Talk:Walter Block

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Contents

[edit] TheBlacklarl exchange

Some idiot named Dick Clark keeps on writing false information about my colleague Walter Block. Please keep him off the board.

What kind of "false information"? What are your sources for the "correct" information? -Willmcw 05:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

My source is that I know Walter Block...how about that buddy?

I too know Walter Block. I worked with him all semester here at the Mises Institute. In fact, I helped him move into his Auburn apartment when he came here after hurricane Katrina. Dick Clark 18:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I just emailed Walter asking him whether or not he ever worked for Business Week. Should have an answer fairly soon. Dick Clark 16:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


As you can all see, the user DickClarkMises has made numerous comments regarding me. I will not insult him here because I do not want to be kicked off of Wikipedia. Please just know that I see things very differently from him. Again, my name is Sean Christopher Marinara and I am a college student at Holy Cross. Dr. Block used to teach here, and I learned about him through that. My friends and I are all libertarians. We have personal information about Dr. Block that we learned from his former colleagues here at Holy Cross. When I tried to post this information, some users, including DickClark, deleted it. The information is 100% true. I ask that you please carefully consider the situation before making any decisions which might be considered rash. (unsigned comment by User:Theblacklarl)

I don't see any insults is that what you were implying? I do note that you called Dick an idiot. I also note from the e-mails with Block and his wife, below, that Dick was correct re the Canadian citizenship. You need to stop calling people liars (on your user page). Your own edits will be judged on our ability to verfiy the information. A perfect example of your ambiguous edits is the recent addition where you mention that Block has won numerous awards in his field. While this may be true the word numerous is vague. Which awards? When was he awarded such awards? Do you have a source that inspired this statement? If so, post the source other wise such comments will be deleted. Other users are not trying to censor your edits but we will not trust edits with yourself as the primary source. That is just common sense. David D. (Talk) 18:27, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fact-checking with Dr. Block

I was curious about the Business Week claim, as well as the correctness of the disputed bit about his citizenship, so, as I mentioned above, I emailed Walter Block and asked him to settle these questions. Please find our correspondence below:

From: Dick Clark <cro..@gm...>    Mailed-By: gmail.com
To: Walter Block <wb...@ya..>
Date: Dec 16, 2005 10:08 AM
Subject: Business Week

Walter,

Excuse the inquiry, but, for the purposes of Wikipedia, may I ask you whether or not you have 
ever worked for Business Week? There is an individual who is claiming that you did, and I am 
trying to either substantiate or debunk his position.

Kind regards,

Dick Clark

Auburn District Chairman, Libertarian Party of Alabama
http://www.auburn.edu/libertarian 
------
From: Walter Block <wb...@ya...>  Signed-By: yahoo.com | Mailed-By: yahoo.com
To: Dick Clark <cr..@gm...>
Date: Dec 16, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Business Week

I did indeed work for BW. Here's an entry on my cv:

6/74-8/76 Consulting economist for Tax Foundation,
Business Week Magazine, Community Housing Improvement
Program, Coalition to Save New York, Charles Koch
Fellowship

I even wrote an article for them on Austro
libertarianism:

Block, Walter. 1974. “The Austrian School's advice:
'Hands off!” Business Week Magazine, 3 August, pp.
40-41.

It's got a picture of Murray, Izzy and Walter Grinder.

who claimed that I worked for BW?
------
From: Dick Clark <cro...@gm...>   Mailed-By: gmail.com
To: Walter Block <wb...@ya...>
Date: Dec 16, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Business Week

Walter,

A fellow who claims to be a former student of yours named Sean C. Marinara was the provider of 
that information. He says that he studied with under you at Holy Cross. When he first began 
editing your entry and Lew Rockwell's entry on Wikipedia, he initially claimed to be a colleague 
of yours, then claimed to be you, and is now giving us the above name. He is very angry with me 
and other editors over our removal of some poorly worded and sourced additions of his to the Lew 
Rockwell entry. He inserted the following in Lew's blurb:

"CRITICISM: Although this true statement may be deleted, I will make it anway. Rockwell has 
been identified as a racist and anti-semite by the Southern Poverty Law Center."

Now, I would say that the SPLC makes some pretty outrageous claims designed to bolster their 
subscription numbers for their Intelligence publication, but this particular claim about Lew has 
on Wikipedia been an oft-submitted and oft-debated one. Wikipedia policy requires that 
contributions (particularly controversial ones) be sourced for easy verification, and, thus far, 
no sources have been cited in which the SPLC directly labels Lew with the "racist" or "anti-
semite" epithets. Thus Mr. Marinara's contributions have been removed in many cases for lack 
of a source.

I was personally suspect of his contributions to your article, which is why I emailed you with 
regards to the Business Week assertion. There was no reason why that tidbit seemed obviously 
wrong, but without sourcing it wasn't suitable for wikipedia inclusion. Your c.v. will serve 
nicely as a source for that.

There was also a question as to whether or not you had been granted Canadian citizenship, with 
some asserting that you may have received such on 27 November 1991, and others vehemently 
denying that you were a citizen of any country other than the US. If you could enlighten me on 
this, that would be most helpful as well.

Thank you for your speedy reply to my previous message!

In Liberty,

Dick Clark
------
From: Walter Block <wb...@yah...> Signed-By: yahoo.com | Mailed-By: yahoo.com
To: Dick Clark <cro...@gm...>
Cc: mb..@sha...
Date: Dec 16, 2005 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Business Week

Dear Dick:

I am a Canadian citizen, and also a US citizen. I don't remember the date. My wife might, so 
I'm copying her on this.

Best regards,

Walter
------
From: Walter Block <wb...@ya...>  Signed-By: yahoo.com | Mailed-By: yahoo.com
To: Mary Beth Block <mb...@sh...>
Cc: cro...@gm...
Date: Dec 16, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: RE: Business Week

thanks.

Mary Beth Block <mb..@s...> wrote:

> Yes, Walter, I checked and Nov. 27, 1991, was the
> date you became a Canadian
> citizen.

[edit] Evidence is clear--Rothbard no longer significant

Looking at the Journal of Libertarian studies' ranking of the most influential economists, one can see that Murray Rothbard is no longer considered significant among leading libertarian economists. He fell off the top 10 ranking 2 years ago and has not been back since. Again, I urge you to see the Journal of Libertarian Studies' ranking of the 10 Most Influential Libertarian Economists.

Murray Rothbard is considered significant enough for inclusion in Wikipedia, hence the continued existence of an entry about him. With that said, I cannot find the JLS article to which you refer above. I have a complete collection of the JLS on hand (since my employer, the Ludwig von Mises Institute is the publisher of the journal, we keep a full collection in our library, of which I am head librarian). I would very much appreciate it if you can refer me to the issue that you are citing above. Frankly, though, the significance of Rothbard to libertarians is not important to this article about Walter Block. What is more important is Murray's significance to Walter. Walter credits Murray as being a great influence on his own ideological/professional development, as well as his valued friend, in his tribute to Murray here[1]. Dick Clark 17:42, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
His contributions to economics alone are remarkable. As Dean of the Austrian School of Economics -- 
a school more uncompromising in its defence of the free market that its more well known rival, the 
Chicago School -- Rothbard is best known for his books Man, Economy and State, Power and Market, and
America's Great Depression. Ranging over almost every category of the dismal science -- from utility
theory to business cycles, from monopoly to public goods, from economic history to the history of 
economic thought, from monetary to trade, from banking to methodology and much much more -- Rothbard
made a significant mark in each...

In any just world, he would have long ago been awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics, and similar 
accolades in every other scholarly field he addressed. He would have taught at a prestigious 
graduate school. His writings would have graced all of the leading academic journals. In the present
one, however, this was not to be. He languished for years teaching engineers at Brooklyn Polytechnic
Institute, and only for the last decade at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas...

After knowing Murray for a short time in the mid 1960s, I had changed my mind on quite a few things.
How did it happen? I would spend an afternoon reading something of Murray's, for example, Man 
Economy and State; suddenly, I realized that I would see the great man that very night. A sort of 
cognitive dissonance would seize me. Was I, insignificant worm that I was, really going to see the 
great man that night? It seemed impossible. Somehow, I had to make myself worthy of such a 
great honor...

I fear, intense young lad that I was at that time, that I was a bit of a trial for him. Somehow, he 
put up with me. It was only many years later that I realized he only wanted to be friends. He would 
like me even if I didn't pester him incessantly on every jot and tittle of learning I could think 
of. But how could you be friends with someone you admired so much? Full of hubris, I once called 
Murray, wanting to compare productivity levels, one writer with another. Forget about quality; I 
knew there was no contest there. I just wanted to see how my best day so far (23 double spaced 
typewritten pages) stacked up against his average output. His exact response to my query as to his 
typical daily productivity -- I remember this as if it had occurred yesterday -- was: "Mhrech, 
mhrech! Who keeps count? Leave me alone."

I wonder what is the worth of a top 10 list with regard to significance anyway. Given there is a term Rothbardian it seems his contributions must have been extremely significant. There is no doubt his influence on Block was huge.

See the following inteview with Block. When asked "Your personal recollection of Murray Rothbard and libertarian movement's early years? " Block answered:

"Murray was the person most influential on my (professional) life. I remember him with affection and a bit of awe. I was amazed that such a great man would have time for me, let alone would actually be my friend."

Of course if Blacklarl trusts his list over Blocks opinion who am I to question such a list. David D. (Talk) 17:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Numerous awards"

As I have made clear before, I am a big fan of Walter and his work. Nonetheless, such a nebulous claim as "Professor Block, the winner of numerous awards in his field, is noted among Columbia University's most distinguished alumni" is not up to snuff for Wikipedia. "Numerous" is a vague term that smacks of POV-pushing (seems to try to magnify Block's importance beyond the simple factual information). Who notes that Block is among Columbia's most distinguished alumni? I found such a notation on the website for the Columbia libertarian student group here [2], but that hardly seems notable enough for wikipedia inclusion. Block's c.v. is found here [3], and does indeed list 20 awards of sorts (including mostly fellowships, research grants, and scholarships). Whether these are important to the Block article I am not sure, but a vague mention of "numerous awards" will only be seen as blatant promotion by most readers. Dick Clark 18:10, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I mentioned this above but it may have got lost in the Canadian citizen comments. Above i wrote:
A perfect example of your ambiguous edits is the recent addition where you mention that Block has won numerous awards in his field. While this may be true the word numerous is vague. Which awards? When was he awarded such awards? Do you have a source that inspired this statement? If so, post the source other wise such comments will be deleted. Other users are not trying to censor your edits but we will not trust edits with yourself as the primary source. That is just common sense.
For me, grants, fellowships and scholarships do NOT count as awards. Awards are usually from professional societies or, ironically, governments. I wonder if Block has recieved but refused awards due to his politics? Regardless, Blacklarl needs to come up with a source otherwise that sentence should be cut. David D. (Talk) 18:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Daycd: You are quite right that you pointed this problem out above. To save folks from waiting for Block's rather long c.v. .pdf to load, I will list the awards that may rightly be called such (i.e., those "awards" that were not recurring fellowships, scholarships, grants, etc.).
  • Sir Anthony Fisher International Memorial Book Competition; First Place Award for Economics and the Environment: A Reconciliation, The Atlas Economic Research Foundation (1991)
  • Freedom’s Foundation Leavey Award for Excellence in Private Enterprise Education ($7,500); Holy Cross College Teaching Award (1997)
  • Holy Cross Faculty Marshal for Commencement Exercises; awarded to those who make a significant contribution to the educational experience of the senior class (1997)
  • Southwestern Business Deans’ Association Innovative Achievement Award for “Student Writing and Publication Program” (1998)
  • Honorable Ron Paul, Member, United States Congress, Texas, Liberty in Media Award (2002)
While it may be the case that some or all of the above awards are notable enough for wikipedia inclusion, it is certainly not the case that "numerous" is an appropriate description of their number. Any reader who saw "numerous" would likely be left with the impression that more than five awards were at issue. I am removing the mention of "numerous awards", and will leave it to others to indicate the community consensus on whether to include any of the above awards.Dick Clark 19:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of these are rather minor, for example the "Holy Cross Faculty Marshal". Perhaps a more generic phrase would be more accurate. "He has been formally recognized for his excellence as an educator"? Or something like that. -Willmcw 21:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Frankly, I am not of the opinion that any of the above awards merit a mention in the article. Dick Clark 23:43, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Among Columbia University's most distinguished alumni"

Theblacklarl: Could you please cite a notable source verifying that "Professor Block is noted among Columbia University's most distinguished alumni"? I agree with you that he is among the most distinguished alumni (MN Rothbard graduated from Columbia also, btw), but we need an appropriate source to make such a claim on wikipedia. Please see Wikipedia:Verifiability.Dick Clark 22:57, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TMI

Although I do think that significant hobbies are worth noting in biographies, especially in very notable people, in less notable instances the matter of verifiability comes up. How do we know that Block belongs to this or that social club? Or that he likes terriers vs spaniels, or chess versus checkers? Even if Block himself edited this page it wouldn't be verifiable by other editors, unless weekend visits are included. Let's cool it on the personal information that is unverifiable by non-social means. I'm sure the subject would rather be known for his published works.-Will Beback 10:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Again, how do we know what clubs Block belongs to? -Will Beback 00:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable?

This article doesn't cite a single reliable source other than publications of the LvMI, an organization with which he's closely associated. That's a serious problem, is it not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Binarybits (talk • contribs) 21:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Block is famous for his short popular book _Defending the Undefendable_ (which hasn't been out of print since it was originally published), for being Ron Paul's chief Economics adviser (a current event), and for his substantial body of publications. Of course you know all this. You work for Cato and probably know several of his friends there. Instead you are asking it because you seem to have a history of net-stalking libertarians affiliated with institutes that are not Cato. The morgawr (talk) 03:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

that's interesting. the part about being paul's adviser needs to be added somewhere. Bob A (talk) 03:48, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry I wasn't familiar with the guy's work, although it's quite possible we know some of the same people. But I think my point still stands. If he's famous, there should be reliable sources attesting to his fame, no? Binarybits (talk) 04:54, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I find it incredible that you don't actually know who Block is. Palmer, Pilon, Barnett, and many other "big names" at Cato clearly do (even if they don't always have nice things to say about him.) Block is a famous (and extremely controversial) libertarian. Witness, e.g., the massive blog-war between him and Randy Barnett debating Barnett's piece about Paul in the NY Times. The name calling between Palmer and the people on the LRC blog, etc. All of this turns up on google, and comes up on casual conversation with any "big name" libertarian thinker (e.g. a few weeks ago when I had dinner with Randy Barnett and his wife.) That you are totally oblivious to the nasty sniping that goes on between Block (and other LvMI people) and many of Cato's big names is an amazing, but plausible, claim; that you don't even know who Block is, is simply not believable. The morgawr (talk) 06:26, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm certainly aware that there's bad blood between some Cato people and some LvMI people. I've just never had the occasion to read Block's work. I know who Randy Barnett is, but I don't read the Volokh Conspiracy regularly, (Reading VC would be a full time job) so I missed that particular flamewar. Look, I was in 3rd grade when Block's book came out. Maybe if I were older, I would have been more familiar with his work, but I just haven't had occasion to read any of it. Binarybits (talk) 14:47, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Oops, my mistake: "Defending the Undefendable" came out before I was born. So it's definitely not that surprising that I wasn't familiar with it. Binarybits (talk) 15:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)