Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chinese-language entertainment

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[edit] Archive

The previous WikiProject Chinese modern music / Chinese-language entertainment discussion page has been archived. Feel free to start discussions again below.

[edit] Userbox

The userbox is still pointing to the old project name. Is it just a move? Benjwong (talk) 05:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've only moved things, but the userbox's link should work properly (now?). And if you do happen to find other broken or misdirected links in the future, it would be really helpful if you (or anyone) would fix them. =) Skyezx 08:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

I've been looking around, but I still haven't figured out how to rename categories (i.e. Category:WikiProject_Modern_Chinese_music to Category:WikiProject_Chinese-language_entertainment). If someone could figure that out, it'd be awesome. Here are some pages to get started: Wikipedia:FAQ/Categorization, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (categories). Skyezx (talk) 20:36, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I put in a request here. I also put up a speedy tag on Category:WikiProject_Modern_Chinese_music. I have not moved categories before. This is new for me. So I am going by the instructions. Benjwong (talk) 03:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
The above request was completed. I have put in another request here to move Category:WikiProject Modern Chinese music participants to Category:WikiProject Chinese-language entertainment participants. Benjwong (talk) 02:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
And Category:WikiProject Modern Chinese music articles should be changed to Category:WikiProject Chinese-language entertainment articles. I thought at first changing the category would change the subcategories as well. Heh. I'll put in the request. Skyezx (talk) 04:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move/rename Vanness Wu

Hello! I'd like to move Vanness Wu to "Van Ness Wu," as this is how his name is spelled on all official sites. Discussion/objections? Thanks!! --Hamuhamu (talk) 05:07, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

According to his profile on Sony Music, it's Vanness. Also, in searches, like Google News, the name that comes up most often is Vanness. I reckon that Van-ness is split up just for branding purposes. I would leave it as it is (re: WP:UCN ). Skyezx (talk) 06:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm, I do see that. I'm confused because his official site and official blog splits it up. On Kangta & Vanness official site it's "Vanness," though that was created by a Korean company (SM Entertainment) who may have wanted it to "match" Kangta's name. I get enormous amounts of hits for "Van Ness Wu" on Google. This is confusing! :) --Hamuhamu (talk) 07:11, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
How about a redirect so everyone is happy? Dengero (talk) 07:50, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
D'oh. Of course. Splendid proposition. Skyezx (talk) 08:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
You people are too brainy. See, that's why I ask these things. =D --Hamuhamu (talk) 09:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article tag

I was trying to tag an article when I realize the tag is {{CPOP}}. The template name is Template:CEnt but you cannot actually use the tag WP:CENT since it goes to "Wikipedia:Centralized discussion". Shouldn't we try to come up with a new tag? This is quite confusing. Benjwong (talk) 01:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I Concur. I've been trying to tag a few articles myself. How about....WPCLE? Chinese Language Entertainment.....Dengero (talk) 02:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
That works for me. Let's see if others have comments. I haven't tagged any article yet. I also just signed up for AutoWikiBrowser (AWB). Do you think this will help with the tag changes? Benjwong (talk) 02:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I would've signed up for AW ages ago but....I have no idea how to even remotely use it....TW seems so much easier and simpler for me haha. Tell me if AW is really useful once you use it for a bit ^^ Dengero (talk) 02:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
We'll see how it goes. Anyways this vote was to see if people are ok with the "WPCLE" tag. heh Benjwong (talk) 02:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

{{CEnt}} works fine (re:Talk:Ron Ng). Though yeah... CEnt is easily confused with WP:CENT. I don't know. I'm neutral on the matter. I also looked at AWB, but it looks so confusing... and I don't have enough edits to qualify. haha. Skyezx (talk) 03:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

CEnt is hard to write compared to CENT. Better to change the letters due to confusion anyway. Dengero (talk) 04:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, okay. CEnt is appearing more and more awkward. I support this change. Skyezx (talk) 04:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok so what is the new tag? Benjwong (talk) 23:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
As suggested earlier, WPCLE? or CLE? Skyezx (talk) 00:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I prefer "WPCLE" it is then. Benjwong (talk) 04:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

So it it WPCLE now? Should we update the front page? Dengero (talk) 01:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes. It is created now. You can tag {{WPCLE}} from now on. Benjwong (talk) 06:08, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I updated the template & info on the template page from CEnt to WPCLE. If anyone wants to take a look and make sure I didn't foul it up, please do so! -- Hamuhamu (talk) 04:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
You did fine. =) Skyezx (talk) 07:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] banner

I was thinking of putting "Album" class on some of the album articles, and letting WP:ALBUMS assess it, but then some albums eventually do become FAs, so I'm just wondering what you guys think. Same thing with "(Record) Label" class.

Also, we're probably going to have to devise new assessing criteria, cause a lot of the High-Mid-Low's were based solely on singing, and not acting (which is why Jackie Chan is Mid/Low, and not High. I mean, under WP:CLE, he's definitely a High.) Pandacomics (talk) 15:07, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Albums and discographies really belong to WP:album and WP:discography. Even if it was released in Chinese language, the company that owns it may be a UK subsidiary. I would leave it.
About the ratings, unless we can find someone to rate all the articles, we will just slowly rate whatever we are working on. Yes Jackie Chan is high. Benjwong (talk) 23:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Browser problem?

Can someone go to the teresa Carpio page and see whether the first name is in capital or lower case? My browser is saying teresa is in lower case. When I try to move the article to upper case name, it said it is identical. But it is not?! Benjwong (talk) 04:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks lower-case to me! I'm a n00b so I have no advice on what techno-whatsitz is going on to cause the issue. I'm using the newest version of Firefox, if that helps. --Hamuhamu (talk) 05:21, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
It's not just you, it appears as lower case for me too. The URL is already http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Carpio so there shouldn't be anything wrong with the title. But it's really weird how it's different in the article name. Is it a bug? o_O Oh, and it's not a browser problem. I've tried it in FF, IE, Opera and Safari. lolSkyezx (talk) 05:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
It's because there was a {{lowercase}} tag. I've fixed it. Pandacomics (talk) 02:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Daniel Wu review

Since this place seems active and users are good about responding to queries, I'll ask: would anyone mind looking over an article I expanded on Daniel Wu? I'm new to editing Wikipedia and it's been years since I really did any writing, and I'd really like more experienced eyes to look at it. It hasn't been assessed since it was a stub. I'm particularly wondering about tense shifts. No big hurry! Thanks for your consideration! --Hamuhamu (talk) 05:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks perfect fine. Well done. Dengero (talk) 01:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
It looks pretty good. Benjwong (talk) 06:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, guys. Just wanted to know if I was on the right track! -- Hamuhamu (talk) 07:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Looks good. One additional thing you can do however, is to convert his filmography into tables (or split it off to a separate page if you feel it's too long and then convert to tables). Oh, and internal links (Wikipedia links) to his movies would be nice too. Skyezx (talk) 07:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your copyediting! At the Filmmakers & Actors WP they're still arguing over filmography table vs no table, but if you think a table would be an improvement, I will plan to include one as my standard practice. I think they look pretty nifty. His movies are wikilinked in the existing filmography section...I hope! :) Thanks again, all of you, for your time. I now feel ready to expand some other articles. -- Hamuhamu (talk) 14:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
While there are concerns, I think the general consensus there is that tables are an improvement over bulleted lists. All the FA's I've looked at have their filmography in tables... so while a bulleted lists are okay for short lists and developing articles, eventually, they should be converted into tables. That's my understanding anyway. Skyezx (talk) 21:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AWB on talkpages?

I am trying to mass move with AWB so that any article currently tagged with {{CEnt and {{Cpop will move to {{WPCLE. Notice how I didn't close the brackets because some have different fields to follow. AWB does not seem to let me edit on the talk pages? Anyone know how to make this simple? Or does someone want to run down the list? Benjwong (talk) 06:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

This part worked. Please ignore. Benjwong (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External links, reliable sources, etc.

Do you guys think it may be necessary to revise the external links and reliable sources blurb on the project's main page? Sites like http://tvb.windy-goddess.net/?page_id=2 and http://virtuesofharmony.net/blog/?page_id=2, while entertaining, are run by fans/undergrads and seem a lot like blogs/personal web pages. Official blogs like http://blog.tvb.com/raymondlam/ are undoubtedly acceptable, but I'm kinda iffy on those previously mentioned. What do you guys think? And what other examples are there of acceptable sites? I guess it's not a big deal until we promote articles to GA or FA. Skyezx (talk) 08:10, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I've read through tvb.windy-godess.net a few times, it gives quite a comprehensive review, and the fact that it's not for every series makes the quality high. I have long accepted it as the only "external" thing other than the blog and the actual page. As for virtue and other forums such as asianfanatics/asianeu, I dont think so. Dengero (talk) 13:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I have a related question on reliable sources for translations. I don't read Chinese and I'm running into a brick wall with some performers, unable to find enough English primary sources to put together anything decent. Wikipedia's guidelines for using translated materials seems very strict, which is understandable but very limiting. I occasionally find blogs that specialize in news article translation, but in terms of more personal info used to flesh out a biographical article -- I usually find those translations (of artist interviews and such) done by fans on very fannish sites like asianfanatics, soompi, livejournal. No clue how to handle this. I also don't know how to deal with articles that are archived either by the original news source (the newspaper's web site, requiring a fee to view) or by a service like archivemylibrary.com. Woe is me. Thanks for any suggestions or guidance! -- Hamuhamu (talk) 14:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
We usually arn't too bothered about references unless it's really controvertial. Plus, if it isn't controvertial, it wont attract any international coverage (unlike the thing with edison). So generally we accept stuff written in the articles as good faith, and they usually are. Translated news is a definate nono, because personally I'm also a translater in one of those fan sites. I sometimes lose quite a bit of meaning from the original piece of news. So in all, to answer your question, that is also why our english wikipedia articles on local artists are so deficient. But nothing can be done, we can only just maintain with what we have. We are the only few ones to safeguard these articles. Feel proud =) Dengero (talk) 04:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Ideally everything should be referenced. Whether we can find enough people to help reference is a different story. Benjwong (talk) 13:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree. We should have sources whenever possible - in case the material are challenged (re: All material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable, published source.WP:CITE). Finding them is difficult though...Skyezx (talk) 07:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Red packet pictures

Those red packet pictures for articles like Roger Kwok are all deleted?? Anyone noticed? Benjwong (talk) 18:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, they said even though I took the pictures, it doesn't mean the copyright is mine. Therefore they deleted them ><" Dengero (talk) 03:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Source question

Was doing some online research and ran across this story on CRI English, which I thought was a legit source. It says "Asianfanatics.net" and "Source: World Journal." I...don't get it. Can anyone help sort this out for me? Thanks! --Hamuhamu (talk) 21:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It basically means they were too lazy to make an article on Vanness themselves, so they copied and pasted from Asianfanatics.net, while remembering to actually credit the writer. And of course, anything from Asianfanatics is uncredible. So no to WP:V. Pandacomics (talk) 00:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Serious? A news agency gets stories from fan forums? >_< UGH. Do they not realize how freaking hard it is to find this kind of stuff in English? *sporks them* Thanks for your input! --Hamuhamu (talk) 01:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
They don't always get stuff from fan forums. There are a lot of articles on CRI English that are original content, but it's a good thing you did pick up on the Asianfanatics.net thing, regardless. (Side note: the "World Journal" thing refers to stephanieshieh getting the info from World Journal. CRI then copied off stephanieshieh's translation.) Pandacomics (talk) 01:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
So stephanieshieh is the screen name of the person who translated the article and (I assume) posted it at Asianfanatics forum. This gives me many LOLZ. -- Hamuhamu (talk) 01:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
stephanieshieh is a user that's somewhat known in the Internet C-pop sharing community. She shares music on multiple music sharing forums and also helps translate articles related to the Chinese entertainment industry. Arsonal (talk) 15:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
That's nice of her. Does she have a formal blog or website, just for her translations? Something like that would, I think, approach credibility for sourcing, versus things posted and reposted ad nauseum on fan forums. Also, do you know if she translates word-for-word or if she just summarizes? Thanks~~ - Hamuhamu (talk) 22:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
She translates, but I don't think she'd reach credibility for sourcing, regardless. [1] There's only so much credibility a 20-year-old Asian female can have by posting up translated news on forums that aren't even notable enough for Wikipedia. And things do get posted and reposted ad nauseum on forums. That's what we call "too lazy to translate news yourself". Pandacomics (talk) 00:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, so she's the one actually posting them in forums? (As opposed to having a site or blog dedicated to quality translation, the contents of which get snagged by others and posted to fan forums.) That sucks. I was hoping it might be something that "approaches" credible, with links back to the original articles and such. *sigh* I don't think a last.fm site is gonna do it...LOL! - Hamuhamu (talk) 02:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
O I'm shocked too!!! AND they say all the copyright is thier's at the bottom! Shameless sites these days..... Dengero (talk) 01:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I recently came across WP:RSUE, where it states that if there are no English sources available, it's okay to use other-language sources, as long as these sources are still considered reliable sources. So that means, we can translate the articles ourselves, making sure we quote the appropriate source that other editors can check for factuality (or appropriate translation) should there be doubt. In these cases, then forums like asianfanatics and asianeu may serve a purpose. If their source is an appropriate reliable source, then we can use that. In the Vanness case, if we have access to World Journals (via a public library maybe? I can't find them online), we can look up the approximate date of the article and find our source there. Do you guys see what I'm getting at? Skyezx (talk) 07:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
As for World Journals, I found a worldjournal.com in Chinese. Other than that, no clue! Regarding translations in general, I've found lots of them on translation blogs, livejournal, AF.com, soompi, etc; problem is I have no idea how reliable they are, and often the original article is old enough that it's archived by the originator and is now offline or pay-per-view. (And of course there are always the translators that credit the place where they found the original article instead of the article's actual source, the logic of which just kills me. I've seen articles & pics credited to "naver" or "google"). I guess each translation would just need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, using common sense and good faith? Seems there are also some resources to request translations on WP, as well. --Hamuhamu (talk) 07:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
...you know, you could have just taken a look at Jay Chou, S.H.E and Jane Zhang. The vast majority of sources on there are non-English. Pandacomics (talk) 14:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Not sure what you mean. I don't read Chinese, so finding reliable translations is important. =) --Hamuhamu (talk) 19:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I was referring to Skyezx's comment about wikipedia and non-English sources. Asianfanatics and many other forums rarely, if ever, link back to the original article. Pandacomics (talk) 19:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah gotcha! Yeah, it's so frustrating! --Hamuhamu (talk) 19:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I realize that they don't always provide a direct link, but what I meant was, to look at the source(e.g. World Journal) and the date (approximately) it was translated, and use that information to find the original source ourselves. I just personally find it easier to read English than Chinese. Not that I can't, it's just easier reading walls of text in English than in Chinese(the latter makes my eyes bleed T_T). And yeah... the Jay Chou, S.H.E. articles were what made me look up the policy. Skyezx (talk) 22:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwan expert?

Is Kenji Wu really not considered a mandopop singer? Benjwong (talk) 06:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know who told you this, but he's definitely a Mandopop singer. If you sing in Mandarin... Pandacomics (talk) 14:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I guess you can pick on the word pop in mandopop if you're really picky.....Dengero (talk) 02:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I was going to fix the article template but the word "mandarin" and "mandopop" didn't show up once on his article? I didn't know his music style was considered something different by taiwan standards. Ok nevermind. Benjwong (talk) 03:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Album releases in China

Anyone know how to get info about album releases in China? Thanks~ --hamu♥hamu (talk) 12:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)