Talk:Wheel of Fortune (US game show)

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[edit] Returning champions and "Friday Finals"

During what season were the Friday Finals played? With this format, the week's top three winners returned on Friday to play the game again. Also, someone might want to include the seasons prior to this format, during which champions could return for up to three days. --Goldrushcavi

Reply to above: The "returning champions" rule was used from 1989 at CBS Television City to 1996 at Sony Pictures Studios. The "Friday Finals" rule was in place from fall 1996 to about fall 1997 at Sony Pictures Studios. -- D.F. Williams

[edit] Trimming

This is just my opinion, but using the section on "Puzzle Boards" as an example, I have made substantial edits down to the essential information. I think this should carry forward to the rest of the sections, but I don't feel I should be that bold yet. Here is a summary of the section changes.—Twigboy (talk) 06:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, and the whole article needs a good trimming. It has a lot of crufty stuff and seeming OR that belongs on a wikia or maybe a game show wiki, but does not fit in here. Collectonian (talk) 07:08, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cruftiness

This article has quite a bit of fancruft in it that needs to be cleaned out. Every detail of the show's game play history is not significant, while an actual history on the production of the game, is completely missing. The entire game play section is beyond excessive. Nineteen sections to give a basic overview of how a simply game show works? The game play section needs to likened to the plot or synopsis section of a fictional program, and limited to a brief overview. The entire retired elements section should come out if none if it can be sourced. The stats seem very OR as they are unsourced. The home versions can be shortened into a purely prose merchandise section.

The Wheel's configuration? That is pure cruft and purely unsourced original research. I've AfDed Wheel of Fortune (The wheel's configuration). "The Wheel" section is more than sufficient for discussing the wheel, and at best, verifiable, sourced summary of the wheel configuration is all that is needed. Ditto List of Wheel of Fortune puzzle categories, which is completely unsourced and unlikely to be able to be well-sourced or wholly accurate as they are not given significant coverage in reliable sources and it has remained unsourced since at least July of 2007.

Notable changes? Who decided they were notable? Where is the sourcing? Theme music should move to an actual production details section and converted to prose. It should be joined by the "Episode status" section, and the sets content. The article is already tagged for having an excessive number of non-free images and I'd have to agree. I'd say six of those images can come out without having any negative affect on the article. Collectonian (talk) 17:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

We do have a contributor who's a bit enthusiastic about adding images he finds on the Web without much consideration for fair use policies. We've been trying to pare those down as well. The history of the production of the game is found on the companion page about the original daytime version -- Wheel of Fortune (US daytime game show). About a week ago, I started to try to figure out how much of the historical information in this article can be moved over to that page and have the daytime show page reformatted as a page on the history of the show. I haven't had time to work on that lately. JTRH (talk) 17:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm...any particular reason the two are kept separate, other than this one being for the night version and that for the day? Beyond that are they the same show? Collectonian (talk) 17:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Originally, the main show article kept going back and forth between the current (nighttime) show and the daytime version which left the air in 1991. The two shows had a fair number of significant differences. Moving the material on the daytime show to a separate page made the main article flow a lot better. And I would submit that the daytime show merits its own page because it was a popular and successful TV show for 16 years. There are plenty of articles about historical TV shows on Wikipedia. As you can see, most of the material we're discussing has been spun off from the main show article for one reason or another. JTRH (talk) 17:39, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
They yeah, separate is fine, though it also needs some cruft cutting at least it does have an actual history/production section. :) Where there is shared history, it can probably be copied over here as well. For the spin-off articles, like the two I AfDed...the problem is that they were spun-off when really, it probably should have just been removed all together. Collectonian (talk) 18:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copy edit 2/20/08

I've spent the afternoon brutally whacking about 8 KB off the article. I've removed a lot of information about things that are not current practice on the show, as well as things that wouldn't be verifiable without watching a couple of hundred episodes in someone's spare time (not mine). I'm not through yet. I haven't gotten all the way down the page. As it stands now, the gameplay description is very straightforward and literal. I've removed all references to strategy and historical data from those sections. I'm really sorry if I've brutalized anyone's work or removed anything someone thinks is truly important to the show, but if you look at the number of issues people have noted at the top of the article page (length, notability, sourcing, objectivity, etc., etc.), as well as the fact that two of the sub-articles have been nominated for AfD, somebody had to do something quickly. Please discuss here before reverting or re-inserting something you think I shouldn't have taken out. Thanks. JTRH (talk) 21:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

PS: To address concerns about WP:OR, I've boiled most of the material discussed above down to a set of descriptions which are verifiable by watching the show, since I doubt anyone's ever published an academic journal article about the strategy behind buying a vowel. In other words, that's as far as we can go to address the sourcing issue. JTRH (talk) 21:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
So far so good :) One thing I just noticed...there are several references for "wheeloffortune.com" which are not linked. These need to be converted to real references, with an an actual link to the page with the information being sourced. Do you know which pages go with which source? Collectonian (talk) 00:58, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, those need work. I'm not sure exactly where the info is on the WoF site, but finding it and making the references more specific is on the to-do list. JTRH (talk) 01:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, folks, the article is now down to just over half its previous length. Most of it is straight narrative description. I haven't yet touched the "Notable Changes" section, which is the biggest remaining element. I made the suggestion (seen above) a while ago that maybe that could be folded into the daytime show article, and that one re-formatted as a piece on the history of the show (including the daytime version). I don't want to do anything that drastic without some input from other editors. I've whacked enough for one day. What do others think? JTRH (talk) 02:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion Re-add the historical data to the Daytime show page, rename to History of Wheel of Fortune. DJBullfish 17:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
That's what I have in mind, but I haven't had a chance to work on that one yet. Of course, as the discussion a few topics above indicates, there's always a possibility of that one becoming as overgrown as this one was. I'm not putting everything back if it goes in the daytime article. After a great deal of serious consideration, I decided that Wikipedia doesn't need to include a description of the color of the Free Spin token used prior to 1989, or the year when the now-outdated eggcrate displays expanded from six to seven characters. Of course, someone out there's probably going to either argue the point, or just re-insert. JTRH (talk) 22:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Free Images

I've replaced the non-free image tag, as the article still has too many. I realized, though, I said see talk but this was said on my talk page not here, so I'm putting this here as well. First, of course, see WP:NONFREE for the guidelines on non-free image use. The basic guidelines, from my experiences in having to address it, is that as few non-free images as possible should be used, and when used they should be limited to only those absolutely necessary for illustrating a section of text. My initial opinion would be to remove the image of Pat and Vanna (from what I've seen, non-free images of living people are almost always considered unnecessary see there are free alternatives available). Ditto the image of contestants row. Most of the wheel images are unneeded, as it isn't really necessary to provide a screen of every special spot. Instead, we need one good image of the wheel as it is, to illustrate how it looks now, then let the prose describe changes. That can also replace almost all of the text of the wheel configuration section. Also, only one image of the board is needed here (especially if the set history article continues to stand alone). Thoughts? Collectonian (talk) 02:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd take out Pat & Vanna, the $5000 space, and the Double Play. I agree with the above about P&V, the DP hasn't been part of the game for more than ten years, and the $5000 space doesn't need illustration to be understood. I'd leave the Bankrupt/$10,000/Bankrupt and Big Money wedges because the textual explanations may not be self-explanatory to the extent that illustrations are redundant. I'd keep both of the puzzle boards. I don't think there currently is a separate set history article (there was one, but I think it got merged after an AfD). However, there is an image of the old board on the daytime page, which would work if that one gets re-formatted as a history of the entire show. DJBullfish and I have both contacted the person who's uploaded most of the non-free material. We'll see if that helps prevent the problem from recurring. JTRH (talk) 02:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I removed the image of Pat & Vanna yesterday, because for some reason its positioning was causing a problem with page formatting, and I didn't know how to reposition it to solve the problem. One down, several to go. JTRH (talk) 20:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Winners list

The show no longer officially recognizes the winnings records set by contestants who played more than one game. Christine Denos is listed by wheeloffortune.com as the biggest winner in the show's history. Even though there are reliable sources giving a larger winnings amount for Argyropolous and Cohen, and I'm trying to find one other than a forum post for Mindi Mitola, should the list on this page just get rid of the records that are no longer "official"? JTRH (talk) 04:16, 26 February 2008 (UTC)