Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music

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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Music. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting.

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1 Music
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3 Bands and musicians
4 Bands & musicians Proposed deletions
5 Bands and musicians Templates for deletion

[edit] Music

[edit] Rapozof

Musical performer whose notability is not easily confirmed. Ecoleetage (talk) 19:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 22:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete fails notability guidelines for music WP:NM. Not easy to verify notability as music is in language other than English. AlbinoFerret (talk) 23:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lior navok

Contested prod. Apart for possible notability issues, the original author, User:Liornavok, which I presume is the Lior navok in question, has claimed ownership of copyright over the text (possible implicit ownership of the article itself?) -- and that is incompatible with Wikipedia's GFDL. ArglebargleIV (talk) 16:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Weak Keep if he can reliably source the awards and fix the copyright issues, it's reasonably notable and worthwhile despite the admitted COI. Jclemens (talk) 18:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I dunno If the article's claims are true, we should certainly keep, but if the entire article is copyrighted, we have no choice but to delete. Beeblbrox (talk) 18:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The more I look into this, the more it seems that he wrote this article for Wikipedia, then tried to put his own copyright on the Wikipedia page, in order to claim ownership. I think this may just be a huge misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is, but probably isn't an actual copyright violation. I have warned the author about conflict of interest editing and I see the copyright issue is already under discussion on his and the article's talk pages. Beeblbrox (talk) 18:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete No independent cites. --Ave Caesar (talk) 19:27, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 19:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 19:44, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep and rewrite - even if someone writes just 1 line, it's better than a copyvio. The subject is notable however, lots of independent sites mentioning him, a sufficient amount of accomplishment, and there are enough Google hits to clearly display that he isn't an average NN Joe. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Out Here Grindin'

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Out Here Grindin'

Non-notable single by barely-notable DJ. Damiens.rf 07:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep - Single/song has charted. Meets WP:MUSIC. Wisdom89 _{(_T / ^C)} 07:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Wisdom89 _{(_T / ^C)} 07:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- Wisdom89 _{(_T / ^C)} 07:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep - Single has proof of a high-cost video being made via worldstarhiphop.com video.Y5nthon5a (talk) 15:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
- Also, may I ask why you consider DJ Khaled a non-notable DJ? He's had many hit singles, such as I'm So Hood, We Takin Over, Grammy Family, and more.Y5nthon5a (talk) 21:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep because song has charted. It's only charted in the top 75 so far,but that could change when it's officially released. ILikeMusicaLot (talk) 18:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Simulated City Records

No evidence of how this is notable per WP:MUSIC. Only two releases thus far, both by one of the two operators. Drat (Talk) 02:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related page for the same reasons:

Delete, fails notability per WP:CORP. The second one fails WP:MUSIC. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 12:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete per above (for both) unless further references indicating notability are added. --Faradayplank (talk) 15:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Beatles' characters

I know it's the Beatles, but this is not notable - and all these characters can be discussed in the individual articles. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 10:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

On second thoughts, looking at this, this page should be deleted and locked. The guy has had the page deleted before. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 10:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy Delete per WP:SPEEDY G4: Recreation of deleted material. -- JediLofty ^{User ¦ Talk} 10:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete. It's not eligible for speedy (G4) as it has not had a previous AfD discussion. The article should be removed, but I'd like to see some of the information sourced and put in the various articles. BradV 12:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep as it is, or convert to prose. I don't think the argument that it is not notable is valid. It is as notable as, or more notable than List of Kill Bill characters or other similar pages. Another argument, that there are no sources, is true, but I think it should be kept for the same reason we keep plot summaries in film articles (the film itself is the source). Perhaps this could be placed as prose into The Beatles, but that article is already quite lengthy. Ward3001 (talk) 14:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Characters in films are different to characters referenced perhaps one or twice in a song. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 15:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

How? What makes film characters more notable than characters in a song, especially when more people have heard the song than have seen the film? Ward3001 (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep - Every character and every song can easily be sourced. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and this is an encyclopedic article. Several characters have entered pop culture... Particularly notable is the list of real people included in the songs, near the end of the article... Frog47 (talk) 19:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete: Non-notable. A character mentioned or reference in a song is much different that a character in a book or film (and even those characters should have established notability, sources, and out-of-universe information). Mr. Absurd (talk) 02:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

How? What makes film characters more notable than characters in a song, especially when more people have heard the song than have seen the film? Ward3001 (talk) 02:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't really think you can make any valid comparison between a character in a film and a character in a song. I mean, for one thing, a film character actually appears on screen, has conversations, a backstory, personality, etc., and besides the in-universe information there's the origin of the character, perhaps casting or production information, development of character, etc. This really wouldn't be possible for a character in a song. Also, the reason for having lists of characters is because characters are vital to the plot of a film. I don't really see the point of this list at all. Mr. Absurd (talk) 04:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, the character Eleanor Rigby is vital to the song Eleanor Rigby, as are hundreds of other characters in The Beatles' music. And I think it's fair to say that, within the time restrictions of a song (about two to four minutes), most of The Beatles' characters are developed (i.e., personality, backstory, etc.) about as much as a film character could be developed in two to four minutes. Ward3001 (talk) 05:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Metallica in the media

Not notable fancruft. This is just trivia. On another note, most popular bands have left their mark in the media but this does not justify a page. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 10:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, delete.Hoponpop69 (talk) 14:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete Main page has extensive section on significance of Metallica; no need to document every mention of the band. --Thetrick (talk) 17:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rob Ferguson

An article about an individual who is famous because he has met some famous people. Unencyclopedic content. Speedy tag had previously been removed. sparkl_!sm ^hey! 13:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete - No references, questionable image rationales. Limetolime ^{Talk to me} ^• ^{look what I did!} 13:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment - images on this page should probably be checked to see if they are truly non-copyrighted --T-rex 14:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete I rm some pov in the article and re-read it. Delete per WP:SOAP. I don't get the sense he's notable but he sure as hell wants to be! Faradayplank (talk) 16:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete – Could find no information out about this particular Rob Ferguson. And to be honest, I am not even sure about his claim on managing Matt Goss. If that is an actual fact, I’m quite sure I wouldn’t bring it up in that it is quoted, in the Matt Goss piece “…the incompetent management they had’ was part of the cause for their downfall. Either way, delete. ShoesssS ^Talk 18:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Inclined to Delete: I haven't researched it, but from my first sight of this article, it had the aura of a vanity page. I landed there by chasing mis-spellings of Townshend. Before I even corrected that, I put the cleanup tag on it. Hu (talk) 02:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chris Taylor Bass Style

No reliable sources exist to show notability. While searching for sources, I performed a google search which resulted in only one hit (and I bet you can figure out what that one hit is).[1] Prod removed by an editor who cleaned the article up a bit. Ice Cold Beer (talk) 05:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete The article has lots of subjective WP:OR elements and is certainly not notable as Ice Cold Beer notes. Also, it is totally unverifiable. Artene50 (talk) 09:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, WP:OR, WP:RS, & WP:V. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 12:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete- not notable enough to be an encyclopaedic article Kalivd (talk) 14:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep- there are citations out there, just gotta find them. Very notable style of bass-guitar playing. General Epitaph (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment If there are reliable sources for this subject, where are they? Artene50 (talk) 01:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2007 Latin American Tour

Not notable Tenacious D Fan (talk) 16:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete Doing a search on Yahoo, I found no sources that could be used to assert notability, as required by WP:MUSIC. I can't see how this could be merged into the Coldplay article, so I think deletion would be best, unless notability can be asserted. Steve Crossin (talk)(email) 17:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

deleting would be a stupid decision. OK, there's the sources issue, but THE TOUR DID EXIST ahaha.... so, let's find them and end this thing. its a respectable 10-gig tour (with huge significance to the band's future), it should have an article. i don't know how to do the source thing, but go to www.wikicoldplay.com and theres a 'wiki' article with this tour practically with the same content as this. 190.245.134.176 (talk) 21:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 00:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, the question here isn't whether the tour exists, it's whether it is notable. Delete per WP:NN & WP:RS. Pretty much the same for Viva la Vida World Tour too. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete I can't believe there's even a category for "Coldplay tours," let alone articles to fill it. Not notable, maybe worth sharing a sentence with another tour in the main article, if someone can find a source. J293339 (talk) 23:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Pocket Studios

Non notable company, no notable sources that I can see. Only one 3rd party ref that does not seem notable/reliable. Previously deleted under CSD A7 but recreated a matter of hours later. Added a primarysources template but was removed several times by the article's single editor without suitable sources given. Delete. Rehevkor (talk) 21:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete I can't really argue that this article is about a notable business, as there are no references and only one outside source which can be argued as non notable. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 23:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Speedy Delete WP:CSD#G4. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 00:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two Five

Not notable enough to have an article. Shadyaftrmathgunit (talk) 16:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete per WP:MUSIC. All the usual problems: unsigned, no albums yet, etc. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, article fails to establish notability as per WP:MUSIC & WP:NOTINHERITED. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete Fails WP:N with no independent sources. Artene50 (talk) 04:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.--Kubigula (talk) 21:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Herschell Wynton

Article about a producer who has produced 1 million songs (an unsourced statement of course). Gives 5 references but none are articles with non-trivial coverage about this guy, per WP:MUSIC... most are just track listings. We need better sources, otherwise the article should be deleted. Rividian (talk) 17:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete I doubt that anyone could produce a million songs, that's probably an exaggeration or total BS. The lack of reliable sources is most telling, as is the lack of background in the infobox (hate it when people do that). Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 18:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete per lack of verifiable reliable sourcing. ArcAngel (talk) (Review) 20:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete. The claim to producing a million songs seems to be based on the idea that the subject created 62 samples, which were supposedly downloaded 1.5 million times, and most of those downloads were by other artists to use those samples in their songs. Thus, he supposedly contributed to a million songs. I can't find sources to support his claims, though. The subject may well be an up and coming music producer, but being up and coming is not necessarily enough to satisfy WP:MUSIC. For this article to be kept, the hype would need to be toned down and the sources would need to be boosted up. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete. Poor sources, not notable. CosineKitty (talk) 17:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 13:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[edit] Tru Thoughts

Doesn't seem to be a notable label; sources given are primary or Discogs, not reliable.

Also nominating related musicians and albums::

Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 16:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 16:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep Notable in my opinion. Sure the articles could need some improvement and additional sources. The keyword 'Tru Thoughts' gets 250.000 hits on Google. However, I am not sure if separate articles for the individual releases are needed. They might be merged into the main artist's articles. Splette :) ^{How's my driving?} 19:07, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete per WP:CORP. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Please unbundle Too many different issues here, some may be notable and not others. Are there established criteria for notability of record labels? I'm indenting some !votes that may be spread out over different debates if this is unbundled. Mangostar (talk) 02:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep QSO and merge to Will Holland I could find several profiles of the band by reliable sources. Non-trivial profile coverage from Lexis: Nige Tassell, "For those about to squawk", The Guardian (London), December 7, 2007 (1094 wds); "An eclectic set from quantic", Bristol Evening Post, July 12, 2007 (674 wds); Andrew Drever, "Young and Restless", The Age (Melbourne, Australia), November 12, 2004 (536 wds); MARTIN LONGLEY, "FUNKED UP AND GROOVY", Birmingham Post, December 8, 2003 (266 wds); Louise Ramsay, "Quantic Soul Orchestra Komedia Brighton July 25", UK Newsquest Regional Press - This is Brighton and Hove, July 25, 2003 (433 wds); "Quantic Soul Orchestra", Bristol Evening Post, June 12, 2003 (430 wds); Beth Pearson, "It all went apricot-shaped; Will Holland's life plan ended in early failure, but he has had more than enough success since then to make up for it, reports Beth Pearson", The Herald (Glasgow), December 6, 2002 (804 wds). QSO also gets 240,000 ghits. I think keeping all content about QSO in the Will Holland article makes most sense, because he's had several projects, and it pretty much looks like QSO just is him. Mangostar (talk) 03:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Merge QSO album articles Did not find much coverage for individual albums when searching for QSO--don't think the sourcing is there. Mangostar (talk) 03:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete Hint Could not find adequate independent sourcing in Lexis. Mangostar (talk) 03:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep Tru Thoughts Haven't thoroughly investigated this one, but with so many ghits and at least two notable artists signed to them (Will Holland/QSO and Alice Russell) they are surely notable. Mangostar (talk) 03:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep Tru Thoughts - This is a well established, though independent electronic and dance music label, who have released 60+ albums and over 100 singles over the last 9 years. I've added some more of their notable artists, and will look to add more (independent) info and refs. Gram123 (talk) 15:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep. Possible Merge Will Holland & Quantic Soul Orchestra - Though Holland's name will be less recognisable to people than his musician / band names (Quantic, Quantic Soul Orchestra and The Limp Twins), it makes sense to merge the pseudonym articles into one article under his real name, and make the others redirects. Most of the info appears to be under Will Holland already. I understand the possible deletion of the album articles, as they aren't much more than stubs and they probably didn't achieve significant chart positions. Gram123 (talk) 15:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Strong Keep. Keep every article, as Quantic and The Quantic Soul Orchestra are different projects. You won't merge Fatboy Slim and Freakpower, would you? And Tru Thoughts is separate from both, being a record label. As for notability, Tru Thoughts is the most notable deep funk/nu funk record label in the whole world. It's just like nomitating Anticon. Additionally, Will Holland's projects are also notable deep funk act of 2000's, though not to the degree of bands like The Poets of Rhythm. I'm shocked with this nomination. And with such aproach (nominating for deletion something you are not an expert in) as well. Netrat_msk (talk) 01:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Further to Netrat_msk's final point, I've looked through the music articles the nominator (User:TenPoundHammer) has created (specifically those listed User:TenPoundHammer/Pages I created#Music pages I created) and I've got to say I don't recognise any of those artists or albums at all. Selecting one at random (Marty Raybon), I took a look at the article and frankly, from an outsider's pov, it appears that there is little difference between the notability, quality of article, and standard of external sources for that artist, versus the ones nominated here. I wouldn't dream of being presumptious enough to nominate Marty Raybon for deletion (or any of those other articles TenPoundHammer has created), as it is absolutely beyond my area of knowledge or expertise. If a music label / artist / album doesn't appear to have good sources, shouldn't they be marked with something like a {{refimprove}} or {{primarysources}} template, rather than automatically deciding to nominate them for afd? Gram123 (talk) 10:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The result was No consensus cuz truth be told, we don't even know if this is the same guy or not. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:22, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jazzy B

There are a few passing mentions of a Jazzy B on Google News, but not this Jazzy B. It doesn't appear that this Jazzy B meets either WP:BIO or WP:MUSIC as I can find zero in the way of reliable third party coverage here. coccyx bloccyx_(toccyx) 16:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Delete per the rationale I've provided as nominator. coccyx bloccyx_(toccyx) 16:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Weak Keep the article asserts notability (I think, with the hit album reference) but, it needs 3rd party reliable sources for verifiability. If the hit album doesn't assert notability please consider the keep above to be changed to a delete as I'm away from any sort of computer for the next several days. Jasynnash2 (talk) 16:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. —Klausness (talk) 17:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. —Klausness (talk) 17:53, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment. The subject should not be confused with Jazzie B, the music producer and founder of Soul II Soul. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Delete notability is asserted but not in a proven way (not sourced or verifiable) ultimately after this is deleted it should be redirected to the "Jazzie B" webpage. JBsupreme (talk) 03:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Keep. Google news archives yield a fair number of hits, including articles from the New York Times and Times of India, both of which I've added as external links. There's more that could be added, but these seemed to be from the two most reliable sources, and significant coverage in two reliable sources is enough to keep the article. Klausness (talk) 20:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Note: IP address 67.82.28.83 just left the following note on the talk page: "Dont delete this page. He is a legitimate artist with some big hits. However, the article needs to be expanted". Klausness (talk) 11:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Keep, secondary coverage by the NYT and Times of India means that this person meets WP:BIO. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 03:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC).

The result was Delete. WP:NOT#DIR. An overarching article might be possible, but these articles are just directory listings of shows. Black Kite 16:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] European Festivals 2003

This article is not notable. This is merely a listing of appearances by a band in Europe in 2003, put under an arbitrary name. I wouldn't say the same about Sick of the Studio '07 for example. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 14:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages because they have similar problems (ie arbitrary names; notability):

Delete there's no context outside of the infoboxes that even tell you what the table represents. I don't think it's a good re-direct because the name is vague but at best a merge to Metallica tours along with the other tours that don't establish notability (including the one referenced above, which at least has content). _{TravellingCari}^{the Busy Bee} 18:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

While my original delete stands, I think the others can be merged and re-directed to Metallica tours as they might be likely search terms. As of now, they have no context apart from infoboxes and are nothing more than tables. I think one article with a lead that explains metallca tours covers all adequately. _{TravellingCari}^{the Busy Bee} 15:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 17:29, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Singu larity 05:42, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge - all the minor Metalica tours can be merged together, with section redirects. Few have enough notability themselves (maybe a couple have enough info to remain seperate), but all together might be a useful articleYobmod (talk) 11:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Music Proposed deletions

[edit] Bands and musicians

[edit] Brian Boru Irish Pipe Band

non notable, uncited band article. SGGH ^speak! 18:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Neil Reilly

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Neil Reilly

Articles for deletion/Neil Reilly (2nd nomination)

Not notable. No sources at all, no relevant Google hits, unable to verify awards claimed. Contested speedy. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 03:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: The Neil Reilly in this AfD has no apparent connection to that in the first one. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 03:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete student conductor. Ohconfucius (talk) 10:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, no sources, non-notable, unverifiable. Huon (talk) 12:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy delete as biography w/ no assertion of notability tgies (talk) 12:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bva MC

Non notable musician, used myspace as a reference for notability, none of his associates are notable enough for articles, those that are bluelinked refer to articles that only continentally have the same article name, "a track in the pipeline" fails WP:CRYSTAL. No information on the reception or success of this one 2003 "album" SGGH ^speak! 09:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Strong delete WP is not myspace. Aside from dropping one notable name, has no other assertion of notability. Ohconfucius (talk) 10:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, fails WP:MUSIC, WP:RS. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 12:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Dartnall

"Members of notable bands are not given individual articles unless they have demonstrated notability for activity independent of the band", which Henry Dartnall has not. Recommend blanking and redirecting to the Young Knives page. Ironho lds 12:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Redirect, not individualy notable per WP:MUSIC, redirect to Young Knives per nom. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 12:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Redirect - Probably the best way to go. Limetolime ^{Talk to me} ^• ^{look what I did!} 13:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep - meets the criteria at WP:MUSIC --T-rex 14:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

No it doesn't. Band members must have done work outside that particular band; what is he involved in? Ironho lds 14:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Warcloud

Fails to meet notability guidelines of Wikipedia:Notability (music). I could not find coverage of the artist except his own MySpace page. Farside6 (talk) 15:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

~~Comment~~ - Since this artist has so many aliases and has been associated with several bands I think an entry clarifying what he did, with which group and when would be helpful but since searching for the actual name of the person results in 10 ghits ghits, whereas a search for Warcloud "Black Knights" "The Wu-Tang Clan" produces about a thousand. Most of those are blogs and other such fan based. --F=aradayplank (talk) 15:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete - re-read article and after some time to think about it there isn't enough there to satisfy notability. Just lists. If references were added, I could see a Keep but as is, delete --Faradayplank (talk) 09:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, I can find nothing of substance apart from this [2] that would come close to WP:RS. Nada on the record label which would have aloud him to squeeze in on WP:MUSIC#C5. Nothing to establish notability, delete. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 02:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Atomic Mass band

Article is about the former line-up of Def Leppard. Despite being quite a notable band, I don't see any notability on their former line-up. Actually, I've been trying to redirect this page to Def Leppard, just as it had been done in Atomic Mass (band), but the creator of the page and some other editors keep undoing it. I could redirect it again myself, but an AfD debate may prove useful in convincing them. There's no need to delete the article, a redirect is perfectly suitable for this situation, and all content featured on this page could be easily taken to Def Leppard's article. Victor Lopes (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Redirect. fails notability per WP:MUSIC. Core bits of this article are already in the main Def Lep one. Redirect to Def Lep 1977–1979. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 23:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Redirect Already mostly merged anyway, does not have any reasonable claim of notability on it's own, only source is official Def Leppard fansite, who apparently also felt it did not need it's own entry. I would add that while I understand the nom's frustration, requests for comment are another way to get outside opinions to form consenseus on issues not directly related to AfD. Beeblbrox (talk) 01:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chad Perrone

This appears to be a non-notable singer/songwriter. Ecoleetage (talk) 04:07, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Redirect to Averi. At this point in his career, his only real claim to notability appears to be his association with that band. I couldn't find any substantive sources discussing his solo career.--Kubigula (talk) 04:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Perrone did start with Averi, a successful regional band, but he has now launched a successful solo career, starting with his signing with Chrysalis Publishing, one of the largest publishing firms in the world (http://www.us.chrysalismusic.co.uk/core/roster.cfm?scope=102829&is_writer=1) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Missingmat (talk • contribs) 05:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

- comment Notability is not contagious; you can't "catch" it by being associated with a notable firm or person. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete - no evidence of notability. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite 23:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

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delete not notable. Happydazer (talk) 14:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jasmina Mukaetova

Not notable; searches only seem to give blog/youtube-style links Chzz ► 03:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete non-notable. ~~Additionally I'm am I correct in thinking that the above keep was placed here by accident?~~ Jasynnash2 (talk) 10:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment if she truly conducted a world tour, she passes WP:MUSIC. Does anyone speak Macedonian? I assume that's why the google fails? Wily D 14:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

This Blog claims she's given a concert in Switzerland, for instance. Maybe a Macedonian spelling or something is the culprit here? Wily D 14:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Јасмина Мукаетова seems to be the Macedonian spelling, but it doesn't seem to help much. Wily D 14:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep jasmina mukaetova is well known in the Republic of Macedonia, throughout the Macedonian Diaspora and other Balkan states Cukiger (talk) 02:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite 23:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

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Comment Is there a policy about cross-language notabily? This person may be notable in one language or country, but I can't see any notablity in English. --Thetrick (talk) 05:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment. The policy is that if something is notable anywhere or in any language it is notable for English Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia about the whole world which is written in English, not an encyclopedia only about subjects in English speaking countries. Phil Bridger (talk) 10:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep For now, at least, until our Macedonian friends can verify notability. --Ecoleetage (talk) 07:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep. Gets plenty of coverage in the Macedonian media, e.g. [3] [4] [5]. I've put some of those sources in the article to confirm international touring. Phil Bridger (talk) 10:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Troy Bieser

No reliable sources, only sources are MySpace and/or trivial in nature. Only real claim to notability is that he co-wrote "Baby Girl" for Sugarland. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 21:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

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Delete per lack of enough WP:N Artene50 (talk) 00:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I found an article in the Intelligencer Journal which, although it is purportedly about the band Star Radio (Bieser's first band), actually contained a fair bit of biographical info about Bieser, so I have added that to the article. That, along with the significant mentions in Creative Loafing, and the songwriting nomination, adds up to enough notability for a keep in my view. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete. The few micro-claims to notability don't add to WP:BIO "significant coverage" requirement. --brew crewer (yada, yada) 15:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tõnu Trubetsky

This is the real name of an extremely prolific spammer User:Bloomfield. This article was written by him and his many socks (note that earlier history of the article is at Tony Blackplait and that page did not survive a deletion attempt at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tony Blackplait).

I have been trying to clean up Bloomfield's mess for a very long time. He posted rambling genealogical articles about early Lithuanian dukes. See, for example, this version before I cleaned up the article. Note how it corresponds with self-posted genealogy at his band's page at http://www.dcc.ttu.ee/Bands/english/get.asp?ident=909 (which dates from 1996).

His real life identity does not show any signs of notability. The article has many interwikis - all by him (possibly except lb:Tony Blackplait - translated from English?). Any external links are probably written by him. As I said, he's very prolific. He lists many books, films, bands, etc. but none of them check out. At first glance it looks ok (as it had three years to root in), but after more careful investigation it does not hold water. Renata (talk) 14:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I also list related articles:

Father Jan Trubecki (reposted after deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jan Trubecki)
Grandfather Władzimir Wałoc Trubetsky
Great-grandfather Paweł Trubecki
And other ancestors: Nester Trubecki, Grigory Troubetzkoy, Piotr Nikolaievich Troubetzkoy, Nikolay Troubetzkoy (others need checking)
Band & related: Vennaskond, Sue Catwoman (The Flowers of Romance CDEP), Nick Rock'n'Roll & Trite Dushi, Pirates of Destiny, I Love America, Millennium (Vennaskond film)‎, Paris (The Flowers of Romance album)‎, Sue Catwoman (The Flowers of Romance album)
- See also: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Flowers Of Romance and speedied The Flowers of Romance (band 2)
Probably there are many more... Renata (talk) 14:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep. Don't knew about the Bloomfield's mess, but Tõnu Trubetsky and Vennaskond are even very notable in Estonia and in some extend in Finland. Some 20 years ago Tõnu Trubesky was one of the most famous representative of alternative culture (lyrics & musics) and around 15 years ago Vennaskond was the most popular band in Estonia with several superhits (Insener Garini hüperpoloid; Pille-Riin). Not so active nowadays and I personally can't understand all this story about using names The Flowers of Romance and Toni Blackplait instead of Vennaskond and Tõnu Trubetsky. However, it was only yesterday, when he claimed in Estonian daily SL Õhtuleht that Estonian punk is degenerated.[6] And you find more hits from Google http://www.google.ee/search?as_q=vennaskond&hl=et&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=ogM&num=10&btnG=Google+otsing&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=lang_en&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights= 90.190.192.206 (talk) 15:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC) — 90.190.192.206 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Delete all per nom BanRay 19:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep Tõnu Trubetsky, I've just asked my younger brother, who is more familiar with Estonian culture and he says Trubetsky is indeed a rather notable personality over here (even gave me a book written by him), so I guess we can keep that one, as for the rest - I'm not sure, this is certainly not my area of expertise. BanRay 21:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy Keep Tõnu Trubetsky; keep Vennaskond or merge with Tõnu Trubetsky. The conflict of interest is, indeed, annoying, and I've had to intermittently deal with it for more than three years (see here). The COI is a separate issue, but I would say block or ban the user(s) involved. We've previously been through this notability discussion regarding Trubetsky: See User:Andres' previous AfD comments, which IMHO should have been sufficeint criteria to keep the article. I verified the bibliography section myself (i.e. looking up Trubetsky's books in an online Estonian library catalog, and obtaining the ISBN codes). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Note that Sue Catwoman (The Flowers of Romance album) is notable for (ostensibly) placing on the ~~Estonian~~ Latvian music charts, though this still awaits attribution. Note also that this presents a situation in which an album is notable but the band involved (by previous Wikipedia consensus) is not; suggest that the Estonian band called "Flowers of Romance" be rolled into the Vennaskond or Trubetsky articles. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Strong Delete, per Renata's reasoning. Cleaning up this puppeteer's mess is hard enough without the rest of the community hampering those who do by finding excuses to keep his vanity article. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 05:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Strong keep. Tõnu Trubetsky is a famous personality in Estonia. He is primarily known as the leader and vocalist of the band Vennaskond. He also is known as a partisan of punk and anarchism. He is an outspring of the princely family of Trubetskoy (see also ru:Трубецкие). I can confirm what the anonymous contributor said above: Vennaskond is a famous band in Estonia ("Insener Garini hüperboloid" and "Pille-Riin" are indeed well-known songs in Estonia). The Flowers of Romance is less known. Its story is explained, for example, here (in Estonian). It involves almost the same people as Vennaskond but it is intended to be a different band. I am not sure if there should be a special article here about them. In any case, it is far more known in Estonia as the original band The Flowers of Romance, and the Estonian Wikipedia has an article about them (et:The Flowers of Romance). The Estonian article has probably been written by involved people and needs cleanup (it includes some mystification and glorification). Due to mystification by the members of the band it is difficult to find correct information about the band in English. But the article I referred to above should be trustworthy. The spamlike activities by Tõnu Trubetsky and possibly others should be kept apart from the notability issue. Andres (talk) 07:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Strong Delete The article has been around for 2 1/2 years, yet it has absolutely no independant sources for any of the claims. And most of the claims are not notable - he's been doing redlinked songs for redlinked albums with redlinked people in redlinked bands one of which actually managed a whole 5 gig tour with another redlinked band. He's appeared in redlinked films, most of which are self-made or directed by redlinks. He's written articles for redlinked magazines, as well as relinked books with redlinked co-authors from redlinked publishers. If he's really as important as he's trying to make himself sound then there should be some independant sources - yet his only source is his own Myspace page. Edward321 (talk) 23:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete the whole family - I see no coverage, let alone coverage in reliable sources. Abstain from the bands, however. Some of them have links and references, and since I'm on terra incognita I won't opine on their usefulness.--brew crewer (yada, yada) 05:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Strong keep. Trubetsky not only vocalist. He is productive writer also [7]. His position in Estonian culture environment is very meaningful. Singer, writer, poet, actor, director... And delete??--HendrixEesti (talk) 07:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Strong keep. for estonian music he is maybe more important than John Lydon for punk music at all -- Ahsoous (talk) 09:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Strong keep. Tõnu Trubetski is a legendary punk-musician in Estonia. He is less known outside Estonia, because the lyrics of his songs are mostly written in Estonian. The article needs just a clean-up. --Metsavend (talk) 13:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 18:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Estonia-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 18:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep Vennaskond (and a weak keep or merge for Tõnu Trubetsky), neutral for now on the rest. I've never heard of this band myself before, but searching Google for vennaskond punk (in Estonian, Finnish and English) turns up enough seemingly independent sources asserting notability (e.g. [8], [9], [10] and [11]) that I'm willing to believe them. (And by the way, The Flowers of Romance (Estonian band) should probably be a redirect to Vennaskond, since they appear to be essentially the same band under different names.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 18:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Matt Montgomery

The subject is not independently notable (notability is not contagious) and no reliable sources. Perhaps merge with Rob Zombie. Selket ^Talk 05:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

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Merge/Redirect to Rob Zombie per nom. --brew crewer (yada, yada) 17:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Williams (Singer/songwriter/pianist)

I declined a speedy tag, but I don't believe this subject meets notability criteria; namely, WP:MUSIC or WP:BAND. Tan | 39 18:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Could you confirm whether Steve's collaboration with Beth Rowley, currently a very significant artist, and his work with Jamelia meet the criteria for notability? And if not, why not? Could you give some indication of what would make him "significant" if this doesn't. Would his broadcast on Radio 2, playing live for the Paul Jones Blues Hour, count if I could get verification?

Many thanks

Did you spend any time researching the policies I posted above? You should read them and use them as a basis for your arguments. Specifically, read this list of criteria and see if this artist meets the criteria. As I read them, he does not. Tan | 39 19:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, point 9. "Has won or placed in a major music competition." Steve won in the UK Song Writing Competition in 1994 with his song "Need Your Love" and his song "Corners" was a finalist in the BBC's Sold on Song competition in 2005, so he has won or been placed twice in two major music competitions.

Incidentally, does being the son of someone famous qualify you as notable?

Point nine might work. Let's get some input from other editors. And as to your last question, definitely not. Tan | 39 19:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Just curious as to why Ben Castle's entry hasn't been deleted. Steve seems to have as much going for him as Ben does, except for not being the son of somebody famous.

I have now found an archived web link to the results of the 2004 UK Song Writing Competition and will add it to the article in a mo.

Weak keep Based on the award and the couple of third-party refs, I think he meets notability, barely. Article BADLY needs cleaned up, lots of OR removed, and a better title (something shorter than "(Singer/songwriter/pianist)". Also a question; I was going to suggest the title Steve Williams (musician), but I see that's linked by Power Quest. Is this the same person? JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 21:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

No, that is a different Steve Williams. I'd be happy to change the title....just felt the one I went with was a better description of who he is and what he does. Will also clean up the article.....was taking a lead from other similar articles there.

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 00:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep. Meets WP:MUSIC. IMHO, there is more references for this Steve to be independently notable than the Steve from Power Quest. Give this one a quick tidy up and move the lot to Steve Williams (musician). Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Splendid, thanks. Would prefer to keep the singer/songwriter title though if possible.....it's a more accurate reflection of what he does, especially in light of his songwriting competition achievements being the basis for his inclusion.

Move To Steve Williams (songwriter) as that seems to be what he is notable for. Jasynnash2 (talk) 11:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lil Majer

This article was deleted back in March with a PROD tag on it for failure to prove notability. There are no releases, no tours, and no reliable sources. The article got recreated today with the PROD tag still on it, meaning it was copied from somewhere with the tag attached. Besides being a GFDL violation since the previous edit history hasn't been restored, and therefore a copyvio, there is still no proof of notability. There are only 15 Google hits, none of them reliable. Corvus cornix_talk 23:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 00:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
delete no label, no hits, no sales, not notable, not verified, all original research, no potential, possible future success is a crystal argument, so delete delete delete not notableMyheartinchile (talk) 00:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment: The subject of the article claims to be starting a line of clothing called Cartune, which is the same name as that of the article's creating editor. It's also part of the subject's website. Corvus cornix_talk 02:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete An unnotable group. Only sources are to its web site and a myspace site. Hardly notable as of June 2008. Artene50 (talk) 04:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete - no notability claimed, no sources found --T-rex 19:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two Five

Not notable enough to have an article. Shadyaftrmathgunit (talk) 16:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete per WP:MUSIC. All the usual problems: unsigned, no albums yet, etc. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, article fails to establish notability as per WP:MUSIC & WP:NOTINHERITED. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete Fails WP:N with no independent sources. Artene50 (talk) 04:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] N-Tyce

Fails WP:MUSIC. Not notable as an individual artist, redirect to Deadly Venoms. Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete She is not a notable rapper. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 14:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Speedy redirect to Deadly Venoms. Not notable on her own, but no reason to delete outright. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 15:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Malinaccier (talk) 02:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Redirect to Deadly Venoms. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 02:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
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Comment – I was able to find a review of one of her singles in Billboard. If there are more of these then I might argue keep rather than redirect: Flick, Larry. "Single reviews – Sure Ya Right, a single by N-Tyce", Billboard, New York: Apr 15, 1995. Vol. 107, Issue 15; p. 49 Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 15:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Works (Band)

non notable band, prod removed because "has references that show notability". Only reference that works is for an announcement of a gig in a major newspaper, trivial coverage. Duffbeerforme (talk) 06:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete, article fails to establish notability as per WP:MUSIC & WP:RS. One reference needs a password for crying out loud. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 07:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete The sources are insufficient to meet WP:MUSIC. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 16:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] Alice Russell (singer)

fails WP:MUSIC because the artist does not have any charting music, and the indie label upon which notability might rest relies on her and only two other artists for its notability (they cannot support each other for notability!) - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 15:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete as does not comply with WP:V (among others). Myspace.com and Youtube.com videos are not trusted references. If she were of any signficance to warrant an article, google would have turn up more reliable sources that weren't 'planted'. I've actually put this up for a speedy delete earlier today, but now I think AfD is more appropriate. Amor amor (talk) 23:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, fails WP:MUSIC, WP:RS, & WP:V. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Strong keep Very surprised to see this nominated when scrolling through the AfD list... I have her albums on my computer, so was spurred to do a bit of a hunt for references. Per the Sydney Morning Herald, she has done at least three tours of Australia, satisfying WP:MUSIC. I'm sure she's toured in the US too, because I remember being disappointed I was out of town when the concert near me was. :) Other reliable or semi-reliable news coverage: [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17] (coverage of a European tour). Mangostar (talk) 02:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

And more from Lexis:

The New Zealand Herald, April 15, 2007 Sunday, British soul singer returning to play with the Drop
Waikato Times (Hamilton, New Zealand), March 24, 2007 Saturday, Return of the soul sister
The Observer (England), October 22, 2006, The young soul rebels, Elle J Small
The Evening Standard (Palmerston North, New Zealand), March 17, 2007 Saturday, The grand manor, WHITE Tina
South China Morning Post, September 17, 2006 Sunday, Alice Russell, Mathew Scott
The Scotsman, September 15, 2006, Friday, Alice Russell, Fiona Shepherd
The Press (Christchurch, New Zealand), January 14, 2006 Saturday, sound check; ALICE RUSSELL, ANDERSON Vicki
The Age (Melbourne, Australia), November 18, 2005 Friday, Expression marks; MUSIC, ANDREW DREVER

And so on... Mangostar (talk) 02:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep - multiple independent reliable sources as well as touring reported through the Sydney Herald meets WP:MUSIC criteria 1, and 4 for musicians. -- Whpq (talk) 16:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
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Keep Sad so see so many delete votes predicated upon bad research. Chubbles (talk) 16:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
More reliable and non-trivial sources located with a simple search through Google or Google News: The Argus The Guardian. It's a keep based on WP:N or WP:MUSIC criterion #1. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Audience of One

nn high school band of a current indie musician (Anthony Green). The article freely admits the band went nowhere, and the notability policy states that notability is not inherited - Green is notable as part of and because of his band Circa Survive (and that's questionable, IMO, but not up for debate here), not as a solo artist past or present. Unsourced article, prod removed on this and the album by an IP as its only two edits. MSJapan (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I am also nominating the album article as an NN album of a NN band.

Delete both. High school band, garage band for all intents. what more is there to say? --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 18:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete both Yea, garage bands don't pass WP:BAND. ArcAngel (talk) (Review) 20:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
~~Speedy~~ delete A7 Not notable. Malinaccier (talk) 22:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment: There's a very complicated set of interrelated articles associated with Anthony Green (musician). Check out all of the related links to verify notability. Corvus cornix_talk 22:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Malinaccier (talk) 23:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete both per WP:MUSIC. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete Article appears to be a promotion of a band that has either 'broken up' or is on hiatus. Not notable. Artene50 (talk) 09:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
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Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 13:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete - not notable. Merge a line or two into Anthony Green (musician) as it's worth a mention as part of his career. Also Delete their album I Remember When This All Meant Something --T-rex 19:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3OH!3

No assertion of notability per BAND. The band is playing the Warped Tour, but there are at least 85 bands on the official list, so I don't feel that it is a strong enough assertion of notability, being that they are not a headliner. Being on Warped is not an automatic N, either, as quite a few bands on the comps (since 1998) have no articles, and the total band list is much larger than the comp album list. This band has opened for artists, which is no big deal for a band - local bands open shows all the time, and I don't know that the headliner has anything to do with that process as opposed to the venue booker. Most tellingly, all their listed shows are Denver-area, which is where they are from, meaning that they are a local band that has not toured outside of their city. Prod was removed by a Denver-area IP who has never edited anything save that article, which means there may be a COI issue here as well. MSJapan (talk) 17:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete. Indy band, signed to an indy label that seems equally insignificant (in fact, it's up for PROD right now). Hopefully they get their name out there, but until notability is established, nothing for here. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- Changing vote to weak keep per revisions by MSJapan. Good luck breaking out of Denver, gentlemen. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 15:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
"Save". Acts are Colorado based not Denver based, which is less local than the original argument suggests. Myspace Page has close to 1.5 million hits, which indicates some renown. Music Style is Unique, possibly original creation. In addition to that, its sound provideds pride to residents of Colorado. Its a unique thing for the state, and everyone loves them. This page has been created (then deleted) multiple times by multiple parties, eventually it will have to stay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.138.126.110 (talk) 20:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Save. This is one of the most notable bands in Colorado. Their popularity and relevance is undeniable. They have sold out show after show across the country. Conversely to what Japan says, they are headlining a portion of the Warped Tour as well. And though other bands on the Warped Tour play only a select few dates (ie: 1 to 10 dates), 3OH!3 is actually on the entire tour. The significance of being on the Warped Tour CD is important too as only the most relevant and large bands are on the CD thanks to tour founder Kevin Lyman. Also, KTCL in Denver has a long history of discovering such bands as the Flobots and The Fray and 3OH!3 is just the next band in line. I urge this page to remain here and it has to remain eventually. 3OH!3 is too significant for this band not to have their own page. Ajkaneobrien (talk) 23:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC) — Ajkaneobrien (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- You'll pretty much need to demonstrate this. Need reliable sources that are verifiable that demonstrate notability. Saying how important they are, frankly, isn't sufficient. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 01:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete, article fails to establish notability as per WP:MUSIC, WP:RS. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:35, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Save. All the arguments brought up are contradictary by nature. You state that just being a member of the Warped Tour does not represent noteriety, however, this is a tour that has been around for years, and headlining it has not only just jumpstarted many bands carreers, but in some cases (Blink 182) has defined them. If you say that is not a relevent tour and does not warrent a page, then by the same token many bands that have been on the Warped Tour still have a Wikipedia page even though in your eyes they do not deserve it. It is truely a rediculous notion that Headlining an event with so much national prestige such as the Warped Tour is not reason enough for a Wikipedia page. To emphasis what AJKANEobrien said, KTCL, the radio station in Colorado that regularly plays 3 oh! 3 can be credited with boosting the carreers of the Flobots, who recently are on tour and have made television apperances and the National hit, the Fray. With that track record, and a headlining spot on the Warped Tour, it is likely that 3 OH! 3 will recieve great nation attention in the coming months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.227.158 (talk) 02:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- ...and that's crystalballery, frankly. Like I said above, you need to prove notability right now - not possible notability in the future. Also see WP:MUSIC. You will follow these guidelines if you want the article. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 17:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment - I for one have no prejudice to recreation if this band in the future meets WP:MUSIC at that time. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 17:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
But it is not crystal ballery that this band is in fact a headliner on ALL of the the nationally recognized and highly attended Warped Tour stops. Your argument against the tour is that they have some bands be filler for some of the shows, however, this band is playing every stop nationwide. That recognition by the commite who puts the Warped Tour together should be enough noteriety by itself that people who know music and what people like believe that this band has enough staying power and talent to be broadcast on the national stage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.227.158 (talk) 18:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- OK. Provide citations, or it didn't happen. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 18:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
http://www.warpedtour.com/warpedtour/bands.asp. Directly to the right, it states that 3OH!3 is featured on the whole tour. The creators of this tour want to put the best product out there, and making 3OH!3 a full time member is evidence of their noteriety. Boom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.227.158 (talk) 19:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- Is that the only citation? Warped tour is great, but as is explained in the nomination, it's one of 86 bands. As such, that alone is not going to be enough. You have yet to read WP:MUSIC - read this and then provide more citations. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 19:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Save. I find it laughable that with 10 million articles in 253 languages, "Dennis the Tiger" is questioning a page about a band as notable as 3OH!3. Just because Dennis does not know of the band does not make them any less significant. Oh, and the band does match the Lord (our God) Wikipedia's criteria for notability.Ajkaneobrien (talk) 19:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)— Ajkaneobrien (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- OK. One, you already placed a "save" above. Two, this is not a vote, this is a discussion to reach a consensus. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 20:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC) (who forgot to sign last time...)
  - OK. It looks like the consensus has been made. Save. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.224.25 (talk)
    - You're new, aren't you? =) We let administrators make the decisions as to when consensus has been reached. Have a nice day. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 20:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Save.They were cited by Colorado’s Westward as the best of in Colorado in there genre in 2007. http://bestof.westword.com/bestof/award.php?award=377917. This proves rule 7 that it has become the most prominent representative of a city, beating out national bands such as the Flobots. In addition to the Warped tour, where they are one of 40 bands to achieve the level of performing every show on a national concert tour, they are headlining the Pemerton Festival in British Columbia and the Bamboozle left festival in California. Both the warped tour and the aforementioned festivals represent rule 4. In addition to that, their record label, though it is young, has national acts on it and has notoriety in its own right for being a sub-company of Atlantic Records, thus taking care of rule #5 with there album coming out on that label in the next month. As for media coverage, if you Google their name, numerous outside sites in the hip hop, punk rock, and news outlet articles about the band pop up, thus meeting the criteria for rule #1. And finally, in addition to having 1.5 million hits on their myspace page, their hit music video has 233,613 views on youtube. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.227.158 (talk) 19:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC) — 24.9.227.158 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- You make some great points here. Rule 7 is definitely proven as 3OH!3 has become representative of the cities of Boulder, Denver, and of Colorado. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.224.25 (talk) 20:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 13:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment I did a google news search and found this, then found this too. Their Allmusic page doesn't give much away though. sparkl_!sm ^hey! 14:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- That might change my mind, Sparklism. I can't get to the link on the Syntax from work (firewall blockage, dunno why), but the camera may or may not be questionable as it appears to be a local news story. IMO it brings it to "borderline". I'll check it later this evening or work with other consensus on this. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 17:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep ~~with revision~~ - In its current form the article is pretty weak and not NPOV, as seen with the claim that they are "headlining" Warped Tour. They most definitely are not. Still, I came to this article because I was curious about the band due to the fact that they are playing at Warped Tour. The links provided by Sparklism, especially the first one, seem to be enough to assert notability along with their touring on Warped Tour. TecmoBo (talk) 15:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Alright I've revised the article so all the statements are sourced and the POV is fixed. I used Sparklism's first link and some others I found that were legitimate. So as I stated above, my vote is to keep in its revised form. TecmoBo (talk) 19:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment - It certainly reads, better, but I don't know that it asserts any sort of notability. Assuming this album comes out and charts, that might change things, but if the label signing is a fundamental part of their notability (which is about the only thing I can see that would) WP:CRYSTAL would seem to apply until the album release. MSJapan (talk) 20:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Save 3oh!3 is huge in both Boulder and Denver which satisfies rule #7. Also they have have been in rotation of channel 93.3 so that satisfies rule #11. And on top of that headlining Warped Tour and opening for Snoop Dogg and Sum 41. Just Because some of you haven't heard of a band doesn't give you the right to delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.81.89 (talk) 21:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- OK, fine, they're huge in Boulder. WP:LOCAL. That said, articles or it didn't happen. The two above are probably viable, I'm still yet to review the other one. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 22:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment - I agree somewhat with MSJapan that their notability isn't impressive, but the fact that they are on the official Warped Tour 2008 Tour Compilation disc doesn't help their notability? The bands on their aren't randomly thrown together; they are nearly all well-known. Even if 3Oh!3 isn't in the same class as those bands, doesn't been chosen to be on the compilation in the first place show some notability? TecmoBo (talk) 00:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment - Normally I would agree, but there's 50 bands at one track apiece, so I think it diminishes the weight of the comp substantially. A similar case might be Guitar Hero; there are indie bands on there who don't have articles, because they're simply not notable outside of having a track on the game(s) in the bonus section, and they aren't advertised on the packaging. MSJapan (talk) 00:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Somastate

Previously speedied, I've decided to give this one a chance at AFD, just in case... A band article with no independant sourcing, and IMHO no real indication given of notability. TexasAndroid (talk) 18:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy delete Seems to be pure advert. Thetrick (talk) 19:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete There is nothing in the article to support notability. ArcAngel (talk) (Review) 20:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Speedy delete - No notable album release, no hit singles, no record deal. TN‑X-Man 21:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment by Tnxman307 is irreverent and incorrect. They have both toured with reputable bands and have their CD available through reputable sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.158.143.28 (talk) 01:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 13:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plastic Little (rap group)

This group fails WP:MUSIC; judging by All Music Guide, they have released only one full-length album (She's Mature) on what seems to be a small indy label. But the talk page suggests that things are controversial here. B. Wolterding (talk) 21:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete - According to the talk page, there may be some reliable sources out there for this group. However, I could not find them, and as such, group does not meet WP:BAND. TN‑X-Man 21:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete as the group fails WP:MUSIC as established by the nominator. JBsupreme (talk) 10:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 13:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete - not notable --T-rex 19:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blatz (band)

No reliable sources to establish notability or verifiability. Fails WP:MUSIC. Nobody of Consequence (talk) 21:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 13:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] David Yonan

IMHO this conflicts with the guidelines in WP:Autobiography, and it is written like an ad. See rev history and name of first author. But since it asserts notability, consensus must be reached. Shoombooly (talk) 01:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete It's written like an ad, indeed. I suspect it's a copy-and-paste from somewhere else. It is somewhat notable, though, so maybe with some cleaning up and referencing it would be worth keeping. Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 01:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete Notablity asserted but not proven. One new reference shows existence but not notability. Thetrick (talk) 01:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment. The reviews in reliable sources (embedded in the article rather than listed under the references heading) such as Tagesspiegel Berlin are probably enough to demonstrate notability, but since the search function at http://www.tagesspiegel.de/suche/ only covers articles since 1996, I can't verify the 1988 review of his performance. I found two references to him at the Google News archive and none at various Chicago-area news sites such as Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun-Times or PioneerLocal.com. I would expect to see more coverage of a professional concert violinist, but there may be a good reason for the relatively small number of references. --Eastmain (talk) 01:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —Eastmain (talk) 01:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete Not yet notable. If he's as good as he says he is, he will yet deserve an article, written by another editor. As it stands, it seems a strong case of self-promotion via a single-purpose account. (By the way, I hope you don't mind that I fixed your link to WP:AUTO, Shoombooly.)--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 17:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Of course I don't mind, as long as this means you will from now on fix ALL my mistakes for me? :P Shoombooly (talk) 18:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bucium, folk rock band

I declined this speedy because it asserts vague notability (the talk page link for example), and therefore it can't be deleted via CSD. However the band does not appear to be notable, so I leave it up to the community. PeterSymonds (talk) 14:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —Captain-tucker (talk) 15:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
DELETE, Band does fails WP:MUSIC, only one released album which fails WP:MUSIC#C5 and no other evidence provided or could be obtained through a quick google search. Note that the speedy delete was placed one minute after the article was created and the AfD placed 18 minutes later. The editor should be given some time to provide evidence of notability so as to not give the impression of WP:BITE. I placed a note on the editors talk page pointing to WP:MUSIC and others.... --Captain-tucker (talk) 15:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment - rather triggy happy nomination, 19mins after creation. Would like to hear from the author, plus give them a chance to expand the article before !voting. Paulbrock (talk) 17:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Delete: trigger happy or not, it fails WP:MUSIC. 19 minutes is not too fast for a speedy deletion nomination, why should this be different? -- Roleplayer (talk) 20:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

As per Captain-tucker, editor should be given some chance to provide evidence of notability. It would be nice if all articles were drafted first, fully referenced and checked, then moved to article space but that's not what happens, and speedying and/or AFDing before an editor has had adequate chance to finish what they were doing or respond to concerns is just going to put people off WP. Paulbrock (talk) 03:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete, article fails to establish notability as per WP:MUSIC. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 00:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Why don`t you wait for a few months and see if the notability increases, they will get reviews in the main sites in the next months, why hurry so much? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.76.131.76 (talk) 08:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Because you yourself admit in that statement that there is a chance that their notability may not increase. The best way to go about this is if their notability has increased after a few months and you can prove that using verifiable sources, then come back and start again. --

Roleplayer (talk) 12:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC) article 12. on notability Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network. we`ve been 4 times live on national television with one hour and two hours shows...as a proof I should upload that on youtube and post the link? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.76.131.76 (talk) 10:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Appeared as in played a song, or appeared as in had an half-hour long show DEDICATED to them? I think the latter is what the WP:MUSIC criteria is getting at. Paulbrock (talk) 12:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Appeared as in playing 1 hour live and in talking one hour with the host - 2 times, and playing 1 hour another 2 times. Yesterday we did an unplugged show at the national radio for another hour. we really do play... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.76.131.76 (talk) 12:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete - fails WP:MUSIC, and also COI/self-promotion, as admitted at Talk:Bucium, folk rock band. Biruitorul ^Talk 03:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Another review on obliveon.de -

http://www.obliveon.de/pn-om/modules.php?op=modload&name=tplcdimport&file=index&req=showcontent&id=11735&cfletter=B

Keep assuming 82.76.131.76 is correct - this would clearly pass WP:MUSIC. Names of shows and stations would be great, along with any links! Paulbrock (talk) 08:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

the televisions are tvr1, tvr2, tvr cultural, tvrm. www.tvr.ro —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.76.131.76 (talk) 15:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

- Then again, do you really want User:Buciumro to write an article on Bucium? WP:COI and all that... Biruitorul ^Talk 19:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

dear biruitorul, what conflict of interests do you see in a band writing the article based only on facts that were published before, by other newspapers, magazines, websites? don`t you think that the band knows itself better than a volunteer editor? you would be right only if what the article says it`s a lie, in which case please tell us what do you think the lie is. The information can be verified, there are photos of newspapers and magazines in which we appeared that can prove what we said. I really take it as a bite of the newcomers...i don`t understand if I bring proofs of the WP:MUSIC - paragraph 1 and paragraph 12 why that isn`t enough? it`s kinda strange... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.228.205 (talk) 12:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, to begin with, see WP:RS - you have failed to provide any reliable sources for what you have written, and these are required in order to establish notability. Biruitorul ^Talk 16:51, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Mercy Dolls

fails WP:MUSIC. awards are minor and for the clips creator, only one ep, claims of controversy are unsourced. Duffbeerforme (talk) 12:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- the wub "?!" 14:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment My google search turned up 82 hits for this music group. Most are from youtube and blog sites here I'm leaning toward a weak keep at present since it doesn't look like spam. Artene50 (talk) 00:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The result was Keep. Extremely borderline as regards WP:MUSIC, though four releases on Matinee are reasonable, but it's the reviews that tip it - Pitchfork and Popmatters are not trivial. Black Kite 23:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Math and Physics Club

Non-notable band, doesn't meet the requirements of WP:BAND. I put a speedy tag on the article, the article's creator put on a hangon tag, and therefore another editor made the incorrect assumption that a contested speedy requires an AfD. But since the third editor removed the speedy tag, we have to come here. Corvus cornix_talk 19:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete Per nom. All significant contributions by a single deleted editor or anon with no other contribs. Related articles (albums, EPs) should easily pass speedy if this goes through.J293339 (talk) 19:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete - Non-notable band, only releases on a non-notable label. TN‑X-Man 20:19, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep Labelmates of The Lucksmiths and Tullycraft. --Firefly322 (talk) 00:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- Being label mates of a notable band (and I'm not saying those are) is not a notability criterion under WP:MUSIC. Corvus cornix_talk 06:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- the wub "?!" 14:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Keep Doesn't the Popmatters Best Indy 2006 award and Pitchfork review constitute nontrivial third party coverage? Also, rename to "Math and Physics Club (band)" and set up a disambiguation page. People searching for "math and physics club" are likely not looking for this band. AfD hero (talk) 23:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
- I guess that depends on what you mean by "nontrivial".J293339 (talk) 23:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  - It looks like the pitckfork review [18] is a pretty in-depth coverage, and pitchfork media are very well-respected music critics. Popmatters (also well-respected music critics) provide in-depth coverage in their review here: [19], and award the band "Best of Indie-pop 2006" here: [20]. I think these references pass the nontrivial bar by quite a margin. AfD hero (talk) 04:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
    - In case anybody else is unaware, Pitchfork is a webzine with no editorial policy and a reputation for covering obscure bands because they are obscure. You know that annoying guy at the record store that only listens to music nobody's heard of? That's Pitchfork. As for Popmatters, it's kinda tough to find any reliable info on them. So again, I guess that depends on what you mean by "well-respected". J293339 (talk) 16:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
      - What? Please cite your source. I seem to recall seeing an editors note in one of their reviews I read a couple years ago. Pitchfork is, for better or worse, the most influential review publication - print or web - for indie music. AfD hero (talk) 18:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
        
        You are the one citing Pitchfork as a source. I believe, in this instance, that the burden is on you to show that it is a reliable one, not an influential one. J293339 (talk) 19:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
        
        pitchforkmedia.com is linked to from over 5,000 wikipedia articles, most of these using it as a review source. [21] AfD hero (talk) 22:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Keep. AfD hero's point about Pitchfork Media is a fair one to make, even if influential does not always mean reliable. A quote from Time magazine ("An insider's guide to indie rock", p. 50, April 4 2005): "These days, influence resides in places like Pitchforkmedia.com, a website with the clout of Rolling Stone or Spin." Besides Pitchfork and PopMatters, the band has also had significant mentions in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer and I've added those citations just now. In my view, it's enough for WP:MUSIC criterion #1. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
- While it's good to see a significant source, such as the P.I., that just reports on music rather than trying to influence it, now there's a bit of a depth of coverage issue. Of the articles in question [22] [23], only one is actually about M&PC, and it's under 200 words, a good chunk of which is pretty boilerplate stuff. Last I checked, getting mentioned in the paper didn't warrant an encyclopedia article. None of this coverage, separately or together, meets WP:MUSIC. J293339 (talk) 12:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  - Thanks for the response, and thanks for providing direct links to the articles. I do agree with you that separately any one of these sources would not establish criterion-one WP:MUSIC notability, but, with respect, I disagree with your conclusion that taken together they do not. One contentious point is your interpretation of what the guidelines mean by trivial. WP:N says: Significant coverage is more than trivial but may be less than exclusive. This means that every article does not have to be exclusively about the band. If there are multiple non-trivial mentions, WP:N does allow that as an argument for notability. The "trivial" examples from WP:MUSIC in the guidelines include a concert listing, or booking info. The second P. I. article, I would characterize as a non-trivial mention—some content can extracted from it to add verifiable content to the article. The reviews in influential webzines on their own would not be enough, but considering that one is Pitchfork and the other named MPC's album best indie pop album of the year, that does help in the overall argument to notability. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 23:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
    - The reviews in Pitchfork and Popmatters are highly nontrivial and stand on their own. The seattle PI coverage is icing on the cake. We should not be so narrowminded as to ignore professional publications with enormous readership simply because they are on the web rather than on dead trees. AfD hero (talk) 02:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Melanie Castleman

Non-notable songwriter. Was only nominated for a Grammy; unlike her husband, she didn't win one. No reliable sources to be found. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 04:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 16:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
~~Delete~~ neutral I haven't been able to find anything on her (also tried under her maiden name) - apart from news snippets simply listing the Grammy award nominations for 2007. There's considerably more coverage of her husband, Robert Lee Castleman, although his article currently has no references at all. Not only did one of his songs actually win a Grammy, he's also a solo performer. Voceditenore (talk) 17:50, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment I think there is still a lack of non-trivial coverage of her as a person. Two of the three refs added to the article only mention her as the co-writer of one of the songs sung by the artist who is actually the topic of the article, e.g. Alan Jackson and Alison Krauss. The third does have a comment specifically about the song "Red Rose", but the article is only 174 words long and appears to have a one-liner for each of the nominated songs. Looking at the notability criteria for composers and lyricists, only two could possibly be used for a keep (only one is needed).

Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition.
Has written a song or composition which has won (or in some cases been given a second or other place) in a major music competition not established expressly for newcomers.

Does the Grammy nomination (albeit not a win) satsify 2?

For 1, the relevant criteria for a notable song are:

"Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been performed independently by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable."

The single "Red Rose" was ranked 23 for 4 weeks on Billboard's Hot Country Songs. Does that count? Dunno. I'm changing my vote to neutral for now. Voceditenore (talk) 09:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Just now I've added a few references. I could not find an in-depth profile of her, but there are plenty of non-trivial mentions of her in articles about other people—enough for me to argue weak keep. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:19, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

All of the sources are trivial or pertain only to Like Red on a Rose. I still say delete. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 22:45, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Risking an accusation of being a sexist, I propose merge/redirect to her husband - Robert Lee Castleman.--brew crewer (yada, yada) 02:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

That works too. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 15:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The result was Merge to 1TYM. —Wknight94 (talk) 18:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Oh Jin Hwan

Sorry if I did this wrong but I do not believe this person meets WP:MUSIC primarily not to mention WP:BLP due to the lack of available sources about the subject. It is entirely possible that I'm missing them as I do not know how to search for this person in Korean language. JBsupreme (talk) 09:14, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Merge to 1TYM per WP:MUSIC. I don't speak Korean either, but the band clearly meets WP:MUSIC, having charted in Korea, and having released several albums on mainstream (Korean) labels [24]. He doesn't however, appear to have any other significant activity outside the band. The other band members really should be bundled into this nom as well. Debate (talk) 09:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Malinaccier (talk) 00:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Merge to 1TYM. Esradekan Gibb ^"Talk" 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Insufficient background information--more information needed for complete and accurate entry

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bands & musicians Proposed deletions

To check articles which are being proposed for deletion search by date at Category:Proposed deletion or see the summary of PRODs at User:DumbBOT/ProdSummary. It is common to bands and musicians of all kinds listed.

[edit] Bands and musicians Templates for deletion

Template:Editors band at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 September 13#Editors band (2007 September 13 — 2007-09-21) Deleted (obsoleted by Template:Editors (Band))

Categories: Wikipedia deletion sorting

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music

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[edit] Bands and musicians

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[edit] Bands & musicians Proposed deletions

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