Wikipedia talk:WikiProject CSI franchise

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Wikiproject_CSI franchise

This article is part of WikiProject CSI franchise, an attempt to improve content and create better coordination between articles related to the CSI franchise of TV shows, comics, novels and video games. You can help in improvement by editing WikiProject CSI franchise or related pages.
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Contents

[edit] Urgent tasks

OK, the major gap in the articles that we have are episode articles for all three shows and lists of cast members and characters for CSI:Miami and CSI:NY. I have a lot of CSI:Vegas on DVD, so I'll start writing more episode articles for it. If anyone could help with Miami and NY, especially the new series of Miami (not yet aired in the UK), could they work on the episodes and lists for the two spin-offs. For images of characters, visit Yahoo, the website used for the CSI:Vegas character list. Editus Reloaded 09:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Right, forget that. I suggest using the photos from their individual character articles instead (saves time, no risk of copy violation). Editus Reloaded 17:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone has been breaking links so that they do not work from the main episode list. However, the articles remain. I will get to fixing them.

Rome Leader 22:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

The main templates are a concern for me. I've raised the issue here but this might be the best venue. Basically I think we need 4 templates - strip the current 3 of the common content (links to the franchise, comics, novels, etc.) to make a main template and then you can mix and match: All 4 on the main franchise page; the main one and the relevant one on most pages; and just the main one on some of the others (like comics and novels). That would allow maximum flexibility and reduce redundancy.

Thoughts? (Emperor 20:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC))

Yeah, that seems like a better plan, having {{Template:CSI franchise}} and {{Template:relevant show}}. I'll work on that; I think there's already a general template for the franchise so I can use that as a basis. My work in progress will be here. Editus Reloaded 09:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, templates done. The show templates are v.3 and the franchise template is v.1. For past versions, see here. Editus Reloaded 09:51, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

OK I did some tidying up - we don't need 2 links to things in the same small template. Next step is to add the hide wrapper to them. (Emperor 13:05, 12 May 2007 (UTC))
I'm not sure that we need to add the hide wrapper; the templates aren't that big (compared to, say {{Template:James Bond characters}}). Editus Reloaded 15:12, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
OK. We'll keep an eye on things and see how it goes. What we might want to do is make them all a standard 80% width. (Emperor 15:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC))
On reflection it still needs doing. It isn't just for large templates it is more when multiple templates combine. Compare Judge Dredd vs. Aliens vs Aliens versus Predator versus The Terminator. The former has two templates both of which has can be hidden, the seocnd only has one. I have requested a hide wrapper for the Terminator one but in the meantime you can see how important it is. (16:27, 12 May 2007 (UTC))
An idea for anothe row - Crossovers: "Cross Jurisdictions" "MIA/NYC NonStop" "Felony Flight"/"Manhattan Manhunt" "Cold Reveal" (Emperor 16:28, 12 May 2007 (UTC))
Not a bad idea, but perhaps only add crossovers to the shows where they are relevant, e.g. MIA/NYC NonStop appears in {{CSI Miami}} and {{CSI NY}} but not in {{CSI: Crime Scene Investigation}}. Editus Reloaded 15:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Another idea. I was adding the template to the video games and it occured to me that it'd make sense to add the 4 CSI (Vegas) video games to the CSI (Vegas) template and the Miami game could be added to the relevant template too. Kind of makes sense with splitting the specific things off to the relevant sections. (Emperor 14:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC))
Good idea, I'll get on it. Editus Reloaded 17:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk header

I've added it here and we need it spread around as much as possible. Use: {{Template:WikiProject CSI}} (Emperor 15:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC))

Anyone know why the image is displaying so small? Has there been a change in the styles of the box we are using or something? (Emperor 21:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Episode links

Most of the episodes lack links so I wanted to kickstart a discussion on appropriate links so we can target the issue. I added what I think are OK at MIA/NYC NonStop - let me know what you think. CSI Guide would also be easy to template to make things easy for everyone. Once we have more people on board we can have people go through the entries and drop in the links. It should really help beef things up on that front. Also once there is a standard as new entries get created they should all get done to the same standard. (Emperor 18:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC))

Yeah, that's about the right number of external links, especially since we can use the sites to write episode plot summaries (not word for word obviously). On a related note, many episodes do not have articles at all, and most that do do not have - in my opinion - sufficient detail. Others, notably the pilot episode of CSI Vegas contain far too much; from my experience at WP:007, it is possible to write an 800-word summary of a 2 hour film. On that basis, summaries for 40-minute episodes should run to no more that 250-300 words. I will begin work on this as soon as I have finished sorting the list of CSI:Miami cast members, but please start before me if you want to ;). Editus Reloaded 15:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

OK good. I've been tidying up a few episodes (there is a lot of over disambiguating anf the next and previous links were a mess) and I'll add links in there. Would a Template:csiguide episode be worth doing? All you need do is add te ID and name of the episode and you'd have the link. If we are going to do that I'd rather we did it now than have to go through and fix a lot of entries. I can't see CSI Files being so easy to do but if we aim for a standard 4 links (as shown in the example) and 3 of them run from templates that would be ideal. (Emperor 16:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC))
Yeah, go for it if you think you can do it (I can't...). Editus Reloaded 17:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Damn I was hoping to delegate ;) I'll give it a shot. (Emperor 17:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC))
Sorry, but I don't know enough markup to do that (see my attempt at a userbox above). You can use User:Editus Reloaded/CSI test page if you need a place to put work in progress. Editus Reloaded 17:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
No worries I just sorted it out. It wasn't difficult and I used the TV.com episode template. You can add the link in using: {{csiguide episode|id=156|title=MIA/NYC NonStop}} but it will also work in a trimmed down form if the page title is the one you want (i.e. not disambiguated like MIA/NYC NonStop): {{csiguide episode|156}} I also made you a cat to put all the CSI templates in: Category:CSI templates. Enjoy (Emperor 17:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC))
I've added the links and templates to the crossovers/pilot and first episodes so hopefully if someone is making a new entry they'll base it on them. I'll also look into adding them to the last episodes too just in case. Its going to be slow but hopefully if people making new entries can use that then it'll save a lot of extra work. (Emperor 19:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Notice board

It'd be handy to have a notice board for adding things in to let people know what is going on in the general area. All they need to is watch that and they can keep an eye on developments. An example: Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/Notice Board. For example we have a lot of episodes that need creating. As they are made they could be added to the "new entries" list and then people can drop in and check them over to make sure everything is standard and working and they can add any additional infomration. That kind of thing. It can also keep a track on merges, deletions, renamings, moves and any other issues that might arise. (Emperor 14:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

Yeah, that's kind of what "Article Updates, Creations" was for, but perhaps a separate page is the way to go. I'll try to set one up based on the example you gave, but I'm under study pressure as well, so anyone with the time and the inclination could do it too. By the way, opinions on the new userbox? Editus Reloaded 17:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-free content

Both your userbox and logo for the talk-page box contain fair-use images which are not allowed outwith the article namespace, please fix. Thanks, GDonato (talk) 15:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The font is here and is free to use. I'll knock up something now. (Emperor 18:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC))
A quick run through: B&W and with glow (Emperor 19:17, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

Template:Good Looks good GDonato (talk) 20:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

God, this licensing stuff is a drag. To summarize: it can be used in the article namespace, but not any other namespace. Could you point me to a policy page or similar where this is explicitly stated? Editus Reloaded 17:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
WP:FUC, what you're thinking perhaps? ;-) GDonato (talk) 17:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Criterion #9... of the cabal decree official policy. GDonato (talk) 17:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
You can find discussion of such things on WP:FAIRUSE - see under unacceptable uses. So you can use the CSI screenshot as fair use on the main CSI entry but you can't then just put it on every relevant page or say a page about forensic science on TV unless it was specifically illustrating a point. I think. Something like that. It makes my head hurt ;) (Emperor 18:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC))
Yep, only if it is irreplaceable, used, not overused, in articlespace, legal, important, poorer than the original and for video and music not in its entirety etc, etc, etc. GDonato (talk) 18:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Fixed userbox. Editus Reloaded 09:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd also imagine this applies to Template:WikiProject CSI (Emperor 16:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC))
I can see a problem arising here; most images relating to CSI are going to be fair use (DVD covers, promo shots, copyrighted logos) so we can't really put any images outside articlespace. If anyone stumbles across a plentiful source of free-licence CSI images, put a link in the resources section (soon to be created) on the project page. Editus Reloaded 17:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image removal

A number of the boxes for the CSI (video games) are being removed as non-free content due to lack of a license. See e.g.: Talk:CSI: Dark Motives, Talk:CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (computer game) and Talk:CSI: Miami (computer game). This is part of a wider ongoing process to tighen up the justifications for using them and I believe adding in one is (so I'm told) fairly straightforward. If someone could sort that out it'd save the hassle of having to add them in again (when we'd only have to provide the justification) I need to go and flag similar things in other projecs. (Emperor 12:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC))

OK, I fixed that annoying bit of legalese for the cited cases and for CSI:3 Dimensions of Murder. Just in case Jerry Bruckheimer and the head of UBI come round to my house with some hired goons to ask how I dared to use an image belonging to them. Did I mention that I hate legalese? Editus Reloaded 10:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of ... cast members

Looking at List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation cast members, I think we should dump everyone who's only in one episode, if we're going to keep this at all. Otherwise these list pages are going to become obscene. Using Law and Order as a basis, they call their page "a list of major, notable, and recurring characters" on their page and I think that's the way we should go. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 14:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Unless they contribute significantly to the plot, e.g. Ellie Rebecca Brass has appeared twice in the series, but was portrayed by different people on each occasion, so both actresses should stay in the list. Another example is the Blue Paint Killer, who only actually appears once, but is mentioned in seasons 3 and 5. Editus Reloaded 14:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ditto Holly Gribbs ;) Natch. Though I question Method Man. It's big for him, but does it matter to the CSI universe? Notability is such a bear! -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 14:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, he IS a recurring character (very technically recurring, 2 eps only).Editus Reloaded 15:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Was just fixing the above, query arose: do we put Teri Miller in "Recurring Characters"?. Editus Reloaded 15:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

---moved discussion to Talk:List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation cast members--- Editus Reloaded

[edit] A Grizzly Murder

A Grizzly Murder was created so User:Jerzy could ask if Ed Beagly Jr was in the episode. Since no other eps from that season are written, I put the article up for deletion. There's nothing of use on the page that's worth saving anyway. If we can get back to it later, we can rewrite it properly. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 15:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Discussion of this matter is in progress where it belongs, at Talk:A Grizzly Murder#"CSD" & "hangon" tags, altho perhaps WProj participants will want to discuss here the more general implications of this contrib'r's opinion.
--Jerzy•t 19:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
FYI, I posted this here so that people who watch this page (and not the episode) would be made aware and could step up and comment/hangon/etc as wanted. It was intended to keep the project aware of what messes I'm stirring up :) -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 19:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging List of ... cast members and List of ... characters

I've proposed a merge because it seems redundant to have both. See the discussion here (where I've put my rational). -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 15:10, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Episode lists and season pages

I kinda-sorta got the List of CSI<foo> episode pages back on track, but the CSI <foo> (season <bar>) pages need some serious reformatting to use the right templates. It's grunt labor, I'm afraid, but it also brings up the worry that some of the episode links are ... well wrong. We shouldn't need to have the qualifier (CSI episode) on all the pages. Sure, Run Silent, Run Deep is going to need one, but Necrophilia Americana shouldn't. This is going to end up monkey work to go through the redlinks, see what should and shouldn't be qualified, and then go back and see what's pointing to what. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 15:54, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't really understand understand the problem with the CSI season pages. What templates are you referring to? Are you referring, perhaps, to the colour-coding of seasons for Miami and NY? Maybe I'm being a bit knee-jerky, but I wrote most of the season lists so I'd be interested in the feedback. With regards to the "(CSI episode)" qualifier, I suggest removing all qualifiers and see what kind of weird stuff it points to. But in many cases ("What's Eating Gilbert Grissom", "The Execution of Catherine Willows" etc) I agree, we clearly don't need the qualifier. As far as I am aware, there are no other Gil Grissoms, Catherine Willowses, Warrick Browns etc past or present. Editus Reloaded 16:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I mean there's a template called Episode list, for use on pages like CSI: NY (season 2), instead of manually handling each table, and it's preferable to use the approved template, per the WP:Episode project. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 16:25, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I thought we were using that on season articles, see CSI:Vegas Season 1 source code. Editus Reloaded 16:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Right, I was talking about both the general 'every episode list page' and the individual season pages at once. Thus creating confusion for everyone! Yay! -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 16:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Checked redlinks on Vegas seasons 1-5. Editus Reloaded 16:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Just to clarify: you are suggesting using Template:Episode list on both the individual episode lists (e.g. CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (season 1)) and the main ones (e.g. List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation episodes) just leaving out the "ShortSummary" parameter? So that all of them would run from one well understoof template? If so that seems to make sense. I am unsuer what it looks like without "ShortSummary" - can you mock up an example in your sandbox we can look at? We can then have a look at it and see if looks OK and then possibly roll it out on CSI:NY and see how it goes? That is if my assumptions are correct. ;) (Emperor 18:31, 8 June 2007 (UTC))
Yeah, definitely roll it out on CSI: NY, but hang fire on Miami and Vegas (less work if it looks bad). Editus Reloaded 19:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree there is a degree of over-disambiguating and have been trying to address them on the pages I've been working on (I worked out from the crossover episodes like Cross Jurisdictions). When I've added the links I've checked the next and previous links to make sure they are optimised and not over ambiguated. It will take a bit of work to make sure the episode lists and the next and previous match and it may be there are a few moves that will need to be done in the future but it is coming together. (Emperor 17:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC))
Now that I've reread (and reread and reread and reread) your comment Ipstenu, I think you are suggesting we apply {{episode list}} to the full "all episodes ever" lists. I strongly disagree because the current lists are clear and legible and we do not need all the detail from the season ep lists in the full list (unnecessary duplication). BTW, I have started phasing in some elements of List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation cast members into List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation characters; I am going to completely sub in the rest after we resolve the major/minor character issue (Judge Cohen is still a villain, I say!). Editus Reloaded 18:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Oh and if an episode does need disambiguating then it is worth checking that it is mentioned on the relevant disambiguation page. A quick skim through CSI: Miami reveals the first couple I checked weren't so I've updated the disambiguation page. (Emperor 18:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC))

Eeek! No no no! I'm thinking for Episode List on the "CSI: NY (season 2)" type pages, not the all over list-of! Unless we could get it to ignore the summary field, which I recall it leaves in as a weird space when not in use. Sorry, not enough caffeine in my system today. That was a bad explanation on my part! And seeing as I'm the one who listified the heck out of NY and Miami just recently, I'd look pretty silly ;) -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 19:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

:OK, I get it now. You want to do to NY seasons 2+3 what I did to Miami S1-5 and NY S1. It's a cow of a task, you have to copy all the data from the old table format to the new template format 1 episode at a time. How about we split the load - you do season 2 and I do season 3? Editus Reloaded 21:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: Done NY season 3 and fixed colours for Miami season lists. Editus Reloaded 22:00, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Ignore, I have reformatted seasons 2 and 3
Yeah, obviously I've found the high grade crack. I'd been working for 36 hours so my editing skills got down to 'vandal bad, font pretty'. Otherwise I would have just done it and not tossed it out there for others. Thanks, Editus :) You do great work. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 16:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
No problem (head inflates slightly more). Editus Reloaded 17:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Advice needed: creating screenshots

I am trying to find images of characters to add to various CSI character articles (specifically: The Blue Paint Killer, Mandy Webster, Archie Johnson and David Hodges) and have resolved to take screenshots from DVDs, but I have encountered a technical problem. My process is this:

  1. I load the DVD on my PC, play the episode in Windows Media Player, then pause it at the required point
  2. I take a screenshot and copy it into Paint
  3. I resize the image, crop it to show only the screenshot (not the window and taskbar) and save it. Job done, right?

Wrong. When I save the image, or close Media Player, the image goes black. If I do neither, and press Play in Media Player, the image in Paint begins to move in synch with the version displayed on M.P. Any advice? Editus Reloaded 20:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Use VLC instead (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/) - It'll let you screenshot better. -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 02:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I'm going to stop short of downloading new software, last time I did that my Internet security package bared its digital teeth and removed the file. New idea: photograph the paused screen with a digital camera. This should be interesting. Editus Reloaded 09:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
OH YES!! It worked! OK, so Kevin Greer's face is a bit in shadow, but then he is an evil (if fictional) serial killer, he needs to look a bit scary. Editus Reloaded 09:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Right-click Desktop > Properties > Settings Tab > Advanced > Troubleshoot Tab > Set Hardware Acceleration to None. This will enable you to take screenshots using Print Screen. Don't forget to turn the setting back after you're done taking screenshots. — Sandtiger 14:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How to fix unreferenced articles?

There are some articles (Who Shot Sherlock?, Viva Las Vegas (CSI episode)) that have

 This article does not cite any references or sources. (June 2007)
Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.

at the bottom of their page. How are we supposed to make references in an article? The only references I would know to make are to the episode itself, and that seems redundant. -Freak104 13:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Quick answer: here. Copy and paste the code for the 4 links and change the bits to make it applicable to the specific episode. See e.g. Cross Jurisdictions.
I have been quickly dropping in the templates and outlining the external links section with that tag, then going through and filling them in. All of season 4 is done (and so is the first half of season 1). I started working down through the end of season 6 into season 7 from Way To Go (CSI episode) and was aiming to sort out those from season 5 (so that when the other entries appear it is easy to continue them on and fill the details in) - feel free to get stuck in there (many hands make light work and all that). I've found it easiest to work through in order as you can move along the navigation at TV.com to the next episode. It is still a bit of a grind but can make things go more smoothly.
While you are doing that it is worth checking the next and previous links to remove redirects and drop the CSI project template into the talk page - things should rapidly get joined up and all be at the same standard (I think season 5 is OK as I went through a while ago but keep a beady eye out). (Emperor 14:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC))
I have also created an episode template which is based on the articles for the pilot of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, which contains in its source all the episode templates which Emperor created. You might equally want to look at the source for Grave Danger (CSI episode), which is much better now that it has been merged and includes an example of critical commentary that we would do well to include in all our articles. Editus Reloaded 16:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Good one. That'll be very useful. We should be able to hammer in the missing episodes using that. Certainly looks like the project has paid off in getting the work done ;) (Emperor 18:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC))
As of now, all the episodes in Seasons 1 and 2 have external links (imdb, tv.com, csi guide, csi files) and wp csi template on the talk page. I'm the queen of cut and paste. --Hburdon 22:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Add to it Season 3 and 4. Season 5 has been done up to episode 14. By the way: is there a reason why the IMDb template has the episode title in italics, and the other templates in quotation marks? Or is it simply a mistake? --Hburdon 20:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Good work. As it stands the IMDB template is setup for movies in which the title is put in italics. It might be worth aspking if they could include "episode=Viva Las Vegas" and the formatting would then put the title in quotes. (Emperor 20:09, 13 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Episode notability

I noticed a lot of the Futurama episodes have been tagged as not complying with WP:EPISODE and I'd like to head this off at the pass before the tags start flying. They are largely failing on the simpler WP:V by not including IMDB, TV.com links which we have worked to address, but reading through the episode notability guidelines it does look like we'll need to raise our game once we've done the initial run through and got the episodes up to standard. So things to keep an eye out for:

  • Interesting tidbits on the DVD commentary. Not only can we use this but it could also allow us to chase a lead.
  • Reviews or other commentary in newspapers. I did a quick search of the NY Times [1] and there are a tonne of mentions. Some of these are minor or unrelated but some might have some relevance to other sections (the CSI effect seems to crop up)
  • Look for academic papers. Acadmics love hooking their ideas into popular culture as well as it being a legitimate focus for study in its own right. Some sample searches [2] [3]. Some good stuff there [4] [5] [6] [7]. If there is anything that looks tasty and isn't freely accessible we should be able to scare it up.
  • Check out the various books that look at the episodes [8] as they can provide useful references for a lot of things.

This would then let us aim for extra sections which would help provide notability as well as showing the importance of the episode:

  • Reception - reviews, viewing figures, etc. As CSI regularly tops the charts we can really hammer that home along with reviews and overviews. For example the big numbers for Grave Danger and its hammering of the opposition were newsworthy [9]
  • References - the show often uses pop culture references, real-life cases or (often obscure) medical conditions like Bloodlines (CSI episode) which touched on chimarism. So for the episode's references, perhaps: "This episode deals specifically with chimerism. The DNA results seemed to indicate a family member but they had tested all those they could find. However, when Grissom is examining ?? with the UV light he notices the distinctive markings on his back. There is also a chimera statue seen in his office" This kind of detail would be best left out of the plot for brevity's sake.
  • Production - writers, directors, actors, locations and anything else that came up behind the scenes.
  • Continuity - I have been adding relevant episodes but it might be that different story arcs can be plotted. Greg moving from lab rat to full-blown CSI for example. We are also doing something similar with recurring characters (like Lady Heather, for example) but it'd be worth plotting other elements.

I was looking at how it is done at Buffy (e,g, The Harvest (Buffy episode)) and, while their production seems to be an excuse for trivia (quotes and music - the kind of thing specifically verboten according to episode notability), the way they divide things up looks solid. I especially like the cast section which would be handy for the guest stars too.

So hopefully we can stay ahead of the curve which should mean we can learn from any mistakes other TV episodes make and so avoid going through any hassle on the deletion/notbility front which of course should result in a very solid set of entries (we should easily be able to shape up some solid examples like Grave Danger and Fur and Loathing to help people base their work on). Everyone wins :) (Emperor 17:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC))

I agree with everything here; if we took some types of information from the cited Buffy production section (an example for CSI would be George Eads' and Jorja Fox's clash with the producers in early season 3, when the pair staged a walk-out and were briefly fired) and combined it with the Comparison section of Grave Danger to create a new section called Critical analysis or something like that? Therefore I would suggest the following layout for CSI episode articles:
(0.) Article lead paragraph, infobox, ToC
  1. "Summary"
  2. "Plot", full A and B storylines
  3. "Critical Analysis", details on cultural references, production notes, comparison to other works (go Grave Danger!)
  4. "Continuity", notes on ongoing plot hooks, and a list of related episodes (so Pilot would contain links to Anonymous and Identity Crisis, the other Millander episodes
  5. "See also"
  6. "References"
  7. "External links"
(8.) franchise and show navboxes
Editus Reloaded 18:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. We can fit viwing figures and reviews under a general reception heading under critical analysis. What about a Cast section? We could then have a fairly standard list of the main cast and add in minor cast (infrequently occuring regulars) and guest stars. (Emperor 20:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC))
Hmm....we have a navbox for guest stars, and the main characters' names should be wikified the first time they appear in the article, as in this paragraph from Grave Danger:

20 minutes later, police officers and CSIs swarm the scene. Ecklie arrives and assures Grissom and Catherine that "the crime lab only has one case tonight". As they search the scene, they find Nick's stab vest, camera and kit lying on the ground. They see the bagged coffee cup and realise that Nick didn't bag it.

Editus Reloaded 11:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Righto. (Emperor 19:53, 5 July 2007 (UTC))
For an example of successful (I hope!) implementation of this new layout, see episode 201 Burked before and after. Editus Reloaded 18:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Very good. Perhaps we should have a short list of examplars as that would be ideal. It is solid and well rounded and would stand up well to scrutiny. (Emperor 18:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Episode articles

I would like to bring two points to the attention of project members:

  1. There is a distinct lack in episode articles; currently missing are:
    1. CSI: Las Vegas episodes 5.05 to 5.10, 5.14 to 5.23, most of Season Six. Many of the articles contain only summaries (The Execution of Catherine Willows for example)
    2. CSI: Miami, almost every episode from 1.12 onwards
    3. CSI: NY, every episode except for Manhattan Manhunt (2.07) and Heroes(2.23)
  2. Following discussion above, there is a framework for episode articles available at Wikipedia:WikiProject CSI franchise/Episode template

Given that the episodes make up the bulk of the articles under this project's purview, we really need to flesh out the existing articles and create new ones. Editus Reloaded 09:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming conventions

On the list of episodes it is Snow Day (CSI: NY episode) but other links point to Snow Day (CSI episode). Can we get a decision on this? I doubt the different series will have episodes with the same name. (Emperor 23:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC))

Note the CSI Miami episodes are just (CSI episode): Category:CSI: Miami episodes so if we are going to adjusting the naming we'd need to do it asap. (Emperor 01:22, 15 July 2007 (UTC))
Note CSI season 1 and 2 are being changed to (CSI) which is inline with naming conventions so we need to keep that in mind. I'd suggest sticking to (CSI) for all franchises unless there happens to be one of the same name (which is doubtful but they might do something weird one day with a triple crossover of the same name - who knows?) in which case (CSI:NY) would be OK. (Emperor 04:16, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Articles cat

I am curious about this cat: Category:CSI: Crime Scene Investigation articles - it seems like it is intended to include every CSI entry and I don't see the point (it'll be too large and too general to be of any use - people would always go to the more specialised version). I also work on a number of projects and none of them do anything like this. (Emperor 00:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC))

When you say "specialised", do you mean specialised by show e.g. Cat: CSI Vegas, Cat: CSI: Miami and Cat: CSI:NY, by theme e.g. CSI characters, CSI episodes or some combination of the two? Editus Reloaded 07:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes. All the entries are already sorted into a specific category which is helpful for people looking for other similar entries. Lumping everything into a catch-all category doesn't seem to serve any purpose and is less helpful and not as easy to use. (Emperor 13:08, 19 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] CSI: London

CSI: London Do we really need this at the moment? (Emperor 19:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC))

No we don't -- Ipstenu (talk • contribs) 20:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Episode list templte

Random clicking took me to Hell on Earth 2006 and I note they use the optional episode list template and it looks good and has the potential to be useful. If people are interested I could throw together an example for us to look at to see if it works. (Emperor 16:08, 20 July 2007 (UTC))

Yep, looks more useful. I saw something similar at Yankee White (NCIS). Editus Reloaded 16:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Make that Hung Out to Dry (NCIS). I'm knocking up an example here, but I'm off on holiday next week so you might want to change/delete/steal bits. Editus Reloaded 16:54, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
OK cool - I'll have a crack at that. (Emperor 17:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC))
Done. Have a look and see what you think. (Emperor 18:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC))
I'll put the template into Pilot to see how it fits in with the rest of the article, layout-wise; if it doesn't chuck paragraphs and stuff all over the place, we can leave it in as I can't see this being a controversial change. Editus Reloaded 18:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
OK cool. If everything looks OK and the formatting is fine I'll rollout the others. (Emperor 18:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC))
I've just put it in and it looks fine, so could you start putting the new infobox in across seasons 1 and 2 (using the episode list templates from the project page) while I get on with the *fun* of creating the rest of the lists for CSI:Vegas. Editus Reloaded 18:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Righto. (Emperor 18:56, 20 July 2007 (UTC))
Seasons 1 and 2 done - anymore and my brain would turn to jelly ;) (Emperor 19:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Gil Grissom

Ok, people tonight i've worked a lot in these article so as to have at least one descent character article (within the project) from which it's possible to template the others. I would like other people to revise it, and maybe later get it nominated to a good article status. By the way, how come we haven't made CSI worthy of being nominated for a good article?? The people of 24 are beating us, even Lost has a better article. Let's make CSI featured article by the end of the month COME ONNNN who's with me? --Yamanbaiia 01:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Agree in principle, but bear in mind we are NOT in competition with other TV show projects/task forces. Though you can think of it in that way if it helps you get motivated. Personally, I can't see why CSI is not a perfectly reasonable GA candidate. Editus Reloaded 18:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Nominated CSI:Crime Scene Investigation for GA. I think I'm impartial enough, as I have made minimal edits to the article, but to head off accusations of self-promotion, perhaps a quick task for someone new to the project would be to review it for GA status and either pass or fail it? That would expedite the process without anyone who contributed heavily acting as their own judge. Editus Reloaded 17:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
HAHA! i was just kidding! of course it's not a competition, although it does bother me that Smallville has a featured article!!  :p ...anyway, i haven't been editing for long, although i did a lot in many CSI's articles, i'll review itYamanbaiia 20:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick note to say the good work being done on the Gil Grissom article has got it close to GA status. It'd be handy if any other members could stop in and give their thoughts. (Emperor 02:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Leapin Lizards

A few issues have emerged and it'd need some input - I have thrown some thoughts onto the talk page. (Emperor 23:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Episode Summaries

I'm just a Wikipedia reader but I was reading through some CSI episode summaries and they seem directly lifted (cut and pasted) from those at TV.COM. I would think that most of the content of the series pages would be written by fans and would be original material. Or perhaps the same person is writing summaries for both websites. Suspicious summaries are those that are just about a paragraph long, 3-6 sentences, and which provide no conclusion to the plot (TV.com discourages spoilers).Nwjerseyliz 01:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Can you point some out? I've done a few (longer ones) and have been through most of the entries but I suppose I wasn't looking out for such suspicious activity (one concern was over long plot summaries). If it is too close for comfort we need to move on this quickly and sort it out asap, so thanks for bringing this up. (Emperor 02:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Season 6 problems

There are a few problems with season 6 (from about episode 12 on - sporadically) - it looks like the initial run through sketched out the episodes to stub level but there were gaps. Some of these have been filled but the content is just about a stub and in some cases less than that. Some have been tagged for lacking notability - I Like To Watch, The Unusual Suspect and Rashomama), some should be (Spellbound (CSI episode)) and one has been redirected to the episode list (Killer). It looks like we'll have to do a few runs through to make sure things are expanded and up to standard or we could see the entries starting to be rolled back taking out better quality work. I'll try and address the most obvious problems (like Spellbound and try and sort Killer out) but it will require a bit of effort and I'm short on time so any extra hands would be handy. (Emperor 04:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

No pun intended. (Emperor 04:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC))
I'm right now fixing the link for Killer (CSI episode), i'll create later today Bang-bang (CSI) and Up In Smoke (CSI).Yamanbaiia 13:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Great. I'll get cracking on the other two that are barely adequate.
What I've done is create {{CSI season 6 episode list}} in line with season 1 and 2 templates I mention above. I have added these in only on season 6 articles with the full set of links we give in the episode templates on the thinking that those entries will need those links putting in and so the person doing that can drop in the season list - for an example of what it looks like see: Werewolves (CSI episode).
On a sidenote I have done exactly the same thing with season 7, {{CSI season 7 episode list}}, and the only articles with the right links are the first two and the last one so when someone (it has been on my to do list for a while now) runs through them and adds the links they can add the season list.
I have also started the season 8 list, {{CSI season 8 episode list}}, and added to the episodes along with the right links. That is tricky for me over in Blighty as I am trying to avoid reading any spoilers on the pages while editing them but it seems to have gone OK. I have also dropped the two editors who started the season 8 episodes a link to the episode template so hopefully both approaches should make sure the season 8 episode articles roll out in a form that doesn't require a lot of remedial editing (as we are having to do for season 6) to bring them up to standard and we can focus providing real world context, continuity, etc. and getting them properly fleshed out (when they are actually shown over here anyway). (Emperor 14:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC))
OK Daddy's Little Girl (CSI episode) and Spellbound (CSI episode) are up to a reasonable stub as they were the worst two (other than Killer). The next ones that need work are the three with notability concerns flagged (I Like To Watch, The Unusual Suspect and Rashomama) and then the rest of the season 6 episodes need checking through and links and templates adding where required. I'm pretty much done for now (as I've got other things that need doing) but will see what I can do later in the week. (Emperor 15:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] To do

I've added a to do list (first time I've done that) and added in the general season 6 clean-up with articles that need doing, expanding or bringing out of notability. Also noted that we should be working to expand season 8 as we go along (much easier than paying catch-up later) - although this will depend on when each of us get to watch them but once I do I'll try and jump in and see what I can do (Emperor) —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 15:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Season 8 is getting out of control, there are at least two articles of each episode. also Season 6 has been completly ignored, i've written two episodes but for the others (empty or stubs) copy-paste could be done from CBS and screenshots from crimelab.nl, just so as to have something.Yamanbaiia 15:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes I think I have wrangled season 8 under control - as I say it is tricky for me as I'm in the UK so have been avoiding the very latest articles as they get created but I don't think that is an option as it has left season 7 lacking links and the like so I've done what I can to start merging the season 8 entries, I've sketched out the correct structure and will keep an eye out for future episode announcements so I can make sure they are redlinked in to avoid this mess again.
One thing though - we can't fill up the season 6 entries with copy and pastes from CBS' site as that is copyright violation and would have to be removed so we'd be back to square one. All we can do is make sure they are up to at least a good stub level (which in most cases means adding links and the navbox templates) and take it from there. It is obviously a bog job so it is going to be a work in progress and copy and pasting from elsewhere isn't really a shortcut we can take I'm afraid.
Although you removed the mention it is worth noting that the naming (where disambiguation is required) should be "Name (CSI)" following Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/How to write an episode article#Naming - someone has changed season 1 and 2 and I will keep an eye open for others that have yet to be created. Obviously this will take quite a bit of effort but should be easy enough to spot and work through older articles as long as we make sure the new ones conform to save on effort later. (Emperor 16:15, 7 October 2007 (UTC))
This has been one fun Sunday huh?, i saw the whole season 1 and Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/How to write an episode article#Naming, thats why i deleted my message. i will redirect episodes in the future when i see them. The CBS guide is usefull to remember what happened on the episodes, sorry for suggesting the copy-paste, this copyright stuff sometimes slips me. by the way you can remove Bang-bang (CSI) and Killer (CSI) from the to do list.Yamanbaiia 16:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure I had other things planned for today but perhaps this is what Sundays are for ;)
Given the problems flagged above we have to keep an eye out for direct copy and pasting - it could easily come back and bite us on the ass. I notice the season 8 summaries seem to be lifted straight from TV.com/TVGuide.com but given the fact that this is ubiquitous (CBS PR releases?) and is all there is so it'd be almost impossible to rewrite it'd be worth letting this slide as long as a completely new version is dropped in asap. That said it is probably always best to err on the side of caution and have nothing instead of copyright violation - at least that way it'd avoid problems and it'd encourage people to add something.
I'll update the to do now but note that the point of the to do is that anyone can edit it so everyone should feel free to edit it - I just threw those items in as the problems with season 6 were on my mind. (Emperor 17:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Why no episode chronology?

Is there a "wiki-reason" for changing "episode chronolgy" for "list of episodes template"?.Yamanbaiia 17:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I suppose there are 2 answers to that:
  • The episode lists were discussed above and got the thumbs up - it not only allows you to navigate to the next and previous articles but others within the season.
  • Why adding the list template kills the chronology is an interesting question - you could have both (although as I say above the season list makes the chronology largely redundant). It is something you could raise on the template talk page although I think it is fine without.
Hope that helps explain it. (Emperor 17:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC))
i just check the "discussion" above, it's just you and Editus reloaded. This should have been discussed a bit more before changing entire seasons, and going through all that trouble. Each season article has already an episode list, i don't see the need of including this list in every article within that list. It doesn't seem necesary plus it gets really annoying when trying to go through a season from the episodes articles, you can't go NEXT, NEXT, NEXT., etc.
I went into some tvshows episodes randomly and some had the list and others had the "episode chronology" thing (Mended Hearts, Wet Foot/Dry Foot, Snow Day (CSI: NY episode), My Tuscaloosa Heart). I think it was way better this way, but i guess until someone else comes to the project and supports me you guys win.Yamanbaiia 17:43, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Well the discussion was started in July and I have only been making further moves on it today so it has been open for discussion all that time and no one else raised any objections (despite my making test changes to seasons 1 and 2 back then). That said nothing is set in stone and nothing has been removed only added. However, I'd obviously like to know one way or the other so I don't go wasting my time on something that is going to be undone soon after. So I'll hold off doing anything else on that until this is resolved.
For the record I'd vote to keep them as they provide the functionality of the chronology and also allow easier navigation through the whole of the season and I know I've found it useful. It also provides a good visual indication of where in the series the episode is (not sure if that was an intention of whoever came up with the idea but it works well). (Emperor 17:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Character's infobox

i just took a look at wiki project LOST and they have some awesome stuff. The Character template is really good and i think if we changed ours to one similar it would help make the character's less in universe. Check out LOST's character's template: Template:Infobox Lost character
Infobox Lost character
Title=
Image=
First=<-- Episodes are not in italics -->
Last=<--optional-->
Flashback1=<--optional--><-- Episodes are not in italics -->
Name=
Place=
Profession=
Actor=
 The one we have now is a bit ridiculous talking about the character's hair, gender, "status" (it was recently mentioned in Talk:Sara Sidle how crazy this seems becuase she doesn't have a status since she doesn't really exist), i know i'm becoming annoying but i just want to improve all this articles :) , i'll change all the characters infobox if you guys agree.Yamanbaiia 22:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Its a good point. As well as being trivia, the idea of a fictional character have any fixed "vital stats" doesn't make sense - such things were removed from the superhero/comic book character infobox a while ago (and I recently used the arguement when I spotted someone sneaking vital statistics onto an article) as they can really change at the whim of the writers. Extra factors can sneak in with TV characters as they can even swap actors. We've shamelessly taken inspiration from the other TV projects that have more numbers and/or a longer history (because they've probably already faced problems we will so we might as well leapfrog them ;) ) and I think this is worth pursuing. If we do change it we can probably task a robot to make the changes (although I suppose there aren't lots of characters and if we all pitch in it'll take no time). (Emperor 00:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC))
Cool. your template is great i suggest only deleting :eyes, hair, status and family. There aren't many characters in the whole franchise, it wouldn't take that long to do it ourselves.
Oh, and we have a problem. Somewhere, something broke and all of CSI's characters articles (even the template) have "align"left">cause of death</tr" in the top of the article, i have no idea how to fix this.Yamanbaiia 17:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for spotting that - I didn't have it on my watchlist. Seems someone added a cause of death field to the category (why?) and it broke everything. I've just reverted it and if someone wants to add it then they an be encouraged to drop in here first.
On the changes - we can probably just remove the template fields and they'll just disappear - if anyone is moved to they can remove the redundant bits from the pages but essentially editing the template is all that is required (although tidying up does avoid confusion ;) ). (Emperor 17:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC))
F*** !! i removed Gender, sex, age, eyes, hair ,status and family from the infobox template, and then from Gil Grissom, but "Satus" and "Gender" still appear! I hate asking for help, but can someone tell me how to fix this?Yamanbaiia 23:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
HAHAHAHA!!! I told you I'd be back! I nuked Status, hair colour, eye colour and gender from the template. The way to get rid of this excess data in character articles is (drumroll....) to edit out the superfluous information! I have, however, accidentally created a "family" data set, which does not disappear if no value is entered, so I will simply scrap it and assume that the article discusses the character's family. Editus Reloaded 16:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grisson for GA

Sara Sidle made it and Grissom is close. It might need the input of the project to just push it over the line. See Talk:Gil Grissom for details of what needs doing. (Emperor 02:41, 30 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Heads up (Goodbye and Good Luck)

  • spoiler* This episode has a lot of GA potential due to the fact that it's Sara Sidle's last episode (see some reviews, news here; many more can easily be found with google). I can't however found any info for a "production" section, anyway, just wanted to let you guys know. -Yamanbaiia (talk) 01:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Hannah/Marlon West Page???

Think they are noteworthy enough now to include pages on them?

Rome Leader 20:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Who? -- Editus Reloaded (talk) 20:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Was that an astute point, or do you really not know? :p

-- Rome Leader (talk) 21:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Editus lives in the UK, where yesterday's episode (Goodbye and Good Luck (CSI episode)) hasn't aired yet. And yes, i think that if Holly Gribbs and Lady Heather have their articles, this two should too. --- Yamanbaiia (talk) 21:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, but they should've gotten "The Unusual Suspect". :p One of my favorites. Yeah, I agree. To each their own due.

-- Rome Leader (talk) 21:43, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Well yeah, but not everyone remembers all the bad guys names... i think they should have one article (the west brothers maybe?) and then redirects from Hannah West and another one from Marlon West. --- Yamanbaiia (talk) 21:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I do, 'cos see... I'm crazy like that. :p More like "West Siblings", but whatever... :p Good idea.

Rome Leader (talk) 00:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

That makes two crazy fans, i don't even live in north America and i've already seen the episode... I like yours better "West Siblings", "the West brothers" sounds like a country band. Do you want to do the honors or shall i? -Yamanbaiia (talk) 01:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't be missin' no CSI... :p

I will do it in a few, but it really doesn't matter. Besides though, there is only one BROTHER. Hannah is a girl. :p

Rome Leader (talk) 12:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

right, forgot about that. 8) -Yamanbaiia (talk) 18:45, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Individual Episode Articles

Hello, I wanted to give your project a heads up that all the individual season one episode summaries for CSI: Crime Scene Investigation have been proposed for deletion per WP:NOT#PLOT since every article is simply a synopsis of the episode along with some trivia (which violates WP:TRIVIA). The relevant discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pilot (CSI). I am waiting for the outcome to see what the consenses is for the rest of the seasons. If anyone would like to expand any of these articles for notability, I would happily withdraw the nomination for that episode. -- Redfarmer (talk) 22:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template: CSI Crime Scene Investigation

I'll post this here, just in case people don't regularly check the template talk page. I recently removed Sofia Curtis from the Characters list, as she is no longer a main cast member. This begs the question, what do we do about Sara Sidle? Jorja Fox was on the show for 8 years, so is that major enough to warrant a permanent place on the template? I think yes, which is not mutually exclusive to removing Sofia Curtis because Lombard was only in the main character list for 2-3 seasons, and so is not a major character with reference to the show's overarching continuity.

Put it another way, if Grissom was killed off next season would we keep him on the template? Editus Reloaded (talk) 20:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, i agree with everything. Maybe someone will propose adding them to a "past main character" section, but i don't think it's necessary yet, they have only been away for 3 months or so.--Yamanbaiia(free hugs!) 21:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Hmm...a "past main characters" line seems like retroactive engineering to me - providing a solution to a problem that should never have existed in the first place. Two people agreeing is a consensus of sorts and no one has posted any oppo here, but is there anything at WP:TV on the subject of characters who are "dead or done"? Editus Reloaded (talk) 16:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Faux titles

I've already removed from the List of CSI:Crime_Scene Investigation episodes invented titles for new CSI episodes twice in a week, someone went as far as inventing a year's worth of titles (see). Someones also edited Bull (CSI) with the full plot of "next week's episode" (see) As far as i know the writer's strike is still on, and no more episodes have been filmed because they have not been written, therefore no plot nor titles exist. We should keep an eye on this, i already saw that year long episode list on a CSI forum.--Yamanbaiia(free hugs!) 21:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Prods on CSI:NY articles

Hey just to give everyone a heads up, the user Travellingcari is proding various CSI:NY articles for deletion based on very sketchy reasons. I contested both prods I found on the talk page. His reasons:

On Minor characters in CSI: NY‎: 1) this is no different to List of CSI: NY characters, with significant overlap 2) several of the characters here, espec0ially Adam Ross and Sid Hammerback have their own pages, and this is duplication. Many of those remaining could be covered easily in CSI:NY. (Sounds like he should be using merge proposal instead of a prod. Gives no reason why to simply delete the page and loose information about characters not given elsewhere.0

On Stella Bonasera: No real means of writing it out of universe style and there is little substance apart from the episode by episode recount of her actions. Anything pre Season 4 is not sourceable due to the changes on the show's official site. Any crucial information on the character of Stella can be mentioned in the main article, namely that she's Mac's second in command and that her career started in Brooklyn North. (He gives no real reason why he thinks the article cannot be sourced out of universe and I pointed out that it is very possible since Gil Grissom is currently a good article. He also says on the discussion page he thinks, if his prod of this page is successful, he intends to prod every individual character page for CSI:NY for the same reason, which is getting out of hand.)

Just thought I'd give you a heads up on this guy so you can keep on eye on them. If they take this to AfD, I intend to fight it all the way as what he is complaining about is cleanup issues, not reasons for deletion. Redfarmer (talk) 16:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

He tagged Donald Flack, Jr. too. Redfarmer (talk) 16:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] $35K O.B.O.

Someone needs to set up an article for the Season 1 episode "$35K O.B.O.". It is the only CSI episode article that just redirects to the episode list in the season's article.--Ifrit (talk) 10:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedied episodes

A number of episodes have been put up for speedy deletion. I got a note for Snow Day (CSI: NY episode) and there appears to be a list here: User talk:WJBscribe#"More" Copyvio's. Nancy seems to reversed most of them (it seems the nominator got the wrong end of the stick for some, mistaking Wikipedia mirrors for the original content, and removing copy violating material in other cases). It looks like there has been a tug of war of some (like Raising Caine) and we need to keep an eye out for problems - I removed some copy vio material from an entry a bit ago.

Obviously, the best answer is to remove the offending material and start again, however, it seems to be a lot are being speedied. I'll look at the ones that have been deleted and reverse those that were due to mistakes and then look into the others. If you spot anything drop a note in here, although if it is copyright violations remove the text first - we can always put it back in if it is a mistake. (Emperor (talk) 20:46, 15 March 2008 (UTC))

Most of the problems seem to stem form edits by User talk:JiaAn94 who went through and created lot of the CSI Miami/NY articles and now has got them all deleted again.
Thanks to everyone who has pitched in to help sort this out so far. (Emperor (talk) 21:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC))

[edit] AfDs:

Just to tell you that two articles of this wikiproject have been nominated for deletion; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Blue Paint Killer and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Miniature Killer LizzieHarrison 15:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

These AFDs were both rejected, but they are in critical need of improvement.Editus Reloaded (talk) 22:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NEW LAYOUT

It's been a year since Editus Reloaded created the project, and I think it's time for a new layout. See Wikipedia:WikiProject CSI franchise/sandbox, the left panel and the right panel. Feel free to change the colour scheme and order of things. By the way, almost EVERYTHING needs an update.--Yamanbaiia(free hugs!) 14:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I like the general idea on the sandbox, but I think that long lists (such as participant lists and the list of season list templates) should have a show/hide option, in order to reduce clutter on the page and create a more compact layout. Thoughts? Editus Reloaded (talk) 22:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, it still needs some cleanup but I had a party to go to. I like your idea of nesting some things, feel free to do it yourself.--Yamanbaiia(free hugs!) 23:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)