Talk:Western Desert Campaign

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Contents

[edit] Renaming

To avoid confusion, I'm thinking that this should be renamed the Western Desert Campaign. Any objections? Oberiko 15:44, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Naming conventions (military units)

Forgive the spam, but I'm trying to round up wikipedians with an interest in international military history to help work out some conventions for the names of military units. If you are interested in that sort of thing, please visit Wikipedia:Naming conventions (military units) and join the discussions on the talk page. — B.Bryant 17:48, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Major rewrite

I'm trying to massively rewrite this whole page, as it's very thin on detail, has a number of factual errors and is generally in need of a lot of work. I think the basic structure is sound, but the sections need beefing up.

Lots of edits coming. --Po8crg 14:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Great, if you need any help, don't hesitate to ask. Oberiko 17:00, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Done for the moment - I might have another look at the Gazala-El Alamein period later. I think the maps may need moving about a bit to align with the new sections I've put in, but I find that sort of thing incredibly fiddly. Po8crg 17:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Too much of this is written from the British perspective. It needs some work to get it NPOV, but I'm not really good at editing my own writing. At least we now cover all the major events of the campaign! Po8crg 20:43, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DETAILS ABOUT THE BRITISH COUNTER-OFFENSIVE (1940-41)

In Sidi-El-Barrani (Nibeiwa)(on December 9, 1940) about 1,300 Italians were killed in action, among them their commander: general Pietro Maletti(today accused by historians for the massacre of 2,200 civilians in Ethiopia in 1937). In Beda Fomm (on February 7, 1941) was killed in action the commander of the 10th Italian Army (general Giuseppe Tellera) after 9 counter-attacks of his troops. The Italian garrison of Jarabub (Colonel Carlo Castagna), full surrounded, lasted hard resistance until March 21, 1941.

[edit] Who was Wavell?

He's mentioned in the article and I assume he was in command of the allied forces for a time, but it's never explicitly said, nor is his full name included anywhere. Can this be fixed? --Lendorien 19:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Resources

[edit] Online

These are all books which contain information pertinent to the Western Desert Campaign.

[edit] Full books

[edit] Google books (limited)

[edit] In print

  • Glenn Wahlert. The Western Desert Campaign 1940-41, 2006, ISBN 0 9757699 2 9, Army History Unit
  • Mediterranean and Middle East, Playfair, I.S.O., et al. [UK Military Series: History of the Second World War]
    • Volume 1: The Early Successes Against Italy, to May 1941 (ISBN 1-84574-065-3)
    • Volume 2: The Germans Come to the Help of Their Ally, 1941 (
    • Volume 3: British Fortunes Reach Their Lowest Ebb

[edit] Article structure

  • Overview
    • Background
    • Importance of the Western Desert
  • Military campaign
    • Early clashes
      • Initial hostilities and Italian offensive
      • British counter-attack (Compass)
      • Operation Sonnenblume (Spring 1941) - The German intervention in North Africa involving the sending of the DAK
    • Rommel's first offensive
      • Siege of Tobruk
      • Operation Brevity
      • Operation Skorpion (27 May, 1941) - The recapture of the Halfaya Pass by Axis forces.
      • Operation Battleaxe
      • Operation Sommernachtstraum (large reconnaissance operation)
    • Operation Crusader
    • Rommel's push from El Agheila to Gazala (Jan. 21st)
    • Battle of Gazala
      • Operation Venezia (26 May, 1942 - June 21st, 1942) - Rommel's operation for seizing Gazala
      • Battle of Bir Hakeim (May 26 - June 11)
      • The cauldron
      • Operation Aberdeen (June 5th, 1942) - Failed British counter attack
    • Battles of El Alamein
      • First Battle of El Alamein
        • Operation Aida (Jun/July 1942) - Offensive against British Eight Army into the Nile Delta
        • Operation Dora (Jul. 1942) - A raid by members of the Brandenburg Commandos into southern Libya in an effort to disrupt Allied trans-Africa supply routes.
      • Second push to El Alamein (Operation Brandung) and Battle of Alam el Halfa
      • Second El Alamein
        • Operation Lightfoot (October 23, 1942) - A broad offensive initiated by artillery fire
        • Operation Supercharge (November 2, 1942) - Breakout by British 30 Corps in Egypt as part of Eighth Army's offensive in the Western Desert
    • British drive west to Tunisia
      • Capture of Tripoli
  • Conclusions
  • See also
  • References
  • External links

[edit] Problems

  • Some sources state Theseus to be Rommel's initial strike during his second offensive
  • Some sources state that Theseus and Venezia are the same operation, with Germans calling it Theseus and the Italian's calling it Venezia [1]
  • Some sources call Venezia a frontal assault on the Gazala Line as a diversion [2]
  • In the Rommel Papers, Rommel addresses the attack on the Gazala line to be "Operation Venezia" [3]

Oberiko 17:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing link?

This article provides an overview of the fighting between the Italian attacks in 1940 and 2ns Alamein. There's a separate one for the Tunisia campaign, ie Medenine until the axis surrender. Is there anything for the final 8th Army push from 2nd Alamein to Medenine? The article North African campaign also omits this period, but includes everything else. Folks at 137 20:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Good point; it should definitely be included here. Grant | Talk 03:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, inclusion sounds legit, but the intro refers to the early part of the N African campaign, and the campaign box seems to define 2nd Alamein as a cut-off. I know this is not set in stone, but after Alamein seems a logical point for a new article and preventing the current article getting oversize. Folks at 137 05:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Typically, from what I've read, the Western Desert Campaign goes on until the start of the Tunisia campaign. IMO, the logical ending point would be the capture of Tripoli. Oberiko 12:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, I've added sketchy detail on the period. It's too long for a summary of this type, IMO, but without a separate main article, the detail needs to be somewhere. The article doesn't cover issues of the commanders and their relations with London, which is a gap. Folks at 137 19:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1942

This section states "the 7th Armoured Division was withdrawn". Where to? it stayed in N Africa and participated in the whole campaign. Clarification needed. Folks at 137 18:18, 11 May 2007 (UTC)