infoboxes that more or less resemble each other closely will only make Wikipedia a duller encyclopedia. The current infobox is lively, packed with relevant information and makes even short articles interesting.
Also, we should be thinking of Finnish cities and municipalities as a whole, for the simple reason that they are equal sub-national entities. With a population of a little over 230,000 Espoo may be a "city," but if we want the infoboxes of Finnish municipalities to have a uniform look, then, even when it comes to Finnish cities, we should respect the current style that was originally established in WP:INFOBOX. --ざくら木 14:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I think that as an encyclopedia we need to have a consistent layout, even if it is "dull" to some. The reader should be able to navigate through cities from different countries and find the information they are looking for in the approximately same place, without having to adjust to all the different template layouts. I don't object to keeping all the information and having separate templates if necessary. Prolog 11:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
The current system isnt as good as the infobox template in my opinion. Ofcourse the best option would be that someone ould make a new template specifically designed for finnish cities and municipalities (I think two versions one for both would be ideal). The current system has many bad sides, worst in my opinion being the map and the lack of "skyline" picture. English wikipedia isnt ment to serve finns primaly, but foreigners who might not be able to situate the current map correctly to northern europe. Infobox city templates map is much much better. The skyline picture also gives an instant image of the city/municipality. Jontts 20.06, 25 May 2007
I don't think we have skyline pictures on many cities / municipalities. Perhaps few, and I believe it's impossible to take such shot from a smaller municipality. --Pudeo (Talk) 20:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
That's one of the reasons why I think there should be two different templates; one for cities and one for municipalities. There dosent have to be a skyline picture if that sortoff picture isnt available. Im sure that From Finland's biggest cities these sortoff pictures will easily be taken if they dont already exist. Jontts 15.13, 26 May 2007

I think they're very fine what Jonnts added. There were some flaws that I suggest we fix, as I already did to Oulu.

  1. If municipality is unilingual, don't add the language which isn't official. Eg. don't put Uleåborgs stad to Oulu. If bilingual, add majority language first.
  2. Replace Municipality with [[Sub-regions of Finland|Sub-region]]
  3. Add official languages with |blank_name =[[Languages of Finland|Official languages]] |blank_info =[[Finnish language|Finnish]] to the end as in Oulu.

You can add any fields you like with the blank_name. I will be correcting the ones Jonnts already added. PS. don't wikiling City managers, they rarely even would be notable, if we even got enough information to write from. (expection perhaps in Helsinki) --Pudeo (Talk) 18:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Sources! Sources! Sources!

Some assistance in finding sources would be appreciated. Surely the history and cultural significance of these things has been documented in print somewhere! Uncle G 23:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

There is an assessment drive going on at Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Assessment/Assessment Drive, encompassing all Unassessed biography articles on Wikipedia. This is an immense task, any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Seeing this Assessment Drive made me realise that our own Project is accumulating a small backlog of articles that need to be assessed (240+ at the moment). Would someone be willing to do a few of these? I'm willing to start and finish the assessment of articles 1 through K tomorrow. Thank you in advance, Thereen 07:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to start with L on Category:Unassessed-Class Finland articles. There are also lots of articles still untagged, but since I have gone through related categories randomly (2000+ articles so far), I have no idea how many articles are missing the {{WikiProject Finland}} tag. Possibly thousands, so maybe we should try to get a bot which could auto-assess stubs. That would help a bit, at least. Prolog 16:18, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Help needed

Talk:Geography of Finland. `'юзырь:mikka 06:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Bishop Henry

Hi, I am trying to get Bishop Henry on the FA level. Please be free to contribute, if you have time, thanks. --Drieakko 19:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Nominated the article now, see Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bishop Henry. --Drieakko 11:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Finnish exonyms for Åland municipalities

On the advice of Zakuragi, I'm bringing this question here. An edit war has erupted in the articles on Lemland and Kökar, where 83.102.5.106 and his/her alias Jommala (see this revision) insist on adding the Finnish exonyms "Lemlanti" and "Köökari" to the top of the article. If you'd refer to their respective talk pages (Talk:Lemland, Talk:Kökar) I've provided ample evidence that both are referred to as "Kökar" and "Lemland" in Finnish and have edited the articles to that effect. In the mean time I've been referred to as everything from "swedish vandalist" to "separatist" by Jommala and his "buddies" (see here).
My contention is that the article shouldn't start off with unofficial names that are not even in conventional modern usage, other than by perhaps Jommala him/herself. To the extent Lemland and Kökar are referred to in Finnish, it seems to me they're most commonly referred to as "Lemland" and "Kökar", respectively. Compare that with the usage of Maarianhamina for Mariehamn, which is mentioned at the top of the article. As it should be.
Please advice.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 13:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

In fairness' sake, I should probably add I might have violated WP:Civil as well.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 13:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
See also Suomi.fi which seems to be pretty unequivocal in the matter. Note "Mariehamn" being referred to as "Maarianhamina", as opposed to "Lemland" and "Kökar".
I would also refer you to Kuntaliitto.fi (Kökar) and Kuntaliitto.fi (Lemland).-- NordicStorm (t/c) 14:18, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
And to be absolutely clear, I'm not opposed to adding Finnish names for Åland municipalities (though others might be), but that's contingent on the usage of those names being conventional.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 14:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
You dont know get a point. The point is that NordicStorm, MoRSE and Silenzio has added several swedish name to finnish municipalities but they cannot give add same kind of name to swedish municipalities. And thats wrong, because Lemlanti and Köökari has knowed unofficial and old official finnish name to these place and municipalities. --Jommala 14:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I have done no such thing. And again I refer you to the sites I mention above.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 15:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
They also blame us for fennonism, but it isnt true. I think that swedish names could be in finnish placename article, but I will chance my mind if removing finnish name will continue. I have always references to my adds. --Jommala 15:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Again, my contention is that unofficial and non-conventional Finnish names should not be in those articles. If you have a problem with other articles, there's an "edit" button above them.
And being referred to as a "swedish vandal" and "separatist", in addition to your double-alias editing could have fooled me about your intentions. Just saying.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 15:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments:

  • This is an English language Wikipedia.
  • Names of places can appear in their official languages and in their English language versions.
  • Åland is monolingually Swedish.
  • Both Lemland and Kökar offer Finnish presentations of themselves, using names "Kökar" and "Lemland" in Finnish texts, respectively. See http://www.kokar.aland.fi/fin_index.html and http://www.lemland.aland.fi/.composer/upload/turistbroschyr.pdf.
  • Site "http://www.toti.eu.com/" which is used as a reference, is someone's personal www site under eu domain. It does not provide its references.
  • I have never seen "Köökari" or "Lemlanti" used in Finland in any context.
  • Therefore, I'd propose removing the misleading names, since there is no meaningful reason to keep them. --Drieakko 15:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
You are wrong...site of verbix (Verbix is an independent non-profit organization that aims to promote and protect linguistic diversity) has know both names Lemlanti and Köökari

[1], Köökari, Lemlanti. --83.102.5.106 15:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Please note that 83.102.5.106 and User:Jommala are the same user. See here.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 17:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
In what exactly I am wrong? --Drieakko 15:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
When you agreed that removing those names are right. So I would now begin to remove many swedish name if it isnt official...would I? --Jommala 15:41, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

My contention is not that they don't exist, their existence have been previously demonstrated on the talk pages mentioned above. My contention is that they are non-official and rarely, if ever, used, and, for the other reasons detailed by Drieakko above, they shouldn't be in the English-language versions of the articles.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 15:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

So you now give right to remove swedish name, thank you! --Jommala 15:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not in a position to either deny or grant you permission to do anything.-- NordicStorm

(t/c) 15:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes you do, if you or your "pals" erased unofficial finnish name so it gives me rights to remove swedish name. Its so simple. --Jommala 15:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
While your theory on "revenge editing" is interesting, it still not within my authority to grant or deny you permission to do anything.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 16:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Jommala, kindly study the behavior and actions by User:Jaakko_Sivonen. --Drieakko 15:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Sanon uudelleen suomeksi, koska englanti ei ole paras mahdollinen kieleni. Vaikka olenkin tässä tapauksessa suomenkielisten paikannimien puolesta, se ei tee todellakaan minusta fennomaania, koska kannatan ruotsinkielisten nimien näkymistä myös supisuomalaisissa paikkakunnissa. Mutta jos tarkoitus on vain yksipuolinen, jossa vain suomenkielisiä nimiä poistetaan niin silloin joudun tasapuoleisuuden nimissä myös kritisoimaan ruotsinkielisten nimien näkymistä suomalaisissa artikkeleissa. Todellakaan tässä ei ole kyse kuin parista sanasta per artikkeli, mutta jos se on liikaa ruotsalaisille, että heidän yltiöruotsalainen artikkeli tahraantuu suomenkielellä on se heidän oma ongelmansa. --Jommala 15:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
You have to use English here. --Drieakko 16:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree that much with Jommala here, but Åland was a part of Turku and Pori County before gaining autonomy, and the municipalities had Finnish names, which were sometimes used even in the 1950-1970s. For historical interest, they could be mentioned, such as Russian cities name historical Russian, Finnish and Karelia, such as Kondopoga. I think it works nicely there. Names as Köökari aren't used today, except perhaps in spoken Finnish - Lemland, Lemlantiin. I don't see that many reasons to include Ristitaipale in the lead of Korsnäs because there is a chapter on the Finnish names already. The rest is only matter of convetion, if we don't think it's necessary to mention old Finnish names on these articles, remove unofficial Masko from Masku, Ilomantsis from Ilomantsi, Östermyra from Seinäjoki and so on. --Pudeo⺮ 16:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

So, if we were to follow the example on Seinäjoki, I propose adding for for example Kökar:
Kökar was historically called Köökari in Finnish. Today, this name is rarely used even by those who are Finnish-speaking.
Would this work for everyone? -- NordicStorm (t/c) 16:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
With regards to Korsnäs, please see my proposal on the talkpage.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 16:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Fine to me in any case, though Jommala has removed a bunch of some inofficial Swedish names from some articles arlready, so I guess we remove all then? Interesting to note though, Swedish Wikipedia uses unofficial Swedish names at all cases, Seinäjoki is the only exception. Let's follow that poll then. --Pudeo⺮ 16:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The Swedes' entries might be analogous to fi:Hallanti, or indeed the work of a "svecoman", but I wouldn't know one way or the other.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 16:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

To collect opinions for and against in one location, I opened a poll below for this. --Drieakko 16:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Naming convention policy poll

Poll for naming convention policy regarding unofficial, mainly historical, Finnish and Swedish names for municipalities and other locations in Finland that today are officially known by one name only (be it Swedish or Finnish). --Drieakko 16:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Question: Is it proper for Wikipedia to give unofficial names for municipalities and other locations in Finland?

Users in favor with their reasoning:

  • conditional support, if said unofficial names are added (and qualified as historical and not currently used) as a separate sentence as opposed to in parentheses in the first sentence of the article.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 16:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
  • conditional support only if the names have been historically official and are properly referenced to have officially existed. --Drieakko 16:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
  • conditional support the use of other language names can be mentioned if they are or have been in widespread and known use. However, it should not be mentioned in the lead paragraph if it is not an official name (so not to mislead the reader about its status). Proper and valid sources should also be included. --MoRsE 17:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
  • support Unofficial Finnish and Swedish names are important. My opinion is that them should be mentioned in first sentence althougt there must be mention unofficial if it isnt official name. I suppose that its enough for readers to understand. --Jommala 17:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Users against with their reasoning:

  • (write here oppose with your reasoning)

Discussion

You are laying, bacause you only remove unofficial finnish name and then you add unofficial swedish! It makes me very angry!!! --Jommala 17:17, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Åland naming convention poll

The monolingually Swedish autonomous region of Åland has had some of its municipalities referred to with unofficial Finnish names in the past. Today, Finnish has no official status in the region. --Drieakko 17:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

There is still 5% of people of Åland who are Finns. --Jommala 20:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Question: Is it proper for Wikipedia to give unofficial Finnish names for municipalities and other locations in Åland?

Users in favor with their reasoning:

  • (support with reasoning)
  • support Same reasons like above. This query is unnecessary because this is same as first query. --Jommala 20:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Users against with their reasoning:

  • oppose As Åland is not, unlike rest of Finland, bilingual, using Finnish names in English language Wikipedia is pointless. --Drieakko 17:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
  • conditional oppose. If it is well established that said names were used to a fairly wide extent, and it is stated unequivocally that said names are historical and not in current usage and they are not placed at the top of the article immediately following the actual name so as to confuse readers, their inclusion may be warranted (Mariehamn refers to Maarianhamina, after all, though that is a well established convention). -- NordicStorm (t/c) 17:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
comment Finnish_exonyms#Finland (Suomi) may be the appropriate location for said unofficial names, with the same caveats as my vote above.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 17:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
same like list we can also use in unoffial swedish name, isnt it. They are same trash to us like finnish names are to you. --Jommala 20:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The point of this discussion is to form a consensus, or failing that, reach a compromise. You're not doing yourself any favours by continuing edit warring and using generally abusive language. I think you'll find people would be more inclined to take your opinions into consideration if you presented yourself in a less combative manner. -- NordicStorm (t/c) 21:02, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
This discussion is false, because you, MoRse and Silenzio alias Drieakko have same feeling to destroy and remove finnish nameform from Åland. You lay, lay and lay because also this polls is full of lays. Åland belong to Finland so it is same thing like above. You should not oppose this when you support in first query. Valepukit! --Jommala 21:15, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Noting you about WP:NPA. --Drieakko 09:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

They are killing Lepakko again :)

FYI: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lepakko The Merciful 12:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Spacepol

Spacepol is a Finnish company. The article now is listed at AfD with some assertions by SPA about libelous allegations and spam of this article across several Wikipedias. Your participation in that AfD would be appreciated. -- Jreferee (Talk) 07:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Talk page banner

Hey guys. I'm not a member of the project, but for ease (since I foresee that I'll be doing a little bit of work within your articles in the near future) I've moved the project's talk banner from {{WikiProject Finland}} to simply {{Finland}}. It's just much more straightforward that way. Any objections, I'm sorry, but you;ll have to ask an admin to revert, but I think it's more appropriate. Many projects use a similar system (to mind, there's WP:ALBUM which uses {{album}}). --lincalinca 10:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The template was probably named like that because most similar templates seem to use the format Template:WikiProject Country. I'm fine with this change, but I don't know what you mean by needing an admin to revert it. Prolog 12:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Moving a page to an existing location needs an admin's help. --Mika1h 20:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Only if the target location has an edit history. Any user account older than four days can move a page over a redirect (with no history), like in this case. Prolog 09:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure about that? I thought they changed it so that couldn't be done any more because of the reliability of the function...? Maybe not. I haven't tried in a long time, mind you, but last time I tried (with moving an uncontrovertial and straightforward page over a redirect) it knocked me back, but who knows? Nevertheless, so far, you guys don't seem to be objecting to this move, right? Mind you, you don't seem partial either way. --lincalinca 09:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I'm quite sure and Special:Log/move confirms everything is working normally. There could've been other issues with your move attempt; edit history, full protection, temporary bug in the system, etc. I think Template:Finland would've made a useful redirect to Template:WikiProject Finland, and since it does not really matter what the template actually is called, a move seems like a good change too. Prolog 09:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Valtio

Can someone with a knowledge of Finnish check the article Valtio against the reference it cites. While it seems plausible that such a micronation exists, and that Helsinki Sangomat might cover it, some of the claims in the article are a bit ridiculous. Please help me pare it down to verifiable information. I have no knowledge of Finnish. - Aagtbdfoua 16:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

It is a hoax, to be speedily deleted. --Drieakko 16:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
It seems that the same User:Polaria2007 has created it earlier as well, in July 2007 when it was speedily deleted. --Drieakko 16:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I remember reading in Helsingin Sanomat's NYT-Liite about this Valtio. It is true that this reporter started this "state" but in my opinion it's like a joke, not a serious thing. I don't think the article should be deleted, but it will need re-doing. --Spiby (talk) 16:29, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Finnish Orthodox Church

Finnish Orthodox Church has earlier been marked as needing immediate attention. It has now been improved. Whenever someone has time, please reassess it, thanks. --Drieakko 06:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Deletion review of Valtio

I have requested that the article on Valtio be restored at Wikipedia:Deletion review#Valtio. It would be extremely helpful if anyone could tell us what the article here says regarding the subject. I've tried an automatic translation, and regret to say that it was all but incomprehensible, and would greatly appreciate any input from someone who can actually read the original text. Thank you. John Carter 19:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Here is a quick translation of the first part of the text. My Finnish is not so good, but here goes: A reindeer? A reindeer! Luckily the expedition points out that we are just at the airport and that it’s only a stuffed one. Ruotuväki goes on a campaign to conquer reporter Ari Peltonen’s Valtio. The piece of land insanely stolen from Finland at the Posio latitude is without defence, so something has to be done about the situation.

We choose Rovaniemi as our base, because we heard in the news that Lordi has done PR for this snowy settlement. We think of our strategy almost all night and the next morning we’re ready to go. As the morning sun shines the distance to Posio grows. Of the five men in the group only one is asleep. The attitude has to be sharpened so I decide to eat the others food as revenge. We’ve heard uncertain rumours that Peltonen’s Valtio is only a piece of land in the middle of the swamp with orange string as borders. We cannot be certain about these stories. For this reason we take weapons, and juice and raisins as bribes in case of enemies. Valtio is situated about 8 km north of Posio. We know the place is within an area of about an acre. We’ve also heard that the locals can show us the precise spot. Only amateurs ask for advice, so we decide to search the area independently. After a little running about we come to the conclusion that we are ont the right spot. We start to follow the Muikkilampipuro slowly but vehemently. One hour and thirty minutes, subtropical hailstorm (sic), rainfall, bugs, depression – crisis. And we can’t find Valtio. With wet socks on our feet we decide to ask for advice. Round two. We decide that without finding Valtio we wont go home. We’re close to the jackpot. We get lost on a cliff, which is surrounded by red stockings. Orange string and red fabric are not far from each other so we believe we’ve found Valtio. Our instincts then tell us; maybe this is only a decoy by Peltonen. We continue onwards in the terrain. And finally next to the Muikkulampipuro we see orange string and a fallen flag. Valtio is ahead, ugly and defenceless! There is no-one there except blackflies/buffalo gnats. The bugs are really disgusting and bloodsucking so we head back. As a token of our victory we take the Valtio flag. Ari Peltonen can come and fetch it humbly at editors, the condition being that this plotting against Finland stops. We start the car and leave quickly. On the way home everyone is happy, only a steady banging sounds in the van – those pesky flies! Remember this is from a military-magazine, and the text is aimed for soldiers. --Spiby (talk) 15:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

"Accented" letters

As some of us remember, there were big rows about Teemu Selänne's name, see the talk page. A lot English-language editors want to remove diacritics and accented letters from Wikipedia. This is not valid in Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian etc., because the letters are not just "accented", but completely different letters. Now there is a dispute on Talk:Kimi Räikkönen, people wanting to change it to "Raikkonen". Raikkonen in fact is a completely different last name, used by 16 persons in Finland.

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) is very misguided, and only says "there is a disagreement". Therefore there is no common policy on the issue, but it's clear for us atleast that "Raikkonen" can't be used.

Perhaps Swedish provides the best example, if a word contains both Å and Ä, both would be rendered as A. This is utterly wrong, completely different letters. I suggest that everyone should keep an eye on the issue and provide assistance on talk pages. --Pudeo⺮ 14:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Naming coventions

The following voting is an archived debate of guideline. Voting ran for two weeks. Please do not modify it.

I have written a naming covention about Finnish settlements here Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(settlements)#Finland. Feel free to improve it, but I think the main questions are well issued. I followed main concensus, official information from Toponyms of Finland and from Research Institute for the Languages of Finland.

It is not necessary to conduct such a poll here, but seems like good idea in case of possible future disputes.--Pudeo⺮ 11:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Naming convention (settlements) poll

Support

  1. --Pudeo⺮ 11:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
  2. --Whiskey 15:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Discussion

There might be something to write about the usage of place names in text describing history. See Talk:Raseborg Castle, Clarifier has written a nice text about it. The current names are used in history chapters also, except articles like Treaty of Fredrikshamn? I did not write about this to the convention myself (atleast for now) because it seems to be magnet for the "svecoman-fennoman" rows, so perhaps we should discuss it first. --Pudeo⺮ 12:27, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Help with "Diddú"

Hi, we could do with some help with the article "Diddú", which I created recently. According to fellow editor Stefán, the website http://www.akirkja.is/?obj=sida&id=176&uid=0,104 states that Diddú, an Icelandic opera singer, was made a "grand master" of the Order of the Lion of Finland in 1997. Stefán feels this is "very implausible", but she may well have been awarded some other class of the order. Could a Finnish speaker help to clarify this point? Do post your comments at "Talk:Diddú". Thanks very much. — Cheers, JackLee –talk • contribs • count– 12:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Karelian hot pot

Hi WikiProject Finland! I'm working over at WP:CU where I found this gem which has been waiting for cleanup since 2005. It doesn't look too bad to me, but some attention from you might improve it substantially! I'm going to take it off the cleanup list, but let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Thanks! Cricketgirl 12:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

A Wikipedia meetup in Helsinki?

Hello all. If any of you are interested in meeting other English Wikipedia contributors in a meetup in Helsinki, drop by Wikipedia:Meetup/Helsinki and comment. Cheers, --KFP (talk | contribs) 12:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Swedish language

Swedish language has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. –panda (talk) 03:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Kuikka-Koponen

Hello,

I found the article Kuikka-Koponen on the notability backlog for April. Notability has probably been questioned because no sources were given. Now the Finnish version of the article does cite a number of sources, probably biographies of the person in question. Ideally these should be added to the English article too. But I don't speak Finnish, so I can't even check whether these books have anything to do with the article's topic. Could someone help me? --B. Wolterding (talk) 10:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Nightwish FAR

Nightwish has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. BuddingJournalist 21:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Tulkolahten wishes Merry Christmas to all participants! :)
Tulkolahten wishes Merry Christmas to all participants! :)


Piirka Kellivoitte

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Piirka Kellivoitte, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Piirka Kellivoitte. --Montchav (talk) 15:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

200th anniversary of the Finnish War

The Finnish War started on February 21, 1808 and lasted for about a year, leading up to the establishment of the Grand Duchy of Finland. The 200th anniversary of these events are likely to be covered by media in the coming year, and this is a great chance for us to shape up the related Wikipedia articles in English as well as in Finnish, Swedish, and Russian. I suggest that we start an international mini WikiProject on the talk:Finnish War page, as this is in the intersection between WikiProject Finland, Russia, and Military history. --LA2 (talk) 08:09, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Esko Laine

Hi! Pardon my intrusion as I'm not involved with this project. I'm cleaning through the backlog and came across Esko Laine, reported to be a Finnish musician. The English sources don't establish too much notability, but I can't read the Finnish sources. I was hoping someone could have a look at the article to see if it warrants inclusion here. Thanks so much! Travellingcari (talk) 04:05, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Edits by 91.154.125.14

My problem is this: User:91.154.125.14 has removed Category:Former municipalities of Finland from articles like Zaporozhskoye and Sosnovo, Leningrad Oblast and then inserted it into redirects, such as Kirvu and Viipuri, thus effectively burying the whole category.

I think the edits should be reverted for the simple reason that having categories in redirects is inane (who the hell checks redirects anyway?). But another option has also crossed my mind: why not make individual articles for the old municipalities?

What do you think of this? --ざくら木 16:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Reason for categorizing redirects is that people can find information more easily. For example if a Finnish person is going through Category:Former municipalities of Finland, they are going to search for Viipuri, not Vyborg. --Mika1h (talk) 17:00, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but it should work the other way around as well. --ざくら木 21:47, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Nokia phones

I see that Nokia phones are part of this project. For your information the mobile phone Nokia 1200 has been deleted and the former page changed to a redirect and protected from editing. Does this project had a policy for mobile phones to make it easier to establish the notability of individual mobile phones? Snowman (talk) 12:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Talvisodan henki

Members of this wikiproject might want to take a look at the article Spirit of the Winter War. There has been discussion on WP Military history about AfD'ing it, but I believe the term to be a political one, rather than one that's really related to military history. Askari Mark (Talk) 04:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Help needed for Gyromitra esculenta

Hi all, I was hoping someone in Finland could take a photo of these things on sale in a market or as a tinned product. Also, there are some citation needed tags which would be great to have a reference from the Finnish Government (but I don't speak Finnish). All help appreciated. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:56, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

There's an article at Finnish Food Safety Authority website (in English): http://www.evira.fi/portal/en/food/information_on_food/false_morel_fungi/ --Mika1h (talk) 23:34, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Thx - sks referenced it pronto. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:48, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

PS: Any idea what Korvasieni literally means? (I'd love to add that with a reference to the article) Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

"Korva" = ear, "sieni" = mushroom/fungus. Prolog (talk) 22:52, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


Cool, hate to be picky, can you give me a finnish dictionary as a ref? (Everything has to be reffed these days..) Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Here:

Terrific, now that's a link worth remembering...Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Update

Gyromitra esculenta is now GA and I am thankful for the above links. I would be grateful if someone in Finland could take their digital camera into a supermarket and take a photo of the things either fresh or tinned, or prefereably both, as I plan to take it to FA sometime. much appreciated. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)