Talk:Walter H. Breen

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[edit] Unsigned Amazon review

INteresting review of his "Greek Love" at Amazon:[1]

" A brilliant madman., July 24, 2003 Reviewer: A reader J.Z. Eglinton, also known as Walter H. Breen, coauthored "Greek Love" with my mother, Marion Zimmer Bradley. He felt deeply of the rightness of his position, and used arguments from the book to try to convince the judge at his two trials for child molesting. A few of Marion Bradley's books have pedophilic themes; among them "The Catch Trap" and it is interesting to read her works with awareness of her involvement in these issues. It is sad that Walter Breen was so unaware of the pain he caused to his many victims. He was afflicted with paranoid schizophrenia which meant he had a fixed system of delusions which were unresponsive to conflicting data (like the objections of his child-victims!!) When he was sentenced to thirteen years in San Quentin, for the forcible rape of a seven-year-old child, among other charges, he had already been diagnosed with terminal cancer and given only a month to live. He was considered too dangerous to even be allowed into a hospice to die! He was so charismatic in life that his friends were widely in favor of finding a way to discredit his victims, and many were loyal to him to the end, even the ones who knew the truth about his crimes."

Too bad it can't be verified and used here. Haiduc 14:24, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

If you want it verified, just drop a note to Moira Stern, his daughter. She's very forthcoming about her father and his crimes.

[edit] Sources?

I don't see sources for the claims of pederasty against this person. I'll admit I don't really know much about the case myself. Nevertheless, the onus is upon the editors who added or support the inclusion of the information, to back it up with sources. Accusations of felony crimes are serious business and should never be thrown around unsourced at Wikipedia; the last thing Wikipedia needs is another high-profile libel scandal. Please cite sources. -Kasreyn 05:40, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

It's public record that he pled guilty.

[edit] Re: added source

Thank you very much, and it's a good start. But I'm still concerned about the allegation that he was convicted of the crimes alleged. Once again, to forestall any flames, I'd like to point out that my interest here is protecting Wikipedia from defamation claims, not protecting dead jailbird child molesters (assuming good faith here). Thanks. -Kasreyn 07:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

There is Marion Zimmer Bradley's testimony in the lawsuit filed against her by Ken Smith, Walter's last victim and the one he went to prison for. It is excerpted at: http://www.sff.net/people/stephen.goldin/mzb/excerpts1.html
Bgoldnyxnet

[edit] Re: source

Marion told me some of Breen's history in a conversation at MidAmericon (1975 World Science Fiction Convention). She stated, among other things, that Glen Frendl [one of Breen's alleged victims] "crawled into Walter's Bed", i.e., that the relationship started out as Glen's idea. This does little to excuse Walter by our current standards; Glen would have been only 10 or 11 at the time, Walter somewhere around 30. OTOH I will note that this sort of relationship was considered "normal" in ancient Athens -- although I believe the "boys" involved would have been young teens rather than pre-teens.

I find both Goldin's accusation page and Waters' "defense" unconvincing. Goldin and Mason would have had to be extremely naive to be in SF Fandom for any period of time (Goldin joined LASFS in 1967) and not be aware of the controversy surrounding Breen. Very few people considered him wholly innocent of sexual relations with pre-teen and teenage boys, but, for a variety of reasons, many thought that this was not a good reason to ban him from Fandom. But Waters' defense somehow alleges both that

  1. Goldin and Mason should have known about Breen's previous behavior because it was so notorious in Fandom
  2. Bradley knew nothing about Breen's behavior until _after_ the first time Ken was molested. This later claim is also contradicted by the transcript of Bradley's testimony.

There is a term in SF Fandom for this sort of defense: to "gerberize" someone is to defend them in such a way that they would have been better off without the defense. Named after Les Gerber's attempted defense of Breen during the "Breendoggle".

I also note that the "successful" suit against Marion was settled by her insurer after her death. IOW, there was not a verdict on the facts of the case but rather a decision by the insurer that the risk of losing was high enough to justify settling.

I propose to redact the sentence "His ex-wife was successfully sued by the Goldin family, due to her knowledge and facilitation of his criminal behavior" as follows:

"His ex-wife was sued by the Goldin family, who accused her of knowing about and facilitating his criminal behavior. The suit was settled for an undisclosed [substantial?] sum after her death."

Barry Gold Bgoldnyxnet 04:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that sentence reads much better after your revision. Also, regarding the observation that pederastic relationships were normal in ancient Greece, I wanted to point out that many activities once considered acceptable are thought of differently now, such as slavery, or domestic violence. 24.131.12.228 03:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why Texas?

I don't understand why this article has been placed in the Texas project. Breen lived in California during the time I knew him (approx. 1966-1990). While apparently born in Texas, he seems to have been a Californian for most of his adult life.
Bgoldnyxnet

Project tags aren't awards (for the Project or the subject), they are used to identify possible sources for additional information. Since Breen was born in TX there is a pretty clear reason to tag. The more eyes watching a project, the better. Jacksinterweb (talk) 00:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why did I end up here trying to make sure this article complies to wiki policy and guidelines?

I thought trying to protect the Tom Metzger from policy/guideline violations was bad(I have since given up), but this one is out there too. Oh well. Is it too much to ask for better/more sources?? Thanks --Tom 20:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

He is well known for his writings about pederastry? Since its in the lead, is there a source for that?--Tom 20:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Read the article in Before Stonewall (listed in the "Further reading" section) for details. --Orange Mike 02:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)