Talk:Water birth

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[edit] NPOV again

This reads like an advert for waterbirth. I question the following statements, which require citation:

  • The warm water is relaxing and eases labour by reducing the excretion of adrenaline caused by pain and fear. The water also stimulates the release of endorphins.
  • The great majority of women who have experienced water birth say that they would never want to have a baby any other way.
  • There are some concerns with regard to water births, though most objections are because the idea is unusual.
  • Midwives and doctors experienced with water births have not noted an increase in infection rates for either mother or baby.

All of statements should be supported with citations from peer-reviewed journals, or removed.

129.186.205.228 15:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the above, and seeing as it's been almost a year since that was posted with little or no change (that I noticed) I have marked the page npov. I'm interested in the topic, though, so I will be conducting some research and hope to contribute some major edits (with sources provided!) soon. Erich Blume 15:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


I agree with the NPOV tag. This article seems to be biased and written by a supporter of water birthing. I was particularly concerned with the inclusion of a Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews article. Not by its inclusion, but at the blatant misreporting of the conclusions within that article. I have made some of the changes that I felt needed immediate correction. Misreporting the conclusions of a Cochrane Review is very poor form, confirms bias, and poses questions as to the motives of the author. Particularly considering the high regard given to Cochrane Reviews for their thoroughness and neutrality. I agree that this article requires a rewrite. Will see what I can do over time...just busy with my studies at the moment. Mtresillian 09:11, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Offensive

The reference to "primitive races" is confusing and potentially offensive -- does this mean human cultures or other species?

I don't know the history of water birthing, so I'll leave the editing to someone more qualified.

I agree. I've rewritten the paragraph. —Caesura 22:22, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I think the assertion in the History section that 'water birthing has been used by many past cultures' needs a reference. Which cultures, where, at what time etc? Gamsarah 11:51, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Needs a complete rewrite.

I'm new to wikipedia and not sure what the best way to go about getting the right people to look at this is. From what I have read, this article is clearly written entirley by a proponent of of waterbirth and is extremely POV. Quotes like "Some have thought that the baby can drown, but that fear has been shown to be groundless." are ridiculous. Who has thought the baby can drown? Who has shown this fear to be groundless? When? How?

Not being a doctor or an expert on this subject, there's not much I can really add myself. I simply assert that for any article that might influence a person's medical decisions must be completely NPOV.

Please sign your posts with four tildes. I think you are being rather critical and that if you are concerned you can be a little more polite about it and preferably do the research to improve the article yourself. Many people when introduced to the notion of waterbirth are concerned that the baby will drown, because they do not understand that the baby's breathing reflex is started by exposure to air. I'll attempt to improve the article. Maustrauser 23:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Righto. I have done a major re-write and removed the NPOV tag. Clearly some more references could be found and I'll do that over the next few days. I'll also attempt to write articles on all the redlinks. But that will have to wait a few more days. I've gotta have a life. Please make further improvements to this article. Maustrauser 23:37, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Karil Daniels film "Water Baby"

As I just explained to Karil Daniels on her user talk page, the material she added doesn't really belong in the "Research" section, and also should be rewritten to conform with WP guidelines re "conflict of interest" (Wikipedia:Conflict of interest) so it isn't perceived as "self-promotion". I told her I would move it here for the time being, so it can be redone and moved back to a more appropriate spot in the article -- perhaps a new section/heading for films, does anybody have a better suggestion?

Here's the material I removed from the article:

In the USA, Karil Daniels produced a multiple award-winning documentary, "WATER BABY: Experiences of Waterbirth" which first brought waterbirth to the attention of many hospitals and birth centers and popularized the waterbirth method in the USA and Europe. "WATER BABY" was the first film to document waterbirth and shows 4 actual waterbirths in home, hospital and birth center settings. It was made in France with Dr. Odent, in Russia with Igor Charkovsky, and in the USA with Dr. Rosenthal. An excerpt from this film can be seen at the Waterbirth Website. [[1]]

Cgingold 15:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Material re Water Baby removed, again

Even in a toned-down, less promotional version, this still doesn't belong in the "Research" section. However, after checking out the website, I confirmed that it IS an award-winning film that deserves mention in the article. (In fact, it probably merits an article of its own.) So I created a new section for "Resources", and moved 3 book listings there, as well. Cgingold 11:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Under the Advantages to the Babys section this article states, "Water eases the transition from the birth canal to the outside world, because the warm liquid resembles the familiar intra-uterine environment, and softens light, colors and noises." I was under the impression that newborns cannot detect colors. --Yoap 14:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV again

This article is seriously an advocacy piece. The purpose of these articles should be to give facts about the procedure that are cited by reliable sources, not to overcome objections. --Ryan Delaney talk 15:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

It is not a "procedure". That term implies treatment of a medical condition. Childbirth is a physical process not a medical condition. There is no set procedure. There are no rules. If women want to do it in water then why all this angst? Why not spend your energies on stopping unnecessary cesareans instead?

First of all, please sign your comments with four tildes. Second, Wikipedia is not the place to "spend your energies" starting, stopping, or advocating anything! Wikipedia is not a soapbox (this is one of Wikipedia's rules, which you should probably read). The argument on this page is not about whether the subject of the article is "good" or "bad", it is about whether the article takes a position on that question one way or the other. It shouldn't. Your opinionating here is inappropriate. I agree that this is an advocacy piece and should be deleted or rewritten. Wikipedia is for neutral encyclopedic articles, and the presence of anything other than that (regardless of whether it's "right" or "wrong", whatever the hell those mean) must be viewed as a defacement of Wikipedia. And it may interest you to learn that "procedure" (the word you dislike) is in fact a synonym for "process" (the word you used). Xezlec 03:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Introductory paragraph

I've rewritten the introductory paragraph to make it more encyclopedic. One thing which might be added to the introduction is some very basic (non-political) statistics; for example, the approximate number of water births that occur every year. (I'd avoid mortality statistics, as article introductions in particular should be as uncontroversial as possible.) I was unable to find said statistics after a quick Google search. Also, if I have mischaracterized the pro and con positions, I apologize. --ScottAlanHill 05:27, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Episiotomy

There is a phrase that reads "decrease the need for episiotomy". This conflicts with the general consensus that episiotomy is rarely or never "necessary" and in fact is detrimental...see the episiotomy page. I'm going to rephrase this. Cazort (talk) 02:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)