Talk:Welsh settlement in Argentina

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Welsh settlement in Argentina article.
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[edit] Naming of article

I feel the naming of this article is wrong. It is an interesting article, mainly about Welsh immigration. I therefore suggest moving it to Welsh settlement of Argentina. I have some expansion I want to do on this, including on Trevelin, Malacara, etc. Chubut Valley should either be a redirect to River Chubut or an article about the area around the river. I prefer the former. Mtiedemann 18:01, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Though it would be good to do the River Chubut (Chubut River) before we do this, so we don't leave a redirection to a non existing page. -Mariano 11:06, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Cwm Hydref" query

The article gives the translation "October Valley". Is this what it actually is? Since "hydref" is also the name for "autumn", and that sounds like it makes more sense, to me.--193.195.185.254 03:00, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

"Hydref" in Welsh can mean both "October" (usually as "mis Hydref") and "autumn". However the Spanish version of the name uses "Octubre", so I suspect it does refer to the month - the colony in this area was set up on the 16th October. Rhion 16:03, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Not forgetting, of course, that in Argentina October is in the spring, not the autumn! -- Arwel (talk) 23:22, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welsh colonization of the Americas

The name of the article should be Welsh colonization of the Americas. I'll soon change it if nobody cares. --VsA 20:39, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Bad move. This article is exclusively about the colony in Argentina, specifically in Patagonia. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Welsh settlements elsewhere in the Americas e.g. Pennsylvania, New York, Vermont or indeed all over the US and Canada, apart from which the rename makes the first sentence incorrect "Welsh colonization of the Americas began in the 19th century." - no it didn't, that began in the 17th century. Please move it back. -- Arwel (talk) 12:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Agree with Arwel - the article is specifically about one colony. Perhaps there is room for a "Welsh colonization of the Americas" article, but this isn't it. Rhion 18:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I thought the same before seeing German colonization of the Americas, it only talks about one colony in Venezuela. And, if the time is a problem, then please see Danish colonization of the Americas, when the colonial empire begins in the 18th century. But the article's name is irrelevant, and I won't start an edit war for this. Cheers. --VsA 20:38, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
It could be merged with Welsh Tract and become Welsh colonization of the Americas? Robdurbar 22:04, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prince Madoc

Even though it's only a legend, shouldn't there be at least a brief mention of Prince Madoc here?--Caliga10 13:13, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Certainly not. Even if he ever existed, Madoc was never within 5000 miles of Argentina. -- Arwel (talk) 23:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Factual area in area conversion

500,000 acres is not 5,000 km². There are 247.1 acres to a km². I don't know which figure needs fixing. Olborne 10:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure which is right - the acres sounds more likely though as it equates better to irrigation along an 80 km stretch. If this means the total fertile cropland of Chubut, it may be the higher figure, given that the River is a lot longer than this 80km length mentioned. Martín (saying/doing) 10:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the reference to 500,000 acres/5,000 km². It is difficult to know which is right as it is not clear exactly what the figure represents. It can be put back if somebody is able to verify it. Rhion 11:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gabriel Heinze

Removed the statement about Gabriel Heinze being able to speak Welsh - there's a lot of doubt on Talk:Gabriel Heinze about this, especially as he appears to hail from Entre Rios state which is a looooong way from Chubut! It appears an anon may have put this "fact" in his article in late 2004, then it's been picked up by various football websites and Sky Sports and we've all gone into a feedback loop quoting each other - even the Manchester United site mentions it... -- 01:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I forgot about Hainze being also in this page. Well done. Mariano(t/c) 08:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The title "Welsh" isn't welcomed by many Cymries

Note the term "Welsh" is generally not always a good word to name our people, because some of us "Welsh" people in Wales object to the term in times, was used to offend and insult others in Great Britain (like "to Welsh them up" or "Welshing them") had violent meanings to promote ethnic and regional tensions against the "Welsh". Many of us preferably self-named ourselves Cymry, Cimries or Camries from an earlier source in our language (consult the Wikipedia article on Welsh people). I'm not suggesting do away with the term, but in a political correct world we live in (Wikipedia has focused on what may accidentally offend or disparage groups of people), the terminology of "Welsh" send horrifying mental images of some historic level of prejudice and discrimination against us Cymries for over hundreds of years. The major reason why many Cymries left Wales in the 18th and 19th centuries to North America, Australia and South Africa (even into Northern France, where thousands of older local residents has family in Wales) was to preserve our language and culture. The issue was when the culture was endangered by an approaching British conformity, anything "Welsh" was treated an unfavourable act and legal penalties were inflicted by English authorities for anyone who did "Welsh" cultural behaviours. I knew in the mid 1800s, Wales school houses punished students for openly speaking the language around instructors or teachers, and were rigourously disciplined for doing so. The children set at the corner or by the chalkboard had wore an embarrassing sign "Welsh Not" for English speaking children to observe how "those bad unpatriotic Welsh kids" are having a different culture. The Argentine-Welsh community struggles to preserve their cultural integrity in the year 2006, but the anti-British and nationalist mood during the Falkland Islands war (1982) made several thousand of people from the region emigrate to Canada and/or Chile. I never heard of the Argentine people adopted the term for reasons as a pejorative, but be in mind in part of ethnic sensitivity on the usage of "Welsh".63.3.14.1 14:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Falklands War

Was there a backlash against the Welsh in Argentina during the Falklands war, or were they not viewed as British? Lofty 20:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

They regard themselves as Argentines, not British - as some visitors from Wales found out at the time when they referred to the "Falklands" rather than the "Malvinas".Rhion 23:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, I think it was reported that the pilot of the plane which bombed the Welsh Guards on the Sir Galahad was a Hughes... -- Arwel (talk) 19:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Y Wladfa and Caernarfon

Hi all - I was in Caernarfon a few months ago and I came across a chapel with the following plaque:

"GWLADFA PATAGONIA - Mewn ystafell yn y Capel hwn, yn 1856, y trafodwyd gyntaf yng Nghymru y syniad o Wladfa Gymreig ym Mhatagonia" [plus the date of dedication] ("Patagonian Colony - In a room in this chapel in 1856, the idea of a Welsh colony in Patagonia was first discussed")

I can't see any Caernarfon connection in the article as it stands, so is there something to this? The plaque (I'll upload a photo of it when I can) looks rather official and well kept (it was dedicated nearly forty years ago), so I'm assuming the events in this chapel must have been significant enough. Any thoughts people? Rob Lindsey 01:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)