Talk:Western esotericism

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I wouldn't describe it as worthless, but it's very striking that no sources are cited, therefore it lacks credibility. --Sueyen 20:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

This is insane new age crackpot talk. The article is hopelesss; it yelds to nothing and speaks in the vacuum. It simply states there is a unified mystery tradition without giving ONE empirical evidence, either for the whole thing, or a single doctrine.

I agree. I have done a great deal of research in this topic, and this page is basically worthless.

It need not be. If it is correctly sourced and catagorized with some qoutes it could become an interesting article. It does need much work. I will try to find some sources to add that do not infringe copywright. Frater Sepa

[edit] NPOV

The authors opinion at the end of the summary should be fixed. WP:NPOV

Dragon Rouge consider themselves to be a Left Hand Path organization and as such share no common ground with the Western Mystery Tradition, for this reason link has been removed. Should one want to include Dragon Rouge they would also need to include the Church of Satan and the Temple of Set.

Please show me a reference that shows that the whole concept of Left and Right Hand paths is NOT part of the WMT. WMT includes both the left and right hand paths of the western traditions, just as the eastern mysteries also include their left handed pratitioners. -999 (Talk) 16:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Strictly speaking the Western Mystery Tradition is the continuation of the Mystery Religions and in this context Satanism and the western Left Hand Path are too modern. It is widley known within the Occult community that LHP considers itself to be working at odds (see The Satanic Bible) with those who claim to comprise the Western Mystery Tradition (Rosicrucians, etc.) and while one could argue that Tantra has Mystical aims it is part of the Eastern Tradition. For reference please see M.P. Hall's "The Secret doctrine of all ages" (Chapters I,II and III). In response please show me a reference that the LHP considers *itself* part of the Mystery tradition. I have deleted the link, if one wishes to reinstall it then please also included links to the Cos and the Temple of Set.Frater Sepa

Frater Sepa, normally one waits for a response and consensus before changing the article once again. Since you are clearly also the anonymous user, you have exceeded three reverts by repeatedly taking out Dragon Rouge. I have no argument to include CoS or ToS. However, I suggest you self-revert your removal of Dragon Rouge, unless you want to be blocked for 24 hours for violating WP:3RR. Thank you. -999 (Talk) 17:43, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I will gladly restore Dragon Rouge as well as include other LHP links but please show me how they are relevent to the WMT. Frater Sepa

At this point, you should restore the link and wait a few days for other editors to discuss. Lacking that, I will see you blocked for breaking WP:3RR. I know you are new here, so you don't know all the ins and outs of WP, but it is extremely bad form to repeatedly revert another editor. Don't be so impatient. The editors of this article may not be online right now. You don't have to solve it "right now" and when in doubt, material should be left in until discussion has completed and consensus has been determined. -999 (Talk) 17:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Per you request the link has been restored, however I would genuinly like to how how it is relevent to what is considered the WMT. in any case would this be a fitting time to re-write the historical overview? Thoughts on deleting the sections under the History heading and writing one complete historical overview? regarding the actual article itself thoughts on spliting it in two halfs to represent its historical (exoteric) concept and a philosophical overview to represent its doctrinal (Esoteric) concepts? Frater Sepa

Rather than worry about how many demons can dance on the head of a pin,this article needs CLARITY, EXPLANATIONS, DEFINITIONS, better sourcing, and CONCISENESS. cbramble —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:25:01, August 19, 2007 (UTC).

The whole concept of "left hand/right hand paths" (in the western world) are highly disputed. In my opinion it seems its mainly so called "lefthand path" organizations that is promoting this concept of "left hand & right hand paths".

-Bill Tues May 29, 2007

[edit] Sources

I am unsure whether or not the quotation i included infringes copywright as the article I lifted it from is in the public domain. any advice would be welcome. {Frater Sepa 21:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)}

[edit] Freemasonry

Freemasonry is not a religion, so I removed it from the "Non-Mystical Religion" list.

[edit] The Second World War

Re the following quote: "During the Second World War, occult luminaries in Britain, most notably Aleister Crowley and the Duke of Hamilton functioned as informal intermediaries between the warring governments of Britain and Hitler's Germany. Deputy fuhrer Rudolph Hess eventually made his famous escape to Scotland during the war, hoping to strike a peace bargain with Britain using the help of the Duke of Hamilton, an old occult lodge associate." Do we have a reliable cite for any of this? The first sentence appears especially fishy, as it sounds like self-aggrandizing claims, and I'm inclined to take it with a pretty big grain of salt. Didn't the British have professional diplomats for that sort of thing? As for Rudolf Hess and Duke Hamilton, the articles on them make it seem unlikely that they were Lodge brothers; it looks like they met at a diplomatic function during the Olympics, and Hamilton didn't remember Hess when he saw him three years later. Afalbrig 06:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Small Addition

I made a small addition. "Martinism also arose as an esoteric doctrine. So as well with various Rosicrucian orders."

I added: "So as well with various Rosicrucian orders."

If any one has a better way of wording this please do so. I'm at a lost.

Thanks

-Bill

May 30, 2007