Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive/July 2007

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.


Contents

Task Force proposal

I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there who'd be willing to help set up a Task Force on Chinese popular music (a.k.a. C-pop), which would encompass the three main areas of pop music (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong). - Pandacomics 06:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you see any editors that consistently edit Chinese pop music-related articles? You might want to message any editors like that directly, some of them may not be paying attention to this WikiProject. Editing Chinese pop music articles can be a hassle - there are basically no reliable sources on the musicians in my opinion. Everything out there are blogs, poorly-maintained fansites, and online gossip magazines. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 07:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
No reliable sources, eh? Well tell that to Jay Chou, who is now featured. There are actual news articles, such as ones in the Taipei Times, China Radio International (English), Sing Tao News, etc. etc. etc. But your # of users concern is fully valid, and yes, it is an incredible hassle, especially if you're doing it on your own. - Pandacomics 08:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Alright I'm just going by what kind of stuff I find when I do Google searches for Chinese pop stars. Some odd articles from online news sites, yes, but mostly blogs and fansites and forums. I admit I don't read the entertainment sections of Chinese news. But now that you brought up Jay Chou being featured, I would actually love to bring Leslie Cheung, Anita Mui, and Roman Tam up to featured status. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:10, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, I suggest you go directly to the Chinese pop music articles to see if you notice any editors that have been editing across different articles within the Chinese music industry. Lots of people always sign their names as a participant on a WikiProject or TaskForce, but the only ones who actually actively participate are those who had always been editing those topics to begin with, before the WikiProject or TaskForce was started up. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

So do I basically run around to those editors and see who'd want to start up a task force? - Pandacomics 18:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
It's more fruitful than leaving a message here in my opinion. Look at the majority of the discussions here, there's almost never any discussion about Chinese pop music. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:44, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Missing Chinese history topics

I have a list is missing topics related to Chinese history, though many of them are about military history. Due to sources, at least some of the titles are based on the previous transliteration, so I don't know how many of them could be only worth of redirect. Feel free to check - Skysmith 08:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Technology of the Song Dynasty

After passing Good Article status, I have put this article up as a Featured Article Candidate. Please review it and provide input/comments/objections/support at this page. Thank You.--PericlesofAthens 17:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

On another note, I have recently put the article Tang Dynasty up for peer review.--PericlesofAthens 17:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Help needed! barnstar offered...

WP:3K has been in a long slow grind to bring the Battle of Red Cliffs up to the quality where it can be submitted to WP:FAC with at least a decent chance of approval for Featured Article status. To that end, we are currently working on a "Location of Red Cliffs" section (see the article).

The Chinese Wikipedia has what appear to be some excellent info on the topic in a subsection about the battlefield's location. Unfortunately, and no offense to its various authors, it is very inadequately sourced. If we copied it word-for-word and sent it to FAC, every copied word would be challenged (and very rightly so!).

If anyone can track down full and complete references to all the info in that section, I will gladly give them a barnstar, or at least my undying gratitude. Everything in the section is uncited, but questions include:

  • Where/when exactly did Wang Li and Zhu Dongrun say that Jiayu was their preferred location? Give title, book publisher & year, or journal name & volume/issue, with exact pages, etc....
  • Any proof of these archaeological finds in Puqi in the 1970s? Give full references.
  • What is this " 年湖北大学人文学院出版了《古战场蒲圻赤壁论文集》赞同上述观点 by Hubei University College of Humanities published in 1991.. full references, including page numbers, please!)
  • ... and everything else.

--Ling.Nut 16:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Zen Merger

It was proposed in September 2006 that Zen Teacher/Zen Master be merged into Zen, but no discussion was made of it. If you are interested, please discuss here. JohnnyMrNinja 17:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Template talk

I started a conversation for template discussion here. Please join in. We need to decide which template to use to standardize on. There are too many floating around. Benjwong 19:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Conversation moved to here.

Battle of Gaixia

I have this page on my watchlist, and the article's recent expansion from a stub looks very suspicious. The article now looks like a blend of half-truths and hearsays, as some of the details I can't find in Shiji or Zizhi Tongjian. I have approached the editor responsible for it, User:CCHIPSS, for sources, but he didn't respond. So, seeing that I'm not so familiar with the subject, can someone take a look at the article to see if anything needs to be done? Thanks. _dk 06:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Rfc

See Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Jiejunkong. (Wikimachine 03:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC))

17th century Sino-Japanese Trade

Hiya. I've run into a serious stumbling block in my research, and I am hoping that you fellows could help.

We know that under the hai jin (海禁) policy, unofficial trade outside of the tribute system was (largely) banned as of 1557, if not earlier. In 1567, the ban was lifted for Southeast Asia - Chinese could now travel to, and trade in, Southeast Asian ports, but were still banned by the Ming government from traveling to Japan, or trading with Japanese in Japanese or Chinese ports.

Yet, as of the early 17th century (if not present as well in the late 16th century), there was a booming trade with Chinese merchants at Nagasaki; these merchants were not officially licensed nor officially representing the Ming court in any way, but as far as I am aware, they were not criminals, acting in outright violation of a ban.

So, what changed? and when? Is there a specific date or year at which the Ming court reversed their decision and decided to allow Chinese to travel to Japan? Thank you very much for your help. LordAmeth 12:27, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Pan Lei

This article is up for deletion, because it's a tiny stub with no information beyond birth and death dates and occupation. I was hoping someone from this WikiProject might be able to assist in finding out more about this person. Chubbles 23:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

more help with Red Cliffs (though no one replied to the earlier thread...)

Hey,

My poor thread a little higher on this page is sad & lonely... left all unanswered... so I'll post a new one to keep it company... Can anyone get electronic versions of any Chinese-language articles about the location of the Battle of Red Cliffs? Below are some that de Crespigny cites, but actually, anything would help:

  • Jiang Yongxing, [The site of the Red Cliffs of Zhou Yu], Lishi jiaoxue, Tianjin 1980.12, 50.
  • Shi Ding, [Some questions on the battle of the Red Cliffs], Shixue yuekan, Zhengzhou, 134 (1981), 8-17.
  • Shi Ding, [Examination of the Red Cliffs], Shehui kexue zhanxian, Changchun 13 (1981), 190-199.
  • Wu Yingshou and Zhang Xiugui, [Examination of the Red Cliffs], Fudan xuebao (shehui kexue) zengkan, Shanghai August 1980, 131-135
  • Wu Yongzhang and Shu Zhimei, [Discussion of the Red Cliffs], Jiang-Han luntan, Wuhan, 1979.1, 84-87.
  • Yang Guanyi and Ding Fang, [One opinion on the site of the Red Cliffs], Bulletin of the Chinese Historical Museum, Beijing 1979.1, 40-42
  • Zhang Zhizhe, [Discussion of mistakes on the Red Cliffs campaign], Xuelin manlu, Beijing, 1 (1980), 79-83.
  • Thanks Ling.Nut 15:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Dunno if this would help, but (I think) these are the Chinese names of the journals you're looking at:
历史教学; website: http://www.historyteaching.net/
史学月刊; website: http://sxyk.henu.edu.cn/
社会科学战线; an index and some articles at: http://cn.qikan.com/gbqikan/mag.asp?issn=0257-0246
复旦学报(社会科学版)增刊
江汉论坛; an index and some articles at: http://jhlt.periodicals.net.cn/gyjs.asp?ID=3304643
(dunno about the last two) --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
The last one is 学林漫录. Beware, though, coz I found this article [1] which says that your last source was plagiarised off the Fudan one. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Featured article review

Flag of the Republic of China has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Hadseys 01:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Standardizing Chinese Template

I would like to see if anyone has any last opinions on standardizing Template:Chinese as the main "graphical" template for Chinese articles. If you have any last minute comments please go here. We have fixed quite a number of issues over the past week. Benjwong 21:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

move

There is an ongoing poll for moving Senkaku Islands at Talk:Senkaku Islands. Mr. Killigan 04:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

The latin phonetic method of Shanghainese proposed for deletion

Please comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The latin phonetic method of Shanghainese if you are interested. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


Ask for intervention in the Korean War

I have a lengthy and fruitless dispute with some editors in this article.The core issue is about the in the infobox,someone prvide the American estimate of Chinese casualities,Which I found unecessary and innaccurate.Steps which I had tried follows,1),when I tried to point out the estimate from the enemy side is inable comparing their home roster number.People there cann't accept it.2),I found there's also the chinese estimate of american casualities,So I pose it in the info box,but it was quickly removed.So these editors cann't accept any sources they don't like.So following the NPOV policy,I am very curious about why the chinese estimate cann't be accepted,but no one can give a satisfied answer.Furthermore,when I found a more accruate chinese casualities figure link here[2],when I tried to replace it with the infobox one,men just revert it.3)And keep going on,when I found the failure of american sources about the amercian casualities,just looking at the Korean War Veterans Memorial which figure contradict the one in the infobox,they just tried to find excuse rather than accept the failure of american sources,the american casulities was miscaculated for 40 years without anyone notice,further more the american source about their allied was notorious invalid,some estimate ranges from 500K to 20000K,this sources cann't be seen as valid,because their internal absurdity.So I just pose the question why these invalid sources must be added in the infox?and why the chinese estimate cann't?4)Throughout the discussion,I perceived strong chaunvinist and nationalist views from some editors.Some editors claims the american sources are absolutely right,some editores votes for not pleasing the chinese and some claim Ksyrie,you have no place in english wikipedia.5)Final word,I tried to solve it in the wiki dispute precedure,but editors don't favor the mediation request,which I found strange,since we have disputed for so longtime,why not ask a mediation.And I want to ask a final arbitrition from the wiki board,which I found more neutral.They may follows more closely to the NPOV policy rather than the strong chauvinsit and nationalist experience which I perceive in the korean talk page.

I ask any of you look at the Talk:Korean War/Chinese Casualty Discussion and Talk:Korean War,and give me suggestion for whether or not,and how to make a valid arbition demand,and if possilbe,direct intervetion to the current talk page,which is full of biased statement.--Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 04:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

New Featured Article

Just to let everyone know, Technology of the Song Dynasty has passed the grueling and brutal gauntlet of spikes, axes, chains, and bats that is the FAC procedure these days. Hah. Check it out! It looks beautiful, like the Forbidden City lit up at midnight, or a supple young Chinese bride preparing to be deflowered on her wedding night.

Lol. I'll stop with the annoying similes now. Eric :) --PericlesofAthens 01:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and by the way, everyone needs to get off their *** and start competing with me, because so far I've passed 8 GA articles and 2 FA articles about China, and I've only been here since mid March.--PericlesofAthens 18:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, YOU forgot to put the FA star on your new FA! :) Congrats, man. I'm sorry I haven't been around to help more, I just haven't been in the Wiki-mood as much lately.--Danaman5 21:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Very impressive. Though the metaphor is rather inappropriate. I think I might take you up on that FA challenge... ;) -- 我♥中國 06:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I have one GA! YEAHHHHH!!! -___- Some of us aren't as natural as you are when it comes to writing. Pandacomics 17:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Modern Chinese music workgroup

If no one objects, then I'm going to be bold and start up the workgroup. There are three of us for now (me, Arsonal and Andrew Eng), but if anyone else wants to join, by all means, do. Pandacomics 20:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I've seen the work you've done in your Sandbox to set this up. Good job! I hope plenty of people join and stay active in the workgroup. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 20:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Ahhhhhh, something went wrong with the project banner. Can someone fix it? edit: Never mind. Fixed it. Pandacomics 03:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Chin Gee Hee

I recently started an article on Chin Gee Hee (陈宜禧). I can tell from a web search that there is a lot of material online about him in Chinese, if anyone feels like taking on a probably interesting project. (I do not speak or read Chinese.) Also, I believe that there is no article about him at all in the Chinese Wikipedia, which seems surprising. - Jmabel | Talk 07:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Rock Springs massacre

Hello everyone. The article Rock Springs massacre, while not tagged by this project probably falls within its scope. It is a current Featured article candidate, if anyone here has the time comments would be appreciated after reviewing the featured article criteria and comparing those to the article. You can see its entry and participate in the discussion at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Rock Springs massacre. This message is an attempt to jumpstart lagging discussion, talk page posts on WikiProject pages which have tagged the article went unnoticed as the three projects are less than active at this juncture. Thanks ahead of time. IvoShandor 09:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Yue Fei

I am the person who totally rewrote and expanded the Yue Fei page to its current status. I realize the page is no where near as good as it could be, but it's A LOT better than it was. The page was originally full of fiction presented as fact (not to say that the current page is totally free of that since even Yue's historical bios are steeped in myth). But since I have managed to pass Zhou Tong (archer), Yue's archery teacher, as FA-class I think more effort should be made to get this page up to standard. However, I don't feel like expanding the page myself since I have already done so much work to it. So, I hope that somebody here will take on the task.

I have in my possession a huge 621 page English language biography on Yue Fei written by Dr. Edward H. Kaplan. Here is the book's citation:

Kaplan, Edward Harold. Yueh Fei and the founding of the Southern Sung. Thesis (Ph. D.) -- University of Iowa, 1970. Ann Arbor: University Microfilms International, 1970.

I'm sure someone can track this down. The only place to find it is in univeristy libraries, but I'm sure you can get it with an inter-library loan through your local library. I know of a website that sells a made-to-order unbound reprint of the book for $41. It's a bit costly, but it's definitely worth it.(Ghostexorcist 20:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC))

Article for addition to the project

I think this article Along the River During Qingming Festival should be included in this project. I am not familiar with the banner requirements for this project, if anyone can quickly brief me on it. --Voidvector 09:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

"Today's featured article" watch

Very shortly, the current featured article will be switched over to Zhou Tong (archer), which is linked to this project. I realize that the featured article of the day is usually heavily vandalized. I must admit since I was the sole author that I would hate to see this page ruined by immature people and not be reverted to its original state (barring constructive edits).

I must leave for work soon and will not be able to monitor the page. I therefore ask that fellow members of the project watch over the page and revert any vandalism done to it. On top of that, I will not be able to reply to any questions left on the article's talk page until I get home. --Ghostexorcist 23:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Very good work,even in the chinese wikipedia,there's less qualified ariticle like this.--Ksyrie(Talkie talkie) 23:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)