Talk:White Castle (restaurant)

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[edit] Public vs. Private

The text says WC is privately held, but the inset says it is public.

Fixed. --Slyder PilotE@ 14:00, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Black Shack?

Is that comment about Black Shack encyclopedic? Do many people really call it that? I don't know one way or the other, but it seems questionable. ike9898 03:09, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

It was common among my friends in Washington DC to refer to it as "Black Shack" or "The Crack Shack" because the White Tassle nearest where we were was in a shady predominantly black neighborhood. I have heard it so referred to by friends from Philadelphia, Miami, and in San Francisco. While I am not the original adder of the phrase, from my personal experience this is a common usage.  ALKIVAR™ 03:39, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
In and around Chicago, they're as common as MacDonalds and they're all kinds of neighborhoods. I grew up in Hasbrouck Heights, which had a White Castle. Not exactly shady. I've also never heard the expression. Tim 02:04, Jan 7, 2006
I deleted the paragraph. It was entirely PoV, and unless you can verify its claim, it shouldn't be in this article. --204.152.176.70 20:00, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm with the anon user - probable violation of all three core content policies. | Klaw ¡digame! 20:19, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

It is not "POV" to include various names people use for WC. And people really do use the term "Black Shack". I don't like the term, and you may not either, but deleting it from WP simply because you don't like it is not OK. Jonathunder 21:21, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

It's not that I don't like it. I can care less, personally. But it is unverifiable, other than "my friends call it this" or "I once heard someone say". Also, show me a marketing demographics report that conclusively proves that White Castle restaurants are more prevalent in inner-cities over rural or suburban markets. Back up this paragraph with verifiable facts, otherwise I'll keep reverting it. And despite what you say, it is "PoV" to make broad generalizations while not backing it up with verifiable proof. --204.152.176.70 21:27, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with anon here. Can we locate some sources that would mention this nickname for WC? I'm thinking of the parallel case for calling McDonald's, Mickey D's. Here is an example of what might support the nickname [1] (article formatting a bit weird, but you get the idea). Image:Monkeyman.pngMonkeyman(talk) 22:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I've lived in and visited several WC regions (St. Louis, Twin Cities, Chicago, New Jersey, Ohio) and have never heard of anyone refer to it as such. Additionally, I've seen many WCs in traditionally "white" communities. --Slyder PilotE@ 14:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Porcelain Palace

How is this comment the first thing in the entry? Only 237 Google hits for the phrase and I've never heard it before. - Tim 02:04, Jan 7, 2006

[edit] Locations

I have changed the "locations" list to states. The source is a pull down location finder menu at the White Castle website. Unfortunately, it does not list all of the locations. For example, the only area listed in Kentucky is Louisville. I know there is White Castle in Lexington; see Google Maps or White Castle's website. I have eaten there many times. Lamont A Cranston 23:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of link to user page

I removed the link to the user page, because it seems like a self reference and it may also be a conflict of interest. Articles in the encyclopedia should not give undue weight to topics or users related to Wikipedia. Khatru2 23:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Readded username but left out link to user's page. --Slyder PilotE@ 04:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I disagree with the inclusion of the username. The point I was trying to make earlier is that Wikipedians shouldn't be mentioned in articles solely because the article is on Wikipedia. Unless a source can be cited that shows that you are a particularly notable member of this hall of fame, I think the line should be removed. Khatru2 04:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
When WC updates their Hall of Fame page, I will provide you with said citation. --Slyder PilotE@ 12:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
It's still not notable. Unless you are going to provide a list of all winners (which I'm sure nobody here will accept), then why your mention over everyone else? There's no reason. The notability for mention here is extremely low. I don't doubt you wrote a good story, but to include you (and the rest of the winners to make it neutral) is like including a list of colouring contest winners on the article for any company, organization, or municipality that set up a contest. The name can't stay. Sorry. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 13:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Then why have a mention of the Hall of Fame at all if someone being inducted is not notable? If there were some mention of the Pro Football Hall of Fame somewhere on Wikipedia, would you still argue against listing those inductees? And consequently, just because White Castle hasn't updated their website means it's not notable? --Slyder PilotE@ 13:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think it's notable at all—it's fine by me if someone wants to remove the mention of the hall of fame. Whether the website is updated or not is also irrelevant. As for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, inductees into that would be the best of the best players in a very notable professional sport. They are also all notable enough for their own articles. You, on the other hand, won what is essentially a corporate promotional contest. The "hall of fame" contest is not really notable, and your winning it is certainly not notable. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 15:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
It's taken seriously enough at the corporate office that they have plaques up around the office that honor the inductees and the fact that they update their company website and keep the information there for years on end to reflect that should be notable enough, even if it is a corporate promotional contest. Some companies may add that information and then take it down later, but WC takes its "hard core" fans serious enough to even have a Hall of Fame and display that forever. So think of it what you will, but the company takes it seriously. --Slyder PilotE@ 16:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
No, I'm afraid that still really doesn't make it notable enough for an encyclopedia (and the Hall of Fame really doesn't do anything but "commemorate" interesting stories, any number of which could be complete fabrications (like Penthouse Letters). └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 16:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
If something the company actually does isn't notable enough for an article about that company, then why should we have references to a fictional movie about the company or songs about the company in that article, neither of which the company produced? --Slyder PilotE@ 17:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, the movie and bands are notable on their own terms (they have articles), although the bands' mention of White Castle is stretching notability (at least the most recent addition—the Beastie Boys mention White Castle in like every second freakin' song). I'm not saying the hall of fame is absolutely non-notable, it's pretty non-notable, though. It's not a real problem to keep it, but a list of "inductees" (or a mention of a single "inductee") goes way further than giving it the attention it deserves. The hall of fame would not warrant its own article, and the winners of the contest that it really is certainly do not deserve mention. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 19:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not a single chain store in the state?

Referring to Kansas, apparently, the article states:

To this day, there is not one single chain store in the state.

What is that supposed to mean? Surely it can't mean that there are no chain store outlets in the entire state of Kansas. Acsenray 20:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it was attempting to simply say that there aren't any White Castles there. It's fixed now. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 20:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] franchise

hello my name is jasmine robinson and i am very intersted in opening a white castle please send me more info on buying my own franchise —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.169.15.18 (talk) 15:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

For what it's worth, taken from the White Castle page, "White Castle does not franchise in the United States. All stores are company owned and operated.". In case anyone else was really interested :-D -- Borameer ™ 18:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Upper Darby location

Is there any support for the claim that there was a White Castle in Upper Darby, PA that is now an Asian food restaurant? There is an Asian restaurant adjacent to the trolley yard west of 69th Street Station. I ate there in the '70's, and it's previous incarnation wasn't a White Castle--it was actually a White Tower.Meersman 01:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Quick google results re: Upper Darby location:

"What's the name of the Korean snack shop in the old White Tower across from the trolley tracks?...[http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=85088&st=0

And, a photo of the location. "You can see the former white tower lettering." [2]

I took the liberty of deleting the reference on the article. If anyone has any other info, they can revert.Meersman 01:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Ugly Betty "White Tassel/White Tassle"

Ref. the episode titled "Swag", should this go somewhere in the trivia section? And does anyone know which spelling of Tassle/el is correct? --80.43.117.195 16:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original size of the burgers?

When White Castle first came out with their 5 cent burgers. they were much larger. Anyone know how large?


[edit] Steam grilling unique?

Steam grilling cannot be called unique as Krystal also steam grills their burgers. Bravenav 05:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

If it says unique only to White Castle, then you have a case. Since very few restaurants steam grill their burgers (White Castle of course doing it before Krystal), it is unique. --Slyder Pilot 23:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, Unique means "one of a kind", not "rare".
Went to Google and did define:unique and one of the definitions was "highly unusual or rare but not the single instance; 'spoke with a unique accent'; 'had unique ability in raising funds'; 'a frankness unique in literature'; 'a unique dining experience'" --Slyder Pilot 14:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia section

Removed trivia section. The "cultural references" section needs to go, but I've just removed the trivia for now. It follows below for anyone who'd like to find a place for certain facts within the body of the article (they'd need sourcing, however):

  • Until World War II, all employees were male. Labor shortages during the war forced White Castle to hire women.
  • The famous five holes were originally created by accident. A hamburger was accidentally broken up at restaurant in Cincinnati and it was discovered this was a faster way to cook them.
  • Nicknames of the restaurants include "Slider City", "The Porcelain Palace", and "The WC Lounge".
  • White Castle closed its original stores in Kansas in 1938, and attempted a failed return to Kansas in the 1990s. To this day there is not a single White Castle restaurant in the state. In fact, as noted below under "locations", the chain's extent is strictly limited to the eastern/southeastern sections of the Midwest and portions of the Upper South, with the major exception being the greater New York area.
  • Although most closed restaurants have been torn down, a few -- for example, one in Minneapolis, Minnesota, converted into a jewelry store, and one in Cambridge, Massachusetts which is now a falafel restaurant -- still remain standing as examples.
  • Some nicknames of the burgers are Greaseburgers, Fartburgers, and Sliders. They are also known as Belly Bombers in certain areas (such as St. Louis).
  • White Castle was the inspiration for the novel White Palace by the late Glenn Savan, who lived in St. Louis.
  • West Castle was a copy of White Castle in southern California in the early 1980s. The patties lacked the five holes that White Castle patties have.

Lexicon (talk) 14:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The Beastie Boys lyric is "White Castle fries only come in one size," which used to be the case. The full song, Slow and Low, was an early gift of Run DMC to the Beastie Boys, but the lyric "D sees real good 'cause he's got 4 eyes" had to be changed. Source: Beastie Boys Anthology disc liner notes.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:White Castle classic logo.png

Image:White Castle classic logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 05:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WCFC

Here's a page online that references us: http://www.killuglyradio.com/hot-poop/2003/02/20/fast-fast Also, if you contact White Castle's home office, they will probably have a backlog of their company newsletter and could probably send you the one where WCFC was mentioned in it. They also had a celebration for the WCFC that included the regional manager, the general manager at that location and members from the home office. They also presented the Fan Club with a plaque for their "continued pursuit of 'The Crave'." Now, if the Fan Club is receiving plaques from the home office and is in their newsletter, would it be something that's not notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slyder Pilot (talk • contribs) 16:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I still say this is not even remotely notable. Should a Paris Hilton fan club be noted on her page, even if it had received a letter from her? Should every person in their "Hall of Fame" be noted? It doesn't contribute at all to the article or to the reader's knowledge about White Castle. Even if you could somehow argue that it was notable, how can you possibly justify including things like the club's meeting time? I removed the entire section, feel free to discuss further. - Shadowsill (talk) 21:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Email from White Castle about Kansas City Locations

This morning I got my response concerning when White Castles existed in the Kansas City Area. According to it they had existed twice once when the chain was new and more recently from 1985-2001. In the email they referenced some books in there that may be used for research and soruces for this article.

Dear sawblade05:

Thank you for your recent inquiry directed to the corporate office regarding locations in the Kansas City metropolitan area. We appreciate hearing from people who enjoy White Castle and its products. We did have several locations in the Kansas City area from 1987-2001. White Castle was founded in Wichita, Kansas in 1921 and we opened stores in Kansas City in 1924. We were forced to leave the market in 1943 due to the Great Depression and World War II shortages. White Castle again entered the market in 1985, but we were never able to get a firm niche in the community against all the established competition. It became evident that we would not be able to make our participation profitable in this area, so we were again forced to pull out our stores for financial reasons.

White Castle prides itself on growing slowly. We do not franchise any of our restaurants in the United States. Domestically, our restaurants and market expansion are financed from retained earnings. White Castle believes in this business practice so we can provide a stable company for our 12,000-plue employees. Each year we do add approximately fifteen to twenty new restaurants spread throughout our existing market areas. Based on our current expansion plans, it will be a few years before we open another new market area.

For further information you might wish to consult Selling 'em by the Sack: White Castle and the Creations of American Food by David Gerard Hogan, New York University Press, 1997. Or "White Castle: Billy Ingram's Burger," Timeline: A publication of the Ohio Historical Society March/April 1999; pp. 2-19, 56-57 also by David g. Hogan.

Thank you again for your interest in and patronage of White Castle.

Sincerely, Elizabeth Ingram Vice President of Restaurant Operations

Now form my WP:OR Reasearch on this I have believed the 2nd run of White Castles on the Kansas side was from 1987-2001. I can confirm the 2001 closers per the reliable source at [ http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2001/05/07/tidbits.html http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2001/05/07/tidbits.html], that source also confirms the Church's locations being in with them. In my opinion when White Castle left Kansas City, I had thought they were no more, eaten alive by our other Hamburger chains like Winstead's, Burger King, or McDonalds. Anyway a Google Search can turn up some good sources for White Castle using some of the above terms from my Email I got. Sawblade05 (talk to me | my wiki life) 14:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Selling 'em by the Sack is a good read; I suggest you read it. --Slyder Pilot 23:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Whitecastle.gif

Image:Whitecastle.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Nicknames

People keep adding their own personal nicknames for the burgers into the article, please use sources. Every neighborhood or group of friends has a nickname for these things. This is an encyclopedia however, so do not add unsourced material. Gamer83 18:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Whitecastle.gif

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BetacommandBot 20:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Whitecastle.gif

Image:Whitecastle.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:WhiteCastleCheeseburgerbox.png

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Whitecastle.gif

Image:Whitecastle.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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(UTC)


[edit] Pop Culture Section

Is almost entirely a list of commercial products, the only reason to include these here is promotion and viral marketing. It's spam, and it's blatant.