Talk:War of the Regulation

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This article claims that the Regulator movement was a precursor to the American Revolution, but I think more the opposite is true. It was not a conflict between colonists and the British as much as it was a conflict between western backcountry colonists and eastern coastal colonists. The Regulators were not upset over British policy -- they were angered by the abuses of the colonial government and local colonial officials, who were appointed by the colonial governor. And Tryon's army was composed of eastern militiamen, not British redcoats. The sources around the internet say this as well -- including the Columbia Encyclopedia, which states, "Tensions remained, however, between the western farmers and the tidewater aristocracy". [1] Unless someone has some evidence to the contrary, I'll recompose this article somewhat. -- Trivial 18:21, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tardy response-- while it is true that the farmer's grievances were not with Britain directly, remember that at this time the "tidewater aristocracy" was set in place and supported by the British government: in effect, they were the British government in the colony. Also, the experience of banding together to protest and defy appointed authority is very much a precursor to the revolution. -- Mwanner 22:50, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Under "Leaders of the Opposition" the article says "Governor Josiah Martin, succeeded Governor Tryon in office just after the end of any major rebellion." This doesn't make sense to me - Martin succeeded Tyron after any rebellion, but then Tyron regained control until the next rebellion? Even if that is true, I feel that this sentence needs some disambiguation. --63.237.83.160

In response to Trivial, I'd have to say that making this distinction in the case of the Regulation and not in the case of the war itself is folly. British authorities and the encroaching influence of the Anglican Church (inarguably an arm of Britain in its relationship with government and gentry) in back-country NC was a huge factor in the Regulation. The fact is that in a colonial war, most troops aren't going to be imported. It's not practical. I won't quote numbers, but I think you'll find the great majority of troops in the Revolutionary War (like in the French and Indian War) were in fact regionally organized.

Second, I'd like to note how poorly-written this article is. Half of the statements (as our IP-identified friend above notes) are entirely unintelligible and misleading, mostly as a result of simple grammatical problems. I'll take a look at rewriting it when I get time enough to pick this total garbage apart. -- fearwig 23:24, 20 Sep 2005

[edit] Confusing

Wait, were the regulators the tax collectors, or the people against tax collectors? Seems to me that whoever was against tax collectors would be more likely to be Patriots --AW 20:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a little late for a reply, but the Regulators were pissed off at the tax collectors (mostly). But you see the catch with the Regulation is that the issue was power structure and representation in the North Carolina Assembly. Due to the large county imbalance in the Assembly, eastern counties had much more representation in the Assembly than western counties.

As it turned out though, many of the colonial leaders in the Revolutionary War from North Carolina were in the Assembly, and were part of that entrenched power structure in the eastern part of the State. This sectionalism didn't really give way until the Constitutional Convention of 1839. –Pakman044 01:24, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable edit

"In 1764, several thousand people from North Carolina, mainly from Orange, Anson, and Granville counties in the western region (that also included areas within present day Notheast Tennessee), were extremely dissatisfied with North Carolina officials whom they considered cruel, arbitrary, tyrannical and corrupt." (emphasis added)

I'm not really sure it's accurate to say that northeastern Tennessee was really involved. They had similar issues, but the primary phenomenon radiated from the past area of Orange, Anson, and Granville Counties (there was some activity I think in Charlotte too I think, but I don't remember)...which back then was pretty much was western North Carolina. I'm not going to revert this though because it's been nearly ten years since I last did any kind of research on this topic (and I more or less stuck to the Orange County components). –Pakman044 06:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. The Proclamation Act of 1763 forbade white settlers from living or even traveling anywhere on the western side of the Appalachian Ridge...in theory anyway. Enforceability was to be left to only 7500 British troops. 98.16.44.16 (talk) 09:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The Proclamation of 1763 didn't stop settlement to the west, so that doesn't disprove the northeast Tennessee claim. Rather than saying "northeast Tennessee" it probably makes more sense to say "upper Holston Valley area", since the early settlement was in southwest Virginia as well as northeast Tennessee. I don't know whether the people here took part in the War of Regulation -- the area was only just beginning to attract settlers at the time of the war. One could argue that there was at least a connection between the Regulator movement and the upper Holston Valley. The book A History of Appalachia has a few passages on the topic that suggest a connection.

One passage: Significant settlement in the Watauga area and the upper Holston Valley had begun in 1768 after the Treaty of Hard Labor secured the area. Persons moving down the Great Valley of Virginia had built substantial settlements on the upper Holston by 1772. A number of those who came to the Watauga and upper Holston area were upcountry yeomen who had participated in the Regulator Movement, a protest movement of Yadkin-area farmers who had been defeated ... at the Battle of Alamance in May of 1771. And a second passage: The Regulator Movement (1767-1771) was particularly closely associated with Appalachian settlement, for it as the Scotch-Irish and German settlers who had migrated down the Valley of Virginia and then out of the mountains down the Roanoke River into the Yadkin country, who formed the backbone of the Regulators.

While neither passage indicates that settlers of the Holston/Watauga area journeyed east to fight. It sounds more like the migration pattern down the Valley of Virginia (Shenandoah, New River Valley, Holston Valley) had settled the Yadkin area first and only after the Regulation Movement collapsed (or just barely before) did the pattern include settlement in the upper Holston and Watauga areas. It's not impossible that people from what is now northeast Tennessee took part in the Battle of Alamance, but even if they did they must have been few in number. A more likely relationship, it seems to me, is that some people who had only recently settled the Yadkin area, joined the Regulator Movement only to be defeated, decided to move west, joining the more recently arriving kith and kin coming down the Great Valley directly into Tennessee. (of course, this book could have it all wrong too!) Anyway, I just wanted to add these comments. I agree with the removal of the northeast Tennessee claim. If nothing else, it seems like the kind of claim that needs a reference citation to stand. Pfly (talk) 07:52, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Good research, good response. My main objections start with the beginning of the sentence "In 1764,...". The timing is all wrong for any kind of inclusion of Tennesee settlers into this fight. It would need a citation to support it as you point out. Why do I object?..because I believe the author has confused regional ties with that area that occurred after the fact. Every reference that I have found about Tennessee (with regard to the War of Regulation/ Battle of Alamance) occurs after the Battle in 1771. The Watauga Association doesn't occur until afterwards. Hence, there is no foundation for a 1764 claim. Additionally, I don't believe anyone from that region came down for the Battle...wikipedia has been the only reference that I have seen so far to make that claim. Can someone name a source?69.69.213.157 (talk) 19:36, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

More on the Proclamation Act of 1763. You are correct in that it didn't stop western settlement, that is why I said "...in theory, anyway"...but I believe that it created a new western boundary for the jurisdiction of the office of governor for the Province of North Carolina. No land claims west of the Proclamation line were recognized and therefore the individuals weren't subject to the Governor or taxes in the conventional sense. They were by theory, however, subject to having their pockets rolled out and having to pay duties for whatever they transported with them every time they crossed the Proclamation Line. But what grievances would they have against Tryon and other NC Officials? The Proclamation had been royal and this money wasn't to flow through the Governor's hands. 98.16.44.16 (talk) 22:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

All preceding IP addresses in this section were written by me...have new login. Any way to get them associated to my user handle?Berean Hunter (talk) 01:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] State Militia?

Under causes is the sentence "Ultimately they brought in state militia to crush the rebellion, and then hanged their leaders" (emphasis added).

Was there truly a state militia in colonial North Carolina?

Snowgen (talk) 19:09, 20 March 2008 (UTC)