Wikipedia:WikiProject Emo music/Discussion

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[edit] Bands Under Discussion

[edit] Title

WikiProject On Emo Music - The Used

[edit] Arguments for why The Used is emo

Here goes discussion about The Used being related to Emo Music in any form

The Used refers to themselves as an emo band, their subject matter is emo (in that it discusses death, suicide etc), their music is guitar based alternative rock centralising on "dark" chord structures and the band dresses in emo fashion. It's not a far stretch to consider that they're an emo band, since they consider themselves to be. --lincalinca 08:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

unfortunately because "emo" has become such a derogatory term and is commonly used incorrectly, and almost leads to a new definition. in the same sense that "ass" does not actually mean "butt," "emo" (as far as a musical genre is concerned) does not actually mean screaming, songs about death and dying, songs about cutting, long dark hair covering one eye, tight jeans, etc. but because so many people continue to use the word incorrectly, it becomes popular "knowledge", and then becomes new word. so under a slang definition (or a word more suited for the "urban dictionary" than an actual dictionary or encyclopedia) then the used could be considered emo. Fezmar9 (talk) 19:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I have previously laid out my arguments for why they are emo here. I'll cut n paste it to keep the debate in one place:
“ They clearly have alternative influences, but those are superseded by their emo, or "emotive hardcore" style. Anyone who makes the claim that they are just alternative has most likely only heard their singles. The fact that they are first and foremost an emo band is apparent on songs like "Maybe Memories", "Say Days Ago", "A Box Full of Sharp Objects", "Take It Away", "Listening", "Sound Effects and Overdramatics", "I'm a Fake", etc. Alternative proponents often point to songs like "The Taste of Ink", "Blue and Yellow", "Greener with the Scenery", "Noise and Kisses", "All That I've Got", "Cut up Angels", etc. This doesn't hold, as those songs are constructed like power ballads, and maintain the emo sound, and screaming. Which brings me to the biggest reason why they aren't alternative -- the vocal style. Alternative rock doesn't have the kind of screaming Bert does, which is influenced by emo/post-hardcore. While their latest album took a turn in the direction of alternative, the emo is still apparent, and their b-sides are a lot like their older songs. I would call their latest effort "emo-prog" or "emo-crossover", like MCR's The Black Parade album.

To sum it up, The Used have songs where their alternative influences are quite apparent, yet they still end up sounding like themselves, and emo/screamo. They have songs that are straight up hardcore, softer acoustic ones(every emo band has a few), alt-rock influenced power ballads, and the rest of their material would fall somewhere in between. Basically, they take emo/screamo and make it their own, sounding like nothing else, and that leads to confusion.

 „
Lets try to keep this argument to their sound and not image, eventhough The Used qualifies as emo based on that. Arguments can be made based on their sound alone. --Pwnage8 (talk) 16:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Arguments against why The Used is emo

No The Used, is not emo music, it is rock/punk. Some of there songs relate to death etc but some songs actually have meanings to the band or the lead singer Bert and generally songs tell a story whether the stories are fiction or truth. I don't think a band would purposely sing about death. Look at the used image they don't act emo.

in the recent decade, EMO MUSIC has been confused with an EMO IMAGE or STEREOTYPE. emo music is not a sound produced by any instrument, but rather a lyrical element conveying a strong emotion. although almost all songs include an emotion, it is specifically emo music that effectively gets the feeling across via a calculated use of words. the used does not produce songs in this fashion and therefor should not be considered emo. many bands get unfairly and unreasonably dumped into this genre in a derogatory sense because of their image. other such bands include: aiden, my chemical romance, silverstein, and taking back sunday. the music that the used creates is of a punk and or rock nature, occasionally mixed with some darker elements and images. Fezmar9 (talk) 19:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Conclusion

The result of the debate

[edit] Title

WikiProject On Emo Music - My Chemical Romance

[edit] Positive

Here goes discussion about My Chemical Romance being related to Emo Music in any form


I'm sorry but to me they sound emo and look emo. Also there are sources, look at VH1s site All music guide, MTV, MTV2. And I believe but an not sure that they have been listed as emo in magasines such as Rolling Stone and Blender

-JIC

My Chemical Romance IS NOT emo. If you think they are emo because they wear black and makeup then your wrong. My Chemical Romance is an amazing band and people don't give them a chance because they just stereotype them as emo. Their lyrics also ARE NOT emo. My Chemical Romance wants to make a difference in the world; To show people life can be hell but there is still h hope and not to give up. Some songs might seem emo but they aren't, They have meaningful meanings to them. - Eat that (: XD

Black hair. Make-up. Emotional lyrics, songs, and videos. And a whole ton of emo kids at their concerts. Their lyrics aren't emo? Emo lyrics can heave meanings. The sky might seem blue but it isn't. Essentially you could say that statement is true, but regardless it's irrelevant, especially if I don't back it up, and you didn't.

My Chemical Romance is not emo, there songs have nothing to do with them killing them self, i love them, i am just starting to dress like them and theres no way im emo, the lead singer was all that but hes has changed, and he does not get drunk anymore, he lernt hes lesson. so never ever let me hear anyone say they are emo, they just like to dress like that.


 Please note im putting a copy of this post in the For catigory because it is empty despite people who share my views posting

According to this, MCR may, IMO, meet these qualifactions as an emo band;

  • In Emo music extreme emphasis is placed on raw emotion, which is conveyed through heartbroken and sometimes angry lyrics and through emotionally-charged chord progressions and high-energy beats [1].
  • The music is designed to be highly dramatic, taking the listener through a series of powerful ups and downs with constant lyrical reminders of the heartbreak and pain the music is meant to reflect. Harmony is used alot in emo, particularly to accent certain words and concepts, and emo music on the whole tends to emphasize melody and lyricism [2].
  • drastic change from soft slow melodies into heavy guitarworks (with an increasing temp) and then back to the original quiet part [3].
  • Epic-length songs that build up very slowly to a climax where vocal style resembles crying. Songs of this type can be extremely powerful and moving (definetly in their first album) [4].
  • alternately loud and quiet musical parts, and shifty dynamics also known as "time changes" [5].
  • most of these bands play extremely fast, and introduce the "chaos" concept to hardcore [6].
  • Lyrics tend toward somewhat abstract poetry, and are usually low in the mix and hard to decipher. Record inserts have lyrics, but often so disorganized and haphazard that they're very difficult to read [7].

Feel free to debate. íslenskur fellibylur #12 (samtal) 01:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The only think I would have to say is that some of those sources I would not say are reliable. I am not saying what you are saying is wrong, but rather I don't know if some of the sources could be trusted, especially the Angelfire ones. Also, I am not sure if this discussion should be going on anymore since we are now doing the sourced method for the subgenres as Emo is not the main genre of My Chemical Romance (and emo is listed as a possible sub genre). Also, I do not think that the lyrics in any of the albums could be described as "crying" or anything like that but rather desperation and maybe anger. There is intensity in some of their lyrics. Anyways those are just my thoughts.  Orfen User Talk | Contribs 05:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Negative

Here goes discussion about My Chemical Romance NOT being related to Emo Music in any form

[edit] Band MySpace

The bands myspace [8] lists then as Rock/Metal and I aggree to this somewhat. There music is metal influanced in the same way that Queen was, and theres also some punk in their as well.--Lotrgamemast 17:10, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment- A band's MySpace cannot truly be trusted, however, I do probably agree with what you say.  Orfen User Talk 21:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Whatever genre a band says they are, that's straight from the horse's mouth info, and really only elitists would dispute it. For example, I am bohemian, but many elitists would try to dispute this because I don't live in an East Village style loft, am not part of any countercularal resistance movements, and do not have an Abbie Hoffman-esque desire to crusade against "injustice." But those elitists would be wrong (and full of crap), I know what I am better than they do. See where I am going with this?

[edit] Lack of Emo Sources

There are no reliable sources calling My Chemical Romance emo. Most are editorials and the fact that the title of one of My Chemical Romance's singles is called "I'm Not Okay". Also people are calling them emo because of their image and not for their music. My Chemical Romance's image and music genre are two different things and we are looking for a consensus on their genre not the style of clothes they wear or the way they look. For My Chemical Romance's genre I would suggest Alternative Rock, Post-hardcore, Punk rock, and Horror rock. But mention the term emo and metal somewhere within the article.  Orfen User Talk 21:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Emo is generally the fashion style relating to hardcore, or at least it was originally. So your argument is invalid. Try again.

Thing is, their image isn't emo either. Rock musicians have had dark hair and makeup since the time of Syd Barret and David Bowie, and no sane person could call either of them emo. 25 October 2006

They dye their hair black and wear make-up and black clothing. If you're going to tell me that every rock band does that, I'm going to call you f**king retarded.

Im sorry but to me they sound emo and look emo. Also there are sources, look at VH1s site All music guide, MTV, MTV2. And i believe but an not sure that they have been listed as emo in magasines such as Rolling Stone and Blender

-JIC

 Please note im putting a copy of this post in the For catigory because it is empty despite people who share my views posting
They seem emo to you because you're an elitist. They are supposed to look dark, to fit the songs they sing. They are NOT emo because they have a sense of humor, emo doesn't. Emo is all about whiny candyasses complaining about their life. Those trades you mention list Evanescence as "metal" or "gothic rock" but that doesn't make that true either.
Easy there big trucker, no one here is being elitist. Basically, I'm of the opinion that if a band is willing to either define themselves as emo, or a majority of their fan base identifies with that youth culture, it's safe to say that the band in question can be considered a part of it as well --Threatis 23:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


I would say they are just good at what they do. They fit 'Emo' with some songs, 'Rock Band' with others and even 'Pop'. Why anyone feels the need to box a band is beyond me. Why not accept a band on what it does and on sales MCR are massive, their following comes from all spectrums. I know that a large group of Maiden(Iron) supporters follow MCR and the Green Day fans that can still see what drew them to the early Greenday in this band, add to that the pure rock followers that like what they do, and you find you have covered a huge gamut of genres. They have a Queen edge to their performances with the energy of early Greenday and tight lyrics and beats that, you could argue, would be fitting of the Beastie Boys. That's a lot of bases covered, they enjoy what they do and they do it damn well. So if you are so desperate to classify them maybe they are Pop-Rock-Emo-Hip-Hop. 172.142.52.21 20:13, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment from Ehsivar Cuodo:

My Chemical Romance are a pop-punk band, and once were a poorly defining example of post-hardcore in their Bullets album. To prove my point on the pop-punk bit, I find their pop-punk dynamics to be similar to Alkaline Trio, what with the dark imagery, lyrics, and melodic power chords/punk style. As for post-hardcore, they shift away from typical punk and add different elements to their music.

Now as for emo, that's impossible. There are three types of emo. Rites of Spring, Moss Icon, and Fire Party are part of the first wave of emo, known as emocore. My Chemical Romance sounds nothing like these bands. Heroin, Antioch Arrow, and Three Studies For a Crucifixion were part of the second wave- the hardcore emo and screamo genres respectively. My Chemical Romance sounds nothing like these bands either. Then there was the third wave- the one that ended up starting emo's notoriety: Post-emo indie rock. Bands include Cap'n Jazz, Sunny Day Real Estate, and early Jimmy Eat World. Jimmy Eat World became popular, and people associated them with emo, and emo became a fad as we know it. Of course, the story is not that simple, but for the sake of brevity, I leave it there. My Chemical Romance sounds nothing like those bands either.

Either call them a melodic punk, pop-punk, a post-hardcore band, or use all the terms. But one thing is certain: They are not an emo band.

[edit] Conclusion

they dress black, they like black, they like to look evil, but they are not emo, if they were they would say if they were emo. so they are NOT emo. Emo is a stereotype, slitting your wrists is unheathey, MCR thinks so too!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They r an awesome band and on youtube in almost every interview, they joke around... ALOT

The fact of the matter is, you can't give emo a specific definition. Emo doesn't necessarily mean slitting your wrists, and it doesn't mean they won't joke around on youtube... I think you're the person conforming your opinions to stereotypes. Also B sure 2 use proper grammer, its really annoying when ur statement iz just 1 long runon sentance. 4n|) 17 m4|<35 U l00k l1k3 4 r374|2|)


They are awesome and my opion may be biased because im a dieheart my chemical romance fan but im sure as hell NOT EMO and i can see how some people may think that MCR is emo but they are the people who nvr have even listened to their music! F**K OFF MCR HATTERS!!

I listen to their music. I think they're emo.

                                                          myspace.com/smarty_123 for questions


They're pop, no different from Britney Spears, Green Day, or Backstreet Boys. Clinton (talk) 02:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Ehsivar Cuodo says:

That would imply that they don't write their own music- which, as unbelievable as it sounds, they do. The same goes for Green Day, who write their music.


Ok, I removed my sig and any mention of me from this discussion. If you'd like to see what my original post was, here it is: [9] This is the first time I've edited this page since then. Some IPs tampered with what was written here, putting words in my mouth.[10][11] And sign your posts, please. --Pwnage8 (talk) 00:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HIM is Emo?

HIM isn't because they are gothic. If they are then so should Marilyn Manson.Bombtom 11:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American Football

American Football should be added to this project.
American Football (band)
Tholcomb (talk) 12:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)