Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Figure Skating

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[edit] Figure Skating Terminology

I've started a Figure Skating Terminology page. Please add terms. :) Kolindigo 21:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

It may be more appropriately titled "List of figure skating terms", in accordance with articles like list of blogging terms, list of legal terms, etc. The other thought I had was that I'd never heard of some of these terms before and could really use some citations (although I'm not sure what to cite -- a dictionary perhaps?), but then again, I'm not an expert in the field, so it's expected that I wouldn't know a lot. :-) theProject 23:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay. Is there a way to rename an article? The terms were just off the top of my head from the terms I'd heard Dick Button and Britsh Eurosport Guys repeat a lot. Chacking is documented here. Eligibility is based on who you take money from, so amatuer skaters would stop making names for themselves, turning pro, and leaving the amatuer world without their name recognized skaters (this worked a little too well...). Flutz is used a lot in regards to the female skaters cheating jumps. Pro as an old word for coach from the 1961 Memorial book, as well as used by Scott Hamilton in his autobiography to describe his early coaches. Popping a jump, um, mind if I quote Evan Lysacek on this? And I've been trying for a while to track down the exact point when the Kiss and Cry started being called the Kiss and Cry to no avail. Kolindigo 00:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
To move a page, just click the move tab at the top (it's near the edit tab). I've done it for you this time. Thanks for the sources. theProject 01:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration?

First let me say just how pleased I am that this WikiProject has gained members! For a while there it was a one-woman show, and I'm really glad that's not the case anymore.

Secondly, what do you all think of an "official" collaboration? I assigned one, figure skating, back when I started the project. But I would like to start a discussion on what you guys would like to collaborate on, now that we have a few members. Personally, I'd like to keep figure skating as our collaboration and get it up to at least Good Article status. It doesn't need that much work, I believe; the biggest hurdle is finding sources for everything.

However--would anyone like a different collaboration article? I think we should push toward writing at least one Good Article. At the moment we only have 5 at B level (of those rated so far). Thoughts? --Fang Aili talk 13:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio checking?

What's the criteria for removing articles to be checked for copyvios? I just checked a pretty good number of phrases in Karen Magnussen, and I'm almost positive it hasn't been copied directly from an online source. I'm almost just as sure that it hasn't been copied straight from a book, as the various changes made by the IP after the initial large edit don't reflect the behaviour of one that has just copied straight out of a book. theProject 15:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, basically it's just checking phrases like you did. I'm sorry, I should have removed her from the copyvio checking list because I talked with an IP who claimed authorship (along with the additions to Tonia Kwiatkowski, see the talk page). I'm convinced they aren't copyvios.
I sometimes add people if it just smells of copyvio and I don't have time right then to check.--Fang Aili talk 16:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notability, revisited

I'm not sure exactly where to put this discussion, but I figure if I put it here, interested parties are most likely to see it and comment.

I've noticed that there are some people listed in subcategories of category:figure skaters who have no real notability in skating. There's at least one that's a pure vanity page, and one or two others who are people notable for other reasons who, it is claimed, used to be a figure skater. In order to argue that these pages don't belong on Wikipedia (in the first instance) or in the figure skating categories (in the second), we need to have some consensus about what makes a skater "notable".

So, here's a draft of some guidelines.

  • Skaters in singles, pairs, or ice dancing who have been selected by their national federations to compete at an international junior or senior competition.
  • Synchronized skating teams likewise, but not competitive Theatre on Ice teams (because the ISU does not yet regulate or hold championships in that discipline), and not individual skaters on these teams.
  • Skaters who had a significant impact on the history of the sport, e.g., inventors of various figure skating elements.
  • Professional skaters, ice shows, promoters of ice shows, etc who are well-known enough to be the subject of significant mainstream press coverage.
  • Coaches and choreographers who have worked with competitors at the senior ISU Championships or the Olympic Winter Games, or have had a significant impact on the history of the sport, or have been the subject of significant mainstream press coverage relating to their work in skating.
  • Current and former heads of national and international skating federations, or skating officials who have had a significant impact on the history of the sport, or have been the subject of significant mainstream press coverage relating to their work in skating.
  • Skating clubs that have especially long traditions, had a significant impact on the history of the sport, have been the training site of multiple international competitors, and the like.

Comments? Dr.frog 23:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me. I know there are also articles about skaters who have competed on a senior national level but not international (yet). I personally draw the line at junior skaters who have not competed internationally (meaning, they are as yet non-notable), but I remain open to convincing. --Fang Aili talk 01:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I think those are good guidelines. I'm not sure why there needs to be a Stephanie Rosenthal page (just an example; the only reason it seems that page exists is because she got two standing ovations at US Nationals), but I don't see a problem with having a page on a junior skater who won a JGP event, even if that might seem a little trivial. I think also skaters who appear in reality shows about skating (like Ice Diaries or that Fifth Estate special on Canadian Olympic hopefuls) should have their own entries, even if they haven't had international success. I definitely think Ottavio Cinquanta should have an article! By skating clubs, do you mean like Mariposa, or am I misunderstanding? Kolindigo 02:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I dunno; I guess being featured on a reality TV show makes one notable for having been featured on a reality TV show, but does it make one notable as a skater if one still has no real accomplishments in skating? I agree that someone like Stephanie Rosenthal is a borderline case, having been shown in an elite skating competition on national TV, but never having competed internationally. Now that I think of it, we probably need to add something to account for skaters who finished in the top 3 at their country's senior national championships, but who never competed internationally for whatever reason. If they're listed in the results table at the U.S. Figure Skating Championships article, for instance, that's probably sufficient grounds to consider the skater notable. Anyway, yes, Mariposa would qualify as a notable club (it's been a major training center for champions from other countries, not just Canada). Likewise, the SC of Boston and the Broadmoor SC are certainly notable organizations in the sport. Dr.frog 03:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Re: Top three finishers at a national competition. I'm not sure that should be a blanket. Sure, that works for the big countries like US, Canada, Japan, etc, but I can't name off the top of my head who was third at Swiss nationals, or any other Belgian skater besides for KVDP. And since Switzerland, just as an example, only has two international berths due to Lambiel being at the top, but Othman not breaking the top ten, I'm not sure it really matters in an encyclopedic sense. As for being on reality TV, I think, yes, it makes them notable as a reality TV person, but they are skaters and are on reality TV as skaters, so I think they deserve to be listed under figure skating. Kolindigo 05:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Re reality shows. OK, I have just created Category:Figure skating reality television participants. Not sure if this category will ever get large enough to require breaking down further by show; I suspect the fad for such shows will not last long. Anyway, backing up a bit, I think the main thing we have to consider is verifiability. If a person is truly notable in figure skating, nowadays it ought to be easy to look up their competitive record, and find press coverage of their accomplishments in the sport. The problem is applying the same standards to skaters active in the pre-television, pre-internet era when there were not so many international competitions and not so much press coverage of the sport generally. Dr.frog 12:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I think those are reasonable guidelines as they stand right now. About top three finishes -- agree with Kolindigo that it shouldn't be a blanket. It should be roughly dependent on how many berths they get in the Worlds or Olympics, I think. About reality shows -- I think one such article ought to be taken to AfD just to get a feel for what the rest of the community thinks. I personally think that having an article on each contestant in a reality show is excessive, but clearly, the rest of Wikipedia disagrees (see the "Contestant on Survivor implies notability" rule we seem to have). theProject 16:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tagging talk pages and assessing articles

Wikipedia Assessments within AWB. Click on the image to see it in better resolution
Wikipedia Assessments within AWB. Click on the image to see it in better resolution

Hi. If you still have work to do tagging talk pages and assessing articles, my AWB plugin might be of interest to you.

The plugin has two main modes of operation:

  • Tagging talk pages, great for high-speed tagging
  • Assessments mode, for reviewing articles (pictured)

As of the current version, WikiProjects with simple "generic" templates are supported by the plugin without the need for any special programatic support by me. I've had a look at your project's template and you seem to qualify.

For more information see:

Hope that helps. If you have any questions or find any bugs please let me know on the plugin's talk page. --Kingboyk 12:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of medal images

I have several of the skater pages on my watchlist as most of them competed in the Olympics. I've noticed over the past couple of weeks that people are swapping out the words like "1st, 2nd or 3rd" with one of the images -- Image:Goud.png, Image:Zilver.png and Image:Brons.png. I thought the best place to have this discussion would be here.

First, these images are really ugly. Second, using these images in the way that they are currently being used on a page like Sasha Cohen does a huge disservice as it conveys less information to a potential reader. I feel that it's much better to have the words (1st, 2nd, 3rd) in the box with a colored background than the silly images. --Sue Anne 20:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


I hate the use of these images. I think 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are much more useful. The colored background idea is interesting. It would definitely scan better down a page. I think numerals should be used instead of the color of the medal. I'm also not that much of a fan of the medal tables that list the names of the competitions going across and the years going down, because not every skater competes in the same events every year (especially grand prix events), so there are going to be a lot of dashes or empty boxes, and that looks wrong. Those tables also aren't very useful if you just want to know where a skater placed at Europeans in 2004, for example. I think results should be seperated by season, not by event, and that there doesn't need to be a seperate table for every event. Just a line saying the placement, and the score if it was a personal best, seems like enough to me. Kolindigo 20:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


Something else I've noticed. Using the medal images makes it more difficult to print out, especially without a color printer. Having the words (1st, 2nd) is more effective. —Pelladon 07:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

As I see it, there are several options:

Years at top, with medal images where appropriate--
Event 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
Olympic Games 7th
World Championships 10th 10th 11th 4th
Four Continents 7th 4th image:Med_1.png
U.S. Championships 11th 4th image:Med_3.png image:Med_1.png image:Med_2.png image:Med_1.png
Years at side, split up by "major" and "other" events--
Senior Major Events
Season Nationals Europeans Worlds Olympics
2001-2002 image:Med_2.png image:Med_1.png - 6th
2000-2001 image:Med_3.png image:Med_2.png 4th -
1999-2000 image:Med_2.png image:Med_2.png image:Med_3.png -
1998-1999 image:Med_1.png image:Med_1.png image:Med_1.png -
1997-1998 image:Med_1.png image:Med_1.png image:Med_3.png 4th
Senior Other Events
Season ISU Grand Prix Final Trophee Lalique NHK Trophy Skate America
2001-2002 4th - - -
2000-2001 4th image:Med_1.png - -
1999-2000 - image:Med_1.png image:Med_2.png -
1998-1999 image:Med_2.png image:Med_1.png image:Med_2.png image:Med_1.png
1997-1998 image:Med_3.png - image:Med_2.png -
Years at top, medal color used in cells--
Event 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
Olympic Games 7th
World Championships 10th 10th 11th 4th
Four Continents 7th 4th 1st
U.S. Championships 11th 4th 3rd 1st 2nd 1st

I like the 3rd option best (even though I've been creating option #1 tables; I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier). The 2nd option has the advantage of using the actual seasons, but the table itself looks clumsy. Thoughts? Other options? --Fang Aili talk 00:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the current medal images are horrible. How about a better, less...chintzy one? I made this one: Image:First place medal graphic.gif I can make more or different styles/with different or without fonts/etc if you like. I even have some decent pictures of world medals from podiums at events I've photographed. I am of two minds when it comes to medal graphics. I like the visual representation, but it can look fan page-ish. Other opinions? Vesperholly 08:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I prefer the all-text 3rd option. The medal images don't contribute more information than the equivalent text, and text is easier on people with disabilities (think people with visual impairments who need to use a zoom function or speech synthesizer device to read Wikipedia). Dr.frog 13:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I also prefer the all-text 3rd option. Regardless of what format we decide on, I will be available to assist changing all existing tables to the new format. - Gary van der Merwe 13:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I like the last one. I agree that using medal images feels gimicky and fanpage-ish. It also doesn't add any useful information that can't be represented by numerals. Kolindigo 13:57, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I concur with the others. 3rd option is best. --Fang Aili talk 14:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Do we have consensuses? Vesperholly? I've made a list of articles that would need to be changed over here: User:Garyvdm/NeedToRemoveMedalImages - Gary van der Merwe 21:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Another thing to keep in mind regarding the medal images without words, they can make it difficult for people with colorblindness to understand the table; and, for tables without both bronze and gold medals, there can be some ambiguity about the color on the screen even for people without colorblindess. That is, without a frame of reference, bronze may be mistaken for gold, and vice-versa. Neier 00:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I'd say there's consensus. --Fang Aili talk 00:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm good with the tables without images. Vesperholly 07:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Geoboe84 Made this comment on my talk page:

What do you think if I used the medal background colors in the cells, but keep the medals themselves? (See Emily Hughes) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoboe84 (talk • contribs) 04:17, 28 September 2006

Gary van der Merwe 08:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


I think it looks ugly and doesn't solve any of the problems. Kolindigo 08:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Kolindigo, and it illustrates one of my points above because there is no indication that that medal is not gold. Neier 09:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, and we should try to keep the tables as simple as possible. --Fang Aili talk 13:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Did I miss something, or is the third option not "all-text"? I prefer the all-text one, but it's fourth here... theProject 14:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The 4th table, but the 3rd option (tables 2 and 3 go together as the 2nd option). Gary van der Merwe 15:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project tag

I've changed the project tag {{WikiProject Figure Skating}} to say "priority" rather than "importance". I've noticed some other wikiprojects doing this and I think it makes sense. "Priority" is a more appropriate word. After all, it's not like any encyclopedic subject isn't "important", just that some are of wider interest than others. Please comment if you don't agree or have other ideas. (I realize that a lot of tags will have to be fixed; I can do this with AWB in the next few days.) --Fang Aili talk 14:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standardizing disambiguation pages

I was poking around to see where I could add more of my photos, when I discovered the following:

We should pick one designation and stick to it. I prefer figure skater, since that differentiates from a speed skater. Thoughts? Vesperholly 08:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I prefer "figure skater" as well. --Fang Aili talk 13:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Consensus, I suppose? I'm on it. Vesperholly 10:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Definitely one of the first two, with preference to the second. theProject 03:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

What about skaters of the same name? For example, there are two skaters named Mark Mitchell, one in American singles, and one in Canadian dance. Kolindigo 22:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe Mark Mitchell (American) and Mark Mitchell (Canadian)? --Fang Aili talk 02:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Make that Mark Mitchell (American figure skater) and Mark Mitchell (Canadian figure skater). There is another American Mark Mitchell who is the founder of CodeSourcery and one of the principal GNU Compiler Collection developers, who has nothing to do with figure skating. Dr.frog 13:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Definitely agree with the second option here. It would help a little bit if they weren't redlinks though... :-) theProject 17:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Agree with Dr.frog's suggestion. --Fang Aili talk 20:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adult figure skating

I've created an article about adult figure skating, though it could use some help. I'm only familiar with adult skating in the US. Vesperholly 10:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Looking at this article, perhaps we need to consider another thing that Wikipedia is not: a rulebook. Personally, my feeling is that anybody who understands jargon like "moves tests" or "passing average", or needs to know the correspondence between adult and standard-track test levels, either already owns a USFSA rulebook or needs to buy one, and should not be encouraged to try to use Wikipedia as a substitute. Aside from whether this level of detail is even interesting to a general audience, Wikipedia standards of notability and verifiability suggest that there should be independent third-party sources for information in Wikipedia rather than reliance solely on a primary source like the rulebook. Dr.frog 04:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PharmAssist Skate the Nation Tour (2002)

The following request comes from Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey:

This section below is mentioned in the article Sault Memorial Gardens. It is included as a long list of events at the arena. I am not sure that a list of figure skaters is best suited for an article about a hockey arena, but the list itself has merit.

Is there anyone that knows of a related article to the "PharmAssist Skate the Nation Tour (2002)" or could such an article be created?

List of participating skaters:

Thanks for the help of WikiProject Figure Skating. Flibirigit 04:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Olympic medal table conventions

I think we should decide on a standard for these. Lately Sue Anne's been changing some of the wording around: "figure skating" to "Ladies' figure skating", for instance. (See [1], [2]). Personally I like it the way it was before: the first line declares the sport (figure skating), and the second line declares the discipline (ladies' singles, ice dancing, etc.). Thoughts? --Fang Aili talk 00:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The previous version is standard in just about all coverage of the Olympics I've seen. I've also seen "Skating" used as the general sport, but I think "Figure skating" works much better, as figure skating is much too distinct from speed skating. A general rule of thumb: events that should be included, and the only events that should be included, in the same general category, are those events in which, conceivably, an athlete in one might compete in another. It's entirely conceivable that a singles' skater might compete in pairs, but probably not in speedskating. theProject 03:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Color Coding Disciplines

User Fang Aili and myself were discussing if it were possible to color-code the four figure skating disciplines as the ISU does in their result tables (i.e. blue for mens, pink for ladies, green for pairs, and yellow for ice dancing). I think it would make quick-referencing easier to use the color coding. Here's an example of an ISU results table: [3]. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks. Geoboe84 (talk · contribs)

See this edit. Personally I think this color-coding is ugly and unnecessary. --Fang Aili talk 17:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I think it just makes the tables harder to read. I'd suggest that a better use of people's time would be filling in actual content in more articles, than fussing over formatting. Dr.frog 19:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I think it's distracting, ugly, and it doesn't add anything to the articles. It only makes it harder to read. And that wasn't yellow, it was neon green. Kolindigo 19:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ISU Personal Best Scores?

Should one use scores from a national championship for the ISU Personal Best Scores in {{Infobox Figure skater}}? Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 18:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

National championshps aren't ISU-sanctioned events, so I would think not. Dr.frog 18:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok - Thanks Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 05:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stablepedia

Beginning cross-post.

See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 02:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.

[edit] Terminology, revisited

Just a reminder to everyone that the correct terminology is pair skating and pair skater, not "pairs skating". I've just cleaned up a bunch of articles and there are probably more out there.

Also, "pair" is not the correct terminology for an ice dance team; the ISU uses couple. Dr.frog 19:51, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ongoing article deletion debates

FYI, other folks might want to comment on ongoing deletion debates for articles about Zsa Zsa Riordan, Michael Solonoski, and Melissa Bulanhagui. Dr.frog 23:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

In that vein, there's also a proposed merge for List of Canadian figure skating national champions with Canadian Figure Skating Championships. Kolindigo 23:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

And, for another ongoing controversy, see Talk:Ice Capades. Dr.frog 03:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A couple of questions (ISU rankings and professional results)

1. What is this project's policy on including ISU world standings [[4]] in skater's biographies (the Jeffrey Buttle and Stéphane Lambiel articles currently cite these)? I was always under the impression that these rankings were not very accurate, as they are heavily scaled towards participation in the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating. For example, Lambiel, the current World champion, is ranked fifth, while Buttle, who hasn't competed yet this season, is currently in first place.

2. Would it be a good idea to put professional results in the same table format (but perhaps in a separate table) as amateur results? If so, what are the major professional events that should be included?

Thanks for your time, Lmblackjack21 12:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


I'd personally prefer that articles didn't include references to the ISU world standings because they change all the time and require continual maintenance to keep current. (OTOH, once you write that a skater won such-and-such competition, that fact doesn't change based on current events.) As you note, the formula used to combine results from different events is also completely arbitrary, but so are many of the ISU's technical rules.... see, for instance, the ISU Judging System.  ;-)
Re the pro competitions, I suppose it depends on which events and which skaters. I don't think they should be listed with major eligible events like the World Championships. For that matter, I think eligible "cheesefests" generally aren't really notable competitions either, and don't deserve special mention in Wikipedia unless a particular event had special significance in the career of an individual skater. Dr.frog 14:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


I'm in favor of listing world standings, because, while weighted heavily towards the GP, they still do exist. As for pro results, I think they should be listed, but seperately from amateur results. Kolindigo 05:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
My issue with listing ISU world standings is that while they do exist, hardly anyone knows what the heck they're for, or even how they're obtained--in short, they seem really useless. With the pro results, I was just wondering if there was any reason why most professional results are not tabulated like amateur results are. --Lmblackjack21 21:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nominated for deletion

I have renominated Zsa Zsa Riordan for deletion. I have also nominated Template:Isu for deletion. Kolindigo 06:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability for figure skaters

A comment on the Zsa Zsa Riordan afd suggested to start a policy page, advertise it on WP:VPP, get a consensus on these proposals (if you can) and then apply them. I don't have the first clue how to do any of that, but in order to start it (so that dealing with deleting skating bios becomes easier), I figured it'd be good to have a clear consensus on what we all think makes a skater notable. Here are criterea based on the above suggestions by Dr.frog and the following discussion.


For skaters, in descending order:

  1. Competed at the Winter Olympic Games
  2. Competed at an ISU Championship (World Figure Skating Championships, World Junior Figure Skating Championships, European Figure Skating Championships, Four Continents Figure Skating Championships)
  3. Medalled on the senior level at the skater's national championships. (Thoughts on medal vs. top three? Medal would include top four in the US)
  4. Competed at a Grand Prix of Figure Skating event (Skate America, Skate Canada International, Trophee Eric Bompard, Cup of China, Cup of Russia, NHK Trophy, Bofrost Cup on Ice.
  5. Competed on the ISU Junior Grand Prix
  6. Competed internationally on the junior or senior levels.


For people assosciated with skating who were not notable as eligible skaters:

  1. A coach who has coached notable skaters.
  2. A choreographer who has worked with many notable skaters
  3. Judges who have been involved in judging scandals.
  4. Professional skaters who have competed professionally, or have made appearances on televised skating shows.
  5. Heads of national and international federations.


Thoughts? Kolindigo 05:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

This is generally OK, but I can think of individuals who are clearly notable in skating who would be excluded by these criteria. Examples include: Jackson Haines (professional skater in pre-television era), Bruce Mapes (likewise), Mabel Fairbanks (black skater not allowed to compete in the 1950's), Sonia Bianchetti (very influential skating official but was never a federation head and was never involved in a judging scandal), Tom Collins (founder and producer of Champions on Ice tour). I'd suggest adding:
  • Other individuals who have made significant contributions to the development of figure skating as sport or entertainment, other than as competitors, whose accomplishments are verifiable by multiple reliable sources.
How does that sound? Dr.frog 14:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good to me, though I'd like the last one to be more specific. How would "signifcant contributions" be quantified? Kolindigo 21:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was kind of thinking that leaving that vague would be a good thing, since I can't pretend to anticipate all the ways in which a person could make notable contributions to the sport. The key point is that multiple reliable sources describe the person as having made some notable contribution to the sport. Dr.frog 03:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible source of Photos

Hi

I received permission to use Image:Siobhan McColl.jpg under the GDFL from the author of http://homepage.mac.com/fsphotobox/ . This may be a good source of photos in the future for this project.

Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 11:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Standardizing Skating Programs and Competitions

I would like to help standardize skating program information. For the variety of skating program sections that are on Wikipedia, see:

  • Sasha Cohen - This is a table I made and have applied to Sasha Cohen and Kimmie Meissner so far
  • Johnny Weir - This is how most skating program sections look. I think it's difficult to read and could use some formatting help, which is why I created the first table.
  • Evgeny Plushenko - Plushenko is the only skater for which I've seen this design for programs.

Any suggestions on how to standardize these?

On another note, I haven't seen any articles using these competition tables: Template:Infobox Figure Skating Competition CoP and Template:Infobox Figure Skating Competition 6.0. Sasha Cohen has some competitive tables, but these do not seem to be standardly used. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kolindigo 06:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC) Skeetidot (talk • contribs) 03:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

regarding programs: I really like the one you put onto Cohen's article. My main problem is that it doesn't have a lot of space for notes on when the programs were performed or who choreoed it. It just bunches all together. And I don't like using small text when it's not absolutely necessary. I'm not a fan of squinting. ;) Is there a way to redesign that table structure so that there's room for it to have more than just the name of the song and the name of the artist? Kolindigo 06:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I took the table you made for Evan Lysacek and tweaked this season's programs. My basic idea for a programs table. Kolindigo 06:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Kolindigo, I like the template you made, but it would take up a lot of room for skaters who've competed over many seasons. Also, I found another format for programs on Michelle Kwan's article. I like not having to expand and collapse years too, since that shows no information unless you expand a year. Maybe something where summary info is displayed and then users can expand to see details. I was hoping more ideas would have surfaced by now.

[edit] AfD notice

  • I have nominated Owen figure-skating family and Category:Jewish figure skaters for deletion. Kolindigo 20:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
  • More CfDs: Category:Sabena Flight 548 and Category:LGBT figure skaters have been nominated for deletion. This is the second deletion nom for LGBT skaters. Kolindigo 20:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Another AFD: Taryn Position. Kolindigo 21:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why do we need these categories?

"Christian figure skaters"? "Roman Catholic figure skaters"? "Asian American figure skaters"? IMO, these are non-notable category intersections and not encyclopedic. Please hold off on creating any more of these and/or trying to categorize skaters in this way unless/until you can define what "Roman Catholic figure skating" (for example) is, and how it differs from any other flavor of figure skating, and why skaters' religion or racial background is in any way relevant to their accomplishments and notability in the sport. Dr.frog 14:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources/references?

I'm starting to find more and more articles with requests for references: Figure skating spins, Axel jump, etc. I know that a lot of the facts like first skater to land X jump, skater credited with inventing X spin position, are common knowledge among fans. But how do we source such facts? News article databases worry me because they are so often wrong about things like that. Suggestions? Vesperholly 08:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any good published sources of this information available online. OTOH, there are plenty of references in hardcopy source. The USFSA media guide (at least the old one I have, from 1998-99) has tables of jump firsts, youngest/oldest champions, and similar trivia. John Misha Petkevich's book includes historical notes about most of the jumps, and Nancy Kerrigan's book also has surprisingly lucid descriptions of technique. I also have an older reference book from the 1970's published by the ISU, Single Figure Skating for Beginners and Champions, which has been quite useful. It includes a long introductory section about the evolution of skating technique as well as discussion of individual elements. For information about skaters, historical results, and rules changes over the years, Ben Wright's book Skating in America has been quite helpful. I've also used the various skater biographies as references -- they often have information about other people and events, too. And various popular books, like Christine Brennan's or the Beverley Smith books, are reliable sources as well.
On top of that, I have a collection of Skating magazines that goes back to the late 1980s, and Blades On Ice almost as far back. In addition to providing coverage of contemporary skaters and events, those old magazines also have occasional articles about skating history; e.g., I used a long article published in Skating about the history of compulsory figures as the primary reference for the Wikipedia article on that topic. Dr.frog 12:58, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Permission for photos from scratchspin.com

I have been seeing alot of photos from scratchspin.com incensed under GDFL. Did we receive permission to use all photos from that site, or must we request permission for each photo individually? Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 12:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

This was the email I received when I inquired: "Actually that particular one isn't a correct usage. I do allow Wikipedia to use my photos but they must include "(c) Andrea "Hoo" Chempinski" in the caption of the photo with a link to www.scratchspin.com. So long as this is done you can put photos on whichever skater pages you'd like."
When I asked her to pick a tag, here was the response: "I looked over all the tags and it seems the best one is one that is no longer in use: #

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—permission is given for use on Wikipedia only, and does not include third parties. If there's another tag that meets this criteria go with that. The issue is that any photos of mine are for Wikipedia use only and cannot be reproduced in other formats/locations without specific permission from myself."

GFDL was the one that most resembled what she wanted, so I used that. Did I misunderstand the meaning of the GFDL license? Vesperholly 08:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I believe we must delete all these images. Wikipedia:Image use policy says: "Licenses which restrict the use of the media to non-profit or educational purposes only (i.e. noncommercial use only), or are given permission to only appear on Wikipedia, are not free enough for Wikipedia's usages or goals and will be deleted." The GNU Free Documentation License, OTOH, requires the ability to "copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially" and therefore is incompatible with material that excludes commercial re-use. Dr.frog 13:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Section 2. VERBATIM COPYING of the GDFL states:

You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other conditions whatsoever to those of this License. You may not use technical measures to obstruct or control the reading or further copying of the copies you make or distribute. However, you may accept compensation in exchange for copies. If you distribute a large enough number of copies you must also follow the conditions in section 3.

I think it is important the the author is specifically aware of that. Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 07:36, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you forward the permission email to the OTRS system as per Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. If so, please will you post the ticket number here. Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 13:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
From what User:Vesperholly posted above, the photographer has been contacted and has explicitly refused to license her photos under the terms of the GDFL or any other free license acceptible to Wikipedia. Therefore, I don't see any point in trying to log the e-mail as if it were permission to use the images, because it's not. The images must be removed. Dr.frog 14:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


I've tagged all images on commons for deletion and removed them from articles. I'm starting to do the ones on en.wikipedia now. I'm not enjoying this, and I hope that Vesperholly and other editors that have uploaded scratchspin.com photos don't hate me for doing this. I know that it was a lot of work to upload them, and add them to articles. I thought about just ignoring the issue (as has happened before.) But I thought about the issue last night and there are a number bad things that are very likely to happen if this was not done:
  • The author finds her work on downstream projects and gets pissed off with us because we have misrepresented her by using the wrong license tag.
  • People continue to add photos from scratchspin.com and later some else deletes all the images, thereby creating even more undone work.
So it is just something that has to be done. I'm really sorry. Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 13:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
No need to apologize. In fact, thanks for noticing that this was a problem, and bringing it to our attention. Important lesson: do not take photos from a third-party web site unless you are sure the photographer has explicitly released them under an acceptable free license. Dr.frog 14:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some free photos here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shutterbc/sets/72157594318902057/

These are photos from an Evening with Champions show. These are CC-BY 2.0 licensed. I've uploaded the one of Belbin & Agosto, but I don't know who any of the other skaters are.

Gary van der Merwe (Talk) 13:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

There are some nice shots of the Protopopovs in there. Other skaters include Vlassov & Meekins, Scott Smith, Matt Savoie, and Emily Hughes. Dr.frog 17:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone uploaded these? I do not know those skaters well enough to identify them. --Fang Aili talk 01:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I just uploaded two: Image:Emily Hughes-Evening with Champions1.jpg and Image:Emily Hughes-Evening with Champions2.jpg but someone else will have to identify the other skaters. --Fang Aili talk 02:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed renaming of Category:WikiProject Figure Skating templates to Category:Figure Skating templates

... please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 27#Category:WikiProject Figure Skating templates. Thanks. Mike Peel 18:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] By-Season Navigation

I don't really like the way we have navigation between competitions set up right now. If you look at pages like 2006 Skate America, there's no way to directly check out what happened at the other GP events that year, and no context of where it stood in the season as a whole. I see this as a bigger annoyance going into the 2007-2008 season with no way to get between events for that season. I was looking around at other sports and I like the way tennis has it set up for their yearly competitions. I'd like to keep the "other competitions of this type" templates on each main competition page (such as Template:ISU Championships Figure skating on the Worlds page), but remove it from all the by-year competition pages and replace it with something like this (taken shameless from tennis):


v • d • e
2006-2007 in figure skating


A big problem would be that this is fine for 2007/2008 and 2006/2007, but would break down quickly if we want to go back further. And I think that's okay. I think redlinks are fine, or simply not do those templates until there are pages to link to. But I'd rather have something that works only for a couple seasons rather than a navigation hole. I'd like to have on all main competition pages: 1) the template of "other competitions of this type" (ISU Championships, Grand Prix), and 2) the "this competition by year" template. And on the competition by year pages: 1) the "this competition by year" template, and 2) the "this season in skating" template. I think that would cover the hole well enough for recent past and future events. Kolindigo 06:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I like your template, Kolindigo. Also, do we have an article on the figure skating "season"? It would be nice to explain why it starts in one year and ends in the next, and when various events occur in relation to one another (like the Worlds always being after the Olympics, for example). --Fang Aili talk 01:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Not AFAIK, but that can be remedied. Do you mean on the skating season as a whole or a page for each season? Kolindigo 04:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The skating season as a whole. --Fang Aili talk 13:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Started. Kolindigo 01:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Very nice. :) --Fang Aili talk 03:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay. So what changes should be made so we can start doing this? Kolindigo 17:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

(back to left) Let's put the by-season template into those by-year articles. We could replace the general {{Grand Prix Figure skating}} template with the particular season template. So, for example, 2006 Cup of China would get the template-spaced version of User:Kolindigo/2006-2007 in figure skating, and {{Grand Prix Figure skating}} would be removed. But at Cup of China, {{Grand Prix Figure skating}} would stay. Make sense? --Fang Aili talk 17:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Okay, I've moved that one to templatespace. What changes should be made to the template before it is implemented? Kolindigo 18:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
It could be organized chronologically, but then you lose the sorting that's there now (ISU championships and Grand Prix events). Both organizations make sense, but I'm not sure which one would be more helpful to the reader. Would you want to look at the events chronologically and see how everyone placed, in order? Or would you want to look by event type? --Fang Aili talk 23:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
How about chronological order by event type? That would just affect the ISU championships right now. Euros first, then 4CC, then Junior Worlds, then Worlds. Or maybe put the date in parenthesis and maybe lighter-font after the competition just to show where it stood in the calender? Like: World Championships (March 07). Kolindigo 04:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Want to try both? Then let's see how it looks and decide if we like it. --Fang Aili talk 16:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't think chronological order is of a great deal of importance to the Grand Prix series. Schedule changes have happened in the past without much effect. Performances at Skate America rarely affect later events, other than skaters who perform particularly well perhaps being assigned a second GP. But what GP they performed at well first doesn't affect which later one they are assigned to - ie winning Skate America would get you assigned to any following GP where a slot is available. But for many countries, Europeans and 4CC determines who goes to Worlds and/or the Olympics, so that they preceed Worlds and the Olympics is more important.
Also, I think the "Discontinued competitions" is misleading. Bofrost Cup is no longer a GP, but is still a competition. "Removed from GP series" would probably be clearer. Vesperholly 03:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and made one for 2007-2008, and I've stuck both of them on by-season competition pages. I agree changes should be made, but I figured might as well go ahead with imperfections that can always be changed later. :) Kolindigo 20:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Jaranda/Notabilty (sports)

Hi, I strongly recommed this project to give your notabilty guidelines for a new notabilty proposal that I'm creating on my userpage, once it is completed, I will move to wikipedia namespace for the community to decide. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 22:53, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cat-and-template renaming discussion notice

There's a stub template and cat rename discussion on renaming all bio stub categories from figure skater to figure skating biography and the bio stub templates to reflect that. Kolindigo 04:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ice show

In the category of "can't believe Wikipedia doesn't have an article on it", I discovered that the encyclopedia lacked an article on ice shows. Many such productions, such as Disney on Ice have articles, and there's a category (Category:Ice shows), but no article... until now. Given that this subject is way out of my area of expertise (and given that the red link in an article I was working on is now rectified), I leave this to you all.  :) --EngineerScotty 22:02, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Scotty! --Fang Aili talk 17:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD notice

Alexis J. Williamson has been nominated for deletion. Kolindigo 18:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


I have nominated Stephanie Rosenthal for deletion. Kolindigo (talk) 21:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename proposal

There is currently a renaming proposal for NHK Trophy going on on Talk:NHK Trophy. Kolindigo (talk) 18:08, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Competitive highlights Template

I hope the {{User:Soregashi/Template}} impression.

Event/Season 2005-2006 2006-2007 2007-2008
Winter Olympics

WD
World Championships

10th

9th

8th
European Championships

3rd

2nd

1st
World Junior Championships

1st

--Soregashi (talk) 02:21, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ice Skating venues

This project seems to relate to competitive figure skating. I am trying to determine if there is an appropriate project for a place like McCormick Tribune Plaza & Ice Rink. Should {{WikiProject Figure Skating}} be on that article's talk page? Reply at my talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 07:53, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Weight in the infobox

I've reopened the discussion of the weight field in the infobox. Please comment over there if you have an opinion. :) Kolindigo (talk) 19:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)