Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/Notability

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This page is a WikiProject essay on notability. It contains the advice and/or opinions of one or more WikiProjects on how they interpret notability within their area of expertise. It is not a policy or guideline, and editors are free to, but not obliged to follow it during XfD's.

WikiProjects are encouraged to write essays on notability that meet or exceed the expectations of notability or the applicable sub-guideline (BIO, ORG, NUMBER, ACADEMICS, and rest of the sub guidelines). Please update the page as needed, or discuss it on the talk page.
This page in a nutshell: This page sets guidelines of notability for all things related to College football and includes common arguments encountered during notability discussions on college football related articles.
For more details on this topic, see Wikipedia:Notability.
For more details on this topic, see Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/Style Guide.
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The WikiProject College Football Notability guidelines aim to promote the creation of high-quality articles about college football teams and related topics.

Wikipedia contains many articles on topics related to college football. These guidelines are not meant to be all-inclusive. As in all things, in order for an article to exist on Wikipedia, there should be reliable sources of information and the article cannot be original research. Articles must be written in a neutral point of view and not overly complimentory or derogatory to the team or topic.

Contents

[edit] Organizations

[edit] Associations

Associations that govern and otherwise help organize college football are notable. This includes their history, present state, and leadership. Generally, these organizations extend their reach beyond college football into other sports (such as Basketball, Track & Field, etc.)

Organization Abbreviation Notes
National Collegiate Athletic Association NCAA Formed in 1906, currently broken into "Divisions" (I-FBS, I-FCS, II, and III)
National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics NAIA Formed in 1937
National Christian College Athletic Association NCCAA Hosts the Victory Bowl, member schools may join either the NAIA or NCAA
Black Coaches & Administrators BCA Formerly known as the "Black Coaches Association"
American Football Coaches Association AFCA Responsible for the Coaches Poll

This is not intended to be a complete list.

[edit] Conferences

College football play is typically broken into conferences, where groups of the same schools will play each other each year. This can develop rivalries and a rich history. Sample conferences include the Big Ten Conference, the Mid-States Football Association, and the Kansas Collegiate Athletic Conference.

Defunct conferences are also notable, such as the Big Eight Conference and the Intercollegiate Athletic Association of the Northwest.

[edit] Teams

Schools that participate in college football and are members of the National Collegiate Athletic Association or the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics are considered notable. Participation may be past, present, and/or planned in the future. Schools may have a team page for their football team, an athletic page for all sports teams, and/or an athletics section of the school's main page in Wikipedia.

Qualification Team (Example) Notes
NCAA Division I FBS Florida Gators football Previously known as "Division I-A"
NCAA Division I FCS Appalachian State Previously known as "Division I-AA"
NCAA Division II Abilene Christian University
NCAA Division III United States Coast Guard Academy
NAIA Malone College Has 287 member institutions for the 2007-08 academic year, may include schools from Canada
defunct college programs University of Texas-Arlington, New York University Violets School must be a current or former member of NCAA or NAIA
closed schools that had programs College of Emporia School must have been a member of the NCAA or NAIA if available. If school closed before NCAA or NAIA were created, the school must have shown regular play against other notable football programs
future college football programs none at present The school must officially announce it will begin a program in either the NAIA or NCAA.

[edit] Common arguments encountered

The following are some of the common arguments against the notability of a team.

Too Small: It's too small of a school to be notable

The Short Answer: This number is big or not big enough
The "size" of the school does not disqualify for notability. Many small colleges are proving grounds for coaches that go on to great fame. When Pop Warner started coaching at Georgia, there were only 126 students enrolled.
If the number of students enrolled in the school would be a deciding factor of notability, then what would be that cutoff point? 5,000 students? Why not 4,999?

It's only an NAIA School: NAIA schools are not notable, only NCAA schools count (or NCAA Division I, etc)

This was heavily discussed early on in the project development. Through the growth of the project, it was discovered that coaches may start at an NAIA School and then work through the ranks to other divisions. Dennis Franchione, Jerry Kill, and Harold Elliott are a few examples. This discovery led to the conclusion that the research value of including the NAIA schools outweighed any borderline notability issues that may arise.
There also have been many significant programs in the NAIA. College of Emporia was one of the first schools to regularly call the forward pass and halfback option.
Other discussions involved the project name: the "Wikipedia:WikiProject College football" -- which includes, by definition, all colleges. The project is not "Wikipedia:WikiProject NCAA Football" or "Wikipedia:WikiProject NCAA Division I FBS football" but encompasses all of college.
Further, the NAIA did not form until 1937, and some schools move from NAIA to NCAA (Emporia State University and Washburn University are examples). So do we consider only the time periods in the NCAA, or the entire history of the program, or only programs currently in the NCAA, or any program that ever was in the NCAA?
NAIA schools will, at times, play an NCAA school. One example is the Victory Bowl, which may place an NAIA team against an NCAA team. It is not uncommon for Division III schools to play an NAIA school currently, and in the history of the NAIA it would be even more common.
Finally, as of 2008 there are "rumblings" in the media of the NAIA and NCAA merging, as reported in The Chronicle of Higher Education.
The consensus of the project is to include NAIA as well as all NCAA division programs in the project.

Program Does Not Exist: The school doesn't have a football program anymore/the school does not exist anymore

The Short Answer: Notability is not temporary.
Many historical achievements in the sport occured at schools that are either now closed or simply discontinued their football program.
  1. Homer Woodson Hargiss is one of the early developers of the Forward Pass and Halfback option play--while coaching at the College of Emporia, a school that closed in 1972.
  2. Amos Alonzo Stagg coached many years at Pacific, which no longer has football,
  3. Bill Parcells played at Wichita State University, which discontinued it's football program in 1986.
Closing the school or ceasing the program of a once notable program does not diminish the historical notability of the program. George Washington has been dead a long time too, but we still have an article on him.

Football is stupid: Football is meaningless and has no academic value, why not write about a professor who makes a difference?

The Short Answer: WP:IDONTLIKEIT.
The beneifts of leadership and self-development skills from college sports is well-documented. For example, Harvard University has a very active athletic program. But even if they did not, many of the most respected schools do have athletic programs and there is a good deal of media support to back that up.

[edit] Junior College/Club/Intramural

Wikiproject College Football does not include junior college football, club football, or intramural football programs. At the present time, this is primarily due to a lack of interest but also due to notability concerns. Should interest in junior college football reach the point that articles begin to be created, a Junior College task force may be created. For similar reasons, schools that play intercollegiate football outside the NCAA or NAIA (such as Sprint Football or club teams) or intramural football teams are not covered by the project, nor are they considered notable, except in instances where there are extenuating circumstances.

[edit] Junior Varsity

Junior-varsity (JV) teams are not considered notable. Articles about Division I JV teams playing NAIA teams are considered notable, but junior varsity college players, coaches, teams, and normal games—unless there are extenuating circumstances—are not considered notable.

[edit] Non-college teams that played a college team

In the early days of college football, it was common practice for a high school team, a military team, or even a city club to play a college football team. The games themselves may be notable and under the aegis of this project, as in 1892 Wyoming Seminary vs. Mansfield State Normal football game. However, football teams not considered a part of a college or university are not covered by the project and are not considered notable under it.

[edit] Special Events

[edit] Single Seasons

Season articles (e.g. 2005 USC Trojans football team) are considered notable for all schools that participate in college football and are members of the National Collegiate Athletic Association or the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics.

[edit] Single Games

Regular season (e.g. 2005 Texas vs. Ohio State football game), conference championship games, and bowl games (e.g. 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl) are considered notable for all schools that participate in college football and are members of the National Collegiate Athletic Association or the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics.

[edit] Special Plays

College football generates unique plays from time to time, some that are analyzed and reviewed and referenced throughout the ages. The Play is one example, which is a part of the category American football plays.

[edit] Awards

Major national college football awards and their recipients are considered notable. A list of the major college awards can be found on the Template:College Football Awards. Note that conference awards, including All-conference team selections, are not automatically considered notable.

[edit] Marching Bands

Marching bands are typically considered part of the pageantry of college football. However, there is a wonderful team at Wikipedia:WikiProject Marching band that is taking care of all marching band issues. We refer to their project as "living across the street" from ours. Marching bands are not typically considered part of Wikiproject College football.

However, there are times when the marching band and the football game have interacted. The Play is one specific example. On those occasions, we coordinate with the related project (in this case, the band).

[edit] Other Events

General pageantry and special events dealing with college football outside of the game itself are typically listed on the page of the college hosting the event. In the rare instance that the event is notable enough to support a standalone page, it may fall under the aegis of the College Football Wikiproject. If the event was founded to promote a college football team or to commemorate a particular game, consider it a part of the project. The Aggie Bonfire is one such example.

[edit] Lists

Due to the nature of college football and the fact that the subject is underrepresented on Wikipedia, it may be preferable to present information in list format. List topics are notable if they deal with a school, individual, football conference, or other organization that is itself notable under the guidelines listed on this page. No list describing an aspect of a non-notable subject can be notable. Notable subjects can have non-notable lists, however. Editors are advised to use their judgment when composing list-style information. An article entitled List of Maryland Terrapins football fans will not be notable. A list entitled Maryland Terrapins NFL Draft picks, on the other hand, will be notable.

[edit] Individuals

For more details on this topic, see Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons.

[edit] Players

Wikipedia Notability states, "Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports and meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them are considered notable."

For the college football project, we interpret this to include players that:

Qualification Player Notes
...went on to play in the National Football League Troy Aikman, Marcus Allen Both had illustrious NFL careers
...went on to coach in the National Football League Bill Parcells He played at Wichita State University
...inducted in the College Football Hall of Fame Earl Abell, Alex Agase, Harry Agganis Three of many inductees
...won a major award Roger Staubach, Pete Dawkins both won the Heisman Trophy
...completed a special noteworthy play or achievement Daniel Ruettiger subject of film Rudy
...achieve notability outside of college football Ronald Reagan, Gerald R. Ford Former US Presidents who played college football

However, this does not mean that every player on every team should have an article. Before creating an article on an individual player, consider what makes them notable for an article and whether there are sufficient sources available to write a good article. Articles on living or recently deceased players must conform to The policy on biographies of living persons.

[edit] Common arguments encountered

The following are some of the common arguments encountered against notability of a college football player.

Non-Notable: The player does not meet WP:BIO

The Short Answer: Please read WP:BIO a little more carefully.
As of this writing, WP:BIO states "Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports (who meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them)." Players at the collegiate level can meet this notability requirement based on secondary sources published about their playing career.

The player is a bench-warmer The athlete does not play or hasn't played very much.

The Short Answer: Specialist Topics are often not well known
Notability in college football normally comes from being an active player, but it is not the only way a player can become notable. There may be other reasons for notability of a "specialist topic" within college football. Katie Hnida and Daniel Ruettiger are examples of players with little playing time but accomplishing a unique or noteworthy place in college football.
Another example is Tim Tebow. During his freshman year, there were two attempts to delete his page as "non-notable" but those who followed college football closely picked up on the effort. The members of this project fought and kept the article because it was widely accepted among the community that this particular player would rapidly become widely known (and was already notable among specialists), even though the general population was not aware of the player at the time. While it is true that "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" (see WP:CRYSTALBALL), this was a case where the college football specialists were able to sort out the importance of keeping an article when the general population of editors were unable to do so.

Every player does not deserve an article: There are too many players and pages throughout history for every college football player to have an article on Wikipedia.

The Short Answer: Aggreed, but so what? See WP:EVERYTHING
Wikipedia should not be about everything, yes. That does not mean that a particular college football player may not be notable. WP:Everything states that the Wikipedia community has decided not to document every verifiable fact and accordingly has established notability guidelines on what should be kept.
This means that not every college football player should have an article--but that also does not translate into an argument that any given article about a college football player should be deleted. Because there may be a question about notability, there should be a specific reason to delete or not to delete.
This project has found that one editor's "everything" argument is another editor's "surmountable problem" (see below).

No information: The article is really short and has no information.

The Short Answer: Surmountable problem and {{Template:Sofixit}}
As the Surmountable Problem essay states, "even a poor article can be of benefit, and not so bad that Wikipedia is better off without it." Unless the article is harmful in some way, it likely should be improved instead of deleted. So fix it!

No value to society It is a shame society places so much value on football, when educators like (your favorite college professor) go unnoticed.

The Short Answer: WP:IDONTLIKEIT
Where one editor may want to work on academic-related articles, others may choose to work on athletic related articles. Yes, society and the news media place more emphasis on sports than academics. This project (and Wikipedia in general) recognizes that fact as an indicator of notability.
"Contribution to society" is not the only test for notability.

Too long ago This player hasn't done anything since college, and that was a long time ago

The Short Answer: Notability is not temporary
If a player was notable in 1950's (such as Heisman Trophy winner Pete Dawkins) and did little if anything after college football, that does not negate their contribution to college football. There is no need to show continual coverage after the period of noteworthy achievment occured.

Just an NAIA player This player only played for an NAIA school and is not notable

The Short Answer: Being an NAIA player does not "disqualify" from notability.
Just being an NAIA player does not make that player "non-notable" -- there are many NAIA players that have gone on to professional football (Derrick Ward), become notable head coaches (Jerry Kill), or otherwise met notability requirements. If the player is notable, they deserve an article.

[edit] Discussion Library

[edit] Coaches

Our project consideres all head coaches (past and present) of notable college football programs to be notable. Notable college football programs are further defined as NCAA (Division I FBS, Division I FCS, Division II, and Division III) and NAIA programs. This notability holds true provided that they coached a team for at least one official game.

We know that there are those who think this is an abuse of notability and do not like that it will create many stub articles. It also can be opposed by the "Notability is inherited" argument. However, there is a good deal of reasoning for this stance--enough, we believe, to outweigh any inherited notability issues.

  1. Researchers on college football find it helpful to view what a peer coach had done in the same school, conference, or league--even if only for one season.
  2. For most schools, the head football coach is often times the most well-known (and highest paid) member of the faculty of that school--more than the college president, athletic director, dean of students, or head of the math department.
  3. For just about any college, a significant amount of the media coverage is about the major sports program (football, basketball, etc).
  4. The information is notable because statistics on the program are compiled and maintained across all time, and are readily available from multiple sources both on and off the internet.
  5. As our research grows, we find more and more coaches "inter-connect" between colleges. They may start at one school, then take a coaching position at another, and end up at a third or fourth school. Harold Elliott is just one of many examples of articles that started out as just such a stub article and has grown to a robust article.

[edit] Common arguments encountered

The following are some of the common arguments encountered against notability of a head coach.

Does not meet standards: The subjects do not meet any part of WP:BIO

The Short Answer: Please read WP:BIO a little more carefully.
As of this writing, WP:BIO states "Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports (who meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them)." Head coaches at the collegiate level meet the notability requirement.

No Team Article: The team which they managed does not even have its own article. Surely if the team they managed was anyway notable it'd have its own article.

The Short Answer: WP:OTHERSTUFF
Wikipedia is far from complete. The absence of a "team" article at any given time does not negate the need for a coach article for the team.

Sources Unreliable: The articles contain no citations from reliable sources, which are required under the verifiability policy. One editor stated, "Note that cfbdatawarehouse.com cannot be considered a reliable source - it is merely a college football enthusiast site. I would expect to see news coverage or similar, secondary sources."

The Short Answer: Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources
Our project will often use the College Football Data Warehouse as it is considered a reliable source. This database is is linked to many, many pages on Wikipedia for statisitics and biographical information. Not only has this website has proven time and again to be a reliable source of information, but it is maintained by an established expert on the topic and is relevant to the field.
Also, this particular website (and others like it) are used to pull statistical data, not opinion or point-of-view. The "reliability of source" test does not need to be as stringent for facts as compared to opinion.
We also will reference the school website itself for historical data on coaching changes, records history, coaching tenure, etc. We contend that there is no better source than the school itself for information on who the coach is at any given time.

Too Long Ago: This happened too long ago, there isn't any way to verify it online.

The Short Answer: Notability cannot be measured for some historical topics
This argument is made from time to time on historical college football data. Football scores from 1910 don't make today's newspapers very often, so we rely more on "enthusiast" websites, college historical data, and offline sources.

This coach is too obscure No one has ever heard of this guy, he's only coached at a small school.

The Short Answer: Specialist Topics are often not well known
Notability does not necessarily arrive from being widely known, but can also arrive from the importance or uniqueness in the field. Generally, college football teams only have one coach at a time (there are rare instances of dual coaches, but then that is considered even more notable). As an example, even though Oscar Dahlene only coached for one year at a small college in Kansas, he was the only coach that year of that school. As a consequence, he was the only coach with his team's schedule--the only coach to play the teams he played, that year in that order.
This unique information is of great importance to those who study college football history.

Lousy Coach: The coach never won a game or hardly ever won a game

A coach having a "losing record" does not disqualify for notability. Notability requirements on Wikipedia specifically state that notability can come from an especially poor performance (such as Vinko Bogataj, the "agony of defeat"). Inside college football, we see Jake High (one scoreless 0-8 season), Ronald Beard (0-44 over 4 seasons), and George Allen (Cumberland) (in one game defeated 222 to zero) as notable examples of coaches with exceptionally poor performances.

It's about the team, not the coach: The statistics are about the team results, not the coach

Like it or not, at the college level football teams are grouped and judged under the coach, and the coach is judged, hired, and fired based on the results of the team.

No History Needed: Maybe the current coach should be listed, but certainly the coach from a long time ago is not notable.

The Short Answer: Notability is not temporary.
The argument raises several quesitons: does this mean that the editor agrees that the current coach is notable, but then will become "non-notable" when that coach leaves the post--forcing deletion of the page? And if not, all the previous coaches were at one time the "current coach" -- so if holding the post is notable, then why would "no longer holding the post" suddenly and automatically make them not notable?

The article is too short There is really no information with this, it's just a stub.

The Short Answer: Review Wikipedia:Stub
Stub articles are an important part of Wikipedia. Most articles get their start as stubs, and many stay as stubs for a very long time--maybe for all time. Once a stub article has been created, other editors will also be able to enhance it.

Academic Standards We should hold coaches to the same academic standard we hold teachers to--the coach must be widely published.

The Short Answer: Compare to Wikipedia:Notability (academics)
In modern times, college football teams generally play at least ten game seasons. This means that there are eleven total teams involved for a given season (ten opponents plus the team itself). We contend that each game is the industry equivalent to an academically published paper. Game summaries and statistics are published by both schools, the conference, at the home town newspapers of each team, the large regional or state newspapers, and the governing body (NAIA, NCAA, etc)--normally many national papers and newsworthy websites today pick up these summaries and statistics as well. From there, sportswriters continue to develop and write their own articles and stories based on their information gathered, their research, thier conversastions, and thier observations.
Also, newspapers and news sources will print pre-game analysis each week. Even for very small schools, an entire season's worth of news media can result in the coach being quoted in over 20 newspaper articles in eleven different newspapers (figure 10 opponents and the hometown paper, and that is at only one article for each game-paper combination).
Add to that, even most of the smallest schools have a "sports information director" who is responsible for the distribution of all sports data and controlling media contact with the school. The need for a sports information director to manage and distribute the information is a strong indicator of the demand for information on the topic.
The demand for widely sought information is yet another indicator of notability.

[edit] Discussion Library

The issue of notability of coaches has been discused on many occasions on Wikipedia:

[edit] Assistant Coaches

Assistant coaches, managers, and other staff subordinate to the head coach may or may not be notable depending on their accomplishments, past programs, tenure, and other factors. However, there are certain qualifications where an assitant coach would be considered notable:

  • assistant coaches who later become a head coach
  • assistant coaches who win the Broyles Award (an annual award given to honor the best assistant coach in college football)
  • assistant coaches who take over head coaching duties for a series of games due to the injury or death of the head coach
  • assistant coaches who previously were notbable as head coaches
  • assistant coaches who are a significant part of a noteworthy event or achievement
Qualification Assistant Coach Notes
...goes on to be a head coach Bill Snyder Assistant coach for Hayden Fry at University of Iowa, head coach at Kansas State
...win the Broyles Award Jim Heacock Won the award in 2007 while an assistant coach for the Ohio State Buckeyes
...take over head coaching duties Bill Lynch,Bob Seaman Lynch was the assistant for Terry Hoeppner at Indiana during Hoeppener's battle with cancer, Seaman was the assistant for Ben Wilson, who died with about half of his team in a plane crash. Both went on to be named the head coach the next year.
...were previous head coaches Stan Parrish, Tim McCarty Parrish was the head coach at Kansas State, Wabash, and Marshall, then went on to be an assistant coach at Rutgers and Michigan. McCarty was the head coach at Tabor and East Central, then became assistant coach at Kansas State
...noteworthy achievement or event William "Red" Dawson Assistant coach at Marshall University and major character in the movie We Are Marshall

[edit] Officials

Game officials often take the stance that they prefer to keep the focus on the game and off of themselves. This stance is supported by the fact that the College Football Hall of Fame does not induct officials. Even when officials make notable errors such as the Fifth Down Game (1990), we prefer to simply use the term "the official" (general) or "the back judge" (specific offical position) instead of listing the name of the person fulfilling the role of the official.

Officals can obtain notability through other means, such as being a head coach. There is a List of NFL officials.

[edit] Administrative and other staff

Like the head coach, the college football project considers the college or university athletic director to be notable. Other administrative positions (such as assistant athletic director or sports information director) are non-notable positions.

[edit] Mascots

Current and past mascots of notable schools are considered notable. Notable mascorts include:

  1. character mascots
  2. live animal mascots
  3. item mascots
  4. discontinued mascots.
Category Mascot Notes
...Character mastcot Sparty, Hokie Bird anyone who portrays the character (i.e. the student who wears the suit) would not be considered notable
...live animal mascot Ralphie one page for all generations of the mascot, as demonstrated with Ralphie I, II, III, IV, and V
...item mascots Ramblin' Wreck a 1930 Ford Model A Sports coupe
...discontinued mascots Sammy Seminole In 1972 Sammy Seminole was retired at the request of the Seminole Tribe of Florida.

[edit] Broadcasters and sportswriters

The project includes national broadcasters and sportswriters who work in a noteworthy capacity with college football. Some of these key people are involved in creating nationally recognized polls, where others are widely recognized for their contribution. Examples include Craig James (American football), Lee Corso, and Chris Fowler.

[edit] Fact vs Fiction

Fictional events or people in college football, such as the films The Program, Everybody's All-American, and Necessary Roughness are outside the scope of the project.

Many films and books are based on fact but have fictional components. On occasion, the project may point to movies and books that focus on events that really happened, such as the films Knute Rockne, All American, Rudy, and We Are Marshall. Wikiproject College Football will also coordinate with other Wikiprojects involved with those topics, such as Wikipedia:WikiProject Films.