Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cornwall/Archive 3

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Assessment

Hi all, The CornwallWikiproject template has been upgraded to include assessments for all Cornwall-related articles. For those who are interested, you can find more info about this at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cornwall/Assessment where you can also find categories for all the different gradings. The extra template parameters can be found at Template:CornwallWikiproject. Right now most articles are in the "unassessed" category, let's try and give all the Cornwall-related articles a rating :-) Cheers, --Joowwww 12:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Caradon Navigation box

I have now created a Caradon navigation box - my thanks to Talskiddy and Mammal4, whose previous boxes I shamelessly copied(!), and added it to the existing parish articles - but there are still quite a lot of red Caradon parishes. DuncanHill 17:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Stub templates amended

I have amended the Cornwall-stub template and the Cornwall-geography-stub template, so that when added to an article they include a link to the Cornwall Wikiproject. I hope that this will encourage editors to visit and contribute. DuncanHill 22:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Resource

This website Falmouth Packet Archives looks as though it may be useful to members of this Wikiproject. DuncanHill 00:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

St Neot

Just a note to let you know, St Neot is now a disambiguation page, so for the Cornish village use St Neot, Cornwall, the saint himself remains at Saint Neot. DuncanHill (talk) 19:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Resources

I am compiling a list of resources relevant to Cornwall on my userpage here User:DuncanHill/Cornwall Resources. It includes both weblinks and books in my collection. If you have any suggestions for web resources, could you mention them here or at my talk page please? Also, if you need something looking up in any of my books, then please just ask at my talk page, and I will be happy to oblige. DuncanHill (talk) 18:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

ODNB People missing from Wikipedia

I have started a list of people connected with Cornwall who have entries in the ODNB, but who do not yet have articles on the Wikipedia - other editors may find this useful for suggestions for new articles. The list is here - User:DuncanHill/Cornwall People. I have started by concentrating on Cornwall's learned societies (The Royal Institution of Cornwall, the Royal Cornwall Polytechnic Society and the Royal Geological Society of Cornwall). DuncanHill (talk) 21:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry folks

Sorry everyone - I am going to take a wikibreak, which may become permanent. I am fed up with the pathetic lies and self-serving attitude of a few users (not from this project, I hasten to add), which are making it impossible for me to retain faith in the Wikipedia as a whole. I can be emailed through the email function at my userpage. You have my best wishes. DuncanHill (talk) 00:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that, take care and thanks for all the work you've done on Cornish pages! --Joowwww (talk) 00:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I am sort of back for now - but feeling a bit battered and bruised! Thanks for all the supportive comments I have recieved from so many editors I respect. DuncanHill (talk) 00:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Merger of Associateship of the Camborne School of Mines into Camborne School of Mines

There is a proposal to merge the article on Associateship of the CSM into the main article for CSM. The debate can be found and contributed to at this link - Merger Proposal. DuncanHill (talk) 01:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Cornwall, England, UK

I presume we are going with the Cornwall, England, United Kingdom styling as exhaustively argued previously?LessHeard vanU 13:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes lets be bold! Mammal4 14:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, seems to be the least-worst option! DuncanHill 14:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
No. A three level comma separated name like this might look ok in a list or an address, but it is almost impossible to include in readable, grammatical text. Or at least the result looks really yucky. To me (a non-local) it seems over-specific, so I'm guessing the unreferenced exhaustive argument above hinged around political issues. I've no problem with this, but could somebody who thinks we need this level of detail come up with an english language phrase (as opposed to a list) that we can use. -- Chris j wood 11:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
If you can come up with a better phrasing that won't set off all the old arguments again I'm sure a lot of people (myself included) would be delighted! There was a long period of revert warring between the "Cornwall is a seperate country, and should never be referred to as part of England" opinion, and the "Cornwall is an English County with no distinctive history or culture" opinion. The formulation adopted above (after long debate at the Great Britain geo wikiproject) seemed to offend the fewest people, while avoiding the need to have an in-depth discussion of the Cornish Constitutional status question in every single article which had anything to do with Cornwall.DuncanHill 11:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I rather assumed it would be down to something like that. Unfortunately I can be a bit doctrinaire too, especially when somebody tries to persuade me to write what I see as really *crap* english. Whilst you were responding above, I was in the process of changing the entry at Par railway station which first brought this to my attention to read:
... in the county of Cornwall in England in the United Kingdom.
This is still pretty clunky english, but better (IMHO) than just commas. Do you think it would serve where we need to include the formulation in english text (I've no issue with the comma separated version in lists, infoboxes, etc.) -- Chris j wood 12:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I think it should be alright - certainly I have no objections - but it is one of those subjects where passions run high! DuncanHill 12:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Technically Cornwall is neither a county or part of england/UK. This has been successfully argued in the past. I thought that wiki dealt in fact but apparently you people don't believe that! Jellery 03:52, 04 June 2007 (UTC)
I favour "Cornwall, U.K." rather than "Cornwall, England, U.K." as i believe it to be a better and more concise description JonFlower26 22:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
  • No. "Cornwall, U.K" is at least less POV. --MacRusgail 23:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Why not simply style it Cornwall?Abtract 06:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
When this matter has been discussed previously, the suggestion of simply Cornwall was deprecated because many users of Wikipedia do not know where Cornwall is. The usage of Cornwall, England upset many, as it is associated with the Cornwall is just an ordinary English county, and has no special cultural or historical position brigade, while the use of Cornwall, UK breaks with the (more or less) standard WP practice of using constituent countries in articles about UK places, and may appear to give undue weight to a Cornish Nationalist position. The Cornwall, England, UK form was a compromise which was adopted in a largely succcessful attempt to end the edit-warring which had marred WP coverage of Cornwall. The compromise appears to me to have been working well until now, however over the last few weeks there have been sporadic outbreaks of anonymous edits either removing England or removing UK. If these continue, I feel that I shall have to take the whole matter to a UK-wide wikiproject, to see what the wider community feels appropriate. I do not particularly wish to do this, but I do not wish to see the good wor done by this wikiproject undermined by a fresh outbreak of POV edit wars. DuncanHill 08:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_geography/How_to_write_about_settlements#Lead.2A says that constituent country should be used in writing about settlements. DuncanHill 08:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

How about "The Duchy of Cornwall, UK" as a copmromise? I do not think this will give undue weight to a Cornish Nationalist stance. one of the intriguing things about Cornwall is that it is legally an extra territorial land from England. The 1969-71 Killbrandon Report into the British constitution states that, " when referring to Cornwall, official sources should cite the Duchy". This was in recognition of it's constitutional position. You now have the right on some official forms to be able to record your Nationality as Cornish. The NHS and the Police accept your Nationality to be recorded as Cornish. Jack33 12:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Pour sand over the SPAs popping up here. This thread was stale last year: look at the timestamp of the first post. — mholland (talk) 12:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • I know this a long dead debate but ... why do we need any qualifier after the word "Cornwall"? Are there any other Cornwalls? Abtract (talk) 23:38, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
There are Cornwalls in Connecticut, New York State & Ontario at least. British users are unlikely to need any qualifier, however many wikipedia users come from overseas and are less well informed about the geography of these islands. DuncanHill (talk) 23:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Lots more Cornwalls at Cornwall (disambiguation). DuncanHill (talk) 23:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

South West Coast Path

Hi, Can I ask for some expert local knowledge from members of this WikiProject. The article about the South West Coast Path is currently just a list of towns & villages, places of interest etc & has had banners added suggesting the lists would be better as prose. A group of us have started drafting a better (prose) version mentioning the key places along the route on the Talk:South West Coast Path page which, when finished, will move into the main article space. I've walked most of the path in N & S Devon but do not know it in Cornwall. Would anyone be willing to add to the article on the talk page so that it accurately reflects the geography and features of the area?— Rod talk 18:44, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Just to let you know South West Coast Path is now a good article candidate - please help to improve it if you can.— Rod talk 08:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Saltash Tunnel

The stub Saltash Tunnel has been speedied without notification to the original author or this Wikiproject. I have asked the speedying admin to reinstate the article to allow editors time to work on it. DuncanHill 12:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I have now recreated the article, with a little more context and cats and stubs. DuncanHill 14:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed new stub category

I have proposed a new stub category for buildings and structures in Cornwall. You may join the debate here - Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2007/December#Category:Cornwall_building_and_structure_stubs. DuncanHill (talk) 23:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

New Building & Structures stub category

What ho, I have created a new stub category for buildings and structures in Cornwall. To add an article to this category, use {{Cornwall-struct-stub}}. I hope this will be useful in organizing the work of the Wikiproject. I have re-stubbed a number of articles which were previously in "Cornwall stubs" or "Cornwall geo stubs", but have probably missed some. So, if on your wikitravels you should come across any articles which would be better in the new stub cat, please re-stub them. Thanks. DuncanHill (talk) 21:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Penzance Natural History and Antiquarian Society

The Penzance Natural History and Antiquarian Society has turned up in a couple of my recent Cornish People articles, but I am having difficulty finding out more about it. Anyone have any info? DuncanHill (talk) 14:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Count(r)y consensus

Could someone provide a link or links to the talk pages where consensus regarding the naming convention for Cornwall/England/UK/County/Country was formed? I can't seem to find a definate result. I'm hoping to make a shortcut page to be linked to in edit summaries detailing the issue and the resulting discussions. Many thanks --Joowwww (talk) 14:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it was on the UK geo-wikiproject, but it was a while ago! We had a sort of consensus near the top of this page for a while too. DuncanHill (talk) 17:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Would it be possible for another vote and discussion in light of the recent torrent of publicity and progress from the Cornish Constitutional Convention (among other groups). I think we need to review the "count(r)y" staus on Wikipedia. Fletch_2002 Fletch 2002 (talk) 20:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Merging projects

Well, should georgraphy of Penwith be merged with here? This has effectively superceded the other one. Simply south (talk) 17:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Merge combining would encourage more editors to focus on more cornish articles; there seems little point in having separate projects for each district and the geography thereof when one large project stands more chance of enthusing us all. imho. Abtract (talk) 18:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge, concentrate resources and avoid duplication of effort. DuncanHill (talk) 12:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge Would be nice to have the few Cornish wikipedians there is under one roof, so to speak...--Joowwww (talk) 12:34, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge There aren't a huge number of people in either project so I can't see the benefit any longer in having a seperate project for Penwith when the other districts all come under the Cornwall wikiproject anyway. TrevelyanD (talk) 12:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge. Makes a lot more sense.–MDCollins (talk) 12:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge and hope the high standards of the Penwith project can be transferred to all Cornish articles. Vernon White . . . Talk 14:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak merge, perhaps it can become a project again when it is more substantial. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge Sounds like a good idea to me Reedgunner (talk) 19:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge It makes more sense to me, and to probably to the majority of people who don't know the districts of Cornwall too well.Geof Sheppard (talk) 08:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge I agree, it sounds like a good idea to me.--Lord Balin (talk) 18:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge It's part of Cornwall, therefore it will get included under this wikiproject! Peterwill 20:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge I'm only a relatively small scale contributor to the Penwith project, but I agree with the comments above - it makes sense to merge the two projects. Dan1980 (talk | stalk) 23:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Peter and the Piskies: Cornish Folk and Fairy Tales

This article was recently rated and marked as a stub. I think, upon further review, someone might agree that it's worthy of "Start" class. Can it be reassessed? Otto1970 (talk) 17:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Done! The stub-assessment on the Wikiproject template was done automagically, as the article itself was marked as a stub. I've removed the stub tag from the article, and rated as start for the wikiproject, which I think is a fair assessment. DuncanHill (talk) 21:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Photo requests

I have just discovered Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Cornwall - to add an article to it, type {{reqphoto|in=Cornwall}} to the talk page. DuncanHill (talk) 15:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

New Category

I have created a new category - Category:Cornwall lists, which is intended to contain all lists relating to Cornwall. I hope this will aid navigation. DuncanHill (talk) 02:36, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

A Merry Christmas and a peaceful and prosperous New Year to One and All. I shan't be online much for the next few weeks, so see you all later. DuncanHill (talk) 12:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Merry Christmas (Nadelek Lowen)–MDCollins (talk) 14:07, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Identify this Church anyone?

Can anyone identify this Cornish Church - I found it on an old film, and can't remember where I took it!

Cornish Church
Cornish Church

Many thanks in advance, DuncanHill (talk) 21:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I like a challenge!! I think it's St Nectan's Chapel, Lostwithiel http://www.acny.org.uk/venue.php?V=2728

All good wishes Teapotgeorge (talk) 22:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Fabulous - that's it! I remember now it was on a drive about in that odd little corner beyong Lostwithiel, we went on down to Lerryn and had our thermos overlooking the river there. DuncanHill (talk) 22:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Spelling

There is a spelling mistake in your template for Cornish Nationalism "spearate" for separate. Teapotgeorge (talk) 14:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I fixed it. DuncanHill (talk) 14:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

St Michael's Mount & St Buryan & Isles of Scilly

St Michael's Mount and St Buryan & Isles of Scilly are candidates for the Wikipedia for Schools CD, about which you can read more at this link - [1]. DuncanHill (talk) 01:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone know what the current status of this is? I used to write a lot for Wikipedia on Cornwall related issues (and set up the Cornwall wikiproject initially) but became disillusioned with all the in-fighting and bitching that often gets in the way of writing good articles, and don't really write much anymore. I have a personal interest in the St Buryan article as I pretty much wrote it single handedly and did considerable research/photography for it (it is also my home village). There are a few things that I have been meaning to add in order to fully round off this piece of work, which should make it suitable for featured article status (I have consulted wikiexperts on this). It would make sense to me that these things be finished before it was committed to CD rather than afterwards. If there is a deadline for this then I would be happy to tie up these last few things. Best Wishes 159.92.6.201 Mammal4 (talk) 14:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't know about the physical CD, but here is a link to the version of the St Buryan article used on the "Wikipedia for Schools" website. [2]. I'd just like to add - your contributions are sorely missed, the project and Wikipedia are poorer for your absence. Best wishes, DuncanHill (talk) 14:54, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Hear hear :-) --Joowwww (talk) 12:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Godrevy Island Stub

There is a mistake on this page, the Mohegan and the Spyridion Vagliano were wrecked on the Voices, which is part of The Manacles off the Lizard and not Godrevy Island. I think the sentence starting 'Not far from the remains' through to 'bounced off to the north' is relating to another link. The sentence after this relates to the sentence concerning the SS Kintuck, therefore if you removed the sentence relating to the Mohegan the paragraph is correct. Hope this makes sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.39.155 (talk) 15:29, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

St Buryan

I have done some more work on the St Buryan article and have now put this up for peer review here. The idea is that it will be read by a broader section of wikipedians, and suggestions for improvements made. Eventually I would like to push this article to featured quality and this should hopefully help with that. If anyone has any comments about the article it would be great if they could add them to the peer review page.Mammal4 (talk) 08:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I have put this up for featured article now Mammal4 (talk) 19:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Photographs of courts

If any Cornwall-based photographers could take snaps of courts in their neck of the woods (e.g. Truro Crown & County Court, Bodmin County Court, Penzance County Court, local magistrates courts) and add them to commons:Category:Courthouses in the United Kingdom, the photographs would be very much appreciated for List of courts in England and Wales and List of county courts in England and Wales. I'm also working on a list of closed courts, so photographs of former court buildings would be useful too. Thanks, BencherliteTalk 22:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Maker, Cornwall

A move request is in progress at Maker, Cornwall to move it to Maker. Which is currently an unambiguous redirect. Comments are welcome. Parable1991 (talk) 18:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

ODNB People missing from the Wikipedia

Re my earlier post (now archived at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Cornwall/Archive_3#ODNB_People_missing_from_Wikipedia), I have now completed people associated with both the Royal Cornwall Polytechnic Society and the Royal Geological Society of Cornwall, and have just the Royal Institution of Cornwall people to do. The list is at User:DuncanHill/Cornwall People. DuncanHill (talk) 01:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The Chough of Appreciation

I have created a "Cornish Chough of Appreciation" to be awarded to anyone who you feel deserves it, for good work on Cornish articles. To use it, type {{subst:User:DuncanHill/Chough|your message here ~~~~}} which produces

The Cornish Chough of Appreciation
your message here DuncanHill (talk) 17:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The signature and timestamp will be replaced by your own when you use it. Any feedback/ideas for improvements etc would be welcome. DuncanHill (talk) 17:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The first one has already been awarded to Jimfbleak, whose work on Chough inspired its creation. DuncanHill (talk) 17:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
This no longer works as I have had the userpage deleted. DuncanHill (talk) 01:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

An Awhesyth

Help with this article about a Cornish language folk song would be appreciated. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 17:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)