Talk:White phosphorus use in Iraq

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1 Title
2 Once upon a time there was a wise nation
3 Authoritative sources
4 Two Italian documentary films with the same name?

[edit] Title

I would like to see an article "White Phosphorous use in the Second World War".

If we do it like this one, we can fill like 80 or 90 pages.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.202.212.4 (talk • contribs) 00:52, June 14, 2006

agree

I wonder why there is not articles as "WP in IIWW", "WP in IWW", "WP in Korea War", "WP in Vietnam War", "WP in I Gulf War", etc..—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.202.165.175 (talk • contribs) 11:49, August 22, 2006

If you want to create one, go ahead. AndrewRT - Talk 20:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is this a controversy. Our military has to do what it's gotta do to get rid of terrorists.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.243.176.90 (talk • contribs)

Sure, and you must be a sissy to object to war crimes in these situations. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 08:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Here's a mangled version of a Chinese proverb. There's a village with a hundred rebels. You ride in with your troops, smoke out all hundred, hunt them down and hang them all. How many rebels are there in the village at the day's end? Answer: Two hundred. --Kizor 09:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Once upon a time there was a wise nation

Once upon a time there was a wise nation, and the President's wife (largely) wrote the following:

http://www.udhr.org/UDHR/default.htm

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in cooperation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, therefore, The General Assembly proclaims

This Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

(can you believe it, this was done well within living memory!) PalestineRemembered 18:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Authoritative sources

There may well have been highly inappropriate use of weapons. Some of the news reports cited here, however, do not identify the source, or the source's qualifications to speak authoritatively about the areas affected by weapons, or the nature of wounds, or the long-term effects of chemicals. Before editing in yet another news item, or statement by a potentially biased source (pro- or anti-US), may I suggest that such things as technical manuals and medical trauma references might be more credible? Howard C. Berkowitz 17:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two Italian documentary films with the same name?

In the documentary "Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre", aired on the Italian state television network RAI, an unidentified former soldier testified "I saw the burned bodies of women and children. The phosphorus explodes and forms a plume. Who ever is within a 150 metre radius has no hope." ("Did the U.S. military use chemical weapons in Iraq?", The Christian Science Monitor, 2005-11-08. ) ("Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre" on the U.S. Use of Napalm-Like White Phosphorus Bombs", DemocracyNow.Org, 2005-11-08. ) (fallujah_ING (WMV). Rainews24.rai.it.) The U.S. State department first dismissed such claims, ("Did the U.S. Use "Illegal" Weapons in Fallujah?", U.S. Department of State, 2004-11-12. ) but was later corrected in other reports. Lt Col Barry Venable stated to the BBC, "it is an incendiary weapon and may be used against enemy combatants." According to Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW), which the United States has not ratified and thus is not governed by, white phosphorus can be used, but only against enemy combatants and not civilians. ("US used white phosphorus in Iraq", BBC, 2005-11-16. ) The Independent later reported that "there remain widespread reports of civilians suffering extensive burn injuries. While U.S. commanders insist they always strive to avoid civilian casualties, the story of the battle of Fallujah highlights the intrinsic difficulty of such an endeavour." ("The Fog of War: White Phosphorus, Fallujah and Some Burning Questions", CommonDreams.Org, 2005-11-15. )

I have moved the above from the article section First major assault on Fallujah to here because AFAICT it is the same documentary as the one as used in the section Second major assault on Fallujah. The dates on many of the other sources are also from the end of 2005 which suggest that they are referring to the second assault. (The one paper that is dated 2004 "Did the U.S. Use "Illegal" Weapons in Fallujah?" is a misdated the document says "created: 09 Dec 2004 Updated: 10 Nov 2005"). --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 19:55, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, as to the above, I'm bothered by things that treat an "unidentified former soldier" as authoritative. I'll have to find some military references to get burst radii, but 150 meter lethal radius for WP strikes me as awfully large, even from a 155mm howitzer round. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 20:52, 3 January 2008 (UTC)