Talk:Whitney Houston/Archive1

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Contents

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 04:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Record Sales

Ok, so I checked this article a few days ago and I see she has somethine like 250 million. With like 180/60 or so. I checked the sources, they seemed ok. In fact, one of them was a reputible magazine if I remember correctly. Now it's been replaced by someone saying 150/54 split and the source is a geocities site? Come on wikipedia... 68.61.190.184 05:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Vocal Profile

WHITNEY HOUSTON, is the best singer in the world. Whitney Houston, has a 3 octave belting range. Houston, is able to hit from C3-C6. She is a dramatic coloratura soprano, try listening to her live videos. I know some people would like to favour Mariah over Whitney because Mariah hasn't been on drugs and all that poo, but Whitney's back where she belongs. If it wasn't for Whitney, there'd be no record-breaking achievements, there wouldn't be a Mariah. Whitney can sing opera, which is unbelievable. I made that artistry/voice thing, so YES it should be put up. Whitney's the best singer in the world, so it's going back up. I know you Mariah fans are feeling scared now Whitney's back, it's tough luck, Mariah is poo :) You don't NEED proof about Whitney's voice or a bloody source, LISTEN TO HER LIVE VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE.


I think the vocal profile section should be removed until viable sources can support the information. D#3-C6 is not five octaves, it's one note below two. And she is definitely not a full dramatic soprano---she doesn't even sound like a soprano. Maybe in her early career she was a soprano, but right now her vocal color is dark enough to suit a mezzo, possibly a light contralto. I hesitate to completely remove the section because it contains possibly useful information, but it needs serious cleanup.

Whitney hit whistle notes with Mariah at the end of "When you Believe".They are in the background so listen carefully[1]. Mariah even admitted it on an interview with Soul Train.
Where is this interview? I have never heard of it, please provide a source from which I can see it. (Trent Jones 14:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC))
I agree with most that Whitney has an incredible voice (although that's a little irrelevant, hehe), but I find it hard to believe that she can access the whistle register. Although, I'd love to see or read the interview Mariah had with Soul Train, because I always thought the whistle at the end of "When You Believe" was Mariah's only (it sounds like her). In fact, most reports I've read about Whitney state that her range is C3-C6, exactly 3 octaves. I believe it. Unfortunately, Wikipedia doesn't allow original research, so we'll need strong proof that Whitney sings the Eb6 and Bb6. But the vocal profile section is definitely worth keeping.

I feel that the vocal profile shoud not have been removed. Whitney's voice is definitely worth mentioning. If this were my first time reading about Whitney Houston, I would not know that she had a great voice from reading this article. Her voice is not mentined at all and it should be. Whistle register isn't everything. She is not known for whistle register, so it is not necessary to mention it at all. She is known for her vocal power. You can still be a great singer without whistle register. It is possible to speak about her voice without mentioning it or her exact highest and lowest notes. She made a big impact on music with her voice and skill, not just her accomplishments. She is very much a dramatic mezzo soprano. She may not sound like a soprano to you due to her rich, deep natural voice, but she is a soprano because she sings notes of that of a soprano. Her high notes are very clear even with her deep singing voice. She has many musical strengths including lots of vocal runs, vocal acrobatics, and making smooth transitions between her registers. She is great at live performances which in many cases has ended in a standing ovation, much audience participation, and tears even from other singers (I've seen this myself)[2]. When live, she does different renditions each time; she doesn't have to do the studio version to sound great. She has a way of making even the most difficult arrangement seem effortless. Even her a capella is phenomenal. I remember seeing her do about just 15 seconds of impromptu a capella singing Guide Me O' Thou Great Jehovah on The Arsenio Hall Show. There were so many vocal runs and variety in just those 15 seconds; she blew the audience away. I am not just saying this as a fan, it's just what I have seen. She evokes so much emotion and passion through song and it needs to be noted. I am not comparing her to anyone or trying to biased, I just feel a voice section needs to be added to talk about her great voice. - Autumn

You are right. A mention of her voice was needed because if someone didn't know Whitney Houston they would not be aware of her voice power and emotional-evoking performances and how she has influenced singers who came along after her in the 1990's, such as Kelly Price, Mariah Carey, and Christina Aguliera. If you read Mariah Carey's article it mentions her voice a zillion times! Now I see that Whitney Houston's article mentions her voice a little. I remember reading this article about a year ago, and there would be something written about Whitney's great vocal ability but then it would be erased immediately by someone else. After a while it would appear again, but it would be deleted just as quickly. So then there was nothing in there about her voice for a long time. Also someone kept erasing the opening statement where it read she is a six time Grammy winner and putting that at the bottom of the article as to try and hide that fact. Why is it not kept at the beginning like every other multiple Grammy winning singer's intro on Wikipedia? I've come to realize, as I'm sure you may have, that her article is diluted to death by haters. But it's good to know someone else saw the things I thought were missing.

I'm not saying that the article shouldn't mention her voice, because it must since it's what she's famous for. My only problem is that the "vocal profile" section that used to be here was incredibly inaccurate and didn't source anything---it didn't even count octaves correctly. We know that she can't use the whistle register, and I agree that it isn't whistle register that makes her voice special. I just don't like questionable information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.99.21.142 (talk) 00:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC).
I do not like the questionable information either. I must agree with you: she's definitely not a soprano because she does not sing in that tessitura most of the time. She only makes occasional leaps into that region. Even some alto roles ask for the singer to venture above the staff, but that doesn't make them soprano or even mezzos. Also the source for "coloratura soprano" is wrong. The interview touches on Whitney's coloratura, not her vocal range. I know some people assume a coloratura singer must be a soprano but that's not the case.Boipussi 15:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Whitney Houston is not a coloratura soprano. Actually, she's not a soprano at all. Even in her heyday, Whitney only possessed a 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 octave range. It's not even three. Whitney's chest voice combined with her head voice made classifies her as a dramatic mezzo-soprano. Beyonce also falls into this vocal classification. Some argue that Whitney could've been a spinto soprano (like Barbra Streisand and Celine Dion). I don't care much about that, but she's definitely not a full soprano.

I disagree. Earlier in her career, she was indeed a soprano. A lyric (just as Streisand was). She had some powerful qualities, but definately not fully dramatic. She had no lower register and crackled at times when attempting low notes. Around about 1987, there seemed to be one of the first dramatic changes in her tone color. It seemed to darken a bit - typical with cigarette smokers (as she had been smoking for a while), i.e., her grammy performance of "one moment in time". When comparing that performance to her earlier performances, her tone was slightly huskier. By 1990 when "I'm your baby tonight" was released, it seemed that it took her much more effort to sing in her higher register (possibly due to more inflammation caused by smoking). All of her live performances demonstrate the more forced high notes, more frequent hoarseness, etc. She didn't sing notes above, hypothetically, an e flat with the same ease anymore. There is a video on youtube somewhere where her then tour choreographer, Candy ---? (the black female coroner on CSI, sorry can't remember her name) said that she would see Whitney before shows with a mask on her face with steam in it to help open her up... So, we know that whatever vocal profile she used to have would not be a permanent one, unfortunately, due to the damage of smoking and possibly drug use. So, should the vocal profile chronicle different stages in her carreer of characterize her present profile? I would say the typical "powerhouse" vocals we get from whitney are after 1987 when smoking has begun to affect the timbre of her voice, i.e., Bodygaurd, All the man that I need, and beyond. What would you guys say?

I don't think Whitney influenced Mariah. Minnie Riperton influenced Mariah and some of Minnie's vocal acrobatics can also be heard in some of Whitney's songs, even though Whitney can't sing as high. Also, Beyonce isn't a dramatic mezzo-soprano, she's a spino soprano because she can hit C6 and a bit beyond that.

her voca; profile should be put back up. she has influenced all of todays singers not because she chose to sing provocatively but because of her voice. And Mariah was influenced by whitney, she did admit that, especially whitney's first album.Her style of singing when she started was so Whitney atht she had to change.

I agree. Whitney did indeed influence Mariah, whose first album sounded like Whitney. By the second album, Mariah changed her style somewhat, but she did admit she was influenced by Whitney.

okay about that whistle thing on when you believe when you listen very very very carefully you can hear two like birdwhistling frases in the end they are so like instrumental I never noticed them before I heard of that interview in the newspapers but mariah has admitted on youtube her voice wasn't good that day and her voice dropped this is viewable on youtube it was on oprah the whistling sounds like when you can't/ won't use much control of it sounds breathy and sounds like it's a choir singing it it's a type of like dreamlover of mariah( a a-a-a a-a-a)when she sounds like a bird —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.64.83.187 (talk) 22:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The Bodyguard

Whitney is a talented singer who has sold millions of albums, but let's not get lose perspective. The soundtrack to the bodyguard was hardly "groundbreaking". See the new draft on the neutral point of view over on meta.wikipedia.com. --Robert Merkel

Sorry, I was reading an article about her, and it said the soundtrack was 'breathtaking' and 'enormously successful'. Well, I just tried not to plagiarise! But I can see where you're coming from- the term 'groundbreaking' should be reserved for research into cancer and stuff like that.

No problem. Music can be groundbreaking - for instance, Bach's "Well-tempered Clavier" was IMHO groundbreaking, as was "Rock Around The Clock" (as the first rock and roll song to reach a mainstream white audience), or Kraftwerk (as a significant inspiration for modern electronic music), or "Shaft" by Isaac Hayes (anticipated the disco sound), or "Heebie Jeebies" by Louis Armstrong as the first recording to feature "scat" singing. There's nothing wrong with the soundtrack to "The Bodyguard", but it's nothing that hadn't been done before plenty of times before. --Robert Merkel

I'm going to have to disagree with Robert here. I believe that the soundtrack to "The Bodyguard" was exceptionally groundbreaking in that it was the first time ever that a soundtrack had had such a huge amount of success. (Success had been seen before in films like "Saturday Night Fever," but never to this degree.) It was the first time music producers realized that they could have an entire market based on soundtrack albums, and it set a precedent for a huge amount of soundtrack albums to come.

The above comment is just the usual junk one can expect from Houston fans. Saturday Night Fever has actually sold more worldwide than The Bodyguard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide). 82.44.74.32 20:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

The above might have been a valid point if Purple Rain hadn't come 9 years before it. [rm negative insult--I'll bring the food 14:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)]

"Breathtaking"? It was conventional & unmemorable, with all of 1 song making an impression. Compare "The Blues Brothers" soundtrack, or "The Commitments". "Groundbreaking" I might agree with, but that suggests the album had special qualities, like introducing new production techniques; perhaps "landmark"? Without Whitney's voice, & starring, it would have been nothing special, & would never have become the #1 soundtrack album of the '90s. Trekphiler 09:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

The Bodyguard is definitely a memorable album. For someone to say it is not is ridiculous. Perhaps groundbreaking is not the word that is appropriate to you, but unmemorable deifinitelty is not either. It is also very ignorant to call what was said "junk" from a Whitney fan. How do you know that was a Whitney fan? Just because something nice was said, is it impossible to say something nice about The Bodyguard album or Whitney? I think it is just as crazy to receive thoughts from people who aren't fans of her at all. Who says a non-fan's thoughts are more important than a fan's. It's all about how well the soundtrack did. Maybe it didn't do as well as Saturday Night Fever, but it did extremely well for itself. Besides Saturday Night Fever, how many other soundtracks did as well? One, two? Not many, right? So give it the props it deserves. You're right, if it wasn't for Whitney, the soundtrack would have been nothing much, but that's the point. We are talking about Whintey here. She brought the soundtrack to major success which is why it should be mentioned here on her page. It sold 37 million copies for a reason, because it was incredible. I am not saying this as a fan, just as a person with common sense. When I Will Always Love You and I Have Nothing and Run To You all came out there wasn't a soul in this world who wasn't singing it and loving it. Aside from sales itself, it was a great love album. No one can dispute that. She outdid herself and it deserves good ratings in all fairness. - Autumn

Fair use vs. plagiarism

Houston cemented her superstar status on her next album, Whitney; despite the unimaginative title, it became the first album by a female artist to debut at number one, and sold over nine-million copies. [3]

This needs to be either quoted word for word or thoroughly rewritten. We can't just include snippets of text lifted from another websited and still "promise you wrote it yourself", now, can we? --Uncle Ed 01:11, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Relations with Unification Church

Houston is known for her charitable bent, making significant contributions to the United Negro College Fund, the Children's Diabetes Fund, St. Jude's Children's Hospital, and several AIDS-related organizations, and she established the Whitney Houston Foundation for Children, Inc., a nonprofit organization whose work assists homeless children and children with cancer and AIDS. One noncharitable appearance the diva was supposed to make was at "Blessing '97" on Nov. 29, 1997. The event, billed as the largest mass wedding ever, was to earn the diva a cool $1 million for 45 minutes onstage. But when the press seized upon the pending appearance for the Moonies (the controversial Unification Church started by Reverend Sun Myung Moon and his wife, Hak Ja Han Moon), Houston released a statement declaring that she didn't know "Blessing '97" was a Moonie affair. Two hours before the wedding began, she backed out citing "illness," leaving both the Moonies and her own band, which had already set up, in the lurch.[4]

records section

I started trying to copy-edit and wikify the following, but it's too obscure in places, and I'm not at all sure what was meant at times:

Records

Houston has held the record for the most consecutive number-one hits for a solo peformer for thirteen years.
Before Whitney, BOYS II MEN's record breaking "End of the Road" stayed at Number One for 13 weeks, 2 weeks later, Whitney's new song broke the record. (Boys II Men and Mariah Carey's duet broke Whitney's record for having 2 more weeks in 1996.) Althougn One Sweet Day stayed longest at Number One in US up to date, it could not reach number one outside US while the international hit "I will always love you" which occupied 14 weeks on Number One in the US, 10 weeks Number One on UK Singles Chart, 10 weeks Number One on Australia Singles Chart, 6 weeks on German Singles Chart, and 8 weeks on France Singles Chart. [[5]]
2) Whitney Houston also has been holding the most consecutive Number Two hit for 10 years up to date, as the release of "Exhale" became Number One for one week and was taken down by Boys II Men and Mariah Carey's collaboration duet "One Sweet Day" but remained at Number Two for 11 weeks.
3) Whitney Houston also has been holding the record for most consecutive Number One by beating Beatles and Elvis Presley and depose Madonna as Queen of Pop, as the GUINNESS WORLD RECORD described: "Her first number one in the US was with "Saving All My Love For You" - this was a prelude to a string of six more consecutive No. 1s that saw Houston depose Madonna as the queen of pop." [6]
Mogul music produceer Clive Davis earlier announced Whitney would be back since she got out from rehab in May this year and he said another release from Whitney will be in 2006 as they are currently working.

Any comments? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:03, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm also unclear what this means: "battling spousal abuse with her husband". Any translat--Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:05, 6 August 2005 (UTC)ions?

In the "records" list above, I think it needs to be reworded a bit. Essentially, Whitney Houston scored 7 consecutive #1 singles on the Billboard Hot 100 from 1985 to 1988 and this is a record which is still unbroken. As far as Whitney "depos(ing) Madonna as the Queen Of Pop" - I think this wording is too subjective and can be easily challenged. Guinness Book Of World Records has also widely reported that Madonna has sold far more albums worldwide than Whitney Houston has.

Whitney Houston's "Exhale" did spend the most weeks #2 of any single on the Billboard Hot 100 for about 10 years, but that has since been exceeded. I'm not even sure "Exhale" would count towards this record (the "longest-running #2 single") though since it actually peaked at #1. 02:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

"Exhale" would count as one of the longest running number two singles even though it hit number one, because it also landed in the number two position. And as far as Madonna selling more records than Whitney, that may be true but they are both over 120 million. It just took Madonna, and for that case, Mariah Carey far more album releases to reach that tally. So although Madonna and Mariah may have sold a few more million albums number-wise, Whitney is the bigger seller percentage-wise because she has less albums sitting in record bins than Madonna and Mariah had to release to get that total.

Discography

Please, stop changing The Bodyguard's worldwide sales to 30 million, it actually sold 37 million copies according to everyhit.co.uk (a very realiable website). Here's the link (the information can be found at the bottom of the page): http://www.everyhit.co.uk/recordalb.html

Top 10 Singles

Just to clean this up a bit, I notice that under the "Top 10 Singles" header there is far more than 10 singles! I have changed the title to "Top singles in date ascending order" as I have no idea as to which singles were most popular or not. I'll leave this for anyone else to improve - user:pa-merynaten 0036BST 21.5.2006

LOL, I'm pretty sure it means singles that made the top 10.

Oscars

Whitney Houston has never been nominated for or won an Academy Award. Pacian 22:25, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

- Well, she won the 1999 award for "Best Original Song" for When You Believe, but depending on if the award is given to the performer or songwriter, she may have won the award. Tdawgfive5six9 14:59, 11 September 2005 (UCT)

The Oscar for "Best Original Song" is given to the song's composer, not the performer. RobbieNomi 22:55, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Gay icons source

http://whitney-fan.com/nr/mags/039.shtml --RobbieNomi 22:55, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Fan pages are generally not accepted as credible or authoritative sources of information for encyclopedias. This article should remain removed from Category:Gay icons until something more substantial can be provided. Hall Monitor 23:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
This is a transcript of the May 2000 interview Houston had with Out magazine, a popular national gay publication. The fan page is simple reprinting it in its entirety. It is also a well known fact that Houston is an icon among the gay community as much as Madonna, Cher, Mariah Carey, and Diana Ross. But, if you absolutely MUST have more sources, here you go: [7] [8] (--RobbieNomi) 05:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
The references you have provided are appreciated, but I still fail how any of the citations you have linked suggest that this figure is a "gay icon". For example, if a musician such as Houston performs at a fundraiser or benefit for the gay and lesbian community, are they then considered to be an icon? What specific qualifications is Whitney Houston meeting in order to be defined as such? Hall Monitor 19:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Please note that the actual phrase "gay icon" is used before Houston's name.
FYI- The Advocate is the nation's #1 gay/lesbian news publication.

This should be enough evidence here to support the "icon" status. If you need more, note that Whitney Houston has scored 12 #1 hits on the Billboard Dance/Club Chart. Please refer to the Wikipedia article Billboard Dance/Club Play Chart about the Billboard Dance/Club Chart. The list of artists on there with the most #1 dance hits (of which Whitney Houston is included) is essentially a "who's who" of gay musical icons. 02:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

You Give Good Love

The article on this song has been nominated for deletion on 5 October 2005. As this is a notable single by Whitney Houston as her first hit, I would be grateful if contributors to this article and other Whitney Houston articles could have a look at the article that I have rewritten and add your view to the discussion. Capitalistroadster 10:55, 6 October 2005 (UTC)