Talk:Walk-off home run

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flag
Portal
Baseball Portal
Walk-off home run is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of baseball and baseball-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale.
Assessment comments

The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit ° history ° watch ° refresh)

  • Needs more references.

Contents

[edit] Who has the record for most walk-off home runs, career?

Is this a statistic that is tracked? Can anyone find out and post? (Added after David Ortiz's seventh walk-off home run with the Red Sox, June 24, 2006)

I was wondering that myself. A google search turned up this list:
1. Jimmie Foxx, Mickey Mantle, Stan Musial, Frank Robinson, Babe Ruth (12)
6. Tony Perez (11)
7. Dick Allen, Harold Baines, Reggie Jackson, Mike Schmidt (10)
Jonpin 05:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Great, thanks! It turns out that the walk-off was his sixth with the Red Sox, but seventh for his career.
I'd been wondering myself, but couldn't find anything in online or print sources. MisfitToys 21:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is the term necessary?

I can't stand the term 'walk-off' and I refuse to use it; it sounds incredibly lame. Sports writers should go back to speaking plain English and just say 'game-winning.' {Paul1953H}

A hit can be a game-winning one without being a walk-off, so the term makes a useful distinction. Matchups 01:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm with Paul1953H. Game winning home run, generally, used to imply game ending. Or the writer or announcer would simply say, game ending home run. Walk-off contributes minimally to any of the prior renditions of 'game-ending' home run. So I would argue that its value is really not in adding precision to a working definition of the home run, but instead to increase the sensationalism. My counter argument would be to point to Bill Mazeroski's bottom-of-the-ninth homer in the 1960 World Series. Defining this moment as a walk-off versus a game-ending home run adds neither greater definition nor greater sensationalism. It's implied that Mazeroski's home run was improbable, that it won the game and the series, and that it was an intensely dramatic moment. 10stone5 18:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
One more vote for unnecessary. My very least favorite of the terms is the walk-off walk. They use the term so much nowadays that any value it once had is gone, all it does is annoy the subset of us who hate the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.11.82 (talk • contribs) 05:53, July 15, 2007

[edit] When did this term start getting used?

When did this term start getting used? I have been a fan of baseball for a long time, but I don't remember hearing the term until a few years ago. Did someone (on ESPN?) coin the phrase? (Unsigned by Cacophony) at 25:39, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC))

I haven't researched it but my understanding is Dennis Eckersley is given credit for coining the term during his stint as the closer for the Oakland Athletics. While the definition today is generally as described in the article "teams walk off the field" Eckersley's meaning was he threw a pitch and had to "walk off the mound". This is the only story I have ever heard of this origin, if anyone has anymore information I'd like to hear about it so we can update the article. ( Unsigned by :Jobrien at 17:03, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC))
The article has been updated with some usage history, based on an article in today's Boston Globe article: Term Covers All the Bases, Boston Globe/boston.com 062405. Paul August ☎ 16:33, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
I'm 99% sure Rob Neyer from ESPN.com brought it back into common parlance (he didn't invent it, but he brought it back in the late nineties). I definitely remember reading the column on ESPN.com that discussed walk-off homers, and his was about the only one I read regularly before it became part of ESPN Insider (I also read Peter Gammons, but this definitely seems more like Neyer than Gammons). Within weeks of that column, it was being used on Sportscenter and Baseball Tonight and eventually spread.
I'd add that it annoys me to no end when announcers or sportswriters call something a walk-off single when there's a play at the plate. 'Walk-off' is supposed to be a very specific term, with one of the conditions being that it's a deadball situation (usually homers, though also walks, balks, etc.).

Dart~Ben

For reasons that should be apparent, I am uniquely qualified to answer this question. I first started hearing the term about 10 years ago. -- Mwalcoff 04:38, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Greatest Most Famous Walk-Off Home Runs

This is what is listed right now:

  • Bobby Thompson, 1956 Giants
  • Bill Mazeroski, 1960 Pirates
  • Chris Chambliss, 1976 Yankees
  • Kirby Pucket, 1991 Twins
  • Joe Carter, 1993 Jays
  • Aaron Boone, 2003 Yankees
  • Chris Burke, 2005 Astros

I do not think Puckett and Burke belong on that list. And I'm leaning against Aaron Boone and maybe Chambliss too. In any case, how can this list not include Kirk Gibson in 1988 or Carlton Fisk in 1975? I'd add them, but then the list would be way too long. My proposal is to limit the "Greatest Walk-off Home Runs" paragraph to five examples, them being:

  • Thompson
  • Mazeroski
  • Fisk
  • Gibson
  • Carter

Please discuss what an appropriate limit would be for that section, and which examples you would prefer be included within that limit.--DaveOinSF 14:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's ideal for the article to become a debate about the "greatest"; this isn't a poll. Simply identifying the most notable ones (with reasons) should be sufficient, I think. MisfitToys 20:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
The point is that if we choose not to remove any of the ones that are currently listed, I am going to add Gibson's and Fisk's homeruns, which are at least as famous as Burke's, Puckett's, Chambliss' or Boone's, which will then bring the total number of examples in that paragraph to nine. I am sure you will agree that nine examples in that paragraph is too much.
I probably should have said "Most Famous" as opposed to "Greatest". As it currently stands, the article states: The subject of the most famous walk-off home run in the history of the major leagues is one that creates a lot of argument and then proceeds to identify the seven famous homeruns listed above. I am simply proposing that that paragraph should be limited to five examples and we should come to consensus as to what those five examples are. I am OK with eliminating that paragraph entirely too.--DaveOinSF 22:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to restore Boone's. Its claim to notability is reinforced by references to "Aaron friggin' Boone" in current (2006) radio ads in the Boston area. I also suggest that, along the lines of the vanity rules, fans of a particular team should be circumspect in adding home runs by their favored team to this list. Matchups 21:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I think we need to revisit this topic. It's my opinion that wikipedia should not even designate "famous" walk-offs. Too much opinion and not enough encyclopedic value. This article should just list the walk-offs and leave it at that. The info in that section should be merged into the table of "postseason and all star game" walk-offs. X96lee15 16:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shouldn't there be a piece about the original rule?

I believe, and I could be wrong about some of the details, that Babe Ruth had one extra home run which didn't count as such because it was in a walkoff situation where they were down 1 and had two men on in the bottom of the ninth. He hit it over the fence and it only counted as a double because of the rules of the time. DandyDan2007 12:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

From Appendix B (Decisions of the Special Baseball Records Committee) of the 1996 Macmillan Baseball Encyclopedia: "Before 1920, when the team batting last won the game in the ninth or in an extra inning, the ruling was that the team could not win by more than one run. If a man hit an outside-the-park home run, which, under present rules, would have resulted in a victory by more than one run, he was given credit for a lesser hit and only the winning run counted. The committee originally voted that before 1920 any ball hit outside the park in a sudden death situation should be counted as a home run. However, after the committee had a further opportunity to review their ruling and polled their colleagues on the issue, they reversed their decision on May 5, 1969." 40 players lost home runs as a result, ranging from 1884 to 1918; Ruth's, on July 8, 1918, was the third to last. 14 were reduced to triples, 12 to doubles, and 14 to singles. 31 were in NL games, 5 in AL games, 3 in AA games and 1 in the PL. Jimmy Collins and Sherry Magee each lost two, and 36 players lost one each. 8 each were hit by the Boston Braves and NY Giants, and the Phillies had 5; I suspect short fences at the South End Grounds, Polo Grounds and Baker Bowl had something to do with it, and were partially responsible for the reverse decision. (Ruth's HR, which was ruled a triple, would have been at Fenway Park, where left field was 310 feet and the Green Monster hadn't yet been built.) MisfitToys 20:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regular season examples -- notability

After seeing this diff, I decided that there should be some guidelines as to what makes a walk-off home run exemplary. Here's what I came up with. Probably it should have at least three to be included:

  1. Caps a comeback from a large deficit
  2. Extra innings
  3. The team was losing at the time of the hit
  4. Teams involved in a pennant race
  5. Game or home run is otherwise notable

Nomar's hit mentioned at the beginning of this note meets the first four criteria. Matchups 12:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Thomson home run a regular season or playoff home run???

What Bobby Thomson's home run hit in a regular season or playoff game? The only official playoff at the time was the World Series, but his home run was hit during a "playoff" series to determine the pennant. So, it was not a regularly scheduled game, part of the regular season, yet it was not quite a playoff series either. Any thoughts? Editor437 03:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe any one-game "playoffs" to determine a playoff berth are considered as part of the regular season. X96lee15 04:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, these games (such as the 1978 AL East playoff) count in the regular season, and Thomson's famous HR is included in his 1951 regular season total. MisfitToys 22:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incomprehensible sentence

From the lead section:

The terms walk-off hit by pitch, the bases loaded base on balls dubbed the "walk-off walk" or walk-off balk have been applied, and the latter has been dubbed a balk-off (these types of questionable walk-offs are seen by some fans as cheapening the concept).

The first part of this sentence is quite incomprehensible to me. It needs rewriting, with quotation marks around the terms that are being mentioned so the reader can tell the difference between them and the active text. Hairy Dude (talk) 23:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)