Talk:Warsaw Metro

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Trains Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (assessment comments)
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale within the Trains WikiProject.

	Trains Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (assessment comments)
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale within the Trains WikiProject.
	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rapid transit.

WikiProject Echo has identified Warsaw Metro as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Polish language Wikipedia.

Contents 1 Older Conversations 2 My rewrite 3 Expanded 4 1927-1938-1973 5 Template:Warsaw Metro 6 Line II 7 future plans

[edit] Older Conversations

I really don't see what makes the whole kiosk affair so special. In most subway systems in the world its either private-run kiosks (as in Warsaw), kiosks owned by the underground operator (as in London and Paris, for instance) or some ticket vending machines (as in Madrid). In Warsaw the kiosks are located not more than 25 metres from the entrance (usually it's just 5 metres, opposite to the elevators or stairs) and every single station has them (at least one, that is; all stations in the city centre, as well as most in the area of Ursynów have kiosks on both sides of the station). Halibutt 21:45, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)

Kiosks elsewhere are one way of buying tickets, not the only way as in Warsaw. In most cities you have all three of the things you describe, making it as convenient as possible to buy tickets. In Warsaw you have only private kiosks, none of which are located directly in the stations (some are closer to the entrances than others, and not each entrance has an adjacent kiosk). This is, as far as I am aware, a unique situation for a subway. There are booths in the stations that were originally planned as ticket offices, but these have not been used for this purpose. Furthermore, the single ticket vending machine that existed (at Centrum) has (as of this writing) been removed.

It's almost fortunate that the Metro doesn't go to touristic points of interest, as this situation is very confusing to tourists. It also bodes ill for the future of the PKP; if the kiosk lobby can force them to take the ticket machines out of the subway, what hope is there ever for real reform of the national railway system and its much more powerful special interests? --ProhibitOnions 00:57, 2005 May 3 (UTC)

As to the kiosks - you are mistaken. I saw the original 1980's plans and the kiosks were to be located where they are now, I haven't see any ticket-vending booths marked there (I'm a huge metro fan myself). Also, for me there is little or no difference between a ticket office located 2 metres from the gates and a ticket office located 4 metres from it. Finally, the "single vending machine that existed" was simply a left-over of an extensive system of several thousands of vending machines that were bought for the entire Warsaw communication system in early 1990's. With the advent of the new magnetic tickets the system became obsolete and was simply removed, though there are still several such machines located in various parts of Warsaw (tram stop below the Castle Square comes to my mind as a good example). The whole problem with the ticket machines was that there were no cheap magnetic tickets available when the system was obtained and the city authorities (not the PKP!) decided to chose the cheapest system: ticket vending machines with ticket printers inside. However, when the new system was adopted, these machines were simply too old to be converted and could not cope with the thick tickets with magnetic stripe on them. As simple as it is... Finally, the large majority of commuters in Warsaw do not use paper tickets at all and use the Warsaw Travel Card instead, which can be obtained in almost every kiosk, post office and a variety of other places. And you can extend the validity of those in... vedning machines located, among other places, at the enterance of every single station of the Warsaw Metro.

As to location of the stations: two of them are located in some of the most visited parts of the city: Centrum, which is in the exact city centre, close to the Royal Road and the main train station and Ratusz, which is some 10 minutes walk from the Old Town (and less than 1 minute walk from such important monuments as the Saxon Garden, Arsenal, Garrison Church or the City Hall). So, your argument seems a tad strange to me. Of course, unlike Prague we don't have a station located right beneath the Old Town Square (such a station was planned in the original 1930's project, BTW), but still two of the stations are very close to the touristic points of interest.

Finally, the PKP is a separate company from the Warsaw Metro and has nothing to do with it (except perhaps for a 7km long railway track between the Kabaty Depot and the PKP railway net in Okęcie, which is shared by both companies). Halibutt 03:26, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'm familiar with the Warsaw Metro. Yes, I know the WKD is a different company, as is the PKP. Most similar cities have an integrated transit system; the Berlin U- and S-Bahn, for example, are run by different companies, but use the same tickets (also true in London, Tokyo, Seoul, and quite a lot of places).

The WKD merits a mention because it could be integrated into the system, too, and there have been some well-thought-out suggestions to do this, either by integrating it into the tram system, or at least having an on-street section, or by extending it into the city center, instead of the horrible, inconvenient terminus it has now. This would require coordinated planning, which is sadly lacking in Warsaw at the moment.

The PKP likewise possesses a network that could be turned into an excellent system of suburban railways, one that transit planners think would be immensely popular, compared to the decrepit, slow, crime-ridden system presently in place. It would work as an S-Bahn to the Metro's U-Bahn, and complement it very well. The ony thing stopping this is political inertia, as the PKP has sadly undergone no significant reforms whatsoever since the demise of socialism - it is a national disgrace, especially compared to the excellent Czech and Hungarian railway systems, which were in a similar position 15 years ago.

You point out that "two of [the stations] are located in some of the most visited parts of the city." Well, yes and no. As I pointed out, both Ratusz nor Centrum are compromises. If there had been two lines, one would have gone to Warszawa Centralna and one under Nowy Swiat. Instead, there's a line between the two. It's not bad for the Palace of Culture and Marszalkowska, though on the wrong side of the street, but a fairly long walk from the station or the Royal Way. Ratusz isn't in a bad location, don't get me wrong, but the Metro could have gone under the Old City, which couldn't be served well by any other kind of public transportation. A "10-minute walk" isn't close. The Metro route north of Ratusz to Plac Wilsona runs alongside a well-established and largely segregated tram line; a splendid opportunity to divert the route under the old town was sadly missed.

It is astonishing that neither the first nor the second Metro line goes to Warszawa Centralna (one proposal to use the cross-city tunnel for Line 2 would have, but now it looks like it will go under Rondo ONZ). My hope is that at some point they'll just abandon Centralna, as modernizing it would be hideously expensive, and build a more modern station on the site of the former 1939 central station. This would put it right next to Centrum, solving the problem.

It is also quite surprising that the situation as you described it exists, that after 10 years they still haven't really sorted out the ticketing for the Metro. Sure, there's a standard magnetic ticket, but again, those unfamiliar with the system often have trouble with it. Selling tickets only or primarily at kiosks is a common ticketing system for the tramways of the former Soviet bloc, but it's not how it's done in most modern metro systems; again, citing Berlin as an example, there are also kiosks near stations, but every station has at least four ticket machines, and the larger ones have ticket booths or travel centers. In London you have newsagencies in or near the stations, but also six or more ticket vending machines, and often an attendant who can sell them as well. Likewise everywhere else I can think of. Some Warsaw stations do indeed have booths in them that were intended for ticket sales; at least a couple of them sell flowers now. --ProhibitOnions 09:44, 2005 May 4 (UTC)

As to the PKP - you are unfortunately right on the inertia. My father works in the transport industry and I know plenty of sad-funny stories about oportunities the PKP missed. Lots of situations where someone decided not to spend a penny and did not earn a million for it...

As to the stations: the original project of the three-line underground railway (1927-1937) assumed that the two N-S lines were to start at Plac Unii Lubelskiej in the south and then run separately: one along the line of the present metro and the other beneath the Royal Road and the Old Town. However, after the WWII such an idea lost any sense: the other line would be used mostly by tourists, as there is barely anyone living along the Royal Road. Moreover, a line beneath the Old Town would be extremely hard and expensive to build as the "Trasa W-Z" tunnel is already there and one would have to build a really deep tunnel to pass it. And deep metro would be some five times more expensive. Also, the idea that the Metro should zig-zag after passing the Ratusz seems missed: it would have to return to the main axis (along the line it runs currently) since to the north of the Old Town there is only the Warsaw Citadel and nothing more. So, such a station would be only a waste of money, resources and time for most of the commuters, who usually travel between the city centre and the sleeping areas, not to the historical old town.

As to the metro station at Warszawa Centralna - it is indeed a missed opportunity, mostly because of the PKP bosses. However, a metro station directly beneath it would be a waste of resources, the present location of the central hub seems just as good. What Warsaw really lacks is a decent connection between Warsaw central station, central metro station and the central suburban station. Take note however, that there are plans to destroy the present Warszawa Centralna station, combine it with Warszawa-Śródmieście and move it closer to the Metro Centrum, which would solve the problem.

As to the tickets - the system is plain and simple, much more consistent that the systems they have in Poznan, Cracow or Paris, for that matter. And those unfamiliar with the system should not have trouble with it since it's explained on every single metro station (at least eight times on every station: twice on every enterance and at least four times on the platforms), in every train, bus and tram - in Polish, German, English, Russian and French. So, perhaps those unfamiliar with Latin or Cyrillic alphabets might have a problem with it, but the rest... Also, you're wrong that the kiosk system is typical to former Soviet Bloc: in most of the former Soviet Union the tickets are sold only inside of the busses or trams by the controllers or drivers. In Warsaw we have travel card machines on every station, kiosks on every station and travel centres on major ones (Centrum and Ratusz).

Finally, as to the booths: which booths you mean? There are indeed two booths on Wilanowska station, but these were intended as (and serve this purpose quite well) a cover for ATMs. I can't think of any flower-selling stands in Warsaw Metro. Perhaps you mean Bucharest? Halibutt 10:31, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

I'd have to look again, to tell you where the booths are, though I recall they're on the 1995 section. I finally rode on the Plac Wilsona extension on Saturday, and it's a very impressive piece of architecture. I hope they finish the rest of the line when they say they will, 2006 for the next two stations and 2007 for the rest sounds a bit optimistic to me.

You mention the problems of an Old Town metro station. These are certainly true, if the station were located at Plac Zamkowy, but if it were a bit further west (Barbakan, say), it could have bypassed the existing road tunnel, passing under Ul Solidarności instead, and still come very close to the Rynek Główny. Yes, the system as it exists was mostly thought of as a commuter line for the southern suburbs, which are otherwise very poorly served, but thinking ahead, it would have been a good move as the Old Town is one of Warsaw's most popular destinations, but not one buses or trams should be running through. The second line will go to Nowy Świat, and the two stations would have both ends of the Old Town covered. Ratusz is still relatively far away, and I think a 300 m eastward diversion of Line 1 and an infill station would have been thoughtful planning, but there you go.

I'm not wrong about the Soviet Bloc often having offboard kiosk ticketing, but you're right that in the Soviet Union itself you typically bought the tickets onboard from the driver or conductor. A scam I fell victim to in Moscow involved the driver refusing to sell us "rich westerners" (in reality, fairly poor students) the ticket, then having his ticket inspector buddies nab us at the next stop for fare evasion.

However, if the plans to abandon Warszawa Centralna and Śródmieście are real (and I certainly hope so; if nothing else, the sale of the real estate would bring in some money to finance a new station), then it would make the location of Centrum perfectly logical. The route of Line 2 makes more sense if the suburban lines in the tunnel are brought up to modern standards, to avoid duplication. There's plenty of capacity in the tunnel for mainline and suburban trains to run from one station, it's just poor organization and antiquated track management techniques that have failed to bring this about.

I don't know if you're familiar with him, but Adam Fularz is a strong critic of the PKP and has gone to great length to document this at [[1]] and [[2]]. I mentioned the potential refurbishment of the Warsaw railway system as an S-Bahn-type suburban railway, something that every transit planner I've met thinks would be a great idea and the PKP hasn't done anything about (apart from the new "Kolej Mazowiecki" paint job on some of the dilapidated trains). Here's his discussion paper: [[3]] I don't think he talks about the Metro or the WKD enough (in terms of their future role) but I think the intention is to keep speculation down to a minimum.

One more (slightly off-topic) thing about the Warsaw suburban railways, is that every time we have used them we have encountered some very nasty, impolite "ticket inspectors" on them, whose main interest is to write people tickets for fare evasion (even if they're on their way to find the conductor to buy a ticket), "excess baggage" (ie, I had a bag), etc.; I assume they make a commission each time. This is how the PKP responds to declining revenues. --ProhibitOnions 11:52, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

Sorry, but the idea of a station located beneath the Old Town is simply impossible to introduce; at least not as a part of the present North-South line. Even a station under Barbican would be extremely hard to build: the metro line would have to zig-zag in order to avoid crossing the East-West Road (Trasa W-Z), and even if it by-passed it, it has to go really deep beneath the ground to avoid the extensive net of drainage lines and sewers built below the Old Town during the last four centuries. So, such a station would have to be much deeper than the rest of the line, which would be really expensive. In addition, there's the damn Vistula Escarpment, which is a technological nightmare.

But even if we forget the difficulties with a single station located well outside of the main axis of the rest of the line and much deeper than the rest of the line: where would such station be located? In the area of Barbican there's simply no place for the exits, you'd either have to destroy much of the area, construct the exits and then rebuild the houses - or locate the exits right in the middle of the narrow streets of the Old Town. The Freta street, which seems the most logical choice, is only some 7 metres wide and pedestrian only, which makes it quite a bad choice for a station. All the other streets in the area are even more narrow. The easiest option would be to build the station below the Vistula Escarpment, right between the Royal Castle or in the area of Mariensztat. However, such a station would be too far from the main line, would be extremely expensive to build and would be equally distant from the Old Town.

As to the whole Warszawa Centralna and Warszawa Śródmieście stations thingie - there are plans to combine them since the late 1970's. However, the main problems are the inefficient structure of the PKP and the money. Hopefully, after the construction of the Golden Terraces right next to the present train station, the city will finally decide waht to do with the area around the Palace of Culture. And, most probably, the plan will also include a new train station. Alternatively, there are plans to move the main train stations outside of the city centre and use the tunnel mostly for transit and suburban railway. We'll see...

--Halibutt 18:48, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] My rewrite

Hello everyone, never been to Warsaw, but do know a lot about metros. Here is what I have done in this matter User:Kuban kazak/Metro. Now although I can see that some people have began writing station articles named name... warsaw metro station I have re-modified the template to look like name... (Warsaw Metro) because that is how I set up all of the templates of the FSU metros. Although I suppose it does not really matter, so for the time I left the wikilinks in the timeline as they were, really it is your choice to move the articles if you want or modify my template. --Kuban Cossack 02:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Good job. I corrected the tad about the Soviet system a bit since it's pretty common in all places where there are three lines. Unless the town is a coastal one, the metro lines can cross in three basic ways and I wouldn't link the specific design with Soviet Union. Also, the Prague Metro, although build after the war, was designed before WWII and had little to do with the Soviets either. Halibutt 07:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Have alook at urbanrail about Prague. Most of the technology was closely borrowed from Soviet Union, including rolling stock. Most of the stations are built to a similar technology. It is true that most cities do have this triangle layout, even outside the formed Communist block, but nevertheless those are usually partly subterranial, whilst Prague and Warsaw are, like ex-Soviet systems, all deep level. --Kuban Cossack 12:49, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Also about the template, why add wheelchair sighns if all of the stations have disabled access? Wouldn't that fact better be suited for operational facts rather than line template? --Kuban Cossack 12:52, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, the technology in Prague (and even the internal design of the stations) were borrowed from the USSR. The lines however were designed as early as 1930's (which is also mentioned in the article on Prague Metro). What you suggest was true to the 1950's design of the Warsaw Metro, which was to be a Moscow-style tube; the design however was dumped soon after the works started. The 1980's design was completely unrelated to it and was pretty genuine (also in that it's a shallow tube, not a deep metro like in USSR; the deepest station in Warsaw is 12,2 metres beneath the ground, that is some ten times closer to the ground than the deepest stations in London or Moscow). And there are currently no plans for extension of the 3rd line to reach the city centre so the "triangular" crossing is rather counter-factual (http://www.metro.waw.pl/grafika/3linie6_d.gif).

As to access for disabled - I saw it on one of the US tube charts and thought it might be a good addition. I could expand the chart, but couldn't find a list of all the possible line and station icons. Is there any? Halibutt 13:18, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Just one simple point. Please take a careful look at Image:Metro warsaw.jpg. Note that the 3 lines do not form a triangle anywhere! And there is no plan for them to form a triangle in the foreseeable future. Therefore, the whole discussion about topological resemblance to Soviet-designed triangle-like systems is pointless. Balcer 04:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Balcer, the original plan called for a triangle (although with lines 2 and 3 touching each other rather than crossing), and the present plan is just a scaled-down version of this, eliminating line 3 to the west of Praga. Given the Soviet influence on the Metro, and the fact that the plan had always been for a triangle, it's not entirely irrelevant to mention this. ProhibitOnions 23:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

If anyone wants to expand the discussion on the evolution of the metro design, and how the early conceptions were influenced by metros in Soviet cities, they are welcome to it, of course. However, the plans have changed much since then, and now no longer resemble a "Soviet" design, so I don't see why that connection needs to be discussed in the Future plans section. Balcer 01:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expanded

Being a metro fan myself, I expanded the article a tad to include the pre-1983 designs. I also made a map of the planned 1st phase of construction, the one halted by the outbreak of WWII. I'll add all the planned lines to it as soon as I have some time.

I also checked the mysterious Soviet triangle and it seems it was someone's own invention. Indeed, there was one of the 1984 projects (out of 7 variants), but it was turned down. Instead, the third line was to join the second one, cross the river together and then again part on the other side (check here for the original plan). So no triangle planned in any measure. Halibutt 18:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Correct me if I am wrong but would the second line be at least partly deep level?--Kuban Cossack 19:30, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Au contraire, the Metro was planned as a triangle layout from the start, with the present planning only a truncated version of this. The map Halibutt shows makes this clear: It's a triangle layout. The only minor variation is that the lines 2 and 3 meet (or would have met) tangientially in Praga, touching rather than crossing each other; they crossed the Vistula at different points and there were three transfer stations. Otherwise the three-line setup was indeed a classic Soviet-style triangle. The map at Urbanrail.net makes this clearer. [4] Even the previous four-line plan was the same triangle with a crescent line overlaid on it; again, typical of four-line Soviet systems. ProhibitOnions 20:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Frankly speaking I'm not sure. However, I would find it highly unlikely. Firstly, the population density of western Warsaw is mostly low (areas destroyed in 1939 and then in 1944, and rebuilt after the WWII mostly with with commieblocks), and the main streets wide (Wolska, Świętokrzyska, Powstańców Śląskich and so on), which would allow for the tunnels to be built by open excavation, that is by using a much cheaper method. Only in the city centre the tube would be built with mining shields, as was the case of the first line. Secondly, the method of crossing the Vistula is still not decided yet and some still prefer ye olde idea of the tunnel going out of the ground by the river and crossing it on a bridge (much like in Kiev). That's why building a deep metro would make little sense, at least when it comes to economy. Finally, the short trace tunnels left after the 1950's are well outside of the modern axis of the proposed 2nd line - and completely unfit to modern subways, so there'd be little sense in utilizing them. Halibutt 20:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you talking about the construction of line 2? ProhibitOnions 20:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Just wait a second, ok? Two edit conflicts in a row... As to what Prohibit Onions you wrote above, I couldn't disagree more. None of the plans I know except from one of the variants mentioned the triangle in the city centre. The plan you linked to is indeed a stub of the earlier plan I posted a link to myself. In all, contrary to what's been suggested here, if the current 3rd line was not shortened, it would not cross the 2nd line at all, so no Soviet triangle. Instead, it would share part of its line with the 2nd line and then proceed to the south-western part of the town, still being south of the 2nd line. If this is also a part of the Soviet school of metro design, then we'd have to agree that all multi-line metros in the world are modelled after the one in Moscow. Including those built in 19th century. Halibutt 20:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the planning maps, there was no shared central section, and the current plans for a truncated third line were only developed in the last five years, based on the part of the existing plan that was provided the best return on investment. I realize you are a Polish patriot, so I will use the term "Prague-style" to refer to the triangle layout instead. Despite how your example map looks at low resolution, Lines 2 and 3 were not planned to share a central section but to cross the Vistula at two different points, meeting in Praga at a single station; the only difference to the Prague-style layout is that instead of crossing, they would meet at a tangent instead. Even so, this is a Prague-style triangle: three lines crossing in a central area at three different stations. This is what was planned for the Metro; although exact plans were never finalized, what was likely was Line 2 meeting Line 1 at Ratusz or Swiętokrzyska and Line 3 meeting Line 1 at a new station at Plac Konstytucji. There was no shared central section, and there still is not; presumably the intent is to leave the option open to build the full triangle in the distant future. As I say, don't take my word for it, look at the Urbanrail.net map. ProhibitOnions 20:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's a higer-resolution map of the 1984 Metro plan Halibutt mentions above, showing more clearly that there is not a shared central section, but two lines crossing the Vistula separately (probably one of the main reasons this part of Line 3 got the axe, it would have been expensive). ProhibitOnions 21:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly what I said. The plan you posted is just a recent evolution of the earlier plan I posted (well, in fact this is but a sketch of one of the possible variants). As to the rest - wrong again. The problem with the third line was that it was to either share the tunnel with the 2nd line - or with the railway tunnel beneath the city centre. Of course additional tracks would be built and the tunnels would have to be extended, but still, the 3rd line was to be composed of two distinct lines joining the 2nd line.

Anyway, unless you could post some source, I still believe you are wrong. As I already said, I never heard of the 3rd line crossing the 2nd line, be it at a joint station or anywhere else. The 3rd line was to be the southern W-E line (to some extent modelled after the pre-war variant of the southern arm of the F line) while the 2nd line was to be the extension of the pre-war C line (also E-W axis).

BTW, I'm fine with Soviet-style metros as I'm personally a huge fan of any subterranean railways in the world and would love to see the Minsk metro or Moscow one (never been there). Which does not have anything to do with my patriotism or lack of such; the problem here is with lack of sources. None of the books I read nor the newspaper articles the Warsaw Metro Fans club collected mentions any kind of Prague-like or Petersburg-like solutions. No three-line crossing in the city centre as only two lines were to cross the third one, but not each other. BTW, the triangular system seems to be rare in the former USSR as well. Where exactly was it used? Halibutt 23:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

EDIT: Bah, that's the map! The good ol' crossing at the Plac Konstytucji variant was dropped as early as 1985, together with the station itself. They are considering construction of that station some time in the future, but it is highly unlikely the 3rd line will ever join it as the city's structure has changed considerably since 1970's when the variant was first prepared. Also, it was decided that no metro line is needed to go to the scarcely-populated area of Okęcie International Airport as it would be too expensive and barely used. Instead, they're building a fast tram there, possibly partially combined with the Warsaw-Radom-Kielce railway. Same goes for the obsoleted concept of the 3rd line going as far as Józefów, practically doubling the nearby sub-urban railway. Nowadays nobody is able to afford a metro line built exclusively for areas of villas with low population density and that's why the 3rd line was cut also from the eastern side. So, all in all, I was wrong. Indeed, there was a stage at which they were considering to build a 3-line crossing in the city centre. It was merely one of a dozen or so plans and was abandoned 2 years after it was accepted, but indeed there was such a thing. Halibutt 23:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the plan as shown here had some weak points (another is that the red line in Praga runs along the river's edge, essentially halving its potential catchment area, and there's zero coordination with suburban rail) but it was the indicative plan until 2002 or so, until financial reality intruded. Plac Konstytucji wasn't dropped in 1985, simply because no real plans beyond Line 1 existed until three years ago, when Line 2 and the stub of Line 3 were codified. I have a 1987 map that still shows Line 4, so there was a lot of wishful thinking and a lack of preliminary engineering involved, except for the first line. At least three of its stations were built as potential interchange points, and the Plac Konstytucji station option was left open, which left a lot of room for future expansion that was yet to be decided. ProhibitOnions 13:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Check again, Plac Konstytucji was to be located at the very end of the southern arm of the very first line, the part built by excavation. And, more importantly, the part built simultaneously. And from mid 1980's it was already known that the station would most probably be dropped - hence the works there were limited to mere tunnel construction, contrary to all the rest of the stations built to the south of it. Perhaps with the exception of Kabaty, which was AFAIR built as the last one (hence its design being the same as the modern central stations and different from all the rest in Ursynów, designed in mid-1980's). //Halibutt 17:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, interesting. I'm moving that picture over to the article so it doesn't get deleted.

Another question: Which station (and tunnel) was used in Kieślowski's Three Colors: White? The Metro wasn't finished at the time, so there were no signs visible, and the "hitman" scene takes place in a tunnel, not a station. (One wonders why all the lights were on, but hey.) ProhibitOnions 22:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

There's a new, detailed map of Line 2 at [5]. You might look closely at Line 1, Halibutt — it shows a station at Plac Konstytucji. Interesting.... ProhibitOnions 00:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

1. I shortened the caption to indicate that it was not the plan.
2. No idea, never saw the film
3. Sure, they did not dump the idea so far. It's been only postponed and nobody knows when (if) the works are to be started there: simultaneously to construction of the 2nd line, before or in 2139... In any way, Muranów is much higher on their priority list (dropped much later than the Pl. Konstytucji station; read a nice interview lately). //Halibutt 04:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1927-1938-1973

All right then, I finished a set of two fairly decent svg maps showing both the first stage of the 1927-1938 metro and how would it look like after 35 years. Source is the same as the one I added to the article, though at times it wasn't clear what would be the best place to set up a station - and definitely the original plans would change a zillion times during those 35 years. Nevertheless, this was the original plan and I believe it could be added to the article. Any idea how to make it fit? Also, I prepared a short table with the projected lines and the streets the lines were to run over. I'll post it below in case someone could make it fit into the article as well. Any comments/ideas/whatever? //Halibutt 00:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

	A Line Mokotów: plac Unii Lubelskiej-Puławska-Marszałkowska-Main Train Station-plac Napoleona-plac Saski-Old Town-Muranów-Dworzec Gdański train station-plac Wilsona: Żoliborz
	B Line Wola: Wolska-Chłodna-Mirów-plac Saski-Nowy Świat-Karowa-Vistula river-Dworzec Wschodni train station: Praga
	C Line Ochota: plac Zawiszy-Chmielna-plac Saski-Nowy Świat: City Centre
	D Line Mokotów: plac Unii Lubelskiej-Aleje Ujazdowskie-Nowy Świat: Old Town
	E Line (semi-circular) Muranów: Powązki-Okopowa-Towarowa-Grójecka-Batorego-plac Unii Lubelskiej: Mokotów
	F Line (semi-circular) Mokotów: Fabryczna-Vistula river-Aleja Stanów Zjednoczonych-Praga Południe-Grochowska-Dworzec Wschodni train station Dworzec Wileński train station-Praga Północ-Vistula river: Muranów
	G Line southern city centre: WUT campus-Chałubińskiego-Mirów-Lubeckiego: Stawki

Looks great, but what was your source for this? If this was a serious plan it ought to be in the article. ProhibitOnions 22:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Check the image description page and you'll know. //Halibutt 04:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I did, for the second one you say "Map of Warsaw." Could you be a bit more specific as to who developed it, not just where you found it. ProhibitOnions 08:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Here you go. The plan was published in 1935 by the city of Warsaw itself. It's PD now, BTW. //Halibutt 17:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Warsaw Metro

I gave the template an overhaul, most significant change is that now you can navigate by clicking on the dots, and moved the edit function inside the box, also I made the text smaller, but that can be reverted on demand. --Kuban Cossack 22:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Line II

It seems things are developing rapidly in recent weeks. The plans for building line II have become much more concrete. It appears this line will now have two branches, effectively absorbing Line III. The current buzz is that the whole system (27 km long) will be built in one go in 2007-2012. That will make it one of the biggest infrastructure projects in Europe. Anyway, I think we should add a new section devoted to this project. Balcer 19:40, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] future plans

section Future plans: A common ticketing system for SKM, KM, WKD trains, metro, trams and buses is once again availlable.( http://inforail.pl/text.php?id=4780 ) The second line will not be complete by 2011, as the article states; the first line has, I believe 23 stations not 21, by 2008 however 21 stations have been built. --Adrian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.76.40.142 (talk) 03:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)