Talk:Washington's Birthday

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Contents 1 State holiday name survey 1.1 National list 1.2 State list (so far) 1.3 Alabama - Washington and Jefferson, or should that be Jefferson Davis? 2 This page is misnamed 3 "Presidents' Day" in first sentence, etc. 4 Native citizen? 5 Missouri Holidays 6 President's Day redux 7 Canada 8 Why 3rd Monday? 9 Rename Article to "Washington's Birthday" 10 Lincoln's Birthday

[edit] State holiday name survey

I thought it might be useful (or at least interesting) to do a state-by-state check of their names for this holiday.

My preferred method is to find a "legal holidays" reference in the state code, if possible.

If that is not possible, I look for calendars for state offices -- but problem with that is it is common for some state departments not to bother looking up the official state designations when making up their web calendars (commercial calendars / calendar software rarely follows official designations) — so if a site lists "Washington's Birthday" or "Daisy Gatson Bates Day" it is probably accurate, but if it lists "Presidents' Day" it may not necessarily be official.

Not surprisingly, Virginia uses "George Washington's Birthday"; but oddly Washington uses "President's Day." If anyone wants to join in, please do so. — Eoghanacht ^talk 20:08, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] National list

Why should it be by state. It's a Federal Holiday, so shouldn't the federal check take precedence over a state check?

• United States: Washington’s Birthday, the third Monday in February [1]

[edit] State list (so far)

• Alabama: George Washington/Thomas Jefferson [2]
• Alaska: Presidents' Day [3]
• Arizona: Lincoln/Washington Presidents' Day [4]
• Arkansas: George Washington's Birthday and Daisy Gatson Bates Day [5]
• California: The third Monday in February, no designation (CA Government Code §6700(e)[6]. Washington Day (CA Education Code §37220(a)(4))
  • Separate Lincoln Day February 12th (CA Government Code §6700(d); Monday or Friday of the week in which February 12 occurs (CA Education Code §37220(a)(3))
• Colorado: Washington-Lincoln day (Colorado Statute 24-11-101. Legal holidays)
• Connecticut: Washington's Birthday [7]
• Delaware: Presidents' Day [8]
• Florida: Washington's Birthday [9]
• Georgia: Washington's Birthday [10]
• Hawaii: Presidents' Day [11]
• Idaho: Washington's Birthday [12]
• Illinois: N/A (3rd Monday in February is not a state holiday, but Feb. 12 is a Lincoln's Birthday holiday) [13]
• Indiana: George Washington's Birthday [14]
• Iowa: Washington's Birthday [15]
• Kansas: Washington's Birthday [16]
• Kentucky: Washington's Birthday [17]
• Louisiana: Washington's Birthday [18]
• Maine: Washington's Birthday [19]
• Maryland: Washington's Birthday [20]
• Massachusetts: Washington's Birthday But in law only designates by date: [21]
• Michigan: Washington's Birthday until the 1990's, when TV started calling it Presidents Day Sale. (see Lincoln's Birthday below)
• Minnesota: third Monday in February is Washington's and Lincoln's Birthday MN Statute 645.44 (Subd. 5)
• Mississippi:
• Missouri:
• Montana:
• Nebraska:
• Nevada:
• New Hampshire: Washington's Birthday CHAPTER 288 HOLIDAYS Section 288:1 288:1 Holidays. – ..... the third Monday in February, known as Washington's Birthday;
• New Jersey:
• New Mexico:
• New York:
• North Carolina:
• North Dakota:
• Ohio: Washington-Lincoln day Ohio Revised Code General Provisions 1.14.C
• Oklahoma:
• Oregon:
• Pennsylvania:
• Rhode Island: Not a state holiday
• South Carolina:
• South Dakota:
• Tennessee: Washington Day [22]
• Texas: Presidents' Day [23]
• Utah: Washington and Lincoln Day [24]
• Vermont: Washington's Birthday [25]
• Virginia: George Washington Day [26]
• Washington: Presidents' Day [27]
• West Virginia:
• Wisconsin:
• Wyoming:

• District of Columbia: Washington's Birthday [28]

• American Samoa:
• Guam:
• Northern Mariana Islands: President's Day [29]
• Puerto Rico: Natalicio de Jorge Washington y de Luis Muñoz Marín [30]
• Virgin Islands:

I changed the Virginia reference because in the section of its code that specifically defines the holidays it's called "George Washington Day" not George Washington's Birthday. Many states have references to other names in their codes or adminstrative rules (particularly in sections dealing with schools and state employee benefits), however, I believe this list should reflect the holiday as defined in each state's code section specifically defining the state holidays. Whether or not some state agency adopted a rule using the wrong name is irrelevant.

[edit] Alabama - Washington and Jefferson, or should that be Jefferson Davis?

Is it merely coincidental that Jefferson Davis was sword in as President of the Confederate States on this day? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thequickbrownfox (talk • contribs) 17:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

According to Section 1-3-8 of the Alabama Code 1975, the third Monday in February is a public holiday celebrating both George Washington's Birthday and Thomas Jefferson's birthday. Jefferson Davis' birthday is also a public holiday in Albama, but it is designated to be celebrated on the first Monday in June.KEDS65 (talk) 00:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This page is misnamed

This holiday is not "really Washington's Birthday" as this article mistakenly says -- The whole reason it's called "Presidents Day" instead of "Washington's Birthday" is that this country used to celebrate both Lincoln's Birthday (Feb. 12) and Washington's Birthday (Feb. 22). These two holidays were collapsed into Presidents Day (in what year, I do not recall), hence the name "Presidents Day" and not "Washington's Birthday" or "Lincoln's Birthday," as the two days were called before BOTH great men lost a day unique to each of them. There is a healthy amount of editing that this piece requires to put it back on the right track.

---

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpersky (talk • contribs) 18:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

It should be Presidents Day, not Presidents' Day. (The day doesn't belong to presidents, but honors them.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.167.56.39 (talk) 18:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

I think once the state list is completed above, whatever name is most prevelent should become the name of the article. If that is "George Washington's Birthday" than I think the article should be renamed that.

This page should be named "Washington's Birthday", simply because the correct name for the U.S. federal holiday is Washington's Birthday. Here's the paragraph from US Code, Title 5 that defines federal holidays:

 § 6103. Holidays
        (a) The following are legal public holidays:
                New Year’s Day, January 1.
                Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr., the third Monday in January.
                Washington’s Birthday, the third Monday in February.
                Memorial Day, the last Monday in May.
                Independence Day, July 4.
                Labor Day, the first Monday in September.
                Columbus Day, the second Monday in October.
                Veterans Day, November 11.
                Thanksgiving Day, the fourth Thursday in November.
                Christmas Day, December 25.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.101.136.224 (talk) 22:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC) 

[edit] "Presidents' Day" in first sentence, etc.

First off, I offer my thanks to the many good additions to this article made in the past week.

About some changes I made today:

• Wikipedia standards pretty much require the name of article title should appear in the first sentence, preferrably at the beginning of the sententce. As much as I agree that the whole "Presidents' Day" myth is silly, it is (unfortunately) the most common name for the holiday and therefore should be mentioned in the first sentence.
• When I checked the Illinios state code, I could find no reference to a state holiday for Washington, only for Lincoln.
• I reformatted the links to other federal holidays using their legal names (such as "Christmas Day" rather than "Christmas").

As an aside, looking at federal holiday names, the apostrophe is used for possesive only (Washington's Birthday, New Year's Day). Holidays later created to honor someone (such as Columbus Day or Veterans Day) do not have an apostrophe. If "Presidents' Day" actually were a real holiday, it should be formatted "Presidents Day". — Eoghanacht ^talk 13:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Apostrophes are used for the possessive, but also for the closely-related genitive case. Whether or not you think that the day "belongs" to the presidents (which is arguable), it is most certainly a day of the presidents, and hence the genitive case. However, there is some overlap between the genitive case and attributive nouns, and in this case the officially correct form is sans apostrophe. Nevertheless, a case could easily be made for either spelling, and it is in no way "silly" that people get confused. It is also a little insulting to explain it the way this article does (along with the linked reference), and I'd prefer we either remove that or else update it to be more accurate. -- KillerDeathRobot 06:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little confused with what you are asking. The link in the article describes what is standard by the Writer's Digest Grammar Desk Reference and Associated Press Stylebook. Therefore, the section on the spelling of the word is accurate and up-to-date. By the way, the Government Printing Office officially styles the holiday as Presidents Day. --Write On 1983 07:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Right now the first sentence starts "Presidents Day (or President's Day)" Shouldn't the version in the parenthetical be changed to "Presidents' Day" in any event? Mergy (talk)

[edit] Native citizen?

The article says this is "the first federal holiday to honor an American-born citizen" (diff). This is deceptive. He was born in North America, but (obviously) not in the United States, which is what's usually meant by "American-born", I think. I think it should be reworded.—msh210℠ 16:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

obviously there talking about the Continent of america, America is what people call the us, but America is the continents of north and south america, maybe American-born citizen of the united states would be okay.--74.133.36.130 16:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)superchad

[edit] Missouri Holidays

Missouri sets aside separate days for Washington, Lincoln, and Truman. See www.mo.gov/mo/moholidays.html [31].

Incidentally, federal holidays apply only to employees of the federal government. At first, they applied only to federal employees in Washington, D.C. Neither the president nor Congress has the power to designate state holidays.

Herb Evans 15:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] President's Day redux

There's been some back-and-forth in the Spelling section and at the top of the entry about "President's Day."

Sylvain1972, forgive me for having to revert your latest changes, but they were based on erroneous information above on this discussion page. "President's Day," while you see it on Web pages sometimes, as you see every kind of spelling error, can be said in a factual and neutral way to be disfavored. I think the way it's expressed in the entry as it stands is the most neutral and accurate way to sum up the situation: while "Presidents Day" and "Presidents' Day" are accepted by language and usage experts and make logical sense (because they're plural), "President's Day" is today considered incorrect by these experts. If "President's Day" were some state's official designation for the holiday, enshrined in statute, I think it would make sense to add this information to the spelling section, although since dictionaries and usage manuals, not politicians, are the authorities on spelling and punctuation, unless a significant number of states embraced this spelling I would still be skeptical about treating "President's Day" as an acceptable alternative. But in fact, as far as I can find and as far as the list above shows, there is not one state that has legally designated the holiday "President's Day." The only two that were formerly on the chart were Massachusetts and Arizona, but both were errors: Massachusetts (as the article has long said) calls the holiday "Washington's Birthday," and its statute contains no legal name at all (only a date); and Arizona law calls the holiday "Lincoln/Washington Presidents' Day." (In both cases the old references above were to Web sites of government offices, but not offices whose role it was to make official holiday designations--in the case of Arizona it was the Department of Emergency and Military Affairs. In both cases other government pages contradicted the ones cited--the law is the sure place to find the official designation.)

In the end, then, while of course you'll see "President's Day" used in some places, it is an uncontroversial, factual, neutral statement to say that this is considered incorrect by language authorities, and it is incorrect, as far as I know, to say that it is officially embraced by any legal authority.

(Yes, it was spelled that way on a White House Web page, but (1) it wasn't for the purpose of setting out the proper spelling, just the transcript of a speaking appearance, and (2) the president is the chief executive of the federal government, and we know that the federal government officially designates the holiday "Washington's Birthday." The White House doesn't maintain a separate stance from the rest of the federal government on holiday names.) --Factman 00:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't entirely agree with you. To some degree, there can be no "language and usage experts" or "authorities" on the proper name of a mostly unofficial holiday that was recently invented by advertisers. Certainly, if users are attempting to celebrate two or more individuals and use "President's Day," that is simply a matter of improper spelling/punctuation, and language and usuage experts will rightly concur that they are incorrect. However, it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that some users have consciously chosen the singular, intending to celebrate the (singular) office of the presidency of the USA, or as an alternate rendering of "Washington's Birthday." In this case, the "authorities on spelling and punctuation" would concur that their punctuation is consistent with their intention. However, because the other two uses have been adopted offically by some states and "President's Day" has not, I'm content to let the article stand as it is.Sylvain1972 16:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I've incorporated some minor changes to your edits that hopefully clarify the relevant issues. Sylvain1972 16:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Canada

Why is the only picture from a display in Toronto? The article doesn't mention the holiday being celebrated there. I also don't know whether Washington is looked favorably upon by Canadians. -- Beland 20:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

As a Canadian I can tell you that many American holidays have small celebrations in Canada due to the large number of US citizens and immigrants from the US in Canada. It does still seem weird to use a picture from Toronto in the article. Are there no good pictures from an American city available? The picture may still be usable in a section about celebrations in other countries however a lot more than just a picture would be required. - S —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.180.31 (talk) 15:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why 3rd Monday?

Why is Presidents Day the 3rd Monday in February, rather than the 4th Monday? Washington's actual birthday, Feb. 22, is the 4th Monday, not the 3rd Monday.

• Probably to honor both Lincoln and Washington; it is celebrated between the 12th and the 22d (more precisely, no earlier than the 15th, and no later than the 21st). 216.179.123.198 (talk) 00:26, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

• I don't think that is the reason, since the holiday was intended to be specifically to honor Washington's Birthday, and was not intended to include Lincoln nor any other president. I read somewhere that they made a mistake when they wrote the bill, but that seems unlikely, and even if that was the case, I'm sure they would have changed it by now. In 1971 (the year that the bill took effect), Feb. 22 ironically fell on a Monday, so it would have been a 3 day weekend that year even without the move. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.64.197 (talk) 04:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename Article to "Washington's Birthday"

As this article clearly states, the correct, legal, and official name for this holiday is Washington's Birthday. If the name of the article remains Presidents Day, then Wikipedia is perpetuating a falsehood. Leave the misnomer for the press: they get most things wrong anyway. I used to work for the Department of Defense for an agency in Washington, DC. When they received their printed calendars for the year, the name of the holiday was always printed as Washington's Birthday. If the federal government can get it right, so can Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.205.28.100 (talk) 12:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Moved to Washington's Birthday. The official federal name should take precedence for the article name. Rillian (talk) 19:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lincoln's Birthday

In Michigan in the 1970's we had "Washington's Birthday" and "Lincoln's Birthday". I first heard of "Presidents Day" the 1980's when I read in an article in an encyclopedia that the Confederate states, not wanting to celebrate Lincoln's Birthday, combined the two and called it Presidents Day. Most people in Michigan never even heard of Presidents Day until the 1990's when national advertisers started hawking the "Presidents Day Sale". Someone asked me once (in the 90's) if Presidents Day was to honor all presidents or just the dead ones, and I replied that actually, it was just Abraham Lincoln, that the Confederate states renamed it Presidents Day. I've always considered Presidents Day to be a tad racist. Donnie Love (talk) 11:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

My Stupid boss wont let me off —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.166.64.153 (talk) 19:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)