Talk:West Side Story

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

West Side Story is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, cleanup, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that aren't covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
Musical Theatre Portal
West Side Story is part of WikiProject Musical Theatre, organized to improve and complete musical theatre articles and coverage on Wikipedia. You can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B This article has been rated as B-Class
WikiProject Musical Theatre tasks:
This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team.
Version 0.7
 This article has been selected for Version 0.7 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia.

Contents

[edit] South Park - Tonight Parody?

in the animated motion picture "southpark - bigger, longer, uncut" there is a parody of "tonight". perhaps this should be mentioned? - musschrott

Go for it! Ellsworth 21:21, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'd definitely agree that there's a similarity, and I'm sure the writers were thinking of the song from West Side Story, but it should be noted that the form of *both* songs - Several characters singing different songs, spilling their hopes to the audience - is a popular way to close the first act of many musical theater or operatic shows. If I were more knowledgable in opera, I could give you better examples, but you can find similar songs in Les Miserables and in The Producers, and I think you could even make a case for Making Christmas, from The Nightmare Before Christmas, approaching these in tone. -MBlume 21:15, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Shook-Up Generation

It should be noted that much of the research for West Side Story came out of the book, The Shook-Up Generation. This book, by Harrison Salisbury, is an inside exposé on juvenile delinquency in the 1950's. Many of the subjects (gang organization, war councils, etc.) from the musical show up in the book. It was required reading for the casts of the original Broadway run, and, as an actor, I find it highly valuable in terms of character development. --Theaterfreak64

P.S. In fact, this book came out more than a year after West Side Story opened on Broadway and even describes the play as a romanticized view of gang life. Difficult to see how the cast could have referenced this work, since it didn't yet exist. The movie cast may have but the cast of the play? Impossible.

Brian Dalen —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.255.199.248 (talk) 08:10, 1 Jan, 2006 (UTC).

You are correct. I was somewhat surprised when I read that in the book, heh. My director described it as I did, anyway, way back when I in 'West Side Story'. The only possibility is that there is more than one edition of the book. Also, there was more than one Broadway cast, as the show ran for quite a long time. -Theaterfreak64 03:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC) according to 'the shook-up generation' selection of used books on ebay, the first printing was 1952, followed by 1958 amd 1959, then many more editions throught the 1960s from 60,61 through 1968. kub

[edit] Plot: Was Anita nearly raped?

  • I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the Jets did more than just taunt Anita, I thought they almost raped her and was stopped by Doc. Am I incorrect? GracieLizzie 16:07, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism not noticed

I just reverted this little bit of vandalism. It went unnoticed for several weeks! -- Samuel Wantman 09:27, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categorization

This article is categorized as a "Broadway opera." I believe that it falls squarely and completely within the musical genre. If nobody is opposed to me moving it into the Broadway musical category within two weeks, I'm going to move it. Please leave your comments here.--Cassmus 05:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, by some strict definitions of opera, it is considered such--the plot is advanced by the music--and it requires highly-trained singers with excellent technique for such numbers as the trio and double chorus for "Tonight." It is not through-sung (every verbal exchange is sung--that is, there is non-musical dialogue) but it comes close ("Oh no, Anita, no/You should know better/You were in love/Or so you said.") And the concert is sometimes performed by opera companies. That said, I would consider it an operatic/balletic (again, the dance advances the plot) musical. Like "The Most Happy Fella," WSS has always been difficult to categorize. 64.132.218.4 17:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm still not convinced that the show classifies as an opera. You do need highly trained singers for a production--but only two or three (for the parts of Tony, Maria, and possibly Anita). The music for all of the other parts, though, never comes close to being operatic. The production does not come close to being "through-sung." About 65% of the show is sung, which is not more than most other Broadway musicals and not to the level of opera. Also, music and dance do not advance the plot in any more than shows that are distinctly "musicals" (such as Oklahoma!). Is there a blurring between genres? Of course. However, West Side Story does not fall into that limbo area the way that The Phantom of the Opera, Candide, or Show Boat do.--Cassmus 20:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I've nominated Category:Broadway operas for deletion. -- Samuel Wantman 07:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I would not categorize WSS as a Broadway opera. If that was the case, then you could say that 70% of musicals are Broadway operas. The Woman in White has duets and trios...but that dosen't make it an opera. La Cage aux Folles has duets, and requires very trained singers..And as for I Have A Love/No, Anita No!....well, Evita and Rent are almost entirely sung-through, but they aren't operas. And just because there's lots of dialogue in WSS does not mean it can't be an opera........there's dialogue in Mozart's Magic Flute but it's still an opera. WSS is probably only performed as an opera because Leonard Bernstein is a celebrated classical musician. However, I wouldn't delete the whole category....there is a wide range of operatic musicals, like Sweeney Todd, Candide.....-Pamina

[edit] Plot: A Boy Like That- Maria "making love"?

It didn't actually occur to me that Maria and Tony were "making love." Is that actually true?

Note: "Making love" didn't used to mean "having sex." It used to be a synonym for "courting" or for "making out."

[edit] Influences?

Duke Ellington's memior "Music Is My Mistriss" claims that the original Broadway production of West Side Story appropriated the set design (possibly other things) from the musical "Jump for Joy" (for which Ellington wrote music).

[edit] There are three recordings of West Side Story:

I suspect this is untrue. world-wide ther must be many. I certainly have heard a fe in my life time that are not on this list. Please amend the list to reflect what it really means? Notable US recordings in English? Or put in another section. Candy 21:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What does Schrank mean when he asks A-Rab how his 'Old man's DT's' are?

I was just wondering because I tried looking it up and I couldn't find anything. Apparently his dad is an alcoholic. Does that have something to do with it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.135.98.22 (talk) 18:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Semi-protected

I watch over 50 pages through my Wikipedia user account, and this one is the most vandalized. Can we get it semi-protected to prevent what another user gently called "semi-literate thumb suckers" from continuing to vandalize one of the best musical theatre sites in Wikipedia?--Cassmus 20:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Triple Threat?

I found a huge mistake in the opening paragraph:

"Another revolutionary aspect of the original production of West Side is that it was the first Broadway production that required the performers to be triple threats, which is to say that the performers were all expected to be able to act, sing, and dance."


Obviously the author hasn't heard of Anything Goes or Oklahoma.

66.159.224.80 20:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)Pamina

I'm one of the "semi-literate thumb suckers" who has attempted to contribute to this article, and I'm the person who added the bit about the "triple threat." The paragraph I inserted is almost a word-for-word quote from Gerald Freedman, the assistant director of the original stage production of West Side Story. I guess the assertation is a little below Wikipedia's standards of documentation, but it was intended to be a useful addition and not the usual "LOLZ Tonys a fag!" thing. I'm not going to revert the edit but I didn't want anyone to think that it was a completely random statement. That said, Freedman is also involved with the NCSA production of West Side that's caused such consternation on this page (and yes, I agree that adding the revival info that early was a little on the advertising side) so you can take my words with however much salt you happen to be toting today.

75.177.82.157 16:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I Feel Pretty

Article currently says:

"I Feel Pretty" has also been used in a comedic way from time to time, due to the line "I feel pretty and witty and gay". At the time the song was written, the term "gay" as a synonym of "homosexual" was not so widely known:

I think this might be a bit misleading. I understand the original lyrics were: "I feel pretty and witty and bright", rhyming with "tonight" in the next line. In the film version the lyrics were changed to be consistent with the time of day "gay/today". So at the time the song was written, the word "gay" wasn't even in it!

Steve Lowther 02:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Then it should read "at the time the film was made". Wahkeenah 03:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Symphonic Dances

I can't find in the article any mention of a Symphonic Dances Suite derived from West Side Story as is suggested by this NY Phil page about it. Also: Program notes from Oklahoma

--Atavi 23:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I just added a line in the recordings section. He recorded it for Columbia (now Sony) and DG. Both are still in print and can be found on amazon. The SONY is SMK 63025. I have the DG as part of a "Bernstein conducts Bernstein" boxed set, 469 829-2. I'm not sure what it's original single CD release is on. If someone wants to correctly apply these citations, that would be nice. I'm not sure what the current standard is for a CD reference like that.

--Acroyear 23:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NCSA - hello? How is this not just advertising?

Would the folks at North Carolina School of the Arts please tell us why their future production of West Side Story is so notable? That is, why is your insertion not just advertising?

Arches16 (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) 5 March 2007 here only
66.73.194.21 (talk • contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • RBLs • block user • block log) 12 March 2007 here, theatre
Eaglecorpse (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) 14 March 2007 NCSA, theatre, and here
204.85.6.176 (talk • contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • RBLs • block user • block log) 14 March 2007 here, theatre

Shenme 15:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The "west side" of North Carolina consists of mountains, so maybe they're rewriting it as a musical version of the Hatfields and the McCoys. Wahkeenah 23:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

No response yet, here or at the individual editors talk pages outlined above. My objection is echoed by the external site's own phrasing of an article "Though this production is a fiftieth anniversary celebration of the original, ...". Note the 'a'. It is not 'the' 'only' single and acclaimed by all anniversary production. I'm sure other schools and local organizations will take this opportunity to celebrate the anniversary, and would also love to advertise that. While NCSA's associations with the original production are interesting, this text still ends up reading like an advertisement for a future production. I would like to see one or more of those editors to comment on how this is not a correct reading. Shenme 04:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

--19:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)Eaglecorpse

Yes, although it is 'a' 50th anniversary production (not 'the'), it is the only full-scale broadway-style production being put on. It is also one the only full-scale professional production put on where the roles are being played by those closer to the age that the roles were originally intended to be. Also, as mentioned, Arthur Laurents and Gerald Freedman are involved, as well as the Bernstein Children, Mauceri (Bernstein's protege), many of the surviving members of the original cast, etc, etc. --Eaglecorpse 19:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Eaglecorpse 02:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

You can see a list of people involved in the production at http://www.ncarts.edu/pressreleases/Releases2007/March07/friendsupport.htm Eaglecorpse 02:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

As much as I like the NCSA as an institution, it still amounts to promotional advertising. Wahkeenah 07:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with Wahkeenah. For musicals the threshold for warranting a production's inclusion in Wikipedia seems to be either 1) a world premiere, 2) a cast recording, 3) a production in a noteworthy venue like Broadway or the West End, 4) a famous star in a production, or 5) a revolutionary production that alters the way people worldwide see, imagine, and stage the show in the future. I doubt that the NCSA production fits ANY of these categories.--Cassmus 07:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I also agree. First of all, this is a student production, not a professional production. Second, it has not happened yet. Third, it is a very limited run of less than two weeks. Fourth, there are numerous 50th anniversary events and productions planned. The fact that people connected with the production had a connection with the Broadway production and/or Bernstein is interesting, but not really notable. Here's an idea: Wait until a month after the production has actually happened and see if there has been a Washington Post or NY Times review that discusses why this production is notable. If there are some, you will be able to quote it and write something. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 06:09, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

This production will almost certainly revolutionize the way this production will be put on in the future. The school is already receiving extensive media coverage, plus the production values are pushing the envelope. According to a Gazette article, "Rather than creating a set and staging consisting of horizontal and vertical sets and props, the entire show is created on a diagonal plane. The entire concept has been overhauled in order to lend this production a new aspect, a new facet to give new life to an older work. Along with this, the advance of technology since the original staging of West Side Story has provided new means for innovation in set design. The sets and props are moved not by hand, but rather by machines run by computers. Further, the actual sets are only half physical, the rest is visual. Projectors are to be used to create the sets atop a common slate. This allows for easier set changes, more smooth transitions, and freer artistic expression." Also, at Mauceri's installation the other day, he said, in front of reporters and TV cameras, that this production will be the "best production of West Side Story, ever." It will also quite possibly be the last time the original score is performed- most productions nowadays use a smaller version of the orchestra, due to the difficulty of the music and the amount of money it costs to hire a 30+ piece orchestra- Mauceri is actually having to use his own personal parts for this production, because the original orchestration is that scarce. The NCSA production is also listed on the front pages of the official Leonard Bernstein and WSS sites. --—Preceding unsigned comment added by Eaglecorpse (talk • contribs)

While that's all well and good, I don't think it's going to "revolutionize" the way the production is staged - you yourself said it's likely to be the LAST time it's produced with the full orchestration (though that might actually make it notable...). Small scale productions with bizzare or unusual stagings are not uncommon for any show, especially school productions where some avant-garde student director gets a wild idea in his head... (not that I'm saying Mauceri is a crazy student, but unusual directorial decisions do not necessarily make for notability). --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 17:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

75.177.82.157 03:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)"not that I'm saying Mauceri is a crazy student,"

I should hope not.
John_Mauceri

[edit] Citation for Keith Emerson

How should one cite it? The ELP "proof" is on the CD, Emerson, Lake and Palmer Live at the Royal Albert Hall, and the 3 was broadcast by their performance (representing ELP but without Greg Lake) at the Atlantic Records 40th Anniversary Concert. I know this 'cause I still have it on tape 20 years later.

--Acroyear 23:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anybodys

In the Japanese version of West Side Story it is said that Anybodys represents Balthazar in 'Romeo and Juliet'. Can you please help to vetify this? Candybag 13:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Characters

What are your sources for the changes suggested on July 1, 2007? -- Ssilvers 15:34, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism.

Removed this line: Tony likes men from the "Shakespearean parallels" section. Nothingbutmeat 12:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for catching this... but you don't need to make a talkpage note everytime you revert a vandalism. Just note it in the edit summary. Thanks! -DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 17:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tonight parody

This isn't about the South Park one, but I was listening to a broadway station and a parody of "Tonight" came on, although it was listed as by Leonard Bernstein, Tonight (Tony and Maria), I think it was a parody and I'm trying to find it because I thought it was hilarious. I haven't actually seen West Side Story, but I'm not sure if the words 'Don't Cry for Me, Barbra Streisand' are in the musical version :) . If anyone could help me find it, I would greatly appreciate it. Beyond 'Don't Cry for Me, Barbra Streisand', there were parts where the singer was complaining about Barbra Streisand being chosen for some movie parts and stuff, sorry I don't remember much more... Bardiak 04:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Bardiak, I believe you heard a selection from Forbidden Broadway, whose many productions over the years contain parodies of other broadway musicals.Thomprod 17:43, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Confirmed, except "Don't Cry For Me, Barbra Streisand" is a parody of "Don't Cry For Me, Argentina" from Evita. In the original FB staging, the actress is clearly made up to look like Patti LuPone in the role of Eva Peron. Bardiak, if you were listening to XM28 On Broadway on the XM Satellite Radio network, well, they're notorious for mislabelling songs... -DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 17:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sondheim reference

By late 1955, Robbins and Laurents teamed up with 27-year old lyricist Stephen Sondheim, who wrote the songs and lyrics to his first Broadway show, now titled West Side Story.

There's a problem here, and I can't figure out how to rewrite it.

  1. Where's Bernstein? He's not mentioned in the previous paragraph, and in fact, the history section never mentions when he joined the team.
  2. Writing the "songs" usually, in the business, implies writing the music. Steve did not write the "songs" for WSS, only the lyrics. (This is an easy change, but fixing it immediately begs the previous question, which is why I'm reluctant to fix it, because I don't know the answer to the first question.) --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 17:50, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Bernstein was in from the beginning (1949), but his own accounts do not talk about whether he actually began composing until later (after the 1955 meetings). So, I made a few changes that finesse the issue a little. See what you think. -- Ssilvers 18:22, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Upper West Side?

The articles states that WSS takes place on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I don't think this is correct. I've always understood it to have been a reference to locations further downtown -- more like Hell's Kitchen, Chelsea or the Village. These areas were all hotbeds of youth gang activity and conflict between goups of teens from different ethnic backgrounds from the 50s until well into the 70s; far more so than the UWS. Also, the "look and feel" of the play is much more like downtown locations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psychlist (talk • contribs) 21:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Bernstein vs The Nice

While there is a popular story about Bernstein being annoyed at or banning The Nice from performing America, it's very out of character for him. He was interviewed at the time and this was put to him, responding he'd never heard of the band (included in The Sounds of the Sixties documentary series). Unless there's a better cite we should regard the story with suspicion. MartinSFSA 07:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Useful info from Mark Steyn?

Mark Steyn has an article about the creation of WSS on his website. Among other things, it includes interviews with Hal Prince, Sid Ramin and Arthur Laurents. Contributors who know about WSS (ie., not me) may find it useful. Cheers, CWC 08:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Characters

This article used to state that Diesel is second in command of the Jets. While this is true in the movie version to match Diesel's (Ice) expanded part, in the play he is primarily just the best fighter. Action is the second in commandin the play. This can be seen after "Jet Song" when he assumes he will be Rif's lieutenant at the war council. He also clearly assumes leadership of the gang after Rif's death. When Anybody's informes them of Chino's gun, he dispatches the Jets to search, and even Diesel follows his orders. There are also several other examples of his leadership in other scenes. For these reasons I have edited the article to read as it now does, . F-451 03:58, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Even though i agree that action took over after riffs death, in the description of the characters in the play version it clearly states that diesel is the lieutenant of the jets. Thats why im going to keep the statement that reads action is second in command im going to state that diesel is the lieutenant of the jets.

[edit] Orchestration

As it stands now the orchestration section says in part, "The orchestra personnel required for a proper performance of the score is among the largest in the musical theater repertoire. The score calls for five woodwind players (each doubling on multiple instruments), seven brasses, three percussionists, a pianist, a guitarist, and twelve string players. In all, 30 musicians are needed to perform the score as intended by the composer."

This isn't terribly remarkable at all for its time. Many shows of the era need 25+ musicians in their orchestra (How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, The King and I, and others). Moreover, later British supermusicals and modern American shows with lush orchestrations (The Phantom of the Opera (1986 musical), Ragtime) often require more instruments than Bernstein's score calls for. Also, the fact that woodwind players double is not worth mentioning--such is common in musical theatre orchestras, nor is the makeup of the orchestra (although it may be the first musical score that called for an electric guitar, but that needs verification).

I'm just mentioning all this so no one complains when I cut all of that out in a few weeks. Comments are welcome.--Cassmus 03:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Some later musicals are scored for more instruments, but many productions can make due with fewer. WSS was unusual in requiring three percussionists when one was the norm at the time, and four cellists in "Somewhere". A brief mention is appropriate.Thomprod 20:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More recent critiques

The article "West Side Story: A Puerto Rican reading of 'America'" by Alberto Sandoval Sanchez in Jump Cut: A Review of Contemporary Media, no. 39, June 1994, pp. 59-66, represents an interesting recent alternative critical view of the musical that is a counterpoint to the contemporary critiques in that it analyzes the symbolism of the choice of Puerto Ricans in a musical written by White, non-Latino authors. It is also cited in third-party sources, which suggests notability for this review (see The Latino Studies Reader: Culture, Politics and Society edited by Antonia Darder, Rodolfo [chapter: Mapping the Discourse on Puerto Ricans and "Race"; this published annotated bibliography; and Latinas in the United States: A Historical Encyclopedia by Vicki Ruíz & Virginia Sánchez). As much as I love WSS and as valid as I feel the contemporary critiques also are, it's worthwhile to include some mention of more recent analyses of this authorial decision. Another article on the topic, which I haven't read, is this one: Negron-Muntaner, Frances. Feeling Pretty: West Side Story and Puerto Rican Identity Discourses Social Text - 63 (Volume 18, Number 2), Summer 2000, pp. 83-106 Duke University Press

Just FWIW in the interest of making the article even more well-documented and comprehensive. Lawikitejana (talk) 04:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)