Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics
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[edit] Government/policy actions here, Rudd government, or where?
[edit] SA articles
I'm not very familiar with the politics of South Australia, but there seems to me to be an element of the soap box in Stashed Cash and Budget and Finance Committee, which have recently been added by User:Dgdotcom.--Grahame (talk) 06:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- FYI - both are only linked to from the Rob Lucas article. Timeshift (talk) 06:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- Googling, and I'm only finding it on SA Liberal MPs' websites, with the occasional reference elsewhere. It's clear that "commonly known as" means in this case "commonly known amongst the SA Liberal frontbench as". Orderinchaos 10:09, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- Someone may wish to check the edits of 203.166.27.228 (talk · contribs) - it resolves as "host228.parliament.sa.gov.au". Orderinchaos 10:53, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- Googling, and I'm only finding it on SA Liberal MPs' websites, with the occasional reference elsewhere. It's clear that "commonly known as" means in this case "commonly known amongst the SA Liberal frontbench as". Orderinchaos 10:09, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Problems at Jon Stanhope
This continual uncited, completely WP:POV rubbish needs dealing with. Random IPs just won't cease. Perhaps a semi-protect is warranted? Timeshift (talk) 09:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Ruth Russell
I've uploaded an image that i'm pretty sure is her but there's no name to make sure this is the case. Anyone dispute that this is not an image of RR? Timeshift (talk) 00:20, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
- Not me. Compared with her photo on her website, it looks legit. - 52 Pickup (deal) 09:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Electorate articles
An editor has decided that articles on electorates in the Northern Territory look like lists and should therefore be classified on the talk pages as "class=list", rather than "class=start" or as stubs (I do not think any are better than "start"). See his response on my talk page. I will continue to correct these, but wonder whether he has gone outside the NT. --Bduke (talk) 01:05, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- He has, but I think that this is mostly a case of misidentification. As many of these articles (at the moment, in their embryonic state) are for the most part lists of members, the editor (who has been doing a great deal of commendable rating lately) has glanced at the article and assumed that they were lists without reading the entire article. I'm hoping that he corrects them himself; otherwise, I'll get to it. Frickeg (talk) 03:24, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- When I first looked at these articles I considered whether they were ever likely to make FA (as subsequently raised by Bduke) and I decided no, because they would be seen as too listy. I thought that it was just possible for them to be make FL, like such fine lists as Degrassi: The Next Generation (season 3), which have very compehensive textual introductions. I'm still of that opinion, but I have no objection to them being altered as suggested by Bduke, and in any event there will be ample opportunity to change their project ratings before FAC/FLC becomes relevant.--Grahame (talk) 07:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- Have a look at, for example, Perth or, for one in a somewhat earlier stage, Murdoch in WA to see what can be done with them. Orderinchaos 07:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- When I first looked at these articles I considered whether they were ever likely to make FA (as subsequently raised by Bduke) and I decided no, because they would be seen as too listy. I thought that it was just possible for them to be make FL, like such fine lists as Degrassi: The Next Generation (season 3), which have very compehensive textual introductions. I'm still of that opinion, but I have no objection to them being altered as suggested by Bduke, and in any event there will be ample opportunity to change their project ratings before FAC/FLC becomes relevant.--Grahame (talk) 07:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Queen
Why isnt the Queen in the Australian PM's infobox? Note her presence in the infoboxes of the UK and Canada. Would someone like to add her = )? Thanks --Camaeron (talk) 17:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- We had this argument before - the conclusion was to leave it out. In the Australian system it would be the Governor-General anyway, not the Queen, as the Queen beyond being the holder of the Crown has no link with the Australian system of government. But the consensus was on Australian articles to leave both out. Orderinchaos 17:59, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] International affiliations
A while ago, the issue of party affiliations was raised, god knows where, and those who contributed agreed to keep them out. Someone on my talk page wants them back. It was agreed that although they were affiliated to the parties, they had little to do with them, and were non-relevant in the scheme of things, so the affiliations (Socialist International/Labor, International Democrat Union/Liberal) were kept in the body text rather than the infobox, in an attempt to keep the infoboxes as simple as possible. I maintain that the affiliation does not warrant being in the infobox, just because there is a spot for it and some parties do it, it doesn't mean we need to, per the regional variation issue raised in earlier infobox discussions over monarchy/gg/elections. Timeshift (talk) 16:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Bit of an odd one but as the international consensus appears to be to have it in (for example Liberal Party of Canada, Social Democratic Party of Germany, Conservative People's Party (Denmark)), and it may assist international readers to follow our political system, I'd rather leave it in unless a wider consensus emerges internationally on politics articles. Orderinchaos 17:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- International affiliations are important and relevant information (that's why the Infobox parameter was created!) and should be in both the body text and the Infobox, as is standard practice (examples: United States Republican Party, Puerto Rican Independence Party, Canadian Conservative Party). International affiliations may help readers understand the source of the party's beliefs, and they should not have to read the entire article to find this information. --Agüeybaná 17:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, such as why the Liberal Party of Australia would be in the IDU (with the CDP of Germany) and not Liberal International (such as the LP of Canada) which actually does say a lot about the LPA's ideological base. Orderinchaos 00:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'd go with what appears to be the international consensus and place them in the infobox. If infobox size is the issue, there are a number of other things that can be fixed there - such as shrinking the font size and reducing the spacing, which should be done anyway.
- The observation regarding the Libs' affiliation with the IDU and not LI is an interesting one. Expanding on the German case, while the CDU is a member of the IDU (and also of Centrist Democrat International), there is another German party that is a member of LI: the FDP. The CDU and FDP are normally preferred coalition partners, and, from my time here in Germany, the ideology of the Libs appears to be a mix of CDU and FDP which would have led me to believe that the Libs would belong to both IDU and LI. Again, interesting. 52 Pickup (deal) 07:19, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, such as why the Liberal Party of Australia would be in the IDU (with the CDP of Germany) and not Liberal International (such as the LP of Canada) which actually does say a lot about the LPA's ideological base. Orderinchaos 00:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- International affiliations are important and relevant information (that's why the Infobox parameter was created!) and should be in both the body text and the Infobox, as is standard practice (examples: United States Republican Party, Puerto Rican Independence Party, Canadian Conservative Party). International affiliations may help readers understand the source of the party's beliefs, and they should not have to read the entire article to find this information. --Agüeybaná 17:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] Election result tables
I know that this has been partially discussed previously, but I'd just like to raise it again with some new information. I'm talking about the tables on the actual election tables (e.g. Australian federal election, 2007). The UK uses Template:Election table, which I think could probably be adjusted to our needs. Otherwise, is it at least agreed that the colours in our tables should use the party colours templates (e.g. Template:Australian politics/party colours/Labor) so that they are constant across Wikipedia? Frickeg (talk) 06:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
- That seems reasonable to me. Orderinchaos 10:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'm going to change the colours, but not the tables, which I think may possibly be more contentious. If there's no discussion in some time, I may get round to changing them too. Frickeg (talk) 02:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Colour coding is really a non-event if the colours themselves dont change. Timeshift (talk) 02:50, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'm going to change the colours, but not the tables, which I think may possibly be more contentious. If there's no discussion in some time, I may get round to changing them too. Frickeg (talk) 02:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
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- I can see at least two things Australia has which UK doesn't, and which don't appear to be reflected in the UK table: (1) two-party-preferred votes (because we use proportional representation), and (2) Coalition groupings. So I believe the table template is not suitable to our needs and shouldn't be used. However party colour templates are a good idea. Peter Ballard (talk) 03:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- Hence why Frickeg said it could be adjusted to our needs. I'd personally like to see a templated form - the current ones are nightmares to work with, esp when one has to do lots of them in one heap. Orderinchaos 03:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- It isn't usually too hard to modify them to Australian needs; I remember when Template:Election box was changed to accommodate two-party preferred. Frickeg (talk) 07:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- Hence why Frickeg said it could be adjusted to our needs. I'd personally like to see a templated form - the current ones are nightmares to work with, esp when one has to do lots of them in one heap. Orderinchaos 03:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
- I can see at least two things Australia has which UK doesn't, and which don't appear to be reflected in the UK table: (1) two-party-preferred votes (because we use proportional representation), and (2) Coalition groupings. So I believe the table template is not suitable to our needs and shouldn't be used. However party colour templates are a good idea. Peter Ballard (talk) 03:09, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
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Why would people agree to something without any examples knocked up? Timeshift (talk) 11:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
- I guess there's not much point in going to the effort of knocking up something without first checking to see the effort would be worth it. Orderinchaos 12:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
- So we're at an impasse? Timeshift (talk) 12:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
- I think the consensus above was to develop something and see how it turned out. Orderinchaos 12:57, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
- So we're at an impasse? Timeshift (talk) 12:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Right. In the end I went more for the Template:Election box style, but I've created Template:Election result AU begin, Template:Election result 2pp and Template:Election result AU as a trial for this. They are used in conjunction with Template:Election box end. For example:
| Australian federal election, 2007: National House of Representatives | ||||||
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| Party | Votes | % | Swing | Seats | Change | |
| Australian Labor Party | 5,388,147 | 43.38 | +5.74 | 83 | +23 | |
| Liberal Party of Australia | 4,546,534 | 36.61 | -4.21 | 55 | -20 | |
| Australian Greens | 967,781 | 7.79 | +0.60 | 0 | 0 | |
| National Party of Australia | 682,424 | 5.49 | -0.40 | 10 | -2 | |
| Family First Party | 246,792 | 1.99 | -0.02 | 0 | 0 | |
| Australian Democrats | 89,810 | 0.72 | -0.51 | 0 | 0 | |
| Independents | 276,369 | 2.23 | -0.27 | 2 | -1 | |
| Other | 222,004 | 1.79 | +0.25 | 0 | 0 | |
| Total | 12,419,863 | 150 | ||||
| Two Party Preferred Result | ||||||
| Australian Labor Party | WIN | 52.70 | +5.44 | 83 | +23 | |
| Liberal/National Coalition | 47.30 | -5.44 | 65 | -22 | ||
So - thoughts? Suggestions? Condemnations? Frickeg (talk) 07:33, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- Looks great to me, although there may be some devil in the detail. Definitely a positive model to work from. Orderinchaos 08:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- Additionally, I think that somewhere there should be a complete results table (as in, including every party that contested the House of Reps). Where should this go? The new format is more compact and it shouldn't be too huge, but maybe still too big for the top of the article? Frickeg (talk) 06:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] DLP
Per this, the user changed the lead to favour South Korea, now says "Korea is one of only two with name "Labor" (not Labour). Other option is to make this page WP:D if u want." Comments at DLP talk page appreciated. Timeshift (talk) 11:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
- Looked into it - it's a minor party. Parties with the DLP name in Barbados and Brazil are much more significant. This user seems to have a particular issue with the spelling of the party - I've checked the sources and about an equal number spell it with International and US English, with no abiding reason (given it's Korea) to prefer the latter. Orderinchaos 12:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Division of Bonython
Someone's moved this to Division of Bonython (1955 - 2004). Could someone move it back please? Frickeg (talk) 08:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Minister infoboxes
Having a look at this list of cabinet ministers, it is clear that a uniform standard is needed. What should be in the infobox, what should not be in the infobox. For example, do we need the Prime Minister listed in their portfolio? (but that's just me, i'm not fussed) Nationality? Spouse? Children? Alma mater? Occupation? The list goes on. Timeshift (talk) 12:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- I would say: Prime Minister - yes (to relate them to the government they were minister in); nationality - no (they're all going to be Australian, pretty much); spouse - yes; children - perhaps (may bloat infobox too much); alma mater - yes; occupation - yes. Frickeg (talk) 22:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Liberal Party (1922)
What name should an article about the Liberal Party of the 1922 election be under? According to Psephos, this party ran in opposition to Billy Hughes and included elected members John Latham, Malcolm Cameron, John Duncan-Hughes, and Richard Foster. It's listed on the 1922 election page, but I can find very little information on it. What's to be done? Frickeg (talk) 04:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- Is the party noteable? There are many pre-WW2 parties on the election pages without a wikilink. Timeshift (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, but this one actually held seats. I think the only other parties that elected members to the House of Reps but have no WP pages are the Revenue Tariff Party and the Western Australian Party. It also illustrates the opposition to Hughes that caused him to resign the prime ministership in 1922. It was, for example, more successful than the Greens or the Democrats have yet been. The main reason I'm asking this is that when someone gets to making election results boxes for the seats where they ran (e.g. Kooyong 1922), there'll need to be a colour and a link. Frickeg (talk) 06:32, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I think it definitely deserves an article - the fact that our coverage of early political parties completely sucks is a bug, not a feature. Liberal Party (1922) sounds like it might be the best name for the article. It sounds like you've already got some basic content there, but I'm sure a bit more could be found if we raid the libraries and archives and such. Rebecca (talk) 02:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
- Another member: William Watt. Together with the others, he makes up the five mentioned in the 1922 article. Frickeg (talk) 00:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- Some sources (e.g. Australian Dictionary of Biography, The First Century: Australia's Federal Elections since Federation (Aiton & Lane), and others) seem to refer to this party as the "Liberal Union" or the "Liberal Union Party". Does anyone have anything definitive on this before I create the article? Frickeg (talk) 05:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Divisions of SA, Tas
Should there be articles for the pre-1903 state of South Australia and Tasmania (where they voted as multi-member electorates), as in Division of South Australia and Division of Tasmania? It seems logical in order to place members of those divisions. Frickeg (talk) 02:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
- I raised this with Adam Carr while we were first writing the federal electorates some time back and I think the consensus was that, as we had a lot of other things on our plate, we could safely put it off for a while. It may now be time to write them. --Roisterer (talk) 23:28, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Patrick Farmer
This page is currently at the above name, despite the overwhelming preference for "Pat Farmer" from almost all sources, e.g. [1], [2], [3], [4], and others. A Google search for "Pat Farmer" returns about 22,700 results, while a search for "Patrick Farmer" yields only 8,940, of which Wikipedia is the top. Seems logical that "Pat Farmer" should be the article name. Frickeg (talk) 00:05, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] AEC website
results.aec.gov.au/13745/website has been taken down. I'm replacing all the links using AWB - the new site is http://results.aec.gov.au/13745/website (and the tails are exactly the same - so results.aec.gov.au/13745/website/blah becomes results.aec.gov.au/13745/website/blah) Orderinchaos 06:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Lang Labor
Should there be a Category:Lang Labor politicians (included within Category:Australian politicians by party)? I would say yes: they acted as a party for quite some time. I thought I'd mention it here first in case anyone has any qualms. Frickeg (talk) 04:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
