Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Adventure games

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To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Adventure games: edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:
  • Cleanup: Incorporate text from "Trivia"-sections to the main body of the article or delete the information and refrain from adding any more Trivia-items.
  • Expand: Add infoboxes to all articles. Expand Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers and rewrite Sierra Entertainment.
  • Update: Add classes and importance to all articles (e.g. stub, low class) so we can prioritise which articles to update.
  • Other: Model article: define what information/sections should be on all articles.

Contents

[edit] Replacing WikiProject Video Games?

As lots of the talk pages for ag's currently fall under the banner of the VG project, are we replacing this, or do the games fall under both projects? Burns flipper 11:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It would fall under both projects. Greeves (talk • contribs) 19:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Agreed with the above; there's no harm in having an article fall under two separate WPs and it might even benefit the article itself, because we'd have both a general view from WP:CVG members and a more genre-specific side with more experience with these games here. Cromag talk to me 21:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, there is no limit to WPP banners. Talk:Final Fantasy (video game) has four, and I'm sure many articles have more. Kariteh 22:18, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I removed the template from Aces of the Pacific and Cannonball Blitz, as they're not adventure games. Cromag talk to me 22:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I can just about predict that we are going to have huge fights over whether or not games like Dreamfall should be tagged! :)--Wormsie 08:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes and additions

I'm creating this topic to help us keep track of what the members of the project are working on or what changes they've introduced recently. As I mentioned above, I just removed the project template from two articles and plan to start adding it to most, if not all, articles in Category:Adventure games and/or Category:Point-and-click adventure games. I also created two shortcuts for our project, so as to facilitate getting here: WP:ADVENTURE and WP:ADVGAMES. Cromag talk to me 23:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

And I've temporarily postponed adding the template pending a decision on whether the project should be turned into a WP:CVG task force (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#WikiProject Adventure games). Cromag talk to me 23:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
And starting Tuesday, I'll be adding the templates, since no one's really answering on WP:VG's talk page. So it looks like this'll remain a WP, not a task force. Cromag talk to me 18:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
All hopes are not lost. We do have lot of work to do in adventure portals. --SkyWalker 12:39, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to work on the Sierra Entertainment article, I've got some stuff going on at the moment but that should clear by the end of the weekend and I'll be able to get back into this.
Personally, I don't see any reason why the WP shouldn't remain just that, for the reasons specified on the WP:VG talk page. We're not competing with the latter. We'll see if consensus can be reached, but for now, I'm adding the templates. Cromag talk to me 14:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
It's just that they don't really want to see another aborted project like Wikipedia:WikiProject Dragon Quest. The important thing is to improve the articles anyway, it doesn't matter if this project is a "project" or a "task force". Kariteh 14:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Very true, arguing about it is talking semantics. Let's focus on the changes themselves. I don't know about Dragon Quest, but there's lots to do here. Cromag talk to me 14:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I've started tagging the games, as I updated the to-do list with. I figure that if there was a status change to the project it would need only be reflected in the template, which won't be effected by me tagging games. If that makes sense. :)

Klytos 05:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

Back on topic though, how would one go about expanding the template, as suggested by Burns flipper? My skills in these matters are laughable and I'd do more harm than good if I attempted it. Cromag talk to me 14:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not the most important but I added an icon to the template. If someone has or make a better pic feel free to replace it. Kariteh 18:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Looks good to me; simple, yet effective! Cromag talk to me 21:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Looks good. I also have laughable skills with a lot of Wiki formatting, which is why the template was so simple! Klytos 01:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I've amended the template so all tagged articles are now included automatically on Category:WikiProject Adventure games articles. Burns flipper 11:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

On a different template topic, if people could give opinions on the templates at the bottom of this article Space Quest V: The Next Mutation. I am of the opinion that it's overkill to have both templates there succession box and SpaceQuest. I would suggest removing the succession box template altogether.Klytos 01:22, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd agree with that. The succession box is not needed. ●BillPP (talk|contribs) 01:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Co-sign. Cromag talk to me 08:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah the succession box is superfluous there. Plus these kinds of boxes are often used for successions of kings or presidents... it looks curious to have one for a video game series. Kariteh 09:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I tried to edit the Template:Advenproj, hopefully I didn't break much. I tried to modify the Template:Cvgproj to suit this project's needs. If it breaks pages and is horrible, revert it and tell me to never touch it again. :)--Wormsie 19:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

What's the Wikipedia policy on (sub)categories? Some game articles are in both Category:Adventure games and Category:Point-and-click adventure games, but the latter is a sub-category of the former. I don't think it needs to be in both, just the lowest level defined? Burns flipper 12:28, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Just the lowest level, except for some particular cases which probably don't apply here (see Wikipedia:Categorization#Some general guidelines). Kariteh 13:24, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Under the Categories King's Quest, Space Quest, and Leisure Suit Larry all have their own major category - but I don't see one for Police Quest, also by Sierra in that time period. I couldn't figure out how to add it, either - pardon me, I haven't learned everything, yet. :) Duckingham 20:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Good point; however, as of now, there would only be around two or three articles that would be eligible for inclusion in this category. Klytos has added links to articles on the individual installments and I plan to start writing them soon, unless he's doing the same. Creating a category's very easy; just type in "Category:(Example)" in your browser, write a sentence describing what the category encompasses and add articles to it by visiting each one and adding a link to your newly-created category to the category listing at the bottom of said page. Good luck. Cromag talk to me 14:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
There's a Police Quest Category already, it was linked to the Police Quest IV: Open Season topic and a couple of others. It's a sub-category of Sierra Games, same as KQ, LSL and SQ etc. I've added the links into the other PQ articles as well the SWAT games. Oh yeah, I'm definetly working on the PQ articles. Forgot how awesome those games were.Klytos 06:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Task list & trivia sections

Hey, what practice should be used with the task list? Probably we all re allowed to edit, but if I happen to think that, say, an important task would be to incorporate trivia sections to the main body of all adventure game articles, can I just go ahead and add it or will my edits be subjected to a huge war?--Wormsie 08:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, Trivia sections are generally discouraged on Wikipedia. It would be best to incorporate the information you plan to add to the main body. Cromag talk to me 12:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, isn't that exactly what I said? "an important task would be to incorporate trivia sections to the main body of all adventure game articles" :) Meaning that everything under "trivia" would be moved elsewhere or removed altogether.--Wormsie 13:36, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Mea culpa ;). Looks like I was a bit dazed and confused there. Yes, that would be a great idea, there's no need for overly large trivia sections. Unfortunately, there are many short articles with relatively expansive trivia sections whose contents can't be incorporated into the article at all at this point. Cromag talk to me 15:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sierra

I'm working on the Sierra game list, and adding in the Category:Adventure games and Category:Sierra games tags, as well as our adventproj tag to relevant talk pages.Klytos 15:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Changed the name of the WikiProject as per Cromag's suggestion. Klytos 00:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

You might want to post something to introduce the project at the main WikiProject Video Games. Lots of people don't know you exist. Kariteh 06:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agatha Christie series

I've been quite effectively able to produce FA-standard game articles, writing Voyage: Inspired by Jules Verne, And Then There Were None, and Murder on the Orient Express by myself from scratch. However, I am absolutely in the dark as to what to put into and how to structure the Agatha Christie series article. What would I put for a series article? My dream has been to raise the Agatha Christie series articles to featured topic status after aquiring FA status for each, so thank you for the positive, and absolutely not blind, support in my FAs, not only for the Agatha games, but also for Voyage ;) I actually didn't know this wonderful project existed and was about to propose it when I stumbled on it through the Myst article! Anyway, any pointers on how to approach a series article would be greatly appreciated, as would any positive comments and/or criticisms on my three FACs.--Paaerduag 13:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

You could try taking inspiration from other series articles. Devil May Cry (series) is a Good Article; there's also Chrono (series) (GA) and Mana (series) (GA candidate) (I worked on those last two). There doesn't seem to be any Featured Article about a game series yet. In any case, I think the Design and Common elements sections are interesting since they outline the common features and history of the series (don't mention a common element if you don't have a source though, even if a similarity sounds obvious!). The key to write a series article may be to take relevant information from the individual game articles, but to leave out the bits that pertains only to one game and not the whole series. Something like that. Sorry I don't have such a precise answer. Kariteh 13:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the pointers. I will take inspiration from those other series articles. I actually looked at both of them before, and I guess it's a process of finding ways to make that roadmap fit in with the Agatha Christie series.--Paaerduag 04:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Congrats on the Feature Article status of the two articles so far. Really good job.Klytos 09:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Great job! I plan to do some serious work on The Legend of Kyrandia this summer, so I might be using your articles for inspiration. Anyway, I'm in awe; excellent work. Cromag talk to me 14:12, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliments! It's always nice to be appreciated ;)--Paaerduag 04:07, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Congrats on getting the third article to FA Status. Really amazing job! Klytos 04:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scope of project

Hi guys, when I first slapped eyes on this project I was quite satisfied that the remit was point and click adventure games, end of. However, I've noticed that the Clock Tower and Alone in the Dark series are also under the adventure banner, which pours cold water over my previous thoughts.

So, this project is definitely for point and click games and anything resembling them, but what about text adventure games? Are all these automatically articles that this project wants a hand in? What about survival horror games? In general or specific titles? Would Haunting Ground and Rule of Rose cast the net too wide for project members? Is Parasite Eve 2 an action RPG hybrid/survival horror game and not to be included?

I'm asking the question because I've been on the look-out for games which would obviously fall under the project's remit but I don't want to start adding things which aren't wanted and causing problems. QuagmireDog 17:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts when forming this WP was aimed at the LucasArts & Sierra 80's / 90's games and their obvious clones like the Les Manly games and Rex Nebular game. To answer your questions specifically, Point & Click for sure, text adventures yep (Infocom etc), Survival Horror games well I guess they can be called adventure games, but I probably won't work on their articles because they don't really interest me. But if people are going to work on the articles, then I say add them. Hope that ramblings helped! lolKlytos 05:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps we should adhere to whatever adventure game says.--Wormsie 17:56, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Though adventure game isn't a perfect article, I agree with what Wormsie said. The term "adventure game" cannot be limited to point-and-click, but unfortunately, unlike other genres (FPS, for example), this one is rather broad and encompasses a number of subgenres (heck, some FPS games are also considered adventures by some, Deus Ex being a prominent example). Follow the suggestions of adventure game; if you have any specific doubts, the project can address your concerns on this talk page. Cromag talk to me 14:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your responses. After going away and thinking about it more the thought of watering-down the project with also-rans gave me a sinking feeling. Instead, I'll bring anything borderline back for discussion and leave survival horror games in their dingy basement. Congrats on the featured articles. A side note: I'm going to be bold and remove the adventure game project marker from Clock Tower 3 and its satellite article Lord Burroughs - it no longer resembles adventure and is a typical survival horror game, hope this is OK. QuagmireDog 16:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

In terms of the scope, I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't draw really strict guidelines and boundaries, but should assess each game in its own right. I mean adventure games are no ordinary genre - they can encompass a wide variety of subgenres. But still, there are a few must haves - Point-and-click are all in, regardless of any other factors; text games (which I am largely unfamiliar with) don't have to be added, only if there are those among you willing to really pour effort into them. I think I'm trying to say that we should add games that we will pour effort into, not games that will just stagnate. Agreed? --Paaerduag 04:11, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Based on the above responses, yesterday I added project templates to almost all items in the interactive fiction (text adventure) category. We all seem agreed on an individual assessment of each game rather than strict criteria, which is great. QuagmireDog 09:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Lol, what exactly is a text adventure game? --Paaerduag 09:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Colossal Cave Adventure and The Hobbit are two examples. That's what they were largely known as here in Blighty during the 8-bit computer era when they thrived, none of this 'interactive fiction'. Likewise, there were computer games and console games, the term 'video game' didn't get slung around much. When I say text adventure I mean interactive fiction from the earliest computers through to the 8/16 bit computer eras, as opposed to the modern IF movement. QuagmireDog 13:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessments now available

I've created the Assessment page, which will allow us to start tracking unassessed pages. It's worth reading, and you should follow the links for all the good stuff. Burns flipper 11:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Also the peer reviews. Burns flipper 13:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant stuff. I've started adding the tag to games in Category:Adventure Game. I've found most of the time when accessing articles I tend to agree with WP:CVG assessments. I don't suppose this is a problem, but I thought it worth mentioning.Klytos 10:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Burns. I've added the Assessment scale to the template, although I have no idea how we'll keep this thing up-to-date. Isn't there some kind of automated process whereby the number of articles in each cell is directly connected to the state of things at the moment, as we go along? Seems like an awful hassle to manually change the figures. As I type, I'm assessing adventure game articles based on importance; this in turn is based on my knowledge of the position a given game or series has within the scope of the genre (so of course, I don't assess games I haven't heard of). You're welcome to discuss and/or alter my assessments. I'll try to update the figures when I'm done; is the number of articles in the table based on the number of pages in the adventure games category or something else? Cromag talk to me 14:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I've found assessing the articles higher than in the CVG scale, just because any adventure game is more important for our project whereas adventure games in general are just a small niche in the CVG-project and therefore they have a lower importance rating there.--Wormsie 09:23, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Excellent work on the banner and assessment area. I've joined the project and been munching through as many assessments as possible, for quite a number of reasons. Once its back has been broken it will be easy to keep up to date. For the ratings to be balanced, there has to be a good number of low/no importance articles before we pack in the mid+ ones - therefore locating and rating as many articles as possible is important for setting the ultimate priorities. It's also one of those things which indicates to the readers at large that the project is actually alive and kicking. It'd also show how many stubs there are which need expanding etc. etc.

Now as far as the numerous important (mid+) titles such as Full Throttle, Maniac Mansion, King's Quest etc. etc. go, I'll try to place them in the right importance category, but this isn't intended to be 'the definitive' rating. It'll be a group decision as to what our 'top' and 'high' articles are going to be further down the line, rather than one member just arranging them as they see fit, but I'm putting them somewhere rather than leaving them dangling. Likewise, where to place the multiple sequels in the important series in regards to importance is probably going to have to be discussed so an informal guide can be set. For mid importance articles, I'd suggest as a guide once it gets more than 25% of the low rated articles then it probably needs bringing back in line. I just hope the table auto-updates at some point, I've been gawking at it for hours and its getting more and more wrong as assessments are made. Anyways, looking forward to working with y'all, I'll get back to more assessments. QuagmireDog 20:08, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Good points all around. I'm going to continue hunting for unassessed articles in a moment; I just wanted to mention that the table should be updated daily every two days (after double-checking). It doesn't seem to be very regular, but I had the same problem and noticed that the figures in the table do in fact change. Nothing we can do about the actions of WP 1.0 bot or how long it takes it to register the edits, unfortunately. Cromag talk to me 22:39, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amateur adventure games

The problem with the article Amateur adventure games (which, I'm afraid, is mostly written by me), is that it contains lots of original research. Not much has been written about amateur games - one possibility would be that I would interview some people, and then get, say Adventure Developers publish the article. Many print gaming magazines HAVE covered amateur games, so as an article it's very relevant, but they have mostly been concerned with the games, not the scene...--Wormsie 09:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I've personally stayed away from the Amateur adventure games articles because of being a founding member of Infamous Adventures, and I sorta see it as a conflict of interest. If it helps though, check out later interviews with "real" adventure game designers where they are generally asked about fan games. I know that Roberta Williams is asked and certainly Scott Murphy in his interview with Cris Skelton on Adventure Classic Games earlier this year. Otherwise I'm of the same opinion, there's not much out there on the subject although there is a lot on the actual games. I have an array of press clippings for IA's KQ3 release if you're interested, although I don't think they're much help. Most of them are the same as AGDI's clippings, "Remember this game? Some people remade it and it's cool for a laugh." Klytos 10:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you may well find some good sources for the article, I remember wondering where the heck I'd find information on Survival Horror to cite yet there was stacks. Here's one example: [1]. Now that's an article about a particular fan game as well as some general details of fan-games, but still a good potential citation. Likewise, Just Adventure has a massive database of articles, from which there must be some info that can be used as cites. Likewise, there are some other sites which could be of use, and it may well be worth throwing some google-nets out there and seeing what gets dredged up. There's also games like The Shivah which received press from both game journalists and non-gaming reporters - there might be some explanation of amateur gaming in those articles. There's also the other ideas you've suggested, but don't give up, it's only 'original research' until it's slapped with a reliable source. QuagmireDog 11:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Potential articles for project

Before slapping the template on them, can I have a second opinion on the following: Kroz series, The Thor Trilogy andZZT are crusty shareware games with ASCII characters, there's probably several more examples out there so some feedback on these would be good for the future.

Freescape is a 3D game game engine rather than an adventure specific engine, however its commercial (and pretty much only notable use) was to create games like Castle Master and Driller (video game). Can these three be signed up? QuagmireDog 20:10, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

No drama here. Seem adventure style games to me.Klytos 04:36, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Marvellous, done, except for Driller which on closer inspection looked suspect. Castle Master is one of my old favourites, it's all about exploration and riddles etc. Likewise, a couple of the other Freescape games would be suitable if they actually had articles.

Reet, here's some more for perusal: I noticed our sole GA article is Twilight Princess. There's always been "Zelda's no RPG, it's an advencha" discussions for as long as I can remember, so are we going to accept them as adventures and give the rest of the series an overly-familiar hug?

Looking backwards, there's the Dizzy series of games, the 'main' ones of which are what at least one spectrum magazine termed 'collect-em-ups', a small niche of games which was quite popular on the 8 bits and many of which were produced by Codemasters. They're basically fetch-quests with some basic platforming skills required - IE a character might want X item in order to let the player past, player finds X item, unlocks new areas, finds new items to give to other NPCs to access more areas etc. etc. Some (minor) puzzle elements may also be involved. Are collect-em-ups suitable for the project?

Then there's overhead action-adventure type things, like that Fester's Quest for the NES and more recently Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales (which is also stuffed with minigames, man this gets complicated). What about those? There are other examples of these scattered around, same with collect-em-ups (though many don't yet have articles). Again, this is for future reference as well. Thanks :) QuagmireDog 20:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, so Chocobo Tales has been seconded and added, but what about the Zelda series and Dizzy? Anyone? QuagmireDog 17:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead, if anyone is against then please discuss on my talk page. QuagmireDog 07:38, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Task forces

Task forces are supported by the template, so if we want to e.g. all focus on getting the Sierra articles up to the same standard, we can create a task force for this. Burns flipper 14:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Model article

I think it's important we define what information/sections we get on all articles as standard, so we can focus on gathering all the right information from the start. Burns flipper 14:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I've been working off the Agatha Christie articles because they're FA approved. Sections being Gameplay, Synopsis, Setting and characters, Plot, Development, Reception, References, External links.Klytos 03:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
As well as the article structure, a reference template for the cite web referencing system would be good - something to gently guide unfamiliar contributors into referencing. It's something that'd improve countless articles, doesn't actually take long once you get the hang of it and means there's no ugly 'no references' tags stuck all over. I use .<ref name="">{{cite web | url = | title = | author = Surname, Forename | publisher = | date = (wikilinked) YYYY-MM-DD | accessdate = YYYY-MM-DD }}</ref>, since it packs all the relevant information in, provides a (properly named) external link which is dated where available and the writer (if applicable) is creditted for their work. A similar point was raised on the VG discussion board recently and I think it's a valid one. QuagmireDog 02:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit bias, but I did draw from comments and criticisms of the Voyage article in working on the Agatha Christie articles. I'm of the opinion that the best article I've done is Murder on the Orient Express, and I can't see why that shouldn't be viewed as a model article. Also, since we're dealing with computer games I'm not sure that details like 'publisher' and 'author' are really that important as the majority of references are probably going to be off the internet. Just my pitch though, because of course book references are great. Paaerduag 04:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LucasArts template

What do you think about creating a template for all LucasArts games? This would be my suggestion:

Labyrinth • Maniac Mansion • Zak McKracken • Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade • Loom • The Secret of Monkey Island • Monkey Island 2 •Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis • Day of the Tentacle • Sam & Max Hit the Road • Full Throttle • The Dig • The Curse of Monkey Island • Grim Fandango • Escape from Monkey Island

--Mika1h 16:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I like it.. but is it better than a 'See also' link to the Lucasarts adventure article, which lists them all in the same way? QuagmireDog 14:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but the template facilitates quick access to each individual article from other related pages and makes it obsolete to include a long See also section in each LucasArts-related article. Great template, by the way. Cromag talk to me 19:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Just wondering - where are all the Star Wars games? --Paaerduag 07:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

None of the Star Wars games are adventure games, and that is a list of adventure games.--Wormsie 08:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a massive fan of these templates, but I must admit it's a nice tight template, not bloated or overly large. Since there seems to be no disagreement with its use would you be happy to roll it out Mika1h? QuagmireDog 18:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales - an adventure game?

The article says: "Chocobo Tales features a mix of three different types of gameplay; role-playing, exploration, and card battles." Exploration and the fact that it contains a story might give it adventure game-ish, but it seems to be quite far from traditional graphic adventures. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and I personally think that adventure games could use more variety, but is Chocobo Tales being called an adventure game going too far?--Wormsie 07:33, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah it can probably be removed. Kariteh 09:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Culpa Innata

Hello, everybody, I'd like to hear you opinions on two controversial issues about Culpa Innata article. Well, they are not really controversial, but JAF1970 and me have been butting heads over them since yesterday and it doesn't look like we are getting anywhere. These points are:

  1. The current content of See also section, the link to The Longest Journey article. TLJ has been mentioned twice in the JA+ review of Culpa Innata that's why JAF1970 insists that the two games are closely related (other arguments dismissed as original research). In my opinion, this mention belongs to the reception section where the review itself is detailed. At the very least, there should be a brief explanation why TLJ is notable in the context, as per WP:ALSO. JAF1970 refuses to do either (verbatim: "See also is where The Longest Journey will be, and remain.") and I don't want to start an edit war over this.
  2. The position of See also section: the WP:GTL lists the default sequence as "See also -> References -> External links", however, JAF1970 put see also to the very end, citing "a ton of GA class articles" (but naming none of them) as reference. Well, I tend to agree with official guidelines because, quite frankly, links to other Wikipedia articles preceding external links makes sense to me. Has been resolved, sorry, JAF1970 is too quick. ^^;;

I would like you to resolve our conflict, because I want that article to become something good (like, GA good), because it describes one of the best adventures of 2007 but is currently in danger of succumbing to an edit war. :( --Koveras ☭ 20:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. How is the Longest Journey relevant to the article? I don't think there's any point in mentioning The Longest Journey in the see also-section. I think the proper mention for review-quotes would be in the reception-section.--Wormsie 22:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
JAF1970 states his reason for including TLJ in the See Also: "Hey, if you liked THIS, check out THAT." This is POV. Also, as Koveras states in his discussion, why not start listing all third person point and clicks? The 'Categories' feature is where you find similar games. 'See Also' should contain things directly relevant to the article i.e. a link to the book it's based on. It doesn't add anything to the article about the subject of CI. Burns flipper 09:04, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adventure video game genres

A few hardworking people from the broader video game community has been working hard to clean up the video game genres article and template. Part of our work has stumbled onto the adventure game genre, which has a surprising lack of good research on the numerous subgenres. I'm no expert -- I played a few Sierra games as a kid, and have a soft spot for Maniac Mansion. But I figure I would point you to a few articles you may be able to help us with:

There's a healthy amount of information on text adventure games (listed as interactive fiction). But these other adventure subgenres could use some meat, to give adventure games their respectful importance compared to action games or role playing games. In the short term, these articles may even need a merge -- most graphical adventure games these days are point-and-click, save a brief period where a text parser was still used. Thanks in advance. Randomran (talk) 04:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Darkness Within

I happened to look up the Wikipedia articles on Darkness Within, and, looking at its discussion page, found that it was listed under the Video Games project, but not this one. AS I'm not a member of this project (or, for that matter, a signed-up member of Wikipedia ^^; ), I hesitate to add it to the project myself, and instead mention it here for the members of the project to consider. ^_^

It appears, at time of writing, to be a stub.

41.245.119.214 (talk) 15:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Just add it to every game that can be classified as an adventure game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mika1h (talk • contribs) 22:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)