Talk:Watchmen (film)/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

POV concern

"yet staying true"?? This is speculation and heavily POV 24.33.28.52 15:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Very true. I've removed that bit. HighEnergyProtons 14:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you presenting this as evidence of veracity or something? The phrase "staying true" will be POV regardless.24.33.28.52 17:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Casting rumors

Until valid citations are provided for the casting of John Cusack, Daniel Craig, and Sigourney Weaver, these names will be removed until further notice. The sources of the rumors seem to be [1] (see Scoop 11, dated back to 2004) and [2] (dated back to 2003). Until then, confirmations such as the director will be allowed. Erik 21:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Release date

Is there any evidence of an expected release date? IMDb shows it's still in scripting phase, so 2007 or 2008 seems likely. --SidP 00:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I haven't heard any news about Watchmen or its release date lately, and I've been keeping an eye out for it. I added "TBA" for the release information just to clear up any confusion. --Erik 01:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

ew.com url

I don't know how to quote the url properly... Sorry for the all the stupid edits, but I don't know the right quoting method. The problem is wikipedia doesn't like the | in the url... stupid ew.--Aranc23 14:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I see the problem you're having. I changed it to an embedded link for the time being. I had moved it up from External links because someone wanted a citation for Moore preferring Hayter's script. However, seeing the extensive article at the link, we could move the link back to External links if whoever requested citation for Hayter's script is fine with a nondirect citation. --Erik 15:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Fixed. You can always escape characters in URLs as %hex; see URL normalization.--Oneiros 00:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Project history

I've worked out the chronology of the Watchmen project using a variety of sources to tie everything together in a kind of a timeline. The resulting section is obviously large and may qualify for its own article, taking up so much space. I'm not sure what the qualifications are for breaking down an article into multiple articles.

In addition, I took the liberty of removing a previous edit about Moore supporting Hayter's script. The reason I did this was that in my going through all the Watchmen sources, Moore had a lot of interesting things to say about why the comic book could not be adapted to the film. This could warrant its own section, as it seems important to have the writer's take on the adaptation. I will see if I can do this. Any thoughts on this?

Feel free to go through what I've added and make any contributive edits. If you feel that certain parts can be taken out, feel free to discuss with me here. --Erik 20:29, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

One glaring flaw in the Project history section that I hope someone can correct, is the changeover from Universal to Revolution. I could not seem to find anything to report when Universal had dropped the project (Revolution is under Sony Pictures, so it's not an extension of Universal). If anyone could add that information to the end of the Universal Studios subsection, that could fill in the only gap I can see in this particular section. --Erik 00:27, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
I've fixed this flaw. All the gaps should be filled in now. --Erik 05:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

applause

Just a brief notice here to acknowledge's Erikster's great hard work revising the entire article. ThuranX 22:36, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. There was certainly more in-depth information about this film compared to Batman Triumphant. :) --Erik 00:27, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Oh, now yer just picking fights. LOL. ThuranX 00:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Citations for use

Citations for use. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 13:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Tests of Dr. Manhattan?

There was a sentence at the end of the Production section about tests done of Dr. Manhattan. I reviewed the citation, which didn't give any more detail than that, so it seems rather vague for inclusion, or to surmise what the director could be referring to. I've removed it so hopefully the matter is clarified (and more detailed) in a future citation. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 14:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Rock Opera

It's odd and its offhand, but in an interview Darren Aronofsky mentioned that David Bowie had told him he was developing a Watchmen rock opera[3]. Is there any way/cause for this to be mentioned? --InShaneee 08:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It sits perfectly in the Watchmen article, and this is about the film. WikiNew 13:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Late 2008

Which citation indicates that the film will come out in late 2008? I only see mention of the release date in the lead paragraph, but nowhere in the article. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 17:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

A rather easy assumption considering Snyder will wrap filming this year. WikiNew 17:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

A stupid assumption. It assumes that it'll be completed with a minimum of post-production. Anyway, various interviews have said 2009--Isocyanide 05:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Care to provide links to these interviews? And don't be insulting by calling it "stupid". —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 12:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

alex tse script

The article might be a bit misleading. It says the Alex Tse script threw out the contemporary setting and restored the 1986setting. As I recall, Alex Tse's script was modern, complete with islamic terrorists. Snyder has said that he wants watchmen in it's original time period, but I don't think Tse's scripts have had anything to do with that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.238.216.161 (talk) 03:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

According to this, Tse's initial script was contemporary like Hayter's script. It's highly likely that it has been revised since to establish the 1980s setting. I'll see if I can re-word it to make the revision more obvious. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 04:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Podcast

Here's a podcast where Snyder is supposed to mention information about pre-production for Watchmen. Can anyone listen to the podcast and see if there's any useful information to be extracted? —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 14:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

How does one play it? The download icon appears and then nothing happens. Alientraveller 14:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Right-click and save seems to work for me. Might need to play it in a media player instead of your browser. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 14:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I just clicked on the link that says "Direct download: fbr_381.mp3" and it opened in Quicktime -- I'm at work, so it's a no-go for me, listening wise. María: (habla conmigo) 14:33, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for trying, anyway. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 14:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It was focused on 300 (Peter Jackson liked it) and the interviewers wanting him to handle every fictional property including an R-rated Star Wars, but Snyder did talk about budgets for Watchmen. He's having difficulties, Warners having "amnesia about 300 ever coming out" and the actors wanting "pay day" with a film they percieve to be like X-Men when it's an art-film. He also gave a thumbs up to a fan's idea of Will Wheaton as Nite Owl and took the mick out of Arnold Schwarzneggar playing Dr. Manhattan (I think it was him, I was just giggling). He also discussed a little bit on adapting the novel which I didn't find too interesting. For anyone wanting to dig up more, he starts discussing Watchmen around the middle of the broadcast. Alientraveller 15:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, anyway. Doesn't seem to be of that much use, and I personally think that the studio shouldn't think that Watchmen will be as successful as 300, despite having the same director -- they're two completely different films, despite their comic book nature. Also, the Will Wheaton mention is probably not worth including; it's like a reporter asking about Jude Law as a possibility and Snyder saying, "Yeah, sure" about it. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 15:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Variety

Some Variety citations that could replace existing citations. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 18:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

AICN Casting Rumours

I added info to the casting section about AICN's casting info that was published today. If this is inappropriate, all apologies, it seems relevant though even if they don't end up being cast. Fullmetaljacuzzi 21:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. Usually, though, when a movie website reports a rumor of so-and-so being cast and it turns out to be false, it's not really encyclopedic content. If the information is true, we'll cite an official source (from the studio itself) about the casting. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 21:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Another thing to note: Keanu Reeves is cast into The Night Watchman per this, so it would be kind of hard to believe that he'll be in two Watchman-esque films. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Doubt on Watchmen?

Aw, crap... —Erik (talk • contrib) - 17:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I question the context, however; he's talking about his lack of a role offer (and I always thought he would rule at The Comedian). So Butler may not be implying that Watchmen as a project isn't happening; just that it may not be happening for him. You can never tell with these tiny blurb stories with their shoddy copy-and-paste jobs. Here's to hoping! María (habla conmigo) 17:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

If Snyder's project fails, which I think it's more likely to not, this and the budget dispute can be good additions. Alientraveller 17:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Keanu Reeves

[4] has news that KR has officially said no. However, this is his fan club site, and it's the webmaster's claim of an email. Hopefully, we'll get a better source soon on this. ThuranX 11:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 12:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


Quote from Rorschach's page

Actor Jude Law is a fan of the Watchmen and even has a tattoo of Rorshach. He has expressed great interest in portraying Rorshach if a film of Watchmen is ever made (although he has stated he would probably end up playing Ozymandias instead). NemFX 01:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

And it's uncited there too. Wikipedia is NEVER a source for Wikipedia. It's the first rule, like don't talk about... well, you know already, and I can't talk about it. ThuranX 02:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
If you can find an attributable source like a newspaper quoting Jude Law about his tattoo and his interest, it would probably not be so vital for the film article. There is enough actual casting information that it doesn't warrant information about actors/actresses interested in particular roles. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 02:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Casting rumors, etc.

For those few instances (Cruise, Perlman), where things went beyond wishings, can we find dates to better put the meeting times into context? I know we're going off interviews which do NOT overtly reveal the dates, but even if we can put a year or season (Cruise's sounds like it was late 2006, as the rumors started in jan 2007, for example), then we can better contextualize how every stage of this process has been slower than pouring frozen molasses uphill both ways in the rain. Or whatever. ThuranX 22:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Moore on Snyder

As of now, Alan Moore has said nothing about the fact that Zack Snyder is slated to direct the film (though he has commented on the script, etc.). That's to the best of my current knowledge. I think that's quite significant. If and when Moore does comment on Snyder's direction of the film, I suspect he won't have much friendly to say of the director of 300. While that is just my own personal speculation, I do think the fact that Moore hasn't made any statements about Snyder or his proposed direction of the film should be mentioned in this Wikipedia article. Suggestions?--128.95.102.187 23:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

There's no source for nothign to talk about. Moore's reticence to see ANY of his works turned into film could be mentioned, but only in the context of adherence to the original script, because that' where it's relevant; Moore has said Watchmen was created to fully exploit the nature of the medium, and that any conversion would fail because of that. If a controversy section becomes needed (and this is NOT enough to warrant it), that might be the place to put such statements. Right now, however, a famously taciturn, reclusive comics writer who doesn't say much about anything he does after he's done with it doesn't mean much. ThuranX 23:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC) PS - please use four Tildes to sign your posts. found under the escape key, they would look, properly used, like this: ~~~~
I agree with ThuranX. You can't report non-information and personally determine that the absence of news is notable. If Snyder says something along the lines of, "I tried to talk to Moore about the film, but he declined to meet me," that could be included. Until something like that happens, there's nothing more to say. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
"No news is good news". Alientraveller 09:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This is not a matter of "reporting non-information." It is relevant that it be mentioned that "Moore has made no comments regarding Zack Snyder's role as directors" or something along those lines, because it is an anticipated issue. Also, Moore has expressed his views on at least one screenplay and one director. In a section on "Moore and Gibbons' response", it is relevant whether or not Moore has responded to perhaps the most important aspect of the film: who directs it. ThuranX's frustration at Moore for rejecting the possibility of a film adaptation shouldn't impede on the article's purpose of conveying information on the "politics", so to speak, surrounding the film.--128.95.102.190 22:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

There is already mention that the director hopes to speak to the writer. Because no dialogue has been public, the mention stays. When Moore says something public, that mention will be transformed into Moore's perspective of this recent incarnation. There's no need to surmise on our own the events that will or will not take place. There's nothing about Moore commenting on the Greengrass incarnation, and we can't expect that there will be a comment from him about the Snyder incarnation. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, Moore has commented on this project, and the comment has been included in the article. This should not be an issue any longer. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

San Fran Chronicle on Alex Tse (scriptwriter)

Here's a quote from CHUD.com:

Who is Alex Tse? Good question. The guy’s more or less a newbie – his only produced work was the pilot for the Showtime show Sucker Free City, for Spike Lee. I found a San Francisco Chronicle profile that describes him like this: “With baggy clothes, sullen face still unmarked by age and the occasional "hella" in his vocabulary, he looks and acts far younger than his 27 years.”[5]

The point of this is what? at best, this belongs on Tse's page, at worst, it's little more than the power of the pen as a bully pulpit, and non-notable. CHUD's not a reliable source for a character appraisal, and I'd wager that the SFC quote is taken out of context, and probably was used to 'introduce' Tse to the reader as the preamble to an interview. Non-notable. ThuranX 23:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Relax, ThuranX -- assume good faith. To the anonymous contributor, the information does not help define the film, but it could help define the screenwriter. I agree that it does not seem to warrant inclusion in the film article. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't ignoring AGF. apologies to IP if he thought so. Ireally mean it. For what purpose should we look at this material? Criticism ofthe writer? perhaps, but only on a blog, which aren't often Reliable Sources. The rest was just me analyzing and breaking down the blockquote to address why it's a poor source/addition. Frankly, this IP needs to register and come back here, hes' got two solid talk page sections in a row. ThuranX 23:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

On the one hand, I'd be fine with adding this to a wiki entry on Tse, but he's not relevant enough to have an entry (credits to one script). I think we should simply add a sentence about some critic' reticence towards his writing and then add footnote/references.--128.95.102.190 23:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

He wrote Sucker Free City, too. I found the San Francisco Chronicle profile that CHUD.com had mentioned. It provided some history for him, so I went ahead and created a bio article for him. Feel free to expand and explain his writing style. The citation's there. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Rorschach's Journal

Rorschach's Journal may be a viral marketing campaign. Ain't It Cool News mentions this possibility, and Network Solutions shows this. Not verifiable at this point, but something to watch for. Hurm. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 14:13, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Billy Crudup

The news about Billy Crudup portraying Dr. Manhattan is only a rumor provided by CHUD.com, citing "a very reliable source". This is not valid information to include on Wikipedia because rumors are by nature unverifiable. We would need a more attributable source, such as from the studio itself, to confirm this news. Zack Snyder will be talking about Watchmen (perhaps casting for it as well) at the upcoming Comic Con, so we should look out for coverage of his presentation -- that would be more attributable than this rumor. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 17:14, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Yup, looking forward to all the announcements at the Con. Alientraveller 17:15, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Official synopsis

Several movie sites have reported ComingSoon.net to have the official synopsis for the film. The synopsis seems to be written in an official manner, though I don't know if it's questionable. What are others' thoughts? This could basically outline the film for readers who are not familiar with the graphic novel (God forbid). —Erik (talk • contrib) - 18:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a press release, but I'm unsure if it's necessary. This article is currently a fork for Watchmen. Alientraveller 19:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
True, but not everyone will come here through Watchmen. Some may follow links from Zack Snyder or somewhere else, being unfamiliar with the project. If the synopsis is acceptable, it should be included to provide a stand-alone article where possible, like what was applied at The Lovely Bones. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Done. Alientraveller 19:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Couldn't have done it better myself. Good work. Now, for filming to begin already... —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:13, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Fake viral sites

Not sure if this is worth including. Thoughts? Could be part of history, what with the campaign for The Dark Knight and the weird stuff going on with Cloverfield... —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, crap. and after I submitted the morse code translations and all. ThuranX 04:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Hah! :-P —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Comics2Film identified it as being the work of TheOneRing.net ages ago. Alientraveller 09:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I know, I saw the comment you left me around that time. But I meant to ask: Does this information have a place anywhere in the article? Maybe in a Marketing section with the Rorschach test shot? The New York magazine should be a fairly attributable source... —Erik (talk • contrib) - 11:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
As it's faked, I don't think including it is encyclopedic. Further, Being the work of 'TheOneRing' didn't, on it's own, invalidate it's legitimacy. TOR handled many official releases of info for the LOTR production. This time, things worked out differently. oh well. ThuranX 15:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Poster

Here's the official release of the poster if anyone wants to upload it. http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=news&id=11238 76.241.94.187 22:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! It's been included. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 22:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Interview with Zack Snyder

IGN has a fairly interesting interview with the director about how he's approaching the film, but I'm not sure what details, if any, are worth including in the encyclopedic sense. It seems worth mentioning the director's comparison of the War Room in Watchmen to Dr. Strangelove and NORAD. There's not really any other explicitly important details, though. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:27, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


Carla Gugino

Has anyone heard anything about Carla Gugino possibly dropping out of the movie. She was recently taken off the cast list on imdb. Also she's shooting Righteous Kill until the end of October and Watchmen is about to start shooting next week. Does anybody know of any articles that relate to this issue. annoynmous 17:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I checked for headlines but found nothing. The Hollywood Reporter indicates that she's doing both Watchmen and Righteous Kill. Can't rely on IMDb, can we? :) —Erik (talk • contrib) - 18:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Watchmencomicmovie.com

Have any of you guys seen this sight. They have pictures from the set and according them there already shooting. They have pictures of specific scenes, like Doctor Manhattan meeting JFK. While some of these could just be small pre-shoots that aren't part of the main shoot, but they claim on the site that there already shooting with Billy Crudup in the Doc Manhattan suit.
I think someone should look at it and see if it's reliable. It's at [6]
If it's true than some adjustments need to be made on this page. annoynmous 02:27, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
According to The Hollywood Reporter, shooting starts on September 17. I'd wager that it's just some pre-shooting. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 02:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Neverthless don't you think we should at least restore the link to the site. The pictures look pretty legit so shouldn't the site be considered relevant. annoynmous 02:39, 13 September 22007 (UTC)
Under WP:EL criteria, personal web pages like this one are discouraged. In addition, the "news articles" at the web page depend on anonymous sources, which are not verifiable or even appropriate to be in the public scope. That's why we use reliable sources -- when information about the film gets out through them, the sources are backed by reputation and editorial oversight. This personal web page has neither. Lastly, I've seen a couple of other fan-based external links similar to this one that were previously added to the article, so permitting this one is just giving leeway to the rest of them. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 02:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Teaser poster

When we start a Marketing section, can I suggest moving the teaser poster to that section when it gets replaced by whatever new poster comes out? I think there's a Wizard citation that covers the teaser poster in pretty significant detail. Not often that a poster would get described like that, so I think it would warrant inclusion, especially in regard to the illustrator's involvement with the film. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, and yeah, given the long acrimony between the creators and the very IDEA of a film, it's notable that the artist returned like that. ThuranX 00:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Orci and Kurtzman rewrite?

IESB.net says Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman were bought in to rewrite Tse's script. [7] I'm unsure of whether to add this: how reliable is IESB? Alientraveller 09:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd probably hold off on reporting it -- there's no indication of the site getting the information in an official capacity, as SHH shows. If the information is true, it should come out through a more reliable source. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 12:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Consultant

According to this, Jim Kakalios, the author of The Physics of Superheroes is serving as a consultant for the film. The blog is run by Dr. PZ Myers, Division of Science and Mathematics, at University of Minnesota, Morris -- seems reliable enough. Include? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 18:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, but I'd rather include him until what he has actually done for the film is known and/or important. Alientraveller 20:11, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Sculptures

Kansas City Star reports on the usage of sculptures by four Kansas City area artists. Seems hard to fit anywhere right now, so I'm placing the headline here. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Starlog

According to this, there is a four-page article in the November 2007 issue of Starlog. If anyone can pick this up and include information from the article, that'd be great. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 18:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)