Talk:Wigger

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Talk:Wigger/Archive 1

1 Defamatory? Wrong word - fix plz
2 Network Mixups
3 Blackface Minstrelsy
4 Economic Class of the Wigger
5 Remove the N word
6 this is stupid.
7 DO NOT MERGE
8 You guys are way too politically correct to be dictating what is put on this site
9 "Wigger" and "white nigger" are not the same term
10 This version is horrible.
11 Zoot Suiters weren't white
12 Ali G
13 Gangsta
14 Weegro/Wafrican-American
15 Edit warring about Category:African-American topics
16 Lester Bangs reference should be removed
17 Wigger vs. Wigga or Wiggah
18 Isn't the term wigger racist?
19 New Main Picture...Or Sub Picture
20 Wigger LOLCAT style parodies
21 Early use in a Science Fiction story
22 Ali G picture
23 agree with the "wigger" does not equal "white nigger" terminology historically enough for this encyclopedia entry
24 Added "Pejorative" to opening sentence

[edit] Defamatory? Wrong word - fix plz

from the main text: "The term most likely stems from a portmanteau of the word white and the defamatory term nigger." defamatory? mmm.. not exactly the best word.. kinda offensive.. try "derogatory".. I think it's the one you're after.. Can someone change this? I'm sure most will agree that derogatory identifies the word better than defamatory. BTW., looked up this term after Chris Rock in Everybody Hates Chris calls his shrimpy lil' friend "my wigga!", Season 3, Episode 12

[edit] Network Mixups

Changed 'Kazza' to 'Kazaa', and 'Limewire' to 'Gnutella', seeing as Gnutella is the actual network, and limewire is just a client. --Smackdat 21:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC) yah bitch yah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit] Blackface Minstrelsy

I would question the inclusion of blackface minstrelsy as a forerunner of wiggerism. The impulses behind minstrelsy are different from those of wiggers. In particular blackface was not affectionate towards blacks and black culture in the same way that wiggers are. It was also a performance style rather than a lifestyle choice.

I think I need to disagree. I'm not an expert, but I think I know enough to note that blackface can be (and continues to be!) a complex practice that, at one pole, includes affectionate portrayals (however misconstrued) of perceived "Blackness". See the entry for it, which goes into this. bntrpy 20:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with the first comment. I see no lineage that links blackface to wiggerism. First as was noted it wasn't a lifestyle. People didn't go around all the time dressed in blackface. Also, blackface was done as a comedy, just like you would sometimes see performers dress up as women in dresses (without a sexual connotation). The men who dressed in blackface were meant to look funny, whereas the the wiggers while they do look funny, that isn't their intent. Blackface was meant to be kind of demeaning to blacks, whereas for the wiggers they think they they are being respectful of the black culture when in reality they are being offensive. But more importantly to be a forerunner of something you are saying this led to that. You are saying this morphed into that. While one can find similarities between Blackface minstrelsy and wiggerism (I would indeed say the differences outweigh the similarities though) they both had different origins.

[edit] Economic Class of the Wigger

While I agree that most often you find wiggers in the Middle and Upper Classes, couldn't you also find some wiggers in the lower class as well? Of course upper and middle class wiggers are the most offensive wiggers because they don't have the urban poor experience but shouldn't the sentence "the term wigger is generally used to describe a young, middle or upper-class mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop culture" be changed to "the term wigger is generally used to describe a young, most often middle or upper-class mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop culture" to imply that there could be white poor wiggers as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.40.61.100 (talk) 16:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remove the N word

You could do like what the Jews do with God. They write it G-d because they don't believe that the name of God should be Written. So you could write the N word as either (the N word) or N-gger.

So like in this sentence:

The term is a portmanteau combining the words white and (the N word), and it has been used in a derogatory manner. The term wigger is generally used to describe a young, white mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop and thug culture. The word is considered offensive by some because of its similarity to (the N word), and because it reflects stereotypical notions about urban blacks.

The term is a portmanteau combining the words white and n_gger, and it has been used in a derogatory manner. The term wigger is generally used to describe a young, white mimicker of certain affectations of hip hop and thug culture. The word is considered offensive by some because of its similarity to n_gger, and because it reflects stereotypical notions about urban blacks.-unsigned

That should not be done, because it would be confusing and unencyclopedic. It would also be pointless because everyone would still know what word you mean, just as if you were to write "f_ck" instead of fuck. The word nigger exists, has its own Wikipedia article, and should be spelled properly. Spylab 17:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored. --Hojimachong^talk_con 06:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't empower the word by making it "special". Shinji nishizono 00:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

And Wikipedia is also not Bowdlerized. --Hojimachong^talk 02:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] this is stupid.

Wigger isnt a racist term, because a wigger isnt a race.

Nigger isnt a racist term, because nigger isnt a raceEAB 08:59, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually "nigger" is a racist term, simply because it has a negative connotation and is being used as a synonym for an entire ethnicity. "Wigger" on the other hand is a social/cultural identity. Thedeparted123 01:27, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DO NOT MERGE

SOMEONE IS STUPID ENOUGH TO SUGGEST MERGING THIS ARTICLE WITH WHITE NIGGER. WIGGER IS A VERY COMMON TERM, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF A SO-CALLED WHITE NIGGER. WIGGAS CAN APPLY TO ANY ETHNIC GROUPS BECAUSE IT SOMETIMES STAND FOR WANNABE-NIGGERS, WHITE NIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS THE RIGHT TRANSLATION.--Certified.Gangsta 22:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You guys are way too politically correct to be dictating what is put on this site

Like it or not a lot of people resent wagers because they are trying to become a part of a predominately black subculture. And this is not just from working-class rural rednecks either, it comes from a lot of black kids as well. Black kids that don’t think he grew up around hip-hop culture, and he just adopted it. I guess you guys just can’t relies that stereotypical white people and stereotypical black people can hate another ideology together.

And to the person who said it was an outright lie that a lot of blacks don’t take offense to the term. Have you ever met a black person. They sure as hell aren’t as sensitive as you yuppies are. There have been instances in class where a black kid thinks I said the “n-word” but doesn’t get mad after realizing I just said “wigger.”

Yes, I know it’s hard to believe but in many social circles, racial boundries still exist. And those that cross them are often mocked by all sides.

And please no-one call me a racist. I’m not saying one race is better than another, I’m just reporting facts about how this term is perceived. And ultimately, in most cases, the only people who are supposed to be offended by it are “wiggers”.

Question! Who do you mean by "you guys"? There's at least 50 different users (I believe that it's way more) who wrote this article... If you think it's to political correct you can simply change this and see how the rest of the community reacts. / 81.226.131.216 (talk) 22:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Wigger" and "white nigger" are not the same term

-Wigger is meant to be an insulting term (against wiggers) used to describe a white person who attempts to develop an identity associated with Hip-Hop culture.

-A “white nigger” is someone who is white but lives a poor, ignorant, violent life. A stereotypical nigger life. Irish immigrants were called white niggers, I doubt that is because they wanted to be a gangster-rappers. For instance, you could call people in a trailer park with a confederate flag and a Get R’ Done shirt on a white nigger. Yet they probably wouldn’t be a wigger.

And to answer the guy’s question about if he is a wigger because he dresses ghetto fabulous. Well, if you have ever worn South Pole merchandise when you didn’t have to than by average middle-class, 2/3 white, 1/3 black, college town-public high school standards, yes you are a wigger. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.29.65.159 (talk) 07:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

How does your definition of "white nigger" differ from "white trash"? Aliza250 (talk) 00:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This version is horrible.

Reading this page for ages, this is one of the worst versions ever. The definition that starts the page should be attributed to advertising/marketing person Marian Salzman, who put the term out with that definition in relation to black hip hop culture. The first line of the third paragraph has no source at all. And the idea that whites imitated blacks AFTER the abolition of slavery is faulty. The book Love and Theft shows that the cultural appropriations started before the end of slavery. The references in popular culture part is okay, but needs tons of citation in the sources. The actual artist of Weird Al's "I'm a Wigga" has his own myspace page, and can be listed. The Lady Sovereign track has NOTHING to do with the topic, and is more of a freestyle. Lester Bang's wasn't close to talking about wiggers in his "white nigger" essay. If that were the case why isn't John Lennon's "Woman is the Nigger of the World" listed. Or the book "How the Irish Became White?" And the book Wigger that is listed isn't even about the topic and isn't a reference in the popular culture. This page should be about listing theories, instances, and documentation of Caucasians who are accused of emulating or appropriating black mannerisms seen in American hip hop culture.

WHY was the website Wigger Lover located at http://wiggerlover.blogs.com/ removed? The talk back says it was because it caused the internet program to crashed, but it doesn't happen when I visit the site on my own. The site actually was somewhat of a wiki. It may label itself as a blog, but it's more of accurate than this page at times. It includes links to several definitions, from scholars and artists. It has tons of outside references and research. And it appears neutral in listing the documentation in the media and academia on the page... This page is a mess and should be opened up so some major revisions can be made. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JamOnWiki (talk • contribs) 05:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Zoot Suiters weren't white

In the list, toward the beginning, of white people taking on percieved black traits, Zoot Suiters were included. I think there may have been some white Zoot Suiters, but weren't most of them Hispanic, specifically Mexican? The "Zoot Suit Riots," for example, involved Mexican-Americans.Nagakura shin8 20:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ali G

He may not be the best example- maybe Jamie Kennedy or someone like that. I understand the choice, but a wigger is more of an American character; the British have a similar character in chav; which incorporates unique aspects of the British lower classes into the picture- this may be a better depiction for Ali G.

[edit] Gangsta

I don't think the creation of the gangsta icon can accurately be attributed to blacks- and thus its not really accurate to attribute whites in this capacity as "copying blacks". The original gangsters were Italians in the 20s-60s. This is the category that blacks blatantly copied much of their culture from- everything from trying to look tough, to ideals of dress styles, necklaces, mannerisms, organized gangs, etc- this is the basis for the black gangsta culture. Granted, they took it and added a little to it, such as rap, and some current whites emulate it, but its more complex than to simply claim that whites are emulating blacks, as those blacks emulated other whites....

[edit] Weegro/Wafrican-American

I have heard these terms used to describe white youth who emulate the middle-class black lifestyle. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.27.203.131 (talk) 20:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Edit warring about Category:African-American topics

User:Wassermann and User:Spylab are edit warring about the inclusion of Category:African-American topics, with no input whatever on the talkpage. This is bad practice, see Wikipedia:Edit warring. Edit summaries are not a discussion forum. Please take the disagreement to this talkpage so other people can join in and there's a chance for consensus. And don't revert each other any more until editors of the page have come to some agreement. I'd rather not adminprotect the page, which would stop all editing, or block the editors involved, but I will if I have to. Please be aware of the WP:3RR rule, and note especially that the rule

does not convey an entitlement to revert three times each day, nor does it endorse reverting as an editing technique; rather, the rule is an "electric fence". Editors may still be blocked even if they have not made more than three edits in any given 24 hour period, if their behavior is clearly disruptive... The bottom line: use common sense, and do not participate in edit wars. Rather than reverting multiple times, discuss the matter with other editors. If an action really needs reverting that much, somebody else will probably do it. Bishonen | talk 10:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Reverting twice and moving on to other things is not an edit war. I haven't even touched this article since a bit after 5pm on May 6. If you're going to write paragraphs raising the threat of protecting an article or blocking editors every time someone reverts an article twice on Wikipedia, you are going to be extremely busy. Spylab 11:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, no problem here w/ Spylab -- I just didn't understand his/her reversions, since "Wigger" is a topic that has something to do with African-Americans (albeit indirectly), and thus I sought to explain why I thought the category was valid in the edit summaries. I'm trying to group as many disparate topics dealing with African-Americans that aren't already categorized as such under this broad and miscellaneous 'topics' category. No big deal...go ahead and take "Wigger" out if you think that it doesn't fit (even though it does, of course). --Wassermann 20:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lester Bangs reference should be removed

He describes himself and other punk rockers as “white niggers,” not wiggers. The terms have different connotations. “Wiggers” are white people who emulate aspects of hip hop culture, while being a “white nigger” only constitutes violence, ignorance, poverty and irresponsibility. And while some punk rockers are labeled “white niggers” within this context, very few of them are emulating hip hop culture. Therefore, they are not wiggers. Thedeparted123 01:21, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. While I'm not sure if the Lester Bangs ref belongs or not, I don't believe "violence, ignorance, poverty and irresponsibility" was what Bangs was denoting by his use of the term "white nigger". Rather, it was a description of someone outside the mainstream of status quo "white" society. The entry for him has a note about this, under "Legacy", correctly linking it to Norman Mailer's essay The White Negro: Superficial Reflections on the Hipster. Obviously, the many connotations of the word "nigger", and of slang in general, are bound up with the problem of defining the word "wigger" and its status (insulting? satirical? a statement of a sort of fact?) bntrpy 20:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wigger vs. Wigga or Wiggah

I see several sides to this whole issue.

I recognize this isn't supported (well, I haven't tried to find support yet) and thus not ready for prime time, but when I was introduced to the term and, if I find the need to use it, it's been very carefully pronounced as "wiggAH". The implication isn't "here's a white person who is acting like a nigger", but rather, here is a white person who is acting in a mannered, affected, put-on of a larger-than-life "niggah" – as in Niggas with Attitude. At it's most extreme, it's asinine. But has developed into a socially-natural stance for many young people, which calls into question where the line between "Black" and "Mainstream (e.g. hip-hop enthusiasm) cultures is located.

I've sometimes interpreted in the "wiggah" stance a mixture of discomfort/shame (?) with one's own identity, mixed with a kind of romantic (but arguably still potentially racist) imagining of the more authentic Other. It's often a hyper-masculinizing gesture, possibly born out of insecurity with the wearer's own masculinity, and has elements of class denial, as well. Living in a major city (San Francisco, CA, USA), I've also seen it as an adopted-yet-naturalized stance for kids from all backgrounds (Latino, Vietnamese, Filipino, etc) and socio-economic statuses. Hip-hop – a major conveyer of images and sterotypes of "Blackness", masculinity, criminality – and its surrounding urban culture has been a major de facto part of mainstream culture for several decades, at least since the acceptance of Hip-hop by the mainstream media. But maybe more to the point, the affectations of hip-hop/urban culture (or "acting Black", depending on your POV) may have more to do with a way of demonstrating "realness", toughness, belonging, and most importantly, rebellion against "straightness"/status-quo culture, which implicitly is linked to "whiteness" and Standard English. Race, and cultures identified with particular races, are reference points, but not one-dimensional ones. Teen culture and rebellion is possibly more basic in the equation.

The very assumption that there is an "authentically Black" way of being, and that perceived trespassers are therefore soulless imitators, is further problematic – that Blackness (and, of course, race in general) isn't to large degrees a construction from the start, by both outsiders and insiders (Blacks, here) who may internalize (often insulting) images of Blacks, which have circulated throughout culture for more than 2 centuries. I don't mean to say that some dimensions of Black culture aren't historically rich, un-self-conscious, with an authenticity (if one believes such a thing exists). Only, that it doesn't exist as an absolute, divorced from a dynamic with other cultures.

Further, mainstream American culture is a bastard, a pastiche, a hybrid. Of course it's always had elements infused into it from the tremendous creativity from the Black community, as from others. Simply listening to hip-hop, adopting manners of dress , language, and behaviour originally identified with Blacks (sometimes incorrectly) wouldn't – in a more reasonable world – constitute "wiggertude". It's been going on for centuries. And the reverse is just as problematic: there are debates in the Black community about what it means to be "acting white" (speaking standard English? interested in education or upward socio-economic mobility? associating with whites? etc.) or whether such a concept isn't anathema.

Anyway, I argue for a multi-faceted definition that makes note of the different inflections of the term (insulting, descriptive, etc). Perhaps even inclusion – if support can be found – for a bifurcation between "wigger" and "wigga", or at least the equivalent concepts. My guess is that, logistically, there's a threshold between white kids who have integrated a "normal" amount of Black culture into day-to-day life, and "wiggers" who are more conspicuously performative, presumptuous, and affected. I don't know how this article can draw that line, other than noting the problematic nature of this issue which is built into the term.

If others agree with the perspectives I'm offering here, I'd be willing to find support and integrate them into the article. bntrpy 22:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Isn't the term wigger racist?

1. It's basically saying the N-Word, even if you're not saying the N-Word you're still saying that this white person is a black N-Word.

2. It suggest that all black people are N-Words and they are all gangsta which is obviously not true.

3. Kind of like what I said for #2, I'd like to state that it's implying that "hip-off" is only for N-Word(s), which isn't true. I guess African American invented it but that's no reason other cultures can't take part in it or that black people who like it are N-Word(s)

[edit] New Main Picture...Or Sub Picture

I believe this is the perfect wigger example:

Image:Http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u142/PCDubz/meeE.jpg

[edit] Wigger LOLCAT style parodies

Recently "funny wigger pictures" have started becoming a viral thing on the net. It started out on ROFL WIGGER and spread from there. It was on digg yesterday with almost 3000 diggs: http://www.digg.com/offbeat_news/Real_Gangstas_Have_Vines_on_Their_Curtains_PICTURE Its worth keeping an eye out, its not really a racist term, sure it got its basis in a racist word, but now its more of a cultural group such as Emo or Goth. I don't know if this ROFL Wigger craze is worthy of the wigger wiki page, but I thought I would mention it here for consideration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.237.224.25 (talk)

[edit] Early use in a Science Fiction story

I came to this page hoping to find a citation for a long-ago science fiction story about an alternate universe where blacks were the dominant class and whites were the persecuted slaves. In that story whites were called "whiggers", I guess just to make the analogy more obvious.

Unfortunately, I don't have more data than that.

Aliza250 (talk) 00:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ali G picture

Sasha Baron Cohen is Jewish, so it's debatable whether he should be considered white or of European descent as described in the article.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 22:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] agree with the "wigger" does not equal "white nigger" terminology historically enough for this encyclopedia entry

I agree "wigger" as a modern term for 'white nigger' (white who adopts urban black cultural style/speech etc) and the historic use of the term "white nigger" are different. "White nigger" are used in the "Irish are not white" ideas of certain times in the past among English and anglo-saxon types. "Italians" have also been called "white niggers", it is related to the term any white who is dark eyed & or haired or complexion is "black" (just not black skinned) this is continued in certain terms like Swedish "Swartskalle" (black headed) or the English term wog. 67.5.160.29 (talk) 09:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Added "Pejorative" to opening sentence

I added the word "pejorative" so as to make the opening sentence now read, "... is a pejorative slang term...". Regardless of how common the word "wigger" (or any of its corruptions) is thrown around in certain circles, I don't think anyone can adequately argue that the term is in good nature and socially acceptable, bereft of any derogatory insinuation. BostonFenian (talk) 19:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)