Talk:Walther P99

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[edit] Specs on P99C

We need to add the dimensions of the compact P99C variant to the specifications table.


Here, feel free to add this in the article.


Model-: P99C AS Caliber-: 9mm Barrel Length: 3.5" Dimensions, L/H/W: 6.6"/4.3"/1.3" Weight (without Mag): 18.7 oz. Sights: 3-dot adj. Magazine Capacity: 10 Rounds Trigger: AS Trigger Weight: 11 lbs./5 lbs.

Source: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10002&catalogId=13152&langId=-1&productId=58942&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=43803 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.211.55.164 (talk) 01:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Magazine Capacity

Does anyone know why Walther changed the magazine capacity from 16 to 15 rounds for the 9mm version?

I cannot cite you the exact place I read it, but the column of 9mm rounds, at 16 was so tight that it caused problems for some users when inserting a the fully loaded box magazine. Hence, Walther made it 15 rounds. I've been able to handle the 16 round mags and can tell you that you need to be forceful when inserting them into the grip. Almost unnecessarily so. For what it's worth, you can just buy the SW99 magazine @ 16, I think they are still made; these will fit the Walther without a problem. But only if your state of residence allows for high capacity magazines ;-) --Sirimiri 08:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of magazine capacity I just did an edit relating to the section on that. Someone added another state after California and I was going to just fix the plurality error, but decided to just delete the state reference instead. So many states and localities including california, hawaii, ny city, dc, mass, and new jersey have magazine limits that could impact the p99 and full cap mags I don't see any reason to discuss them here. If you're interested in that information you need to be looking up state assault weapons bans, not the p99 entry imho. - Soy - 12 August 2006.

[edit] Leave the James Bond

While I agree with not listing every fictious event in which it appeared, the P99 is deeply woven into the James Bond's movies.

Some sort of note about this does seem in order since it's a Bond icon. Just as long as it stays sort of brief and doesn't grow into a huge listing of pop culture occurences like before. --Junky 14:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

It won't. People will come in without reading the talk page and add reams of info about Splinter Cell or this and that movie, and will bludgeon the article with more fictitious references. I think the "P99 in pop culture" is a good category for it, maybe with a link at the bottom of this article? --Sirimiri 00:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Again, people are trying to add "James Bond" info into the beginning of the article. The importance and main thrust of this encyclopedia article is the weapon itself. A small blurb about Bond in pop culture wouldn't hurt, but placing it near the top muddies the primacy of the article, in my opinion. In the past, it has also invited subsequent edits that make the article become a paean to Bond, the P99 in all sorts of fictitious video games, movies, etc. and the consensus among users on this page was that such stuff belongs in a "P99 in popular culture" article. --Sirimiri 16:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Agree with Sirimiri, rather have no mention at all of Bond than a section that grows out of control with all sorts of references to video games. Perhaps a wikilink to the James Bond can just be added to the See also section with a small note, but I wouldn't lose sleep if not even that is included. Deon Steyn 09:54, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anime "users"

The P99 is only made in 9x19mm and .40 S&W variants. There never has been (nor probably will be) a .45 caliber version. Smith & Wesson DOES however make the SW99 in .45, however it doesn't look all that similar to the Walther, even though the latter makes the receiver for it in Ulm, Germany. So I've removed the anime info about a character using a .45 P99, as a fictional character using a fictional version of a factual weapon is too far removed to be encylopedic. --Sirimiri 03:20, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite, caliber issues, etc.

Well, I just finished a major edit. First thing I'd like to point out, that the P99 is sufficiently distinguished from the Smith & Wesson 99 that the two are not considered to be the same handgun. Hence, the P99 is only available as 9x19mm (i.e. "Luger") and .40 S&W. If somebody has hard evidence to the contrary, please feel free to share it.

Other than that, I wikified the article for firearms terminology, and tried to make it a little more readable, especially for those unfamiliar with the design of firearms and how they work. --Sirimiri 04:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

There are some 9x21 P99s floating around Europe, and I believe they still make them in that caliber, but I'm not positive on that. 9x21 has never been imported to the US though. --Junky 18:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Hello again, Junky. Well, the 1st generation pistols were available in 9x21mm, in small amounts, and you actually can/could get one from a FFL dealer here in the US, depending on what state you live in, of course (California obviously not). I looked at the [Umarex/Carl Walther website] and could not find any mention of the 9x21 caliber availability for the current (2nd generation) pistols. This is not to say they don't exist, but the manufacturer doesn't even have it on their webpage, so I don't know if they are made? Of course, we don't want to be US-centric in this article, so maybe we look at the wording of the currently manufactured calibers and make sure it makes it obvious that the 9x19 and .40 S&W are currently made? Perhaps make no mention of the 9x21 unless somebody else has verifiable proof of a 2nd generation pistol available? --Sirimiri 01:09, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rail mount

I just changed Picatinny->Weaver, but I'm not really clear if that's correct or not. I don't really understand mounting systems, but I think Weaver is a subset of Picatinny and that many things desiged to be mounted on a Weaver rail will not work on a Picatinny rail. What's important is that if someone wanted to buy an attachment for the P99s Weaver Rail, they might assume anything listed as Picatinny type is compatible, which it may not be. Folks really want to buy things desigend for the Weaver system. I'm only talking about the 2004 models on, the older proprietary mounting system wasn't very popular. --Junky 22:50, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Junky, I think it actually was a proprietary rail that was changed to the Picatinny type, see: http://www.gunfaqs.org/P99FAQ/VIII/10.html Let me know what you think. --Sirimiri 03:40, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if I was unclear, yes it was a proprietary rail that was changed to a Weaver type rail, not Picatinny, according to the Walther website. They are similar but not exactly the same: here's a good page that cleared it up for me: Pic/weaver --Junky 17:29, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In Fiction

The fiction section is getting out of hand. It's a spiffy looking gun and has shown up in lots of TV/Film/Comics, but I don't really see the need to enumerate every time one was on screen. It's becoming too lengthy and diluting the article with information that isn't really important. I think every entry in the list should be removed except for James Bond, as Walther and the P99 are actually woven into the plot and history of the series, not to mention Walther acknowledging this with the MI-6 version of the gun. I'd also be happy with blasting the whole section and saying something to the effect of it appears in numerous movies, tv series, anime, etc. --Junky 22:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Junky, I agree....I mean, how many references does one need? Walther has cachet as "Bond's gun" (whether PPK or P99) but all this anime and Hollywood stuff...blah. It's a very "technical" looking firearm, I'd say beautiful (moreso the 9mm than the .40S&W) which might explain why it shows up often on TV, games, and movies. Cut the fat, leave Bond. Let's wait a week or so and see what other people might have to say? --Sirimiri 03:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
If you don't want the list here, how about moving it to an extra article? Like, for example, Walther P99 in popular culture. They made a similar list for FN P90. --Koveras 10:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
This sounds like a good idea. Like I said, the P99 is spiffy looking and has shown up in a lot of pop culture pieces, almost as many as the P90. --Junky 03:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I can add: P99 was the gun not only of James Bond, but also gun of German policeman Alexander Brandtner from "Kommissar Rex" TV series (do you remember the famous German Shepherd?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.0.210.102 (talk) 15:20, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Air gun versions

I added some info about air gun versions of the P99 yesterday, but it was reverted. I'll put it here if anyone wants to add it. If a picture is required, just leave me a message on my talk page.

There are two air guns available that share the look and feel of the P99. Both are practically the same weapon, but the Umarex version is slightly cheaper.

Kallemax :) thanks for you interest in the Walther P99 article. I can definitely understand your point of view in adding an "airgun" version of the P99, but I think Junky and I might look at it more as a firearm issue, in that we are talking about a pistol that uses traditional pin/hammer stuck cartridges, is used by military/police, extracts & ejects spent casings like most any other semiautomatic firearm. In short, while there may be a an air pistol version of the P99, I don't see it meshing well into this article. Again, that's only my point of view. Also, since the article is based on a firearm, we had ALL sorts of extra stuff eventually added to the article, things about the P99 "in fiction" and if you read the page history/discussion, the consensus seemed to gravitate towards *not* covering P99 info that wasn't related to the actual firearm itself. What do you think? Perhaps you could start and article P99 (airgun) and add specific information there, and link the pages? You probably have some stuff ton contribute for it, no? I saw a decent photo on the airgun page. --Sirimiri 00:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I completely agree with Sirimiri, imagine what the AK47 page will look like if all plastic toys, airsoft, airgun and goodness knows what else is listed. I know in this case the "copy" is a licensed one and a little closer to the real article, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. At best it could warrant a "see also" link to a Umarex page (had there been one) or MAYBE an external link. I would like to point out that your info is also not completely accurate: both these airgun copies you refer to are made by Umarex and not Walther. Umarex also make "official" licenced copies for Beretta, Colt and Smith&Wesson all no doubt sold directly by those companies too. They all use the same CO2 system and rotary 8-shot magazines, see Umarex page. Deon Steyn 06:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Agree here as well (obviously since I reverted it). If it's not designed or made by Walther, then it's not a Walther P99, and certainly not a variant of a Walther P99. As for the CP99, the different model number (ie not P99*) certainly makes it deserving of it's own page. --Junky 19:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I just had the revert similar airgun variants from the Walther P88 page (also Umarex versions).... perhaps someone should just create a page for that? Deon Steyn 11:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I have created a new page with some basic information called Umarex air pistol for this type of information. Deon Steyn 11:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Where is the Maruzen Airsoft replicas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.232.250.81 (talk) 03:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a firearms related article and not a forum for toy guns. Koalorka (talk) 04:31, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proof marks/importation

Besides being highly US-centric, does anybody else think that this additional information is of any value to the article? The P99 is made in Germany for markets all over the world. A summation of all the importation troubles the P99 might have had over the years just doesn't seem worthy of an encylopedia. Opinions? --Sirimiri 06:09, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with you, someone just dumped it in here and I had to correct the sub heading level and remove as much as possible of the US-centric POV. Even after cleaning it up I also still question the value it adds... unless perhaps this little sub section was changed to cover all "proof marks" (and then it's heading could also be changed simply to Proof marks, but even then it is perhaps a little bit too detailed? Deon Steyn 13:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah it's just trivia. Definitely not encyclopedic. --Junky 21:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I actually added the proofmark information. One of the more common questions or misconceptions we see on the walther forums is that people think their new P99 is made in part by smith & wesson because it bears their mark. For a brief period of time S&W did make some parts though. Needless to say this creates alot of confusion. Given both companies are firearms manufacturing companies this is understandable. If I didn't see it misunderstood so often I would agree that its just trivia. The proof mark is a german thing, the importation mark is a US thing. Presumably other countries have similar importation stamping laws and users can fill in the data from their localities. If I didn't hear people ask why the marks are there so often I would agree they are not encyclopedic.

Yeah it's a common question, one I had myself too. But FAQs don't really belong in an encyclopedia. Some nice FAQs are linked to at the bottom of the page, and I think that's fine. I don't think the article should have info on how to strip the gun and what to lube and what lights fit the rail and who makes holsters or any other FAQs. --Junky 16:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Agree – it doesn't belong on this page (I didn't add it). I do however think one sentence describing this confusion as part of the SW99 sub-section makes sense and adds value without becoming a FAQ or "how-to". What do you think, look okay? Deon Steyn 07:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Sure, that addition seems good to me. --Junky 16:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that's the best place for what's left of it, since we are talking about the SW99 in that part and it's obviously a section which references the U.S. market. But, perhaps there's an extra word or two that can go in there to denote that P99's distributed in the US have "a variety of import markings, etc...." without getting too technical? --Sirimiri 04:24, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Effective range?

What's the effective range of this pistol? 88.105.31.188 18:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Effective range is completely dependant upon the shooter. The 9mm bullet will be lethal out to a mile, but nobody can shoot that far. Effective range is arbitrary and means absolutely nothing.--Asams10 19:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, so statistically speaking, a 9mm parabellum projectile may still be lethal after it traversed 1'600 metres. From what you're saying, you said it still has the ability to make a kill, after it flew over a mile of air friction.
I'd just like to know what the effective range would be out of the pistol where it does "consistent damage" up to whatever maximum range it is.
88.105.98.46 14:10, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
The problem is that while some are using max effective range figures in some places, without a definition of how they arrived at the number, it is as Asams suggested completely meaningless. Arthurrh 16:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Range and effective range are tactical tools to shape strategy, they are not in any way related to real world numbers. Nor are they averages, means, or even really useful for anything beyond theory. I can hit man-sized targets at 100 yards with most pistols about 90% of the time. A trained individual might be able to get 25-50% hits at that range. So, what is effective? If you decide the statistical norms of 5% or 2.5%, then I would have an effective range of about 80-90 yards. What about maximum effective range? The 9mm CAN kill out to, probably, 1.5 miles on a regular basis. What's a kill then? Hmmm, you can shoot somebody through the head and not kill them 100% of the time, so you'd have to define THAT too.
I'd go on, but I've made my point. If you boil down EVERY statistic, average and normed and qualify your range statement to no limit, you'd come up with a number, probably around 15-20 yards. So, what does that number mean? NOTHING. In fact, it's more than meaningless, it's misleading. It's like saying that people can run 22 MPH. I can, but can everybody else? Two bullets fired at 45 degrees into the air under the EXACT same conditions can land a mile apart. This is Horseshoes and Hand Grenades territory, there is nothing close to exacting science involved here. --Asams10 17:34, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

193.63.131.151 10:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Can we safely assume that the Walther pistol can only be effective at firing up to 50 metres/55 yards? I do know for a fact that it's not a firearm anyone can snipe with, especially with a 4 inch barrel.

The answer is, no, there is no way you can assume the Walther is only effective firing at 50 meters. You're looking for absolutes and there are none. So many variables and factors play into this that you're not able to make any hard and fast statements. --Asams10 11:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I may not be good enough to have a acceptable accuracy over a 60 metres, but it is seriously hard a think a 9mm projectile may still be deemed as "lethal" after it flew over 1760 yards/1610 metres. It should lose more than a half of it's Kinetic Energy, after it flown through a considerable distance of air-friction. Do you have proof of this? 193.63.131.151 10:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

See, this is the kind of stuff you get into. I'll bite. YES, I can provide proof. You stand at 1759 yards and I'll shoot at you with a 9mm. I'll need a few hundred rounds to dial you in. If you're still alive at the end of it, you're right! NO, I don't need to prove it. Look it up yourself. It's got considerable kinetic energy at that range. BTW, this is not a forum, I was just bringing that up as an example. --Asams10 11:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1996 / 1997

The article stated that the P99 was shown to the public in '96, however I found here that it says it was shown to the public in 1997, I changed it to 1997. Anyone know the correct date? Fredtastic 18:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iraqi army use ?

A friend told me that the Iraqi army officers are given this pistol unlike the soldiers who get glock 18 .--Blain Toddi 11:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Walther P99 .jpg

Image:Walther P99 .jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)