Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio/HS Athletic Conferences

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Contents

[edit] InterWikiProject Collaboration

It has been suggested that WikiProject Ohio take the lead to fix these articles to meet any quality standards that they currently don't. In addition to WikiProject Ohio; the help of WikiProject Sports and WikiProject Schools has been enlisted. I hope this effort will produce 40 atleast start class; well referenced articles. This page will function as a main discussion point away from one specific project page.

[edit] Subpages

[edit] Participant list

Conflict-of-interest caution: If you are an employee or student of a school in one of these conferences or in particular an employee of a conference, it's best if you don't actively edit or lobby for or against that particular conference. Your help is welcome for the other conferences. Alumna and former employees are generally free of any COI, but be careful if you are a major donor or you have a retirement plan paid for by the conference itself. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 00:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Information Sources

List information sources here


[edit] Comparison chart

This chart is copied from this post-closure edit of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pioneer Conference.

It's in dispute whether being a high school athletic conference is itself clearly notable, near the border between notable and not notable, or clearly not notable. If being a high school athletic conference is clearly notable, then all articles, even stubs, should pass. If being a high school athletic conference is inself near the border between notable and not notable, then well-written articles plus articles that have an independent claim of clear notability should pass. If it's clearly not notable, then even an article that otherwise meets FA standards should fail unless the individual conference either clearly notable or is a well-written article near the border between notable and not notable. It's the consensus of editors here that the normal rules of "receives significant non-trivial media coverage equals notability" doesn't apply here, if it does, as evidenced by the fact that we didn't speedy-close this as "keep all/snow" on day one.

To help those who think school conferences are marginally or almost notable, as well as those who want to delete all which do not have an independent claim of clear notability, I've prepared this table. Please make corrections and additions.

This chart is incomplete. Please strike this line when it is complete.

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Former Pioneer Conference

I performed a selective merge of this former conference into newly formed Northeast Ohio Conference to help expand that page. Frank Anchor is working hard at it now. --UWMSports (talk) 21:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

  • I have added info to Northeast Ohio Conference pertaining to the Pioneer Conference. I would appreciate it if someone would be able to add similar info about the Western Reserve Conference - I am not too familar on that league. Frank Anchor Talk to me (R-OH) 02:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion to other states

If we are able to get consensus on maintenance of high school conference articles, and that they do meet notability when going beyond a simple link of schools, should we make up a series of guidelines on what to include/not include so that this debate doesn't get repeated for other states? matt91486 (talk) 21:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Lets see a plan on the 27 or so articles that UWMSports deems as delete. I will probably bundle these as an AfD if something isn't laid out to improve these articles within the next couple days. --GoHuskies9904 (talk) 21:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, you should probably give them more than a couple days. If you give them a month, that allows the community to work on one conference a day. I'd say that two or three days is hardly adequate time to improve 27 articles. matt91486 (talk) 21:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Looking for a plan at the moment, if things start moving, I'll obviously give more time for the articles to be improved. I realize things take time, but a plan can be put together quicker. --GoHuskies9904 (talk) 21:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Please, give this some time before going on about deletions so soon. The pages UWM marked for deletion and the ones marked for expansion should all be given time to mature as articles during this effort. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Again, I'm looking for just an outline (detailed) on how to improve the articles. I will give a week from right now for that to happen. If this is ignored, I am going to repost. If I see a plan and people start to work on that plan, I will delay or possibly cancel my plans to re-AfD those articles. --GoHuskies9904 (talk) 22:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The best thing to do is to look through local newspaper archives. For this one, I would guess just search through the archives of the major Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Akron, and Toledo papers for the conference titles, which should provide some sourcing for conference histories, championships, and movements. I did a little bit of work on a Minnesota conference, the Tri-Metro Conference. A lot of times, the archives are pay downloads; however, the pertinent information will usually be in the intro paragraph which is shown as a preview and can be used to show an adequate source. That's the joys of newspapers, they like to lead with the big stuff, so you'll be able to see who won/who moved without paying. matt91486 (talk) 00:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

A search at http://news.google.com/ usually turns up some good results as well. I'll let Frank12 and JonRidinger know that this has started as they have volunteered to help get an article standard. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 00:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Drafts

Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio/HS Athletic Conferences/Drafts contains copies of all articles for draft work purposes. If the article you would like to start editting is outdated just clear the page and place. {{subst::Article Name}}. (yep, two colons). Before going anywhere we need to setup a general article layout. This will include, possibly, creating new infoboxes and other templates. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

This is a good start. Should pick an article to make the guinea pig for improving the articles. --GoHuskies9904 (talk) 22:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm moving the /Drafts to the right parent page, can someone start at the bottom of the list and work up while I work from the top down? Thanks. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 22:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC) DONE! - the chart now has direct links to the drafts and their talk pages davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 23:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
How about conferences that don't have articles? If you plan on improving those 27 articles, how about planning to create conferences that don't have pages. That would make sense. While I still think those 27 should be deleted, it would make sense to plan on those non-article conferences after a plan and approval is granted to keep the 27. That's down the road though. --BurpTheBaby (Talk) 02:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What every article needs

This should help serve as a list of what each article needs to establish its content coherently and notably; as well as set standards for article appearance.

This is a work in progres, add or remove things as you see fit.

  1. Infobox similar to Western Buckeye League, (if we get all the params agreed upon I wouldn't mind writing it) Stepshep
  2. Maps of where schools are located
  3. Conference template to be placed on all of the participating school's articles
  4. Past championships in some sort of chart form
  5. Conference logo
  6. History
  7. School rivalries?

See Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio/HS Athletic Conferences/Templates/Model for an active model of what each article should look like.

I'd say that the infobox in general is a great idea. I'd remove the regional template, though, that should be more than covered in the states and country information. If there was a box for total state championships, I'd support that as well. Maybe a Conference Commissioner infobox parameter would be good? And a logo spot, in case the conference has a logo. That's all I can think of for parameter changes. Anyone else? matt91486 (talk) 02:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I lied. A date of dissolving would also be necessary, for conferences that are now defunct. I'm not sure how we should phrase it, but there definitely needs to be a parameter for that. matt91486 (talk) 02:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Southern Ohio Conference is one of the best articles so far, it can be a good model. It probably has things that aren't required though. Perhaps we should draft a model article and fill it with boilerplate, clearly indicating mandatory and desirable information, say, by italic or color-code. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
That article definitely has a good deal of information, but it needs to be cleaned up. It's really messy at its current state. David, the template you purpose is a good idea. --GoHuskies9904 (talk) 03:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree, it is a bit messy. I would suggest turning the section of championships to a chart of some kind. Kind of tough to follow at its current state. This article could be the guinea pig for others however with a bit of work. --UWMSports (talk) 16:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
What else needs to be added to Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio/HS Athletic Conferences/Templates/Infobox? I hope I got the basics. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
If we could get one in for total state championships won by member schools, I think it'd be good. Also, it might be good to give the infobox a more general name like high school conferences or something, so that it can get into more widespread use. I'll start putting it on some of the other states too. matt91486 (talk) 01:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
You could put the maps in the infobox if there isn't a logo from the conference. If there is a logo, the existing maps can go elsewhere in the article. --UWMSports (talk) 03:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

And as far as Southern Ohio Conference is concerned. Turn the championship mega list into the chart shown on the template and it will be pretty darn close to the model article you guys are seeking. --UWMSports (talk) 03:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ya, as soon as the box is finish being drafted we can put it in the Template namespace. I think I have found a way to incorporate the map and logo together. I don't think I'm sure about the total champs won thing, but I'll try it and see if that's what you meant. It should be finished within the next half hour or so. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good; I'll test it out when it's available. matt91486 (talk) 05:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and by the way, what I'm looking for is just a parameter to say "State championships" with just a number listed in the box, to indicate the total state championships won by member schools during a conferences' duration. matt91486 (talk) 06:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Speaking of templates, I threw an example of /Templates/High School athletics row into /Templates/Model so you can see what it looks like. Comments welcome. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I think they are incredibly helpful for current conferences. I created one a while back for the conference I've done most of my work on, and I've noticed that several of the conferences in Minnesota do use them (interestingly, sometimes for conferences in which there isn't even an article yet). matt91486 (talk) 05:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Would something similar to Template:Western Buckeye League be able to be adapted for all of the articles? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 16:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 17:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Started standardizing with Template:Blanchard Valley Conference. Should be able to finish the rest today. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 17:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
These templates can be used in lists of conferences, conference pages, and on member schools. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)17:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ran into things today, hope to finish the footers by the weekend. Also moved the infobox to Template:HS Conference. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 00:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

In addition to the total state championships line, I also think a total sports participated in number would be good. That way if there's just 1, it's obvious. That would be the other parameter I'd request. Those are, I think, pretty easy, but I do have one perhaps harder to code suggestion as well. Is it possible to make the notable people heading and map heading disappear if there isn't any information in those sections? For example, look at the Metro Alliance article: there are just two orphan headers there at the moment. Is there a way to make them not appear unless there is content in their respective boxes, or is that just not possible? I honestly don't know either way, but it would make it look better for the conferences with less information in those areas. matt91486 (talk) 02:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Yep, I've asked someone to look into hiding those earlier today. {{#if's aren't really my thing. And just so I;m clear on the state championships thing.
  • School 1 - Number won
  • School 2 - Number won
  • School 3 - Number won
Something like that? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 02:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
That could work, but I was thinking something even simpler, and put the school tallies later in the content. For the main infobox, I was just thinking "Total State Championships - 27" and amalgamating all championships won by the conference members. matt91486 (talk) 02:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I've got one more thing to come up with the template, as you Shep already noticed - the template automatically adds the conference to the Ohio category. Is there any we can remove that parameter, so that the template can be used by other states? As an extra note, I double checked that it's in there; I thought about just deleting it myself, and realized I'd probably manage to screw up the code, so I'm just going to let someone who is more confident with the code remove it so I don't break anything, haha. matt91486 (talk) 03:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. Should be fixed now. Pee Tern fixed up the template to hide those sections if they're not called upon. And I'm adding the total champs right now. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 16:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Good work fellas, definitely earning some time. --GoHuskies9904 (talk) 17:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Let's make the list approach featured-list status

Many articles won't "make the grade" due to either notability issues or not enough information to make a good article, or both.

I'm thinking that as we do this, we can create templates that will be useful both in articles and in lists. There are at least 2 of the 40 that are clearly notable enough for stand-alone articles. Other articles will survive AfD if they are so well-written that AfD participants won't have the heart to kill them off. However, the bulk will wind up in a list. If we can make that list a model for other, similar lists to follow that would be a great contribution to Wikipedia. I'll draft up some templates in the coming days.

As you create templates in the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ohio/HS_Athletic_Conferences namespace, add them to the list above the discussions. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I have a template for lists of schools, either within a conference article or within a "list of conferences" article. /Drafts/Blanchard Valley Conference demonstrates this with 3 schools done so far. If anyone knows how to make table cells optional that would be great, no sense in having empty cells lying around. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

template is greatly updated as is the transcluded documentation. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 00:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of school districts in Ohio

As you find information on school districts, consider improving the district articles. The school district's article should be the name it uses to describe itself. List of school districts in Ohio has a lot of misnamed districts. If you know for a fact that a name in that list is wrong, fix it and move the article if necessary. For redlinks, be sure to open the redlink for editing then check "what links here" to see if any other articles use the same incorrect redlink. If they do, fix them as well. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maps

For these school maps for the conferences, I've just got a couple questions. The first, where do I find the base county maps to work with? Is there a part of the site that has all county maps available somewhere? Also, what's the best recommendation of how to create them program wise. I'm running a map, so is just doing it in Photoshop easiest, lacking Paint? matt91486 (talk) 02:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd definitely go with PhotoShop if you have it. Or better yet, Inkscape, and make the maps SVGs. Just be sure the maps you use are free use. I don't see fair use being able to be used within this context. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Alright, I've taken your advice and downloaded Inkscape. Hopefully I can get everything worked out quickly and try and make some. I'll do my best to follow the existing design conventions, assuming I can figure it out. matt91486 (talk) 22:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Can't wait to see the results! §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm working on converting the whole map of Ohio tht Frank used into an SVG. I'll post the image here when I'm done. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
It's going to take me a little longer, I've gotta find my OSX discs to install the X11 software - it should be easy once I track down where I misplaced them to, haha matt91486 (talk) 23:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] See also


[edit] References

there probably won't be any but who knows?