Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Argentine football

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[edit] Club articles

Firstly great work, and a big well done to King of the North East, for getting the project up and running.

Just thought it best to mention here that I have made a start on gradully working through cleaning up each club article. So far I have only got through Argentinos Juniors and Arsenal; and I am part way through Banfield. Using List of football clubs in Argentina as my point of reference. Just doing very basic stuff like correcting wiki links from re-directs, spelling and grammar and so on. I will make mistakes (I already have done!) so if you see any please correct them. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 21:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Continuing with your work I started translating from es:WP missing Banfield players and will eventually do the rest of the teams to at least have a stub if not better, for every possible player we can find info on. If you create a new article for any of them, don't forget to add them to the top of the list in Wikipedia:Argentina-related regional notice board so other editors will see and maybe come on board. -- Alexf(t/c) 22:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logo

This is a very nice logo , maybe someone could make something similar with the map of Argentina.King of the North East 23:31, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

There is also this that is in some userboxes - Image:Flag-map of Argentina.svg Don't know if it could be used anywhere too? ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 20:18, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Task force or WikiProject

Hi, it's great to see another subcat of WP:Football. Can I suggest though that we make it into a taskforce, as per England, Italy, etc. See discussions on WP football talk,Wikiproject Council proposals and more WP Football talk. Paulbrock 23:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

'Scuse the ignorance. What's the difference between WikiProject and Task Force in WP context? -- Alexf(t/c) 16:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

In the (simplified!) words of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Guide/Task_forces:

::"A task force is a non-independent subgroup of a larger WikiProject that covers some defined part of the WikiProject's scope. For example, the United States task force of the Military history WikiProject deals with US military history."

"The major distinction between a task force and a fully independent child WikiProject is that the task force minimizes the bureaucratic overhead of its activities by relying on the parent project to provide as much of the procedural and technical infrastructure as possible. Thus, a task force will use the core project's peer review and assessment processes rather than creating its own. This allows the task force to focus primarily on direct article-writing activity, without the need to devote extensive resources to maintaining its own internal structure."

Argentina seems to be a bit of a hybrid at the moment, for example using the WP:Football assessment template, but having its own page, rather than a subpage of WP:Football, and using its own navigation template rather than the WP:Football one. The problem is that historically the 'child' projects of WP:Football became poorly maintained, as there's more overhead, so a few of us started to convert them to Task Forces, maintaining consistency thru WP:Football. Additionally, with this NOT being a task force, you run the risk of more and more proposals such as the one above, suggesting to assess Argentinian Football articles differently to other WP:Football articles - in short, I think it's messy! Paulbrock 00:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I think we should make it clear. Are you guys a separate WikiProject or a taskforce? I would suggest you all to fully turn into a taskforce in any case. --Angelo 17:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

1. The difference still seems to be a largely semantic one. I set it up as a Wikiproject, the only voices suggesting that it becomes a Taskforce are ones that have contributed little or nothing to the project.
2. Everyone here has accepted the WP:Football assessment criteria, unlike the England taskforce which is all over the place mis-classifying internationals like Deon Burton (44 caps) as low-importance and examples of extreme recentism where Dixie Dean and Bobby Moore are mid importance while Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard are both high and Walter Winterbottom isnt even classified.
3. The USA taskforce is more comprehensive in its coverage, but its assessments are even further off the mark with noted internationals like Jorge Campos (130 caps Mexico) Eddie Lewis (soccer) (72 caps USA) and Mauricio Solís (110 caps Costa Rica) being ranked as low-importance.
4. The vast majority of the workload around here involves updating current squads, player articles and navboxes during transfer windows and making sure the correct teams are in the correct divisions. This will not be reduced by becoming a taskforce. King of the North East (T/C) 20:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Assessments are made following the guidelines from the parent WikiProject, so they made it wrong. My doubts are because of the welcome opening on the WP's main page ("Welcome to the Argentine football taskforce of Wikipedia:WikiProject Football.") with respect to the article name (Wikipedia:WikiProject Argentine football). If you're already following the WPF suggestions and guidelines, a change into a taskforce would actually be harmless. In any case, fix the homepage at least. --Angelo 20:42, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

I believe that while assessing the importance of articles in WP:ArF, we should adopt slightly different criteria than WP:Football for evaluating articles. There are several reasons for this, the main one being that there are virtually no predominantly lower league players to put in the Low importance category. I think we should use it for undecorated and fringe players in the Primera for now to allow us to differentiate between successful title winning players needing work and the less successful ones of lesser notablility. These are the outline evaluation criteria I think we should use.

Players & Managers

Decorated meaning League, Full international club tournament and senior national team tournament winner

• Low = Undecorated players & managers (example Sergio Romero)
• Mid = Decorated players & managers, international footballers, league topscorers, top 10 appearances/goalscorer for primera division club, Primera club captains, that kind of thing. (example Rodrigo Palacio)
• High = High achiever: World Cup Final players & Managers (match not tournament), multiple top flight top scorers and top flight title holders, "high importance" club record holders, league record holders. (example Daniel Passarella)

Clubs

• Low = mainly non-professional club history (example Cruz del Sur)
• Mid = mainly professional clubs or seasons spent in top two leagues (example Textil Mandiyú)
• High = International club champions, Copa Libertadores, CONMEBOL, Sudamericana (example Independiente)

Any comments?King of the North East 11:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi, as you are using the {{Football}} template, any assessments should match the criteria set out by WP:Football. Assessments will show up both here and in WP:Football so they should be consistent. The alternative is to use your own assessment template but I'd suggest you stick with the WPF one. Also, it allows expansion when you do get round to adding non-Primera players.Paulbrock 12:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Although your ideas on this subject are very good, I tend to agree here with Paulbrock that we should maintain consistency with WP:Football as much as possible. -- Alexf(t/c) 12:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, as the WP:Football template is being used and the assessements appear on there too then there needs to be consistency between the two. And I agree we should use the WP:Football template and stick to their criteria. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 15:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata current squad

I am working on Gimnasia LP current roster before I can attempt to make a decent current squad template (which I could not find). I ported the current squad from es:WP that differed greatly with en:WP. It is now a mix of both and I am trying to do two things:

• ascertain who is in and who is out (and where they have moved to)
• create pages for missing players as much as possible with the information at hand, at least entry-level stubs if not better.

Any help would be appreciated. -- Alexf(t/c) 13:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Almost finished with creating pages for GELP players from information I could obtain from es:WP and online sources. GELP squad template created as a base and will be maintained as roster changes. -- Alexf(t/c) 15:47, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request

Dear all,

I would like to have articles for every Argentine footballer who took part of a World Cup squad.

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1930 FIFA World Cup Runners-up GK Bossio • GK Botasso • FW Cherro • DF Chividini • FW Demaría • DF Della Torre • DF J. Evaristo • FW M. Evaristo • FW Ferreira • MF Monti • DF Muttis • DF Orlandini • DF Paternoster • FW Perinetti • FW Peucelle • DF Piaggio • FW Scopelli • FW Spadaro • FW Stábile • MF Suárez • FW Varallo • DF Zumelzú • Coach: Olazar & Tramutola

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1934 FIFA World Cup MF Albarracín • DF Astudillo • DF Belis • DF Chimento • FW de Vincenzi • GK Freschi • FW Galateo • GK Grippa • FW Irañeta • FW Izzeta • MF López • MF Lorenzo • MF Nehin • DF Pedevilla • FW Pérez • FW Rúa • MF Urbieta Sosa • FW Wilde • Coach: Pascucci

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1958 FIFA World Cup 1 Carrizo • 2 Dellacha • 3 Vairo • 4 Lombardo • 5 Rossi • 6 Varacka • 7 Corbatta • 8 Prado • 9 Menéndez • 10 Rojas • 11 Labruna • 12 Musimessi • 13 Pérez • 14 Edwards • 15 Acevedo • 16 Mouriño • 17 Ramos Delgado • 18 Boggio • 19 Avio • 20 Infante • 21 Sanfilippo • 22 Cruz • Coach: Stábile

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1962 FIFA World Cup 1 Roma • 2 Ramos Delgado • 3 Marzolini • 4 Sainz • 5 Sacchi • 6 Páez • 7 Facundo • 8 Pando • 9 Pagani • 10 Sanfilippo • 11 Belén • 12 Domínguez • 13 Rossi • 14 Mariotti • 15 Navarro • 16 Rattín • 17 Albrecht • 18 Cap • 19 Sosa • 20 Oleniak • 21 Abeledo • 22 González • Coach: Lorenzo

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1966 FIFA World Cup 1 Roma • 2 Irusta • 3 Gatti • 4 Perfumo • 5 Varacka • 6 Calics • 7 Marzolini • 8 Ferreiro • 9 Simeone • 10 Rattín • 11 Pastoriza • 12 Albrecht • 13 López • 14 Chaldú • 15 Solari • 16 González • 17 Sarnari • 18 Rojas • 19 Artime • 20 Onega • 21 Más • 22 Tarabini • Coach: Lorenzo

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1974 FIFA World Cup 1 Carnevali • 2 Ayala • 3 Babington • 4 Balbuena • 5 Bargas • 6 Brindisi • 7 Carrascosa • 8 Chazarreta • 9 Glaria • 10 Heredia • 11 Houseman • 12 Fillol • 13 Kempes • 14 Perfumo • 15 Poy • 16 Sá • 17 Squeo • 18 Telch • 19 Togneri • 20 Wolff • 21 Santoro • 22 Yazalde • Coach: Cap

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1978 FIFA World Cup Winners (1st Title) 1 Alonso • 2 Ardiles • 3 Baley • 4 Bertoni • 5 Fillol • 6 Gallego • 7 L. Galván • 8 R. Galván • 9 Houseman • 10 Kempes • 11 Killer • 12 Larrosa • 13 Lavolpe • 14 Luque • 15 Olguín • 16 Ortiz • 17 Oviedo • 18 Pagnanini • 19 Passarella • 20 Tarantini • 21 Valencia • 22 Villa • Coach: Menotti

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1982 FIFA World Cup 1 Ardiles • 2 Baley • 3 Barbas • 4 Bertoni • 5 Calderón • 6 Díaz • 7 Fillol • 8 Galván • 9 Gallego • 10 Maradona • 11 Kempes • 12 Hernández • 13 Olarticoechea • 14 Olguín • 15 Passarella • 16 Pumpido • 17 Santamaría • 18 Tarantini • 19 Trossero • 20 Valdano • 21 Valencia • 22 Van Tuyne • Coach: Menotti

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1986 FIFA World Cup Winners (2nd Title) 1 Almirón • 2 Batista • 3 Bochini • 4 Borghi • 5 Brown • 6 Passarella • 7 Burruchaga • 8 Clausen • 9 Cuciuffo • 10 Maradona • 11 Valdano • 12 Enrique • 13 Garré • 14 Giusti • 15 Islas • 16 Olarticoechea • 17 Pasculli • 18 Pumpido • 19 Ruggeri • 20 Tapia • 21 Trobbiani • 22 Zelada • Coach: Bilardo

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1990 FIFA World Cup Runners-up 1 Pumpido (Comizzo) • 2 Batista • 3 Balbo • 4 Basualdo • 5 Bauza • 6 Calderón • 7 Burruchaga • 8 Caniggia • 9 Dezotti • 10 Maradona • 11 Fabbri • 12 Goycochea • 13 Lorenzo • 14 Giusti • 15 Monzón • 16 Olarticoechea • 17 Sensini • 18 Serrizuela • 19 Ruggeri • 20 Simón • 21 Troglio • 22 Cancelarich • Coach: Bilardo

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1994 FIFA World Cup 1 Goycochea • 2 Vázquez • 3 Chamot • 4 Sensini • 5 Redondo • 6 Ruggeri • 7 Caniggia • 8 Basualdo • 9 Batistuta • 10 Maradona • 11 Medina Bello • 12 Islas • 13 Cáceres • 14 Simeone • 15 Borelli • 16 Díaz • 17 Ortega • 18 Pérez • 19 Balbo • 20 Rodríguez • 21 Mancuso • 22 Scoponi • Coach: Basile

v • d • e Argentina squad - 1998 FIFA World Cup 1 Roa • 2 Ayala • 3 Chamot • 4 Pineda • 5 Almeyda • 6 Sensini • 7 C. López • 8 Simeone • 9 Batistuta • 10 Ortega • 11 Verón • 12 Burgos • 13 Paz • 14 Vivas • 15 Astrada • 16 Berti • 17 Cavallero • 18 Balbo • 19 Crespo • 20 Gallardo • 21 Delgado • 22 Zanetti • Coach: Passarella

v • d • e Argentina squad - 2002 FIFA World Cup 1 Burgos • 2 Ayala • 3 Sorín • 4 Pochettino • 5 Almeyda • 6 Samuel • 7 C. López • 8 Zanetti • 9 Batistuta • 10 Ortega • 11 Verón • 12 Cavallero • 13 Placente • 14 Simeone • 15 Husaín • 16 Aimar • 17 G. López • 18 González • 19 Crespo • 20 Gallardo • 21 Caniggia • 22 Chamot • 23 Bonano • Coach: Bielsa

v • d • e Argentina squad - 2006 FIFA World Cup 1 Abbondanzieri • 2 Ayala • 3 Sorín • 4 Coloccini • 5 Cambiasso • 6 Heinze • 7 Saviola • 8 Mascherano • 9 Crespo • 10 Riquelme • 11 Tévez • 12 Franco • 13 Scaloni • 14 Palacio • 15 Milito • 16 Aimar • 17 Cufré • 18 Rodríguez • 19 Messi • 20 Cruz • 21 Burdisso • 22 González • 23 Ustari • Coach: Pekerman

Red links no more!

Best, Mxcatania 13:26, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Usage of Argentine alternative flag

Argentina has two flags: the plain triband and the one with the Sun of May. The first one is said to be used to represent Argentina from 1900-1985 and the current flag ( Argentina) is being used from 1986 on. Isn't it? Mxcatania 13:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

does it matter for football purposes? -- Alexf(t/c) 12:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Since other national football teams take into account this issue, I think we should apply the right usage of flags for La Selección-related articles. Mxcatania 17:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weekly article for improvement

Hi, I was wondering whether anyone would support the creation of a weekly Argentine football article for improvement drive. I'm not sure how we should select them, maybe with a vote like Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Article improvement drive or maybe by just starting with the big 3 clubs Boca Juniors, River Plate and Independiente and then moving on from there. Any comments? King of the North East 13:16, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Not sure it's such a workable idea. Some people are good at online research and have the drive to improve selected articles. Some people prefer to maintain the teams they know most. I'd say work on whatever team(s) you like and try to keep them up to date. Some of us will work on the smaller/most unheralded teams to try to give them some attention too. -- Alexf(t/c) 12:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable players

What constitutes a notable player? Or more to the point, there are some obvious choices in some teams, but there are a lot of teams with longish lists of players that are mostly unknown, and some don't even have a WP article. Check Arsenal de Sarandí as an example, where I think the list (as it stands on 7 August 2007) should be cut in half. -- Alexf(t/c) 11:59, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

From Wikipedia:Notability (people):

Athletes - Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming or tennis.

This is normally interpreted as at least one first team appearance in a professional league. Assuming the Primera is fully professional, ALL regular players for Arsenal de Sarandí would be notable; see also discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Notability#Players. Paulbrock 00:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I had read that before and does not apply to my question. I guess they mean "famous" when they write their notable past players. Obviously you couldn't/shouldn't name every past player there. I think one commenter on the link you provided has a point, e.g. a player with a number of caps, international games, etc. In the Arsenal Sarandí example, IMO there are too many non-notables. -- Alexf(t/c) 01:05, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Club logo recent size increase

A user has recently been increasing the size of club logos. I fear this may be a problem as it may violate copyrights. I understand fair use is followed when logos are low resolution. Increasing the size to 150px as it was done, may be a violation. There's a good discussion on this and related subjects right now at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Club_season_Manual_of_Style. Opinions? Alexf^{(Talk/Contribs)} 10:31, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Complete games record

Does anybody know of a website that has a complete record of all Argentina's international games, with the goalscorers. (looking for 1956-1957 specifically) RSSSF.com has a list of games but not the goalscorers and I'm trying to find out which games Omar Sivori scored in. - Soprani 12:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I think I've found it. Check this out: http://www.informeargentina.com.ar/portada.htm. Regards. Ipsumesse (talk) 02:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of Argentina international players

I think this page should be created, it would be an extremely useful research tool. It would be similar in style to the List of England international footballers (alphabetical). I will request it on the project page, I might start it myself, but I'm not sure where I can find most of relevant the statistics, King of the North East (T/C) 13:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming conventions of player articles

I have posted a question on WP:WPF on the naming conventions of, among others, Argentinian footballers. Please feel free to add comments there. Sebisthlm 13:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transfers

I have just removed the transfers sections from the Primera teams, as the Apertura is coming to an end. Maybe we could create a Primera Division Argentina transfers page for the January transfer window so as to avoid cluttering up the team articles and keeping all the transfer info in one place. Any comments? King of the North East (T/C) 14:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Seems like a good thing to do. Sebisthlm 01:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I will get it set up before the next transfer window then. King of the NorthEast 13:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

List of Argentine football transfers January 2008, if anyone notices Argentine players getting moved, please check for releable sources. If you find a reliable source, list the transferhere, if you can't find a source then revert the changes. Happy hunting, King of the NorthEast 17:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Racing Club de Avellaneda → Racing Club

I have made a request on Wikipedia:Requested moves to change the name of the Argentine club's article to simply "Racing Club" (which is a disambiguation) as per WP:COMMON, I'm not sure if this move would be at all controverisal and now I have done a section on Talk:Racing Club de Avellaneda incase anybody likes to add something. - Sivorian (talk) 14:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lower league managers & chairmen

I removed the managers and chairmen from Argentino A & B clubs since nobody has systematically updated the articles. I am considering doing the same for Primera B,C & D. Leaving only the national leagues with manager & chairman filled. English peasant 09:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Where to locate clubs?

Hello everybody, I guess I'm the newest rookie here. I've been suggested to place a question here about club addresses. I've frequently observed many are located where their stadium is, rather than where they're legally recognized as institutions of some kind. I guess at least it should be noted the difference in those cases. I've put originally this question in the discussion page of Chacarita Juniors. Go check it out and let me know what you think. Thanks. Ipsumesse (talk) 02:07, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sportivo Barracas

Hi everybody. I've recently put some flesh and bones on the skeleton article of Sportivo Barracas. It may need some wikification, so I'd appreciate if anyone could check it out (grammar and spelling, for instance) and let me know my mistakes. Also, you'll notice I translated vuelta olímpica as Olympic round. I really don't know if the expression is used in English, since my mother language is Spanish, but if it exists, it may be valuable to correct that.

Also, I'd like to add the former club's crest (I have it in my computer), but I'm a bit disoriented with image policies and copyrights. I've read somewhere that it's ok to add images if they're not to big (fair use). Is that right? Sorry if I'm asking things already known by everyone, but these are my first steps. I'm eager to run! Thanks in advance. Ipsumesse (talk) 09:17, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New names for two articles

Hi there, I think there are two articles that maybe should be moved. Club Bamin Real Potosí may better be Club Real Potosí since its recent name change, as well as the club's Stadium Mario Mercado Vaca Guzmán, which also changed its name recently (see here ^[1]). Same happens with Audax Italiano, which had a minor name change this year. So what do you think? Ipsumesse (talk) 16:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

• If you think the move is uncontroversial, just move it using the Move tab near the top of the page. If you think a debate is needed see WP:RM English peasant 22:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

[edit] Player

Marcos Aurelio Di Paulo played for Chacarita Juniors, Velez Sarsfield and Barcelona in Spain. Does anyone have any more information than that? EP 22:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Club de Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata

Hi everyone!! I nominated the article of Club de Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata to be a Good Article. And I also rated the article of History of Club de Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata as Start-Class on the quality scale and Mid-importance on the importance scale. If you want, you all are invited to make the article better. Bye --Tincho gelp (talk) 18:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Transfer window

The transfer window is open once again. If you become aware of any player transfers involving Argentine Primera teams or see anyone wrecking articles by doing unsourced and poorly coded transfers, please check out whether the transfer is real, or simply wishful thinking. If its real, stick it on the List of Argentine football transfers June-August 2008. I would be immensely grateful for any help keeping all the player movements uptodate. Regards EP 00:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)