User talk:WangKon936

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[edit] Battle of Myeongnyang

Hiya; thanks for your edits to this battle article. People are always making little changes here and there, having edit wars over the number of ships, etc, and you're one of the first I've seen to make some quality edits. However, I do have one question. Originally, the first sentence of the Prelude section read "Due to the factionous politics of the Yi Choson era court..." and you've replaced Yi Choson with Joseon Dynasty. I am not a Korean historian, and I do not know who or what Yi Choson is, but doesn't the Joseon Dynasty last several hundred years? Not exactly accurate to imply that its politics were factionous for that entire period, is it? Let me know what you think. Thanks. LordAmeth 12:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

LordAmeth, thank you for the compliments. In my eyes, many of the useless edits have come from ignorant Korean nationalists who think they need to exaggerate in order to make Admiral Yi and Korea look good. I am Korean American and have spent most of my years in the West Coast of the United States so I'm in touch with both cultures. At the same time I believe the best way to gain visibility and respect is to give the most honest and fairest account. The exploits of Admiral Yi Sun Shin stand on their own and do not need any embellishment whatsoever. Any attempt to do so only tarnishes his legacy and embarrasses Koreans in general.
Regarding my background, I am a financial professional by trade and a avid amateur historian at heart. However, I take my hobby seriously and make sure my insights are backed up by facts from verifiable sources. Furthermore, I maintain relationships with true historical professionals and often converse with them. For articles related to the Imjin War, Dr. Eric Niderost, professor of History at Chabot College and author of several Admiral Yi articles in Military Heritage magazine and Osprey Military Publications, has agreed to look over my Wiki articles. I will be editing more Yi related articles as I find the time to do them, so please keep an eye out. Thanks. WangKon936 11:15, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Panokseon

Looking great, I see you have it marked as being edited, be sure to convert any 'Panokson' into 'Panokseon'.... mrw Feb 23 2006

[edit] WikiProject Military history:

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[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter, Issue I

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter
Issue I - March 2006
Project news
From the Coordinators

Welcome to the inaugural issue of the Military history WikiProject's newsletter! We hope that this new format will help members—especially those who may be unable to keep up with some of the rapid developments that tend to occur—find new groups and programs within the project that they may wish to participate in.

Please consider this inital issue to be a prototype; as always, any comments and suggestions are quite welcome, and will help us improve the newsletter in the coming months.

Kirill Lokshin, Lead Coordinator
Current proposals
  • Proposed guidelines for categories of military people are currently being discussed. A number of issues have already been resolved, but the proposed scheme is still in draft form and further input would be very welcome.

delivered by Loopy e 05:54, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue II

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[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue III - May 2006

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[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue IV - June 2006

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[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history Coordinator Elections!

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[edit] Military history WikiProject coordinator election - vote phase!

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[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VI - August 2006

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[edit] Re: Interested in being an assistant corrdinator

See Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators, particularly the latter two sections and the various links from those. We're set to have the next round of elections sometime in February; if you want to, you can put yourself forward as a candidate at that time. Kirill Lokshin 01:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)



[edit] I assume you the same WangKon from China History Forum?

Who's this? WangKon936 05:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Im never on CHF I just browse I have seen you there but Im a member of AE Forum and a couple of others nice seeing you on Wikipedia. Sorry It took so long to respond.

-Easternknight 08:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

sorry not really I usually just do lots of small edits improving areas only by degrees an revert vandalism. and adding things to Wikiporject Korea "The Big Red List" which unforutnalty no one ever seems to work on. even though theres no article I did most of the Science and Technology in Korea. though I plan on making an article for it soon. Also Goguryeo-Sui Wars and Korean Martial Arts. BTW can you give me infomation on mostly Southern Korean Kingdoms Armor like Silla,Pakchae and also Kaya? and in general stuff like Koryo and Joseon etc. I want to improve the Korean armour Article which is almost a stub. Jegal 00:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Did you get anything for Korean Armour? Jegal 00:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you BTW I also signed up for the meditation. Care to fill me in on the role? Jegal 22:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:MILHIST Coordinator Elections

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[edit] WikiProject Military History elections

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[edit] Korea history's behavior

Regarding Korea history (talk · contribs) -- I understand that you are not his/her keeper (as you are not his/her brother and not even necessarily characterizable as a countryman), but would it be possible for you to, from a different standpoint, also make it clear to him/her that his/her behavior is unacceptable? I would appreciate that. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 14:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] On the dispora of fallen Goguryeo peoples

I'm quite concerned about what you said on the Goguryeo discussion page with regards to the fate of the Goguryeo people: Goodfriend. I don't think you really have learned yet some key points of the research process. I'm guessing that your not in college yet or you are just an undergraduated because of some the conclusions you come to would not fly in a typical college term paper. You cannot make the logical jump of saying most Goguryeo people followed Dae Jo Young to found Parhae because no primary source says that. I've asked you before and I'll ask you again because you don't really quite seem to get it. But do you know what a primary source is vs. a secondary source? The best way to address the question regarding the Goguryeo population diaspora would be to look at the New History of Tang as well as subsequent sources in the Samguk Sagi and other Koryo documents. All sources directly imply that most of Koguryo's population was taken against their will by Tang and was spread all throughout the empire. Even Korean scholars will admit: The Goguryeo royal families and pro-Tang nobility were allowed to resettle in the Chinese capital, but most of the emigrating Goguryeo people were forced to disperse around open spaces in remote periphery provinces... Now, only the poor, old and frail were left behind in Goguryeo's old territory, and many of them fled to Malgal (Mo-ho) and Dolgwol (Tu-chueh) territories. [1] Furthermore, Kim Pu Sik, in his commentary on Koguryo at the end of the Koguryo Pongi says that most of Koguryo's population was relocated by Tang. The New History of Tang's section on the origins of Parhae has Dae Jo Young talking with his fellow commanders about how best to deal with Tang as they tried to begin their Kingdom. They talked in terms of Koguryo because it was the best example they had personally of the kind of state that they wanted to establish. Dae said that at it's height, Koguryo could deploy 300,000 fighting men to fight against Tang. Dae, saying that most of his soliders were Malgal tribesmen, could only deploy 100,000 men at the most. That would not be sufficient to resist Tang and they had to be careful about how to best handle the fragile situation. This means several things. First of all that south and central Manchuria had be severly depopulated and secondly it meant that Dae could not rely on Koguryo warriors to assist him. WangKon936 22:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I've read Kim Pusik's commentary on Koguryo at the end of the Koguryo Pongi, and nowhere does it say that "most of Koguryo's population was relocated by Tang". And as for "Korean scholars", I see that you've quoted Kim Hyun-sook. But in that work, she says "large nubmers", not "most". As discussed above, simple research on the dispersion of Goguryeo people after the downfall of Goguryeo would show that a large number of them were absorbed as Chinese. According to Kim Hyun-sook, three forced relocations took place, citing Samguk Sagi and Old Book of Tang. And if you add them up in total, it is about 200,000. Lets be very generous and add another 300,000, including prisoners. That's 500,000. Assuming Koguryo's population at the time of its fall was 3,500,000, how possibly can dispora of Koguryo people to Tang account for "most" of Koguryo population? As far as historical records are concerned, I believe the vast majority of Koguryo people is unaccounted for. It should be noted also, that by the time Tang would make its final forced relocation, it already lost control over northern Korea. Cydevil38 10:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Cydevil, you really should set up your userpage so I can comment directly to you. In anycase, I'm trying to take a fairly balanced view here so I can have the credibity of all parties involved. This means that I'll support Korean views many times, but at some times I won't. If I dogmatically take the Korean view all the time, then users, particularly mediators, will just think I'm a nationalistic crackpot who deserves to be ignored and not taken seriously. Anyways, regarding Koguryo's population. You are correct, Kim Pu Sik does not mention the dispersal of Koguryo's population in his commentary, but it is actually in the last kwon (the 10th) of the Koguryo annals in the Samguk Sagi. My apologies, but it's been awhile since I've read it and I got the placing confused. Anyways, it does imply that most of Koguryo's population was sent to Tang (although it is important to indicate that it does not directly state so):
"In the opening year of the Yongsun/Yongchun永淳era (682) [the former king] died whereupon the emperor granted him the posthumous title of Chief Minister of the Court of Imperial Regalia and ordered his body transferred to the capital where rites were performed to the left of his tomb at Xieli and in front of the tomb a memorial stele was erected. The [Koguryŏ] commoners then scattered amongst the various prefectures of Henan 河南 and Longyou 右. Some of the poorer amongst them remained in the various former fortresses near Andong fortress. There were some who fled to Silla while others went to live amongst the Malgal or Turkish tribes. And so were the chieftains of the Ko line finally extinguished." WangKon936 20:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I understand your efforts to stay neutral. And I believe others interpret those "Goguryeo commoners" as the commoner class of those who were taken. Goguryeo prisoners who were taken to Tang were again relocated back to southern Manchuria, but after Bojang's attempted rebellion, commoners were taken to mainland China, while others remained. Cydevil38 05:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The depolulation of Koguryo after its fall is also suported by what we know of Parhae's population. According to Tang sources (and that's pretty much all we have since nothing of Parhae's survived) Parhae's population was only 100,000 households, or 500,000 to 600,000 people. Evidence in Tang and Heian Japan would suggest that a majority of that population was Malgal. Thus, if Koguryo's population was 4 to 3.5 million people and Parhae's population was only 5 to 6 hundred thats a differential of 3 or more million! WangKon936 06:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I've talked about this with a history major here in Korea. What he had to say that census in the past is not very reliable because they were mostly collected for military conscription purposes, and conscription standards varied from time to time considerably. That aside, Tang's records I believe wouldn't be as accurate as the one on Goguryeo because Tang never had direct administrative control over Parhae. Anyways, I don't think this is very important in the end. There is no definitive evidence for the dispora of Goguryeo people, and I think it's best to leave it at that and leave the bickering to modern politics. Cydevil38 06:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, the genetic study you cited is severely outdated, so I'd recommend against using it in the future. Cydevil38 10:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I have readily admitted that the study is rather dated and that my source is weak. The bigger question is, why in the world are we talking about Korean genetics in the Koguryo talk page. Nonesense and an absolute waste of time. We should of never gotten baited into that conversation. WangKon936 20:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Just tell me. What's wrong with this passage: Goguryeo is considered one of the foundations of the Korean collectivity by the Koreans. It is also considered an important regional kingdom in Manchuria by the Chinese. I believe that passage presents both views fairly. So what's wrong with it? Cydevil38 05:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Materially, it seems okay, but the problem is that the statement above invites a Chinese rebuttal. For example, the opening few sentences can say stuff about how Korea believes Koguryo it is the root of their nation, etc... but then you have characters like Assault11 say, "then why can't we give the PRC rebuttal that it was a tributary / vassal state of Tang, blah blah blah." I've come to believe that one great weakness of Koreans (and something that the Japanese are very strong at) is our lack of sophistication and subtlety. We don't need to put all that we believe in the intro section. We can use the body of the entire article to strengthen our claim in direct and indirect ways and thus achieve more in the long run. WangKon936 06:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
In fact, the "PRC rebuttal" that it was a part of the "Greater Chinese nation" is something I wouldn't mind, as long as those who claim so are clarified - either Chinese or "some PRC historians". Simply say how Koreans and Chinese view the state at the end of the paragraph, if it must be mentioned in the introducotry paragraph. Goguryeo is considered a powerful independent kingdom, and one of the foundations of the Korean civilization and collectivity by the Koreans. On the other hand, it is considered an important regional kingdom in Manchuria and a part of the ancient Chinese Empire by the Chinese. Cydevil38 06:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proceeding with the Goguryeo mediation

Hello! : )

This is Daniel Bryant and Armed Blowfish from the Mediation Committee, and as you may be aware, we are mediating the Goguryeo Mediation Committee case.

We are sending you this message as you are one of the involved parties in this dispute. Recently, a private wiki was set up for private mediation by the Mediation Committee. As noted by the Mediation Committee policy on confidentiality, mediation is confidential, and therefore the Committee has decided in this case to hold all mediation discussions in this case on the private wiki. Therefore, we need you to get an account so the case can proceed.

To request an account on the private Mediation Wiki, please click this link to email Armed Blowfish. Please include "Goguryeo" somewhere in the subject, e.g. "Private wiki account request for Goguryeo mediation", to note that this email has highest priority. If you do not have email enabled on your account and are unable to use the mail feature, please let us know on Armed Blowfish's talk page.

Thank you so much,
Daniel Bryant and Armed Blowfish (mail), 04:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Would it be possible for you to do what is outlined above as soon as possible? Many of the parties are itching to begin, and it'd be great if you could get on board too. Cheers, Daniel Bryant 05:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)

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[edit] Mediation

Hello! We believe enough participants have signed up for us to begin mediation. However, if you have not yet signed up for the MediationWiki, please do so.

Those of you who have signed up can log in at the following URL using the username and password sent in your account creation email: http://www.southportbeekeepers.co.uk/medcom/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Goguryeo:Noticeboard

Be sure to watchlist this page, if you have not done so already, and check it regularly: http://www.southportbeekeepers.co.uk/medcom/index.php/Goguryeo:Noticeboard

There are questions for you to answer here, and you should watchlist this as well: http://www.southportbeekeepers.co.uk/medcom/index.php/Goguryeo:Opening

Thanks!

Armed Blowfish and Daniel Bryant, 07:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Final word on the recent dispute

I'll let this one go. But it will be another story when this article is to be graded or when there is a proposal to feature this article, as its integrity has been compromised significantly to avoid a revert war. Cydevil38 07:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling

Hi, I just noticed that you reverted my edit from last week to the article Goguryeo, where I fixed a spelling mistake (similiar -> similar). I am completely confused by why you did this, especially because you claim to be able to contribute with a professional level of English. I have made the edit again. Please do not revert it without good reason. Thanks, Ynhockey (Talk) 22:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I'll be more careful next time regarding spelling. WangKon936 16:09, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Provinces of Balhae

If you have the time, can you please verify NPOV and accuracy of this map? Cydevil38 03:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Let me talk to Dr. Renkel about this. Please give me some time. Thanks! WangKon936 16:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Don't sell any of your Korean Books on Amazon

I Will probably buy all of them unless Wangkon936 on Amazon is a different WangKon? :P assuming your listmania are actually books your selling? Jegal 02:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Uh, no. They are books I'm recommending, not books that I'm selling. WangKon936 15:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


I know that now, thanks Jegal 00:10, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Rfc

See Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Jiejunkong. (Wikimachine 03:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC))

Wangkon, do you agree that Jiejunkong & Assault11 should be banned from editing on NPOV & naming disputes? B/c if you do you should sign at the Rfc. Or it'll get deleted very soon. Thanks. (Wikimachine 22:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Military history WikiProject coordinator selection

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[edit] WikiProject Japan taskforces

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Please let me know if you have any questions, and thank you for helping out! ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Compromise

Wikimachine has alleged that you are compromising edits in favor of Jiejunkong on 丸都 at Goguryeo talk. Please clarify if that is true. Wikimachine and others are messing up your original edit on 丸都. They have even hijacked your edit by claiming that they need to correct a badly written and compromised edit in Jiejunkong favor. Please look into it. Wiki Pokemon 00:36, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Military history coordinator selection

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[edit] WP:ANI#Long time abusing Wikipedia by Japanese editors from 2channel meat/sock puppets

WP:ANI#Long time abusing Wikipedia by Japanese editors from 2channel meat/sock puppets
Talk:Sea of Japan#2channel meatpuppets from 朝鮮人のWikipedia（ｳｨｷﾍﾟﾃﾞｨｱ）捏造に対抗せよ 21diff

Hi, WangKon936, I just come to inform you that you have been exposed to 2channel, Japanese famous bulletin board. Unfortunately, many Japanese editors seem to have abused Wikipedia with the threads for a long time (over 4 years!) The most extreme example in these days is shown at the Talk:Sea of Japan. The discussion set up three days ago, but I let you know of this now.

I translated some of information, but the threads are too many, so if you have a time to look at it, please visit the links listed there. I also add the diff in case you come to the page much later. If it is archived, you would find it in No. 380 or 381. Or use Special:Whatlinkshere Thanks. --Appletrees (talk) 02:41, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

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