Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive/April 2007

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Gwoyeu Romatzyh (information)

For your information, Gwoyeu Romatzyh has been a FAC since 26 March. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

There's currently a discussion about the use of colour-coding to highlight the tones in GR. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 09:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Update: promoted FA on 3 April. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Internet brigades

Some help is needed in making a potential article over here - about the alleged flooding of the internet with information used by a few governments (currently the Russians and the Chinese have been alleged of doing this). China's role is based on this article by Guardian Unlimited. The original article (which was very problematic and was deleted) was purely based on the FSB allegations, and an attempt is being made to make the future potential article more international. It is currently up for deletion review over here, where there is a tie of votes (9 to 9) between those who endorse its deletion and those who want it overturned and relisted.

This is a very controversial topic, but in my view there seem to be enough notable sources to make a decent article out of it, so I hope that someone here may be able to help. Esn 01:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

historical timeline

The sequence of Chinese History pages need a bit of organizing. Take a look at one of the pages from the equivalent Japanese History pages: Kemmu restoration.

  • each page has a bar on the right with the entire sequence of articles, the dynasties in chronological order
  • each page also has a bar at the base of the article with "previous" and "next" links

I'll add the History bar to any articles I see missing- but how does one make the bottom bar? brain 19:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that is some dynasties are simultaneous. I.e. they existed during the same time period. More prominently, the ROC and PRC both technically exist today. Thus a model based on the History of Japan model is rather impractical. Colipon+(T) 23:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
As Colipon suggested, the strict succession model employed in the Jp history articles is unsuitable because it implies clean-cut historical succession where it did not exist. This is also a problem with our current side bar. I suggest doing away with that too, and building a footer timeline using m:EasyTimeline.--Jiang 23:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I see- so basically the history sidebar needs to be re-engineered to reflect the simultaneous dynasties. I also noticed that at least three articles linked from the History bar #1 do not have the History bar themselves and #2 already have content on their right side, making addition of the History bar impractical.
  • Since I'm pretty new on this project I'm not really ready to do the new bar/timeline footer myself. Is there a more public place we can post the need for this? brain 04:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I haven't figured out how to use EasyTimeline yet so any help is needed.

We should add Template:Infobox Former Country to all the dynasty articles. There is a built in function in that template to show succession. Song Dynasty, for example, has the sidebar, but it is pushed down because of the infobox.

I can't think of anyplace else to post this, other than WP:VP--Jiang 21:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Beijing opera peer review

I have initiated a peer review for the article Beijing opera which can be found at Wikipedia:Peer review/Beijing opera/archive1. I invite you to comment.--Danaman5 05:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

List for ROC and PRC designations

Hi could I just get the thoughts of the people here about the proposed list for ROC and PRC naming desginations? (Scroll up) Colipon+(T) 04:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Guanmao vs. Chinese Crested Dog

Does anybody know if these are the same type of dog? - Peregrine Fisher 15:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes they are. Thanks for notifying, I have redirected Guanmao to the latter. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 17:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions, revert warring, and User:Privacy

In the discussion of naming conventions above, people were concerned that trying to impose one would lead to revert-warring, and about half of the votes in the straw poll were for leaving things alone. Now Privacy (talk · contribs) is trying to implement sweeping changes to article categories imposing a naming convention of his own. As I have already stated, there is no consensus on a naming convention and that is what my proposal was intended to fix. So here we have proof that not having a naming convention is not going to prevent revert wars, as that is exactly what Privacy does. --Ideogram 20:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Why are you saying "..we have proof that not having a naming convention.."? There is a current set of naming conventions. Just that you don't agree with it. My edits are based on the current set of naming conventions and DRV and CFD. - Privacy 20:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
How many times do I have to explain this to you? What is written there is clearly labeled disputed. I am not the only one reverting your edits; practically every category change you make gets reverted. Don't you think something is wrong here? --Ideogram 20:20, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
And there is no active discussion for the "disputes". Aren't you told? (see User talk:Privacy#Discuss please) You know how many guys are there keep reverting? Something wrong too? - Privacy 20:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I've been trying to have a discussion but no one is discussing. And there are more of us reverting than you. So until you get a consensus for your changes you won't accomplish anything. --Ideogram 20:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
You voted for the option to "leave everything alone". If you really want to fix all the naming exceptions, the honest thing to do would be to propose your own naming convention (you can paraphrase what is already there, since you seem to support it) and have people vote on implementing it. --Ideogram 20:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I voted to keep the current set of naming conventions, and to decide each article or category case by case based on the current set of naming conventions. I agree with the current set of naming conventions, and therefore I don't know why I have propose my own one. - Privacy 20:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Can you read? The proposal says "no mass renaming of articles." That is what Hong proposed and what you are doing is clearly not what she had in mind. --Ideogram 20:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
The lack of active discussion is part of the problem, not "cover" for continuing to engage in disputed behaviour. If people continue to try to conform the categories to the different schemes in their various heads without resolving the issue, this is going to end up back at WP:ANI and WP:RFAR. Alai 18:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Bilateral relations discussion

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Red Cliffs needs references

The Battle of Red Cliffs article has no references at all, which is a problem given its debate about troop numbers and casualties, etc. As an outside observer, I have a hard time accepting anything in the article, which is sad because an article about such a significant historical event really should be better. -- Exitmoose 00:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Beijing opera FAC

The article Beijing opera is now listed at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Beijing opera. I welcome your thoughts and suggestions.--Danaman5 18:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The article looks good. Good job. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

new article, new user

There is a new article Food Safety in the People's Republic of China created by a new user User:Lothringen I hope that members of this project can improve the article and welcome the new user into the community. Jon513 15:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

And the fact that this article is planted solely in a certain category is a tell-tale sign of sockpuppetry by banned user User:Instantnood.--Huaiwei 16:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn't he have named it Food Safety in Mainland China? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
After reviewing the contribution of User:Instantnood I think it is very unlikely for User:Lothringen to be a sockpuppet. User:Lothringen seem to only editwar; I cannot find a single contribution of his that adds any content. He wrote a few well sourced (albeit not using WP:footnotes) paragraphs) that seem to me to be NPOV (of course I am unfamiliar with China issue and I doubt I could tell if it was). In any even, we have to give any new user the benefit of the doubt. I would be a shame to chase away a good editor because he put an article in a controversial category. In fact, he didn't put it into any category until a robot labeled it as uncategorized! Jon513 19:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Portal:China

Portal:China is now re-submitted as a featured portal candidate. Visit the page and comment if you want. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 18:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Can someone PLEASE comment? AQu01rius (User • Talk) 06:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I've had a lot going on in real life the last couple days. I'll comment later today.--Danaman5 14:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

My comment was toward some other users. We need a automatic bot to develop a newsletter system to get all participants of this China project connected. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 17:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyone here? Please comment... I rather see bunch of opposes than no comment from the editors here. Argh! (AQu01rius • Talk) 06:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Global search and replace and edit warring by User:TingMing

Once again we have an example of how not having a naming convention does not prevent edit-warring.

TingMing (talk · contribs) is enforcing his own naming convention and edit-warring across dozens of Taiwan-related articles. He is not interested in discussing, he only reverts to his preferred version. --Ideogram 21:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

vague question, sorry

Hey do you have any idea what "Gudai Zhanzheng Yibailie" might mean, in the context of a book reference as follows: Wuhan Forces Headquarters Editing Division for the Research of Military Materials, Zhongguo, Gudai Zhanzheng Yibailie (Wuhan: Hubei Province People's Publishing House, 1979). Sorry, no tones & no Chinese chars. Thanks! Ling.Nut 01:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


Hmmmmmm It looks like it might be the "100 Ancient Chinese Military Records"...ish. I could be wrong. Maowang 01:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I found it — thanks! Ling.Nut 02:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

New Task Force for Workshop Chinese History

Hello everyone, Pericles here from WP Chinese History; I have a suggestion for a new task force alongside the military history task force found in the Chinese History Workshop.

I propose we initiate a new History of Science and Technology task force in the History workshop of WP China. I have noticed an enormous lacking in almost all articles on the subject here at wikipedia.org. Due to my edits, articles such as Zhang Heng, Ma Jun, Su Song, and Shen Kuo look much, much better than they did before (two of them were a month ago merely stubs with one or two sentences). I have also created new articles, such as Technology of Song Dynasty. However, I feel that help from others interested in the history of Chinese science and technology would be invaluable.

For example, it is going to be exhaustive editing and rewriting this mess: Chinese astronomy. Like Joseph Conrad's character Marlow sailing into the Heart of Darkness, I need some [wiki] buddies with me armed with some Winchester rifles (i.e. scholarly sources, lol) in order to make it through.

What does everyone think?

--PericlesofAthens 22:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Judging from the silence on this, I'm guessing no one really gives a **** about Chinese science and technology. Oh well, it would have made a great task force.--PericlesofAthens 08:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Ask on Talk:History of science and technology in China. In particular Grimhelm (talk · contribs) was instrumental in bringing that article to GA. You could also help add depth to that article, maybe bring it to FA. --Wang C-H 18:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, that's definitely going on my to-do list. Thanks for responding Wang.--PericlesofAthens 03:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Dayuan featured article review

Dayuan has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Nydas(Talk) 10:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Chengguan and Cui Yingjie

These articles could use some editing and additional sources. Cui Yingjie was prod'd recently. I removed the prod and improved the article. However I cannot read much Chinese, and can't do all the searching/sourcing I would like to do. Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks, Fang Aili talk 15:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I found a few articles about Cui Yingjie — but it's final exams week now and I should be studying ;-) I'll try to pitch in about a week or so from now.. --~~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ling.Nut (talk • contribs) 15:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC).


Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 FAR

Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 14:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Xiangqi FAR

Xiangqi has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 15:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)