User talk:Whlee

• 1 (08/26/05-05/14/07)

[edit] Help where?

Where's the article that you're working on? I'm a bit confused. Cydevil38 22:30, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it's better to draw out a map delineating locations of Balhae's provinces. I think this map is a pretty good reference. Cydevil38 03:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfC User Conduct on Assault11

I have filed for a RfC User Conduct on Assault11 for disruptive editing at template:History of Manchuria. The RfC needs more than one disputant to sign it to have it come to effect. As one of the editors who's been disputing with Assault11, can you please certify the basis for this dispute? Please read the description, then sign here if you agree with it. Cydevil38 15:31, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] manchu wikipedia

sorry for the late reply, I've kind of busy in real life and haven't been on wikipedia on a regular basis =(. in reply to your idea of a manchu wikipedia, that sounds like a great idea! unfortunately I'm not a native speaker and still learning as well. Anyway on another related matter, I see that you are also interested in expanding the information available on the English Wikipedia as well. A Translucent Mirror: History and Identity in Qing Imperial Ideology by Pamela Kyle Crossley is a very good source in case you're looking for English sources to cite. [1]. Abstrakt

[edit] Let me take a look

Give me some time for the Balhae sources. Good friend100 11:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

알개습니다 고마워요!Whlee 12:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Manchu-English dictionary

Not sure if this might help your work on Manchu wikipedia but here's the link. http://www.anaku.cn/Blog/index.php?job=art&articleid=a_20060818_221852

Abstrakt 03:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cautious POV

Hey, I'm sorry. I was just mocking the proposal of being cautious about POVness when POV is obviously zero. See you around. (Wikimachine 02:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC))

[edit] template:History of Manchuria

I've seen your template and I'd disagree with it. Its title is anachronistic and its usage is virtually nil under historical context, so it's not appropriate for a template on history. Also, it's overly long. Manchuria is the most common term used under historical context, which has been proven by google books search, and it's common sense for people who often read about the region's history that Manchuria is the most common term and using "Russia" or "China" to refer to this region in relation to historical entities is absurd. Cydevil38 04:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Jiejunkong states: Wikipolicy WP:NCGN is aware of the controversy in using old names, as it states "in a modern context" as a constraint. And i can only be agree with that, up to now Jiejunkong and I haven't found a suitable title yet this is therefore a temporary title. Concerning Manchuria (this term started to be used since 1817), i think that term is still commonly used if i find recent reliable and official maps then Manchuria prevail if not mentionned it would become difficult to prevent revert edit wars like now.Whlee 08:20, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Northeastern China is just a sad excuse to continue pushing for Northeast China(previously titled Northeastern China[2] until User:Naus change it a few weeks ago), and Jiejunkong is just selectively interpreting the WP:NCGN to fit his needs. This template is on history, which means that it's written under historical context. Read the WP:NCGN, where it says If the place does not exist anymore, or the article deals only with a place in a period when it held a different name, the widely accepted historical English name should be used. I have repeatedly provided evidence that under historical context(i.e. in relation to the template's contents), Manchuria is by far the most common name. If Manchuria cannot be used in modern context because "it does not exist anymore", then that post-Manchuria part of the region's history should be split off from the History of Manchuria template. WP:NCGN provides an excellent example in this regard:

• *Istanbul or Constantinople? Istanbul is the single widely accepted English name in modern context, but Constantinople is a widely accepted historical English name. Now Constantinople is a separate article covering the history of Istanbul until 1453 and the term used to refer to the city in historical context before 1453.[3]

It is even controversial whether "Northeast China" is the "single widely accepted English name in modern context", since Manchuria is also commonly used in that regard. And in historical context, Manchuria is by far the most common term to refer to that region. And could "Northeastern China" be a viable geographic term used under historical context? The major problem with this usage is that not only is it not clearly defined in authoritative sources such as dictionaries, it is also anachronistism at its worst, because "China" is a cultural region, and since this cultural region fluctuated considerably throughout history, this "northeastern" China constantly changes geography-wise. These users are just trying to push for a sinocentric term disregarding the opinion of others. Many editors have already expressed their preference for Manchuria and opposed Northeast China. Jiejunkong et al should just learn to live with compromises and opinions of others. Cydevil38 10:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

You have to discuss with him directly so as to find a compromise between both parties (pro-Northeast China and anti-Northeast China) because My low level in English proficiency do not allow me to strenghthen my arguments based on reliable sources. When i write in English peple often misundertstand what i'd lke to say. If you want i can help you to bring them so as to fight against strong chauvinism/Nationalism.Whlee 15:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe they just can't be convinced otherwise, they're so too nationalistic. So I'm trying to have it so that they'll have to reach majority consensus in order to rename the title of the template, like a request for move on article titles. A lot of editors, including an administrator, have showed support for the title "Manchuria", so you don't have to cave into the demands of a few editors who are too nationalistic to see things from a neutral point of view. Anyways, I'll make some changes to your template proposal to what I believe to be appropriate. Please consider them. Cydevil38 22:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

To avoid revert wars, I suggest first proposing a draft template on the article's talk page and do a survey on whether editors agree on it. Notify the editors who were previously involved, and give it some time to receive comprehensive input. If consensus is reached by majority of editors, just make the change. Cydevil38 22:52, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:NCGN

I have just read WP:NCGN in detail, and here's what I found.

• In widely accepted names, the current name covers the modern era period, while historical name covers the relevant historical period.
• WP:NCGN has layed out a procedural guideline to proving a widely accepted name. You don't have to go looking for archaic maps to provide evidence. There is already a guideline to proving the appropriate widely accepted name. I'm gathering evidence for Manchuria covering the historical periods of Goguryeo, Liao Dynasty and Jin Dynasty, as well as Gojoseon and Balhae in some cases. That covers the first millennia of Manchuria's history. So far, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of Manchuria. If Jiejunkong and Wiki pokemon continues to insist on Northeast China and its variants, we can simply split the template, having Manchuria cover the historical periods where it is widely accepted, while letting Northeast China or its variant cover the contemporary history or the historical period where that term is widely accepted(if such historical period exists). And if Jiejunkong and Wiki pokemon wants to change the template's title, let them file a WP:RM and try to reach a consensus. Otherwise, lets just stick to the title. Cydevil38 07:11, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Thank you for your support for the future gan.wikipedia.org --Jose77 01:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] on your proposal for changes to the template

Can you maybe cut down on some of the contents? It has way too many entries and when it is actually put on articles, it will clog it significantly. I think it has a lot of extraneous elements to it, such as ethnic groups. You don't have to include all ethnic groups into the template, perhaps just some of the ethnic groups that had a significant role in Manchuria's history. You can create another template on all the ethnic groups of the region, or other regions, such as Northeast Asia.

Also, don't mind too much about the title of the template. Jiejunkong and Wikipokemon continues to dispute the title, but so far have provided no evidence to their claims and ignores the recommended protocol set forth by WP:NCGN. They should just learn to work by consensus rather than personal preferences. If they think they can establish Northeast China as the appropriate name for the template, they should do so per the recommended protocol from WP:NCGN and file for a Request for Move to reach a conesnsus. Otherwise, don't mind the title, just focus on the contents. Cydevil38 02:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Then perhaps we can present "less important" entities that had minor roles in the region's history with smaller fonts, and also present ethnic groups or treaties in smaller fonts. At least that will save some space. What do you think? Cydevil38 00:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of monarchs of Korea

한국사이긴 하나, 중국의 식민기구이므로 포함시키면 안됩니다. 어느 한국인도 이 기구들의 통치자들을 자국왕이라 생각하지 않습니다.

Between Korea one it is long, when it is a colonial organization of China it is not included it is made. Which Korean does not think the rule people of these organizations the home country king.--Korea history 01:42, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Korean History Forum

Hello, Are you interested in running a Korean History forum? I already have one running but I don't have the time to maintain I was hoping a new forum could be created, where I could transfer all of my data and members to yours, are you interested? Jegal 00:51, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The relation between Hungarian and Mohe/Jurchen/Mongol

Hey, thank you for posting a new reference in Dae Jung-sang. I believe Hungarians were originally from northwestern Asia but hasn't found enough proof. The new reference is quite useful.--Jiejunkong 00:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing image Image:Manchuria basin.JPG

[edit] "North East" China geography stub types

See my earlier edit comment. What you're doing is essentially vandalising these templates. The whole point of a stub template is that it populates a category: removing the category completely defeats the purpose of having them. The current scheme is consistent with Northeast China, with the other stub categories also corresponding to PRC-designated "regions". The individual provinces also don't have enough articles to have their own stub categories. If you have some objection to this scheme, please proposed changing it at an appropriate venue and get consensus to do so, or if you really must, propose the stub category for deletion (or renaming, or replacement with something else). I'm going to fix these (again), and if you keep "de-categorising" them, I'll protect them. Alai 16:34, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

That'd essentially be a renaming, so if you really think it'd be a good idea, I'd suggest taking it to WP:SFD. I'd have to say it seems a dubious candidate, though: Manchuria is a historical term, and highly ambiguous in scope; Northeast China seems both more "current", and more clearly-defined. Alai 22:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Chieftains of the Jurchens

Hi since I'm lacking in reading Korean, could please help with the List of Chieftains of the Jurchens article and compare it with the list on [4], thanks Abstrakt —Preceding comment was added at 04:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Image:Oei Invasion.jpg

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Campaignbox 2nd Koryo - Khitan War

A tag has been placed on Template:Campaignbox 2nd Koryo - Khitan War requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

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Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2008 (UTC)