Talk:Wall Street (film)

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[edit] NPOV Issue

His truncated catchphrase from the speech, "Greed is good," came to symbolise what some describe as the ruthless, profit-obsessed, simplistic, Ayn Randish, short-term corporate "philosphy" of the 1980s and 1990s and by extension became associated with unrestrained liberistic, Chicago-school economic policies.

This paragraph seems very non-NPOV. The emotionally loaded words (e.g "profit-obssessed" should be something like "profit-centered" or "profit-driven" that doesn't imply a moral judgement) and the irony quotes should be replaced. The assertion that the speech is connected with either Ayn Rand (what does 'Ayn Randish' even mean?) or the Chicago school of economics also either needs to be sourced or removed.

The whole paragraph seems primarily intended to take a cheap shot at various political views that aren't explicitly related to the movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.76.85.26 (talk) 02:13, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rating

Added 1987 Movie's Rating. please add rating for other. 198.234.216.67 16:06, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Ratings didn't exist in 1929. Samboy 05:51, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Needs to be moved in line with standard Wikipedia naming conventions, but Wall Street (film) already exists as a redirect page to Wall Street (movie). CLW 08:41, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

[edit] Discussion

I've moved this page per the discussion. —Cleared as filed. 02:24, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Greed Is Good redirects here

The article's AFD debate reached consensus that the article should redirect here. Johnleemk | Talk 02:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This article is a a bit of mess and I think it should be marked for clean-up to bring it up to the standards of other film entries. Separating the two movies should be a priority as well. - Fearfulsymmetry 04:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OR/lack of sources

The article has no sources to back any of the opinions and interpretations, and the commentary is entirely original research, especially the part about Bud Fox and the SEC. Malakaville 05:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title of nobility

Removed this

The rival of Gordon Gekko in the film is Sir Larry Wildman played by Terence Stamp. In the beginning of the film, Gekko tells Bud that Larry has recently received his U.S. citizenship. However, as his name implies, Sir Larry has been knighted by Queen Elizabeth II. One of the requirements of becoming an American citizen is to renounce all noble titles (see 8 USC 1448).[1] Thus, it seems unlikely that Larry would have given up his knighthood in order to become an American citizen.
It is not inconceivable, however, that Sir Larry officially renounced the title but continues to use the phonetic anomaly "Sir" in front of his name, rationalising it (if rationalisation is necessary) as an American first name in the manner of "Duke" or "Earl".

8 USC 1448 requires a naturalized citizen to renounced hereditary titles or titles of nobility. However a knighthood is neither one of the two. A knighthood is generally not hereditary nor does it confer make one a noble (i.e. a knight can still be elected to the House of Commons).

Roadrunner 00:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original cut

Where are the sources for the information in this section? Is it all contained in extras on a DVD release?


I'm curious about this too: where on Earth does this information come from? Presumably there is a copy of this uncut version _somewhere_? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.89.221 (talk) 20:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. I've moved it to here until someone can source all of this info properly.--J.D. (talk) 18:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


The first version of the film had a 160-minute running time, as opposed to 120 minutes for the theatrical release.

Most of the 40 minutes cut involved a subplot in which Bud has an affair with Gekko's wife, Kate (Sean Young). As a result, Young's appearance in the film is greatly diminished.

Other deleted scenes explain that Darien began her career as a call girl, the basis for Carl Fox telling off his son with "I don't go to bed with no whore, and I don't wake up with no whore," and the umbrage Bud takes at it. Yet another makes clear how Bud can become president of Bluestar without giving up his position at the brokerage firm, something that seems highly implausible in the final cut.

Penn Jillette originally had a role as a stock trader, but was cut out. He claimed on his radio show, Penn Radio, (04-14-06) that he believed at first it was because the film had run long, but looking back, he felt his performance was probably just inadequate. He also said that he did not get along with Stone.

Penn Jillette's scenes are included in the DVD's deleted scenes. Daniel Case (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Ggekko.jpg

Image:Ggekko.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 17:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of Insider trading

At one time, sections of this article had a discussion of what Bud and Gordon did, and why it was illegal. Can this be brought back into the article?

DarkStarHarry (talk) 22:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References in popular culture

I'm moving this unsourced list from the article and storing it here until it can be cited and integrated into various sections in the article.--J.D. (talk) 20:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

  • 1993's Hot Shots! Part Deux had a scene where Charlie Sheen was seen on a boat going up a river, writing a letter as we heard his voiceover narration from Platoon. In further acknowledgement of that, another boat passes in the opposite direction with Martin Sheen himself reciting his narration from Apocalypse Now. As the craft pass, father and son simultaneously shout at each other, "I loved you in Wall Street!"
  • In the 2000 film Boiler Room, some of the young stockbrokers in that film are shown watching Wall Street on video. During the scene where Bud goes to Gekko's office for the first time and listens as he converses on the phone about the CEO of a company he is considering taking over, they turn down the volume and recite his lines ("Their quarterlies are for shit! ... If this guy owned a funeral parlor, nobody would die!!!") in unison.
  • In a 2005-06 episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, a Professor tells Detectives Goren and Eames his alibi saying that he was screening Wall Street for his class in business ethics.
  • In an episode of The Sarah Silverman Program there is a scene in which a young girl recites Gordon Gekko's famous "Greed is Good" scene.
  • In the PC game Warcraft III, typing the cheat "greedisgood X" will give you Gold and Lumber equivalent to the value of X
  • In another PC game Fallout 2, a ghoul NPC called Gordon can be found in the town called Gecko, and he talks about greed, and how good it is.
  • In the Wario World GameCube commercial, the "Greed is Good" theme is parodied.
  • In the television serial Chuck in the episode Chuck vs. the Sandworm, the character Morgan is addressed by the phrase, "Hey you in the Gordon Gekko costume."

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Wall street.jpg

Image:Wall street.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Themes and Errors sections

This sections contain a lot of original research without any citations and should be removed. Unless someone can include some footnotes for these sections I'm going to remove them from the main article and place them here.--J.D. (talk) 15:36, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Themes

[edit] Conflicts

Wall Street defines itself through a number of morality conflicts putting wealth and power against simplicity and honesty.

Carl's (Martin Sheen's) character represents the working class in the film: he is the union leader for the maintenance workers at Bluestar. He constantly attacks big business, money, mandatory drug screening and greedy manufacturers and anything that he sees as a threat to his union. The conflict between Gekko's relentless pursuit of wealth and Carl Fox's leftward leanings form the basis of the film's subtext. This subtext could be described as the concept of the two fathers battling for control over the morals of the son, a concept Stone had also used in Platoon.

In Wall Street the hard-working Carl Fox and the cutthroat businessman Gordon Gekko represent the fathers. The producers of the film use Carl as their voice in the film, a voice of reason amid the creative destruction brought about by Gekko's unrestrained free-market philosophy.

[edit] 'Greed is Good'

Gordon Gekko delivers his "Greed is Good" speech to the shareholders of a company he is attempting to take over.
Gordon Gekko delivers his "Greed is Good" speech to the shareholders of a company he is attempting to take over.

Arguably the most memorable scene in the film is a speech by Gekko to a shareholders' meeting of Teldar Paper, a company he is planning to take over. Stone uses this scene to give Gekko, and by extension, the Wall Street raiders he personifies, the chance to justify their actions, which he memorably does, pointing out the slothfulness and waste that corporate America accumulated through the postwar years and from which he sees himself as a "liberator":

The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that: Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right; greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms, greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge — has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words — will not only save Teldar Paper but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

The inspiration for the "Greed is good" speech seems to have come from two sources. The first part, where Gekko complains that the company's management owns less than three percent of its stock, and that it has too many vice presidents, is taken from similar speeches and comments made by Carl Icahn about companies he was trying to take over. The defense of greed is a paraphrase of the May 18, 1986 commencement address at the UC Berkeley's School of Business Administration, delivered by arbitrageur Ivan Boesky (who himself was later convicted of insider-trading charges), in which he said, "Greed is all right, by the way. I want you to know that. I think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself."

Ultimately the "Greed is Good" speech could be seen as related to what Adam Smith concluded about human nature. Smith believed that, in general, honest people freed to pursue their own interest would fare better than they would under a system that dictated what was "good." In the process, persons pursuing their own interests would eliminate inefficiencies and allocate commodities where they would benefit the greater society.

Wall Street is not a wholesale criticism of the capitalist system, but of the cynical, quick-buck culture of the 1980s. The 'good' characters in the film are themselves capitalists, but in a more steady, hardworking sense. In one scene, Gekko scoffs at Bud Fox's question as to the moral value of hard work, quoting the example of his (Gekko's) father, who worked hard his entire life and died in relative mediocrity. Fox's stockbroker boss (played by Hal Holbrook) as an archetype old man mentor, says early in the film, that "good things sometimes take time", referring to IBM and Hilton - in contrast, Gekko's 'Greed is Good' credo typifies the short-term view prevalent in the 80s.

[edit] Errors

[edit] Anachronism

In the first shot of the film, showing the large expanse of a trading floor, the year is noted as 1985. Moments later a character (played by John C. McGinley) comments sarcastically on how a broker (Gekko) had shorted NASA stock 30 seconds after the Challenger exploded. The Space Shuttle Challenger exploded in January, 1986, after the events of the beginning of the film. Stone later explained that the "1985" title at the beginning was added after production was finished, to locate the film in a time before the mid-1980s insider-trading scandals began to break. However, when Bud checks his computer's date book on the day he meets Gekko, the year is again given as 1985.

In any case, the character was clearly making a joke: NASA is a governmental agency and not a publicly traded company.

[edit] Economics

At one point Gekko is giving a speech during which he says, "Money cannot be created or destroyed", which is not necessarily correct since money can be created through the deposit credit multiplier effect. Gekko followed by stating that the money was simply transferred from one perception to another. The stock market is also not necessarily a "zero-sum" game. Gekko's "zero-sum" assertion ignores one of the largest drivers of wealth creation, which is increased capital or labor productivity. However, it seems likely that the statement was merely a reflection of Gekko's belief in a competitive capitalistic environment where his challenge is no longer in making himself wealthy but in defeating his rivals.

[edit] Miscellaneous

In the film's final shot, Bud is shown walking up the steps of the state court building in Foley Square to his sentencing. Insider trading is a federal charge, the investigators chasing after him have been from the federal SEC, and thus he should be going into the adjacent federal court building.

Moved these sections to this page because they are unsourced and original research. --J.D. (talk) 15:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)