Talk:Webmaster

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[edit] Emology

Anyone know anything about how this term was coined?

It comes from Dungeon Master in Dungeon's and Dragons. It was a game that was popular around the time that the World Wide Web was conceived.

If you do a search for webmaster on dictionary.com, you'll find that the Free On-line Dictionary of Computing says that the term probably came from the term postmaster. I would suggest perhaps doing a usenet search to see when the term was first used there. Theshibboleth 07:31, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Alright, I found the term first used on usenet in 1994. See http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=100&q=%28%22web+master%22%2C+webmaster%29&safe=off&qt_s=Search&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=27&as_maxm=11&as_maxy=1994. The term is split into "web master". Theshibboleth 07:38, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
The Oxford English Dictionary gives the etymology of webmaster as: [< WEB n. + MASTER n.1] (The definition of master cited here as "A person or thing having control or authority"), but makes no reference to the word "postmaster" as a precedent. The OED also lists the earliest known print reference as having been in PC Week magazine in April of 1994, which predates your Usenet reference by about 7 months. Kevyn 05:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

As a 'webmaster' from 1993 onward, I can 100% guarentee the term's origin is to parallel postmaster (email) and hostmaster (dns). Will dig around for any appropriate cites or archives, but at the time we were all cognizant of the *master convention for existing infrastructure services, therefore webmaster was a logical progression. --jzp 21:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sexism: Webmistress The Lesbo side of the story!

The term webmistress is sexist and chauvinistic. It sounds like other extraneous terms such as mayoress, dominatrix, aviatrix, and so forth. A woman can be a master, mayor, dominator, aviator, et cetera. What is next? Are we going to call a female doctor a doctress? Patchouli 10:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Sexist, chauvinistic and archaic-sounding as it may be, it is a term in wide use by some female webmasters - though its use is by no means universal. I have worked as a web manager alongside a number of enlightened, powerful, feminist women who have embraced the term "webmistress"... probably because of its tongue-in-cheek, in-control, BDSM connotations. In my experience, this is usually a term that the women adopt themselves, not one that men put on them.
I've re-written the intro to include the term - I do believe it is widespread enough to warrant inclusion - and created a section on the term to explain its usage and to indicate that this is not universal. Kevyn 16:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
True, the word mistress conjures the image of a horny woman that only designs pornographic sites. It has more to do with a concubine than a professional expert. Patchouli 21:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
As does the word "master" in webmaster - it's an inherently gender-biased term. However, whether or not you or I like the terms used is irrelevant here. What is relevant is that the term is in widespread use - and a Google search reveals almost 3 million occurrences of the word on the WWW [1]. That sounds like widespread use to me, which makes it encyclopedic, and worthy of inclusion. Please, don't inject your personal agendas into this article. It is important to be as neutral as possible in editing Wikipedia articles. I have reverted your edit. Kevyn 23:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I had a coworker who wanted me (a white person) to call him a nigger so long as I didn't say nigga (without the r). Historically, many people have tried to adopt an offensive word and embrace it. However, I have never seen a link on the bottom of even a porno website named webmaster/webmistress.Patchouli 21:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
False analogy. We're not talking about terms that have been historically used as weapons against oppressed people. Webmistress is not a loaded word that is used as a weapon. There's no comparison between the two. A much better analogy would be gender-specific words like "actress" or "aviatrix." Kevyn 23:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Friend, the 2003 Edition of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary — produced by the same company that makes Britannica — does not have any entry for webmistress; the Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia 2006 which I have updated today has no such term. Here is the Google search result as of today
\frac{webmaster}{webmistress}=\frac{169\times10^7}{262\times10^4}\approx645.
Also, look at the second result of my Google search using the keyword webmistress

Welcome to Webmistress.org!Welcome to Webmistress.org! Domain name host of BDSM themed websites. Please select your area of interest. Crave For Adults who are interested in ...
www.webmistress.org/ - 2k.

Nonetheless, I won't revert your edit and maybe in the future through arduous campaigning it may become prevalent. By the way, you can master computer science, but you can't mistress (huh?) computer science. One more point, the spellchecker of Google's toolbar underlines webmistress with red as a spelling error but the same is not true with webmaster. Patchouli 04:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, first of all, please do not call me "Dear Friend," as you do not know me, and I do not appreciate the sarcasm. I am trying to maintain a professional debate on the issues here.
The fact that the word "webmistress" does not appear in dictionaries, Encarta, or Google's toolbar spellchecker is irrelevant to this discussion -- we are not debating whether or not the word exists or not - it clearly does (dictionaries take time to catch up with the language). What we are debating is the appropriateness of including the term in this article.
The equation of Google results comparing the number of occurences of "webmaster" with "webmistress" is also not relevant, because nobody is arguing that "webmaster" is not the more common term. The fact that "webmaster" is by far more common does not change the fact that the term "webmistress" is in widespread usage, as evidenced by the immense number of women out there who use the term, based on the Google search.
Your choice of singling out the second Google result - which I also got on my search - as an argument for not including the term escapes me. I do not deny that some women use it in connection with the BDSM Mistress connection - and even wrote it into the article yesterday - but based on a cursory look through the Google results, a great many of the women who use the term do not appear to be using it with that meaning in mind. Rather, the connotation of mistress as "woman in charge" seems to be prevalent.
The same can be said of your argument about "mistressing" computer science - you are arguing the term "master" in the adjective sense, which is not the etymology of the word. The Oxford English Dictionary lists the etymology of webmaster as being from the noun form of master: a person or thing having control or authority. That's what the term "webmistress," as a feminine form of the word master, is all about - a woman in control. (The other definition for "mistress" that you cite in your edit earlier today, "a concubine," is clearly not what women who use the term have in mind.)
Finally, I am most troubled by your comment, "maybe in the future through arduous campaigning it may become prevalent." From this I infer you believe me to have a motive promoting the term "webmistress." This, I can assure you, is definitely not the case. As a Wikipedia editor, I report on what is, not advocate for what should or should not be. I pride myself on my neutrality in my editing, and strive not to let my views colour my choices on what should or should not be included in this encyclopedia. I said it before and I will say it again, you or I may not like the term, but it is -- and that is what an encyclopedia is all about: reporting on what is.
Regards, Kevyn 05:24, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
  • What is can in some instances be wrong. Today Google produced 9,140,000 results for "you was" and 103,000,000 results for "off of." Now does this mean that Wikipedia editors should write articles using and promoting these erroneous phrases? Many individuals act nonsensically, should you and I follow suit?

My suggestion was to acknowledge the existence of webmistress by leaving your "Use of the Term Webmistress" section intact but stating that webmaster can refer to everyone and is more common. Plus, in a modern industrialized society androgynous names are always the way to go.Patchouli 02:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Of course, if a female webmaster wanted me to call her a webmistress, I would not be obdurate and would listen to her.Patchouli 02:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I would caution against a comment like this, as it is another example of injecting personal opinion into an area that by definition, should be free of it.
Certain titles will invariably have two gender based forms in common usage, while others will not. For example -at a restaurant you have a waiter or a waitress, but a female bartender is never the bartendress. Similarily on an airplane, you have a steward or a stewardess, but the captain is always the captain. (I know that certain oranizations promote universal usage of the term waiter or steward, but the gender based forms of these titles will probably always remain in common usage).
This has nothing to do with sexism (though I'm sure some would argue this), it is mearly the peculiarities of the english language. The proposition of androgynous names and titles becomes almost impossible in other languages, French especially comes to mind, as even inanimate objects have masculine or feminine connotations. Regardless, you finding the term sexist is irrelevant to this article, except to say that "some people may find this term offensive". PanicTest 20:19, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Waitress is common today though no woman will be offended if you call her a waiter. Our family's experience indicates that not leaving a tip has a much greater likelihood of creating subdued anger towards customers.

Did you know that there are languages in which the same word is used for he and she? See Persian grammar#Pronouns if you need an example.--Patchouli 06:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

A few girls (teens) prefer to use webmiss. Should this be added? --Howard the Duck 10:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WebElder

In many classifications that indicate an individual's level of achievement, rank, or position, "Master" is very common. It is also often used to indicate, in a respectful manner, the relative age of the person so named. For instance "Master Lifter" is applied to those over a particular age that compete in powerlifting; you can probably think of many other examples. Apparently there is no term that is used to indicate that a "Webmaster" has achieved a certain level of experience by virtue of spending a significant amount of time in the field and having acquired an, assumed, wealth of "Life Experiences" (not fond of that term) by virtue of just getting older. This is a term of respect, but is not due to income, certification, or formal training. To this end I propose the title "Web Elder" to be used by those webmasters over 60 years old, with a minimum of 10 years experience as a webmaster, and being active in the field. Any thoughts?

  • Is there anyone rooting for web-builder or webuilder?--Patchouli 06:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merge of "Online Producer"

Disagree - Someone has proposed merging online producer with Webmaster and pointed the link here. I almost removed the proposed merge because that person should have started the discussion, not me. But I oppose merging Online Producer, because I am employed as an online producer and I am definitely NOT a webmaster! Online Producer is now a common occupation where broadcast media meets online media, so I guess the best solution is to find some citations (it's hard, as the best evidence is in job advertisements, which tend not to stay online: see google). Can you help? Any webmaster working in media will know an online producer is not a webmaster. Most online producers I know don't even have HTML skills these days. The webmaster article even mentions online producer as a different role. Tale 07:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the merge proposal tag, as it's about 1.5 months since it was tagged, with only my Disagree and no input from the proposer. The tag was also used incorrectly according to the merge guidelines as it was only placed on one of the articles. Tale 00:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Ah ... The merger proposal may have actually been an attack on my contributions, as I had reverted the user's vandalism to Sydney gang rapes. See User_talk:203.208.102.224 for what was going on at the time. Tale 00:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Webmaster Directory

I have created a directory called webmaster forums since it will be useful to webmasters to around world wide


The directoy only contains a list of webmaster forums not than any other thing

Dmoz only contains 12 webmaster forums

but my directory has more than 125 forums and why can't be it included in external links as it will be useful to webmasters —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramanean (talk • contribs) 23:56, 4 June 2007


Are you affiliated with this site?Ttrain88 (talk) 23:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)tom

[edit] Webmaster Resource

I am proposing that http://www.rippededge.net is placed into the webmaster resource.

I tried once and was told it was spam. I am not the owner nor am I affiliated. I often use phpBB for my web forums and this site, however new it is, was the first to inform me that the newest version was out. I also use the SEO-Friendly directory list all the time. They don't charge for much, just a few things here and there. I am sure it's not spam. I placed the link to help people out not to increase visibility to the site.Ttrain88 (talk) 23:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC) tom


The link should be Ripped Edge Webmasters Unite and lead to http://www.rippededge.net --- its very useful.Ttrain88 (talk) 23:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)tom

I am going to add it them, if anyone has objections please place them here before deleting it. Ttrain88 (talk) 17:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC) tom

I've objected and removed the link per WP:EL. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:41, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
This link does not violate any external link policy. The site is non-commercial and contains valuable current information.Ttrain88 (talk) 00:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't have a lot of information, and it's soliciting advertisements. Wikipedia is not the place to promote your website. OhNoitsJamie Talk 00:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
This is not my website. This is a collaborative effort of four other webmasters. The website is fairly new but I think solicitation of advertisements is acceptable as long as the purpose is funding of the site. Wikipedia accepts donations. The purpose of the effort at Ripped Edge is to provide a commercial free webmaster resource site that isn't motivated by sales of a product. As far as the External Link Policy is concerned this site doesn't seem to break the rules.Ttrain88 (talk) 00:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Edit: Doesn't seem to break the rules per my interpretation.Ttrain88 (talk) 00:55, 16 December 2007 (UTC)