Talk:White power skinhead

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[edit] Rename article?

Shouldn't the article be called Nazi Skinhead ? --Loading 4 July 2005 20:25 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Sam Spade 16:52, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
They do tend to be perceived as a group, not as a discrete number of individuals. Besides, there is no Nazi Skinhead style movement, separate and distinct from Skinhead itself; although recent developments suggest Nazi Skinheads are now prepared to permit entry to people who clearly are not skinheads at all for the sake of getting members.
Nuttyskin 06:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] idiots, fools and bigots

I removed the "They are idiots, fools and bigots." part since it is irrelevant and not neutral. --Anzuhan 14:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

good edit, you'll make a fine wikipedian. Sam Spade 16:52, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
However, you can say whatever you think here. My opinion is then the same as the removed statement. I don't understand how can an intellectual person can be so racist. I believe that you have to be dumb in at least one way in order to think that you are better than people of other races.
Hey, see that black person in the street? Let's all beat him to the point where he develops a neurological problem. He's not doing anything to hurt us; he hasn't even said anything. He is defenseless, and we are many. Let's all be cowards and beat him up together without giving him a chance! Remember why we hate him - he has a different skin color than us. This means that he is not a person, and we have the right to hurt him. To kill him.
You could have an increadible IQ, but if you believe that in doing such things or thinking in the same mentality you are creating a better world, you are indeed a fool, idiot, or bigot. BirdValiant 00:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Skinheads are different to Neo-Nazis

"In Germany these groups are often called "Kameradschaften", and are frequently associated with far right political parties like the NPD."

From the Verfassungsschutz report of 2004 it states that Kameradeschaften are groups of Neo-Nazis in Germany, NOT skinheads, and also that although skinheads do attend NPD rallies, the two groups like to keep their distance from one another - the skinheads disliking the organisation of the NPD and as the NPD are trying to give out a more intellectual image they mostly only want the skinheads present at their rallies to help make up numbers. Maybe someone could clear this up?- unsigned

        Look at the picture of the public protest on the page of the NPD . Most of them are Skinheads.

the link is: [1]—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.165.251.60 (talk) 15:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

  • First off, that link doesn't go to any photos when I click on it. Secondly, even if the photos worked, it doesn't answer the other person's question. Apparently you didn't read that person's comment closeley enough. Here it is again: "From the Verfassungsschutz report of 2004 it states that Kameradeschaften are groups of Neo-Nazis in Germany, NOT skinheads, and also that although skinheads do attend NPD rallies, the two groups like to keep their distance from one another - the skinheads disliking the organisation of the NPD and as the NPD are trying to give out a more intellectual image they mostly only want the skinheads present at their rallies to help make up numbers." It doesn't really matter now anyway, because the sentence about Kameradschaften was deleted from the Nazi skinhead article long ago.Spylab 19:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shaved heads

So, why do they do it? I pretty much came to check this article to learn why they shave their heads, and considering black people do this oftenly, I was curious to know why. Article didn't deliver, though.--Saoshyant talk / contribs (I don't like Wikipedophiles) 11:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

  • It's because they stole the image from real skinheads, who were in fact greatly influenced by black people, specifically West Indian immigrants to The United Kingdom. That's covered in the article, with the sentence that starts "Although the original skinhead subculture had heavy British Mod and Jamaican Rude boy influences — including a love for Ska and Soul music..." Spylab 12:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

They didn't "stole" that image. Apolitical skinheads are not "real" skinheads. I think the shaved head has somethink to do with working class culture. Many workers shaved their head (and they still do it), because they cannot work properly if they have long hair. There are no "bad" or "good" skinheads. The majority of skinheads are National Socialists, because National Socialism was appealing to British white working class in the 80s. Mitsos 10:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

  • It's already been demonstrated several times that almost everything you write about skinheads on Wikipedia is totally false, and is distorted by your neo-Nazi and Greek-centric agenda. Your post above merely continues this trend. Spylab 14:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Have you ever thought why out of all the youth subcultures, only the skinhead subculture was identified with National Socialism? Why not rockers, bikers or punks? Why skinheads? Just think about it, before you say that "everything I write about skinheads on Wikipedia is totally false" Mitsos 20:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

  • The following subcultures have also had significant numbers of people involved with white power or neo-Nazism: Rednecks, Teddy Boys, Greasers, Bikers, Nazi Punks, Metalheads (especially Black Metal fans), Hardcore fans, Gabbers, Casuals and even certain segments of the Goth scene. Why the media focusses on skinheads, I'm not totally sure. People in the mainstream media are sometimes prejudiced and lazy when it comes to subcultures. I've even seen the media label long-haired neo-Nazis as skinheads, when it's obvious that the person has nothing to do with the skinhead culture.Spylab 22:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It's not the media focussing on skinheads, the skinhead subculture is dominated by "neo-Nazis". The other subcultures have "significant numbers" of National Socialists, but they cannot be compared with the number of Nazi-Skins. 80% of skinheads are National Socialists. Mitsos 09:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

  • That's not true, and it's not backed up by any reliable source. There is no accurate collection of worldwide statistics outlining the various political beliefs of skinheads, but I can guarantee that there's no way that 80% of skinheads are Nazis. Just because someone has short hair and calls himself a skinhead (or gets called a skinhead by the authorities or groups like the Anti-Defamation League) doesn't mean he is actually a skinhead. There's a lot more to it.Spylab 14:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

"Just because someone has short hair and calls himself a skinhead (or gets called a skinhead by the authorities or groups like the Anti-Defamation League) doesn't mean he is actually a skinhead. There's a lot more to it." What more??? Mitsos 14:50, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccurate & uncited claims that keep being re-added

An anonymous IP user keeps entering innacurate and uncited claims to a sentence, and I will keep deleting them because they don't belong in an encyclopedic article. The sentence is as follows, and I will explain what is wrong about the bolded part:

The movement continued to grow in the 1990s, and it may still be expanding in the 2000s, partly due to revenue invested in promoting the music, style, and culture to young white nationalist males and the changing demographics of most predominantly white countries.

First,adding that phrase to the sentence doesn't make grammatical sense in English. Second, neo-Nazis don't only try to recruit people who are already white nationalists; they try to recruit any white people they think can be convinced that their movement's views are correct. Third, they don't only target males for recruitment. There has been significant recruitment attempts aimed at females. Fourth, there is no proof that the movement may be expanding due to "the changing demographics of most predominantly white countries." In some cases, neo-Nazis are successful in recruiting in areas where there is no significant demographic change. In fact, there is no reference proving that the Nazi skinhead scene is expanding, or that the movement grew in the 1990s, so perhaps the whole sentence should be deleted. Spylab 00:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

You contradicted yourself, you are always the first to stress that skinheads and Nazis are not the same thing. However when it is convenient for you, your stance seems to change.-unsigned
  • Please explain how and where I contradicted myself. Also, please sign up for a Wikpedia account and sign all of your comments. Spylab 20:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


  • The comment regarding 'Black Skinheads' taking part in racist attacks against Asians also needs to be deleated. Neither link provided show any proof that black people took part in racist attacks on Asians this is nothing more than a myth that has come about in recent years to justify racisms of Skinheads during the 70s and 80s. Just becasue someone 'says' that it happpened (as the one link in Skinhead nation does) Does not mean that it is fact. This needs to be removed and people realy need to stop this revisionist history nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.204.191.184 (talk) 00:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
  • That sentence is backed up by two references, with quotes from people who had first-hand experience. That sentence is not meant to justify anything or promote a point of view; just report the facts.Spylab 18:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Germany and Lonsdale

I added a sentence about Nazi skinheads in Germany wearing Lonsdale clothing, as it contains the NSDA initials. I have a source too (there's loads, take your pick from a google search), but I don't know how to add it in. The website is http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article352747.ece. I hope you find this a useful addition to the article. jaspar.casey 18:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


One thing about all this is obvious. The Middle Class rich kids do not understand the first thing about poor white people. This can be said of all such debates. But all I'm here to add is the style and clothing section is a load of crap. Judging people on appearances is dangerous -In fact that may well be the SUBJECT of this debate in the first place. Being careless and making blanket statements about people is exactly the sort of ironic bullshit I have grown to expect from the Antifa. here I'll just say:

-All skinheads have a grade 0/bald haircut. -Most people these days wear T-shirts. -Most people these days wear jeans -also, shaving your head is not "mod-influenced". It's just shaving your head. and as for this:

many Nazi skinheads do not wear braces

-WTF?!! When was the last time you saw ANYBODY wearing braces?!! I mean, do You wear braces? If not, presumably you're a "White Power Skinhead". By this definition I expect Mahatma Ghandi is a white power skinhead too. Maybe the high boots and Lonsdale in Combination is a possible sign. otherwise this is typical Antifa idiocy. good point about black skinheads too.

-Masculine, 25 November

  • It looks like you missed the point that the description of their clothing and hairstyle is in contrast to mod-influenced 1960s-style traditional skinheads, not in contrast to the general public. As for your accusations about who wrote that section, you are way off. Most of that section was written by a neo-Nazi from Montreal, not an anti-fascist. Anyway, I have copy edited the section to take some of your points into account. However, you are incorrect about all skinheads cropping their hair to grade 0 length. Also, many traditional skinheads do wear braces; perhaps not every day, but at least when they go out at night to social gatherings.Spylab (talk) 16:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, well some points you make may change it a bit. That you're not comparing with the general public could have been made a lot clearer. But if that is the case about the Montreal guy, I stand corrected on that. The phenomenon of the rich not understanding poor males still stands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.81.209 (talk) 08:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revoultionary group

There has been a dispute as to whether or not the Nazi skinheads are revolutionary. I think that it is quite obvious that they are because a revolutionary movement is one that wants to overthrow the establishment and the Nazi skins certainly seem to fit. They are arguably the most anti-establishment of all sub-cultures, have a reputation for violence and the most popular sites among nazi skins are ardently nazi sites with names like Resist.com and Overthrow.com. -unsigned

  • Just because you have those opinions does not mean they are necessarily true. Wikipedia is about presenting accurate facts backed up by reliable sources. Also, not all neo-Nazi or white power websites or organizations have participants who are Nazi skinheads. This is not an article on neo-Nazism in general. Spylab 12:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Spylab, you say that it is not necessarily true but you fail to provide any arguments regarding why (Nazi)skinheads are not. (Nazi)skinheads are in fact a denomination of Nazis. Either refute what he wrote or I will add it. If you erase it, that would be vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.203.22.162 (talk) 20:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC).
  • You obviously do not understand the concept of onus of proof. It is your responsibility to back up your claim on Wikipedia with reliable sources. It is not my responsibility to disprove your claim. If I delete uncited opinions on Wikipedia that is not vandalism. I suggest you familiarize yourself with Wikipedia guidelines and not throw around accusations without merit. Spylab 22:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I understand it perfectly. You merely need to look at the wikipedia page of revolutionary and you will see that a revolutionary is someone who supports abrupt,radical change. Nazi skinheads are deeply political and are anti-establishment to the point that just promoting their ideas is illegal in most white countries. The concept of bio-egalitarianism is so deeply ingrained in western countries that transforming them into Nazi, racist countries would be as abrupt and radical as any change that I can think of. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.203.22.162 (talk) 14:01, 7 April 2007 (UTC).
  • That is your personal opinion, not documented fact. Wikipedia is for presenting accurate facts backed up by reliable sources. Spylab 14:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Facts backed up by solid arguments. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.203.22.162 (talk) 15:20, 7 April 2007 (UTC).
  • That's your personal opinion, not documented fact. I suggest you familiarize yourself with Wikipedia guidelines such as Wikipedia:Attribution. Spylab 18:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
If the subculture conforms to the wikipedia definition of revolutionary, it should be attributed as such. For some reason it only seems that you do not want to acknowledge the fact that they are rebels and are endeavoring to inhibit this with trivial technicalities.-unsigned

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a publisher of original thought. The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source, not whether it is true. Wikipedia is not the place to publish your opinions, experiences, or arguments.

Also, please sign up for a Wikipedia account and sign all of your comments. Spylab 20:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

The information on the wikipedia page of revolutionary is comprised of material that meets the quality standards of wikipedia. If a certain subculture like Nazi skinhead fits into its definition, then it is appropriate for it to be added. You do not have a suffiecient basis to be obstinate so please stop.EuropeanLynx 16:44, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
  • A reliable source is needed to support the claim that Nazi skinheads are revolutionary. Until that reliable source is provided, it is merely personal opinion, not fact.Spylab 22:58, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Also a page number is needed for the cite, not just a name of the book. Until it's properly cited, it will be removed. One Night In Hackney303 00:24, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Please note that nowhere in the Nazism, Neo-Nazism, Fascism, Neo-fascism or related articles are the followers of those ideologies described as "revolutionary." Since the term doesn't apply in those articles, there doesn't seem to be any justification for including it in this one, especially without a specific reference. Spylab 02:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black skinheads?

This is not proven by the references and is obviously one of the long list of endeavors by Spylab to impose his leftist and/or pro-ethnic agenda. One reference regarding this does not even work and the other which is from skinheadnation(a blatantly non-neutral source) there is not a single mention about negro skinheads. I suggest that he discontinues his childish vandalism edits.

There you go. I would suggest you desist with your disruptive edits to remove the fact that the entire skinhead scene was heavily influenced by black culture, and your use of extremist sources to push your POV. One Night In Hackney303 20:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I am not denying the fact that negroes and their style of music was appreciated and influenced many original skins but to say that the entire subculture was inflenced by them is non-factual. As early as 1970 there were skinheads that were involved in the national front and that is a party that wants to deport all Negoroes, Muslims, Hindus etc.., As I wrote before, skinheads began as a working-class subculture and then diverged into different views and identities. Skinheads who appreciate Ska and Reggae are nothing more but an offshoot like Nazi skinheads. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.201.17.56 (talk) 20:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC).
  • Yes, I see that unfortunately the Trojan Records article link is down, but that interview confirmed that some black skinheads took part in Paki-bashing. If you are seriously suggesting that black skinheads have not existed since the beginning of the skinhead subculture, then you are sorely mistaken. This is a fact documented by several sources and photos. Here is the quote from Skinhead Nation, one of the most neutral sources on skinheads ever):

Paki-bashing was as much a cultural issue as it was a race one, if not more so. The first generation of Asian immigrants were different - they didn’t try to integrate, they kept themselves to themselves, some couldn’t even speak the language, and of course, they were easy targets because they didn’t fight back. It was a culture clash that led to them being singled out as easy targets, and it wasn’t just skinheads or even born and bred British white working class kids doing the bashing. Black kids were at it too as were the Greeks and other minorities who had done more to adapt to the British way of life. Even more to the point, some of the blacks involved in paki-bashing were fully fledged skinheads themselves.

Please note that Wikipedia is not a soapbox for you to whitewash history and spread a neo-Nazi agenda. Spylab 20:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

And just in case the Trojan Records interview page disappears again, here's the relevant excerpt:

  • Hello Monty,
The skinhead cult as we know it today is split down the middle, some of the skins are driven by racial prejudice whilst others are just in for the music and clothes. What can you remember about the early days of the skinheads and could you clarify the involvement of Black skinheads in populating the cult because we are constantly told by the far right that it was a white working class cult, something I don't agree with myself. Dale
  • Irie Dale ! To be honest, I don't remember every detail. But there were Skins causing racial problems, like what they called "Paki-bashing". They would go after the Pakistanis, because they considered them weak because they would not fight back. And of course you had those only in it for the fashion. There were definitely black Skinheads- "Caleb", the boss, for example.

Well that's that. Spylab 21:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for admin to correct link

{{editprotected}} The reference http://www.trojanrecords.net/articles/monty2.htm in the sentence "However, some skinheads (including black skinheads) had engaged in Paki bashing (random violence against Pakistanis and other South Asian immigrants).[1][2]" is down but can be found at http://web.archive.org/web/20050929223759/http://www.trojanrecords.net/articles/monty2.htm It is an important and relevant reference, as the above discussion topic shows. Spylab 21:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

This can be corrected once the protection is removed; I don't see any reason to hurry into it. CMummert · talk 03:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] White Power nor Neo-Nazi

Shouldn't this statement be merged? As far as I know White Power and Nazism are synonymous. -unsigned.

  • They aren't necessarily synonymous. It's possible to support white power but not support Nazism. Also, if you look at the list of groups in the neo-Nazism article, you will see groups from Japan, Taiwan and Iran. Most white power supporters wouldn't call Japanese and Taiwanese people white, and there is probably some disagreement among white power supporters whether Iranians are considered white people. Spylab 14:26, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New title

I changed the title of this article to White power skinhead because the other title was too specific. Not all white power skinheads are Nazis, but most Nazi skinheads are white power (the only exceptions being non-whites who support Nazism).Spylab 21:19, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reason for refimprove tag

I restored the refimprove tag because most of the sentences that are specifically about white power skinheads are not backed up any references. Most of the footnotes are for sentences about non-political or anti-racist skinheads, to show the contrast between them and the political racist skinheads. Spylab (talk) 17:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Far Right?

How is calling Nazis far right NPOV? This implies that the more conservative you get, the more Nazi you get. That is ridiculous. It isn't like Nazi Germany was Laissez-faire capitalist or anything. They were fascists, had state-owned businesses, social programs, etc. They were totally authoritarian, generally not considered very right-wing. White power skinheads also hate Israel, definately alienating them from the right-wing. These two words are an extreme insult to conservatism.-unsigned by Mister Magotchi

  • Far right is a commonly used term to describe Nazis and fascists. You should take your questions and concerns to the far right article and talk page, not here. Spylab (talk) 20:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)