Talk:West Bromwich Albion F.C.

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the West Bromwich Albion F.C. article.
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Good article West Bromwich Albion F.C. has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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Contents

[edit] Famous supporters

I always thought the Lenny Henry was a Villa supporter. Does anyone have any support for this? Cutler 00:49, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I have removed all "famous supporters" where I could not find a reliable source stating that they are Albion supporters. Adrian Chiles, Adrian Goldberg, Matthew Marsden, Richie Woodhall & Frank Skinner are or were regular attendees at Albion matches, while Goran Ivanisevic is notable for wearing an Albion shirt durng the warm-up to tennis final (although I'm not sure if he has actually attended any Albion games). All of the afforementioned have been retained. The remainder are somewhat dubious. Cat Deeley may well be an Albion fan, but where is the evidence? --Jameboy 11:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made sure that every famous supporter listed has a citation against it, which is a lot more than most football club pages - apparently this isn't enough. I really don't see a problem with listing famous fans if they are all sourced - which they are. The Manchester City F.C. article mentions the Gallagher brothers supporting the club, and that was a featured article, so what is the difference here? If there is a policy or consensus on not including celebrity supporters then please point me to it and I'll go along with it. Otherwise please contribute constructively to the article (I have outlined several tasks in the To Do list above) rather than removing sourced material. Thanks. --Jameboy 17:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
It seems the consensus at WP:FOOTY is clearly not to have famous fans in club articles, so I have removed them. Each reference has been moved to the page of the celebrity supporter concerned, except for Eric Clapton, whose "support" seemed highly dubious. --Jameboy 14:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Can someone British tell me what "Albion" refers to, as I know it is in a couple of football team names. Much obliged. Roadhockey 23:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

http://www.baggies.com/celebrities/ - John

Albion is an ancient mythical name for Great Britain and is well-explained in that article. I understand that West Brom's name comes from the nearby, but now defunct, factory the Albion Foundry. I have no idea about the other teams. Cutler 09:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Roadhockey 13:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

yes lenny henry is an albion fan, he sat in the same row as me for the wembley gaeme against derby ( in the albion end) and was cheering and shouting for the club

[edit] Too much emphasis on the present

I think we should resist the temptation to keep adding the latest news/speculation regarding Robson/Peace/the fans. That is not what an encyclopedia article is for. The sections regarding the last few seasons are too long and will need to be condensed. If people want to add things, there are some gaps in the history which need to be filled, not to mention many Albion player articles which could be created or added to. Jameboy 23:15, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed Cutler 09:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
I've added a comment to the 2006-Present section requesting this. Aabha (talk) 10:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
To avoid recentism, I've applied a 'Major Edit' to the History section, merging everything from 2000 onwards into the article History of West Bromwich Albion F.C., and replacing it with a vastly condensed version in the main article. --Jameboy 14:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Honours

The addition of runners-up 'honours' makes it look really ugly IMHO, much preferred the old formatting 86.128.180.142 19:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe runners-up honours are noteworthy, with the possible exception of the charity shield. I've improved it slightly by taking the bold off (old) and (new). This follows the format of the Man City article, which was a featured article. Now we just need to get the rest of the WBA article up to the same standard, which could take a while! Jameboy 15:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "Baggies" and "Boing Boing"

I always thought the nickname derived from the fact that they were the first club to wear baggy shorts.

This is a popular assumption, but there is little evidence to support it. I've heard the theory about baggy trousers worn in foundries more than once. According to club historian Tony Matthews however (three or four years ago) the nickname arose because at one of the previous grounds (Stoney Lane?) the turnstile operators used to carry the takings along the touchline at some point in the match, in big leather bags or holdalls, and the cry used to go up "here come the bag men". This soon got corrupted to Baggies.Haydn01 15:45, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Where does the 'boing boing' chant originate from? Martyn Smith 21:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

No one really knows. It started around the time that Albion played in the old Third Division (1991/2 season). One of the more convincing theories is that it started in a public house during a conversation about Albion "bouncing back" to the higher divisions.Haydn01 15:45, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

According to WBA Unofficial it comes from the song Poing by Rotterdam Termination Source. Jameboy 21:39, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I always "understood" that the 'boing boing' chant related back to the club's foundation by spring workers, although I have no greater provenance for this than any of the other theories.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mbalmer (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Encyclopaedic?

Feel this article is too 'chatty' and not NPOV enough on the whole Martyn Smith 21:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

We also need a grown-up article History of West Bromwich Albion F.C. to help manage the content better. Cutler 19:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First team in Russia

"Albion were the first English team to play in Russia" - I was led to believe this was actually Arsenal, who played Dynamo Moscow in Russia on October 5, 1954. [1] When did Albion make their visit to Russia? Qwghlm 09:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Albion's Soviet tour was in the summer of 1957. They won two games and drew one; the ones they won were against Dynamo Tbilisi (Georgia, not Russia) and against CDKA, the Soviet Army side, in Moscow. The draw was against FC Zenit in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg), which was the first of the three. Albion were not the first English side to play in Russia, but they were the first British professional side to win a game there. They were the first to play in China. Haydn01 20:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up & correcting, cheers. Qwghlm 12:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved list of managers

I've changed the section 'Managerial history' to 'Notable former managers', and moved the old list to its own article, List of West Bromwich Albion F.C. managers. The list was part of the clutter in this article which needs trimming. I'm sure there will be some disagreement as to what constitutes a 'notable' manager but I'm more than happy to debate it here if anyone disagrees with my initial shortlist. --Jameboy 22:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Albion / West Brom

I've removed the following from the article:

The club is also known colloquially as The Albion or West Brom. Of these last two names, "the Albion" is more common in the local areas of Birmingham and the Black Country, while further afield "West Brom" is probably more common.

This is undoubtedly true, but I haven't been able to find a source for it. If a citation can be found I'll add it back in. --Jameboy 15:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

Following a bunch of comments I made at the peer review, I'm now reviewing the article for GA status. Please find below my comments!

  • Ensure all citations are placed per WP:CITE.
Y Done I have removed one rogue space, but other than that all seems in order. For prose I have consistently cited after puncuation, and for lists/tables wherever seems appropriate. If you spot any specific transgressions I'll be happy to correct them. Note - I won't mark this one as done until I've added in any additional citations following the other comments below. Now done. --Jameboy (talk) 00:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
  • "Now managed by ..." not keen on this phrasing. I know what you mean but not great.
Y Done Agree, it kind of skips between tenses. I've rephrased this bit. --Jameboy 01:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • "...engineered a dramatic and improbable last-day “Great Escape”, with Albion becoming the first Premiership club to stave off relegation ..." - very journalistic, needs work, quotations etc to survive.
Y Done Agree, it was OTT for an encyclopedia, have rephrased it to reduce it to the bare facts. It was dramatic and improbable though (source: my shredded nerves) --Jameboy (talk) 01:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Avoid World War II - pipe it and say Second World War, this is British English.
Y Done Hmmm. It seems even the resident experts can't agree on this (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#World War II mentions a talk page discussion at Webley Revolver on this very subject). I'm happy to leave them to it for now and accept whatever consensus results. In the meantime I have made the changes you suggested, both for British English and also because it sounds better. I was hesitant to make this change at first, but having read a little more on this I'm more convinced now. --Jameboy (talk) 17:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Order citations numerically, you have, for example, [42][39].
Y Done This was the only instance of this as far as I can see. --Jameboy (talk) 16:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  • "...also provided the club's clothing..." really? or did they just manufacture it?
Y Done It means manufactured, but changed to "produced" as manufactured twice in one sentence doesn't sound right to me. --Jameboy (talk) 00:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
  • "In later years an effigy of a throstle sat perched above the scoreboard of the old Woodman corner at The Hawthorns, and was returned to the same area of the ground following redevelopment in the early 2000s." needs citation.
Y Done
  • coincide is not hyphenated.
Y Done
  • "Not until the early 21st century did the actual club crest appear on the team's shirts." needs citation.
Y Done Now cited. The statement is not written explicitly at source, but the images within the source do (IMO) back up what is being said here. --Jameboy 01:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • "Albion drew 1–1 with Derby County in the first match at the stadium, on September 3, 1900. The Hawthorns experienced its record attendance on March 6, 1937, when 64,815 spectators saw Albion beat Arsenal 3–1 in the FA Cup quarter-final. In the 1990s, following the Taylor Report, the ground became all-seated. Today, it is a 28,003 capacity all-seater stadium, comprising the Birmingham Road End, Smethwick End, East Stand and Halfords Lane Stand. At an altitude of 551 feet (168 metres), The Hawthorns is the highest ground among those of all 92 Premier League and Football League clubs." - citations?
Y Done All these facts now cited
  • Can't believe you got Gaardsoe from us... boo.
Aye, good player, shame he was forced to retire. I guess you enjoyed the bit about the '78 cup semi though... --Jameboy (talk) 16:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  • "Other theories relate to the baggy shorts worn by various players during the club's early years. The official club mascot is named Baggie Bird, and is based on the throstle depicted on the club crest." - cite.
Y Done
  • Ownership and governance section is very choppy - look to flow a number of the sentences together...
Y Done Section expanded, flow improved, additional citations added. --Jameboy 18:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Notable players table, make ranges consistent with other ranges, so 1886–1899 becomes 1886–99.
Y Done
  • Same for managers.
Y Done
  • With managers, consider actually including what they did win to make them notable. I found it interesting that Ardilles and Atkinson were in the same "notable" category but want to know why!
Y Done Have added the achievements that meet the specified notability criteria. Also tweaked the criteria slightly to include runners up. --Jameboy 21:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Discuss, fix, etc and I'll promote. Give me a shout whenever! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Good work. Promoted to GA now. The Rambling Man 17:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Away kit gone all screwy

Due to Image:Kit body greenstripes.png being deleted from the wiki commons, the yellow and green away kit is not displaying properly (Colours section). I have asked the person who deleted the image from Commons to kindly undelete it. --Jameboy (talk) 01:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hooligan firm - source required

The following has been removed due to being from a non-notable source:

The hooligan firm who associate themselves with Albion are known as Section 5.[1]

Can anyone find a reliable source for this information? Thanks. --Jameboy (talk) 14:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Found one - now added back in. Jameboy (talk) 01:05, 25 March 2008 (UTC)