Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Buddhism

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[edit] Reference to Kwan Kung Chung Yi Temple stub

Question to the user who edited the above stub. You mention that this temple is on Chung Chau. Please could you explain where on Chung Chau so I can try and visit it? Many thanks User:pavillion32 07:57, 28 October 2007 (BST)

[edit] Sanskrit or Pali as standard?

For Buddhist terms, I've noticed there is an inconsistent usage of Pali and Sanskrit terms. Sometimes the Pali is used for the article title. Other times the Sanskrit term is used. Which language do you think should be used as a standard?

The sanskrit is more widely used (i.e. karma instead of kamma, dharma instead of dhamma), but the original terms were in Pali. Also, because Abhidharma is generally more important to Theravada than Mahayana, less common terms like the Four Foundations of Mindfulness are more likely to be found in Pali (Satipatthana) and not Sanskrit (smṛtyupasthāna). See those google searches to see what I mean. It would be ideal for either the Pali or Sanskrit terms to be standard, except in certain cases of specific Theravada or Mahayana articles. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 16:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I think in general the standard is to use Pali for articles about Theravada topics, and Sanskrit elsewhere. Even in Theravada topics the Sanskrit equivalent should be mentioned when it's significant, since Sanskrit is more familiar and more widely understood. Topics that are significant to both Theravada and non-Theravada schools should probably prefer Sanskrit, mentioning the Pali equivalent in the intro (the reverse of non-Theravada articles). To use a specific example, I would say that the Abhidharma article ought to favor Sanskrit (since we're talking generally about the concept of Abhidharma in both Theravada and Sarvastivadin schools, and could potentially talk about influence on later schools), while Abhidhamma Pitaka should use Pali since we're talking about a body of scriptures and ideas specific to the Theravada school. Also, it's not true that "the original terms were in Pali"- Pali was just one of several MIA languages that the early schools used to record their canons. --Clay Collier (talk) 17:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
In terms of my personal practice, the one thing I would add or perhaps tweak regarding Clay's very thoughtful and wise statement is that — as I vaguely recall can be found in contemporary English-language texts on Buddhism (e.g., Gethin? Harvey?) — in an article such as Middle way or Skandha or Vijnana that deals with a topic of both Theravada and Mahayana interest, when discussing material from the Pali literature, I've used Pali, not Sanskrit (e.g., since using the Sanskrit correlate could be misleading, disingenuous, wrong). In other words (based in part on a gloss of these three articles), this works out so that in such pan-Buddhist articles:
  • the intro uses both Pali and Sanskrit
  • sections dealing with the Pali literature reference Pali
  • sections comparing Pali and Sanskrit literature use both if relevant (e.g., in the Skandha's paltry discussion of differences regarding "emptiness" and "self")
  • all else uses Sanskrit (though, I wonder, about articles/sections specific to topics regarding Japanese, Tibetan, etc., schools)
Thoughts? Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 00:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree with most of this. WP doesn't seem to be consistent. I raised this at Talk:Anatta. Peter jackson (talk) 10:44, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Peter - I find your and Nat's discussion about Sanskrit vs. Pali WP article titles interesting and valuable and look forward to seeing its outcome.
Tangentially, hoping I'm not causing this thread to veer too far off course, I've been piling up words in a sandbox for a possible WP article on mano. While I think all Theravada authors I've seen use the term mano, I see that Sue Hamilton (Identity and Experience) uses manas (which, partly based on my recollection of the PTS PED etymological note, I infer is the preferred Sanskrit form?). So, in your (or anyone's) view should I entitle such a future article mano or manas?
Thanks for sharing your valuable experience. Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 17:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Manas is certainly the standard form used by Western scholars to refer to the Sanskrit word. Usage for Pali may be a bit less consistent, but sticking to the same general principles would give the same result. If you're thinking of an article on this, be very careful about whether or not manas, vinnana & citta are synonymous. Peter jackson (talk) 17:26, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Manas it will be then. Thanks! FWIW, I also very much appreciate and agree with your caveat regarding technical distinctions between manas, vijnana and citta in the Sutta Pitaka (e.g., I tried to get this across based on a Bodhi end-note summary of Hamilton at Vijnana#Overlapping_Pali_terms_for_mind, though reading Hamilton directly now I see there's room for signicantly improving this text [TBD].) (I realize Hamilton's not the only viable secondary source -- she attempts to refute/refine/expand analyses done by Johansson, Reat and others -- but she's the only one I currently have access to.) Thanks again, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 18:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I would advocate using the Sanskrit, even for shared topics, except when discussing overtly Theravadin material. Sanskrit use is far more normative across many of the 18 schools, and in almost all cases more familiar to an English-speaking audience. It is not true that the original terms were in Pali, as Zenwhat suggested. No one knows what Middle Indic Prakrit the Buddha taught in -- in all likelihood he taught in more than one. Certainly, his teachings were disseminated into a number of local vernaculars even before his death. What we know as "Pali" is a literary recension of one of them that itself evolved over hundreds of years. The early Sanskrit texts developed separately.Sylvain1972 (talk) 17:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
A few technical points. 18 schools are just a literary convention. There were substantially more, but only a few were important. Each had its own dialect. All of these were more or less Sanskritized (including Pali) from Middle Indic. Hinüber has argued that they all derived from the same original Prakrit, which he calls Buddhist Middle Indic & suggests may have been not too different from the Buddha's own language. Norman thinks the Buddha used whatever dialect was used by a particular audience, but nobody else seems to have adopted this idea. Peter jackson (talk) 09:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of Buddhism review

History of Buddhism has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Marskell (talk) 12:14, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dorje Shugden

Could some editors from this Wikiproject look at Dorje Shugden (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) and the related ANI thread? There is a lot of POV pushing going on there by people who follow this person's religion. I don't know a thing in the world Buddhism and wouldn't even know where to begin in fixing it. The bottom line is that about six accounts were all created on April 17 and have been seeking to turn this article into a devotional theology piece. They are certainly sockpuppets or meatpuppets and have driven away one good editor. Some guidance from editors who are familiar with this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. --B (talk) 04:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Buddhism and Christianity needs your help

Buddhism and Christianity could IMHO use a fair bit of work if anyone's interested. -- Writtenonsand (talk) 17:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I did alert the Christianity project, thinking they'd be interested in sorting out the gross overplaying of fringe theories about alleged Buddhist influence on Christianity, but nobody seems to have responded yet. Peter jackson (talk) 10:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New article on David Kalupahana

User:Kester ratcliff has started an article on Buddhist writer David J. Kalupahana.
(1) Needs work, if anybody's interested.
(2) Is currently titled Kalupahana. Should presumably be titled David Kalupahana, right?
-- Writtenonsand (talk) 04:19, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Or possibly David J. Kalupahana? Peter jackson (talk) 09:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Names: "the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, [and] the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known. Many cultures have a tradition of not using the full name of a person in everyday reference, but the article should start with the complete version."
Anybody have any objections to going with David J. Kalupahana?? -- Writtenonsand (talk) 14:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)