Talk:Wagga Wagga, New South Wales

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[edit] request for comment

I've only ever heard of this lore told as the 5 o'clock wave - not 4 o'clock. Is anyone else familiar with this? --Centauri 10:49, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Eurythmics

On what basis is the claim being made that Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart formed the Eurythmics in a Wagga Wagga toilet? Both musicians were already in another band called the Tourists when they decided to form a duo. I can't find anything on the web to substantiate that claim about the toilet meeting. Megan1967 07:17, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I recall the story being in circulation in the music media in Australia in the mid 1980s, and heard it at that time from numerous sources, so I've always assumed it to be true.--Centauri 03:57, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Redirection of this page

This page should not have been moved without consultation. We have established a naming convention for all Australian places by concensus discussion on the Australian Wkipeidan's Noticeboard. While there is only one Wagga Wagga, many Australian place names are not unique. For the sake of simplifying disambiguation, all Australian places, other than State capitals with unique place names (ie not including Perth), are automatically disambiguated, including Townsville. Please see the current discussion at WP:AWNB#Naming_conventions.2C_again....--AYArktos 22:19, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Five O'Clock Wave

I have reverted the following addition to the Geography section:

The river also supports a sandy "beach" where people gather for picnics and barbeques in the summer months. The beach used to play host to the "Gummi Float" where people were encouraged to make rafts from inner tubing and sabotage their competition by throwing rotten eggs and flour at them. Those still nostalgic for the event can take a float down the river from "the Rocks" which are located some 600 metres upstream from the main beach area. Located on the river, the beach does not have ordinary waves, but at 5 o'clock every day, water laps towards the shore as flow relased from the Burrunjuck Dam upsteam washes through the area - this "phenomenon" is known affectionately as the Five O'clock Wave.

Before re-inserting please cite your sources. If it is a myth, please state clearly. This Lonely Planet reference implies the 5 Oclock wave is a piece of local folklore. Perhaps it could be included as folklore. The "Gummi Float" description also needs to be referenced.--A Y Arktos 21:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

This is definately a local myth and is in no way true. It is all meant as a joke --Zig c 11:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I remember a local myth about commuters from Narrandera catching the 5 o'clock wave home every day. Both the 5 o'clock wave and the Gummi races are mentioned in Sherry Morris' Wagga Wagga, a history. I've reinserted references in the History and Tourist Attractions sections. Gimboid13 00:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


I have removed any link between the five o'clock wave and the Wagga Effect. To my knowledge, the two have no relationship with one another. Please cite any sources here before trying to reimplement this link or it will be taken down again --Phraedus (talk) 10:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It's already sourced (Morris, S. (1999). Wagga Wagga, a history. Bobby Graham Publishers, p 261. ISBN 1-875247-12-2.) so I've readded it again. Bidgee (talk) 11:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Verifiability

Can we have some sources please? This needs to be verified. I note that someone has added a book source to the Wagga article. I will arrange in the next 7 days to read the book to affirm that it supports the assertions in the article which include reference to the 5 o'clock wave. My local contact had not heard of this piece of folklore and has been around the district long enough to come across it if it had existed.--A Y Arktos 07:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I lived in Wagga for 3 years, and the tale was related to me within days of my arrival there from Sydney in February 1985 - and I heard it related to many others over the following years. I don't know who your local contact is, but they seem peculiarly uninformed. --Gene_poole 05:34, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I went to Yanco Agricultural High School in the 1980's. This school is on the Murrubidgee River and we revelled in convincing boarders from the coast with stories about a daily wave that occurred every day whilst we were being served dinner, it was especially good because the river was off-limits regardless of the time of day. Garrie 00:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger of Wagga CBD Discussion

I think the article needs to be retained, but not as "Wagga Wagga CBD", instead it should be "Central Wagga" or "Central Wagga Wagga". Central Wagga is considered a distinct suburb by the Wagga Wagga City Council as much any of the other Wagga Wagga Suburbs articles on here. In fact it is one of the cities most highly populated suburbs. But the name is incorrect because there isn't an area of Wagga known as the CBD and the article needs to be re-written with the whole suburb as the focus.--Zig c 04:07, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

It should be in the city article as it doesn't have a lot of content and would most likely have some duplication since the city article should discuss its CBD. Garglebutt / (talk) 23:52, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
As at March 2006 the article still hasn't identified separate content from the city article and specific to place- I plan to merge shortly.--A Y Arktos 18:56, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I've had a go. Most of it was already included in the main article but I've copied across the remainder. - Gimboid13 08:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning of aboriginal words "wagga wagga"

Could somebody please cite a linguistic source for the meaning of "wagga wagga" in the dialect of the wiradjuri people? I know it is modern folklore that that is the meaning of the word. I know that is the understanding that lead to the place getting the name it now has. But was that understanding correct, or was it wrong? The same arguements are going on on the talk pages of several locations, and regardless of the way it is/was undertaken there was a similar arguement on the meaning of "murrumbidgee".

--Garrie 23:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I think the Geographical Names board of NSW is reliable source wihtin the scope of Wikipedia:Reliable sources booth for Wagga Wagga and Murrumbidgee. The GNB does in turn cite its sources.--A Y Arktos\talk 23:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
In this case I think they cite the city of wagga city council. Surely someone involved in the Wagga articles has some connection with the aboriginal land council, or is involved in studying the wiradjuri culture? GNB names have been shown to be factually wrong before, but once the name is an accepted place name then that is all the GNB care about (they are only a geographic names board after all).--Garrie 23:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Answered on user's talk page. GNB does not cite Wagga council but appears to have cited anthropologists.--A Y Arktos\talk 02:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] infobox obscelescence

I've converted the infobox to the new version, however there was some information left over that isn't in the main body:

|pophistoric= 627 (1861), 6,419 (1911), 19,235 (1954), 39,461 (1981) |pop2001=56,722 |railway=1879 from Sydney

Harryboyles 15:15, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wagga vs Wagga Wagga

Locals never call the place by its full name... but this isn't explained, the article just starts using Wagga as the single word.

Is it worth mentioning the song, Don't call Wagga Wagga, Wagga??? Garrie 10:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I've put in the lead sentence that it is informlly referred to as Wagga. As to the song, I'd probably make a section about unique Wagga customs, like the 5 o'clock wave. Harryboyles 10:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging Sturt Mall

Yes please - if this article should be kept at all it should definitely be merged into Wagga Wagga! VirtualSteve 07:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Keep Seperate: Sturt Mall should not be merged with Wagga Wagga. If Wagga Wagga Marketplace gets its own article, Sturt Mall should as well. I think some more information could be added to the article, but it has a good opening paragraph and a photo. --Whats new? 00:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As detailed above I withdraw my opinion that this article should be merged. User Whats new? makes a good point in relation to one in all in - and I whilst I have my own opinion as to whether that is a good reason for anything to be in Wikipedia - and as to whether a small country shopping mall is encyclopedic (I see 10's of 1,000's more separate articles for every shopping mall in Australia - not to mention the world) it seems it is important to others - see List of shopping centres in Australia. So I agree it should be kept separate and cleaned up (or perhaps deleted if it is not). VirtualSteve 01:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additonal external link

I think Wagga Guide at www.waggaguide.com.au should be considered for the external link section as it is an excellent resource on all aspects of Wagga. The site includes information useful to new residents like when to put your bins out or where to get new ones, location of hospitals, the local schools of all levels in the area, what shops are located where, and the city counsillors with their contact information for all levels of governement. There is information for visitors and what to do while in Wagga including upcoming events all the major pubs, restaurants and cafes. There are featured community based news stories about interesting local happenings. The website is updated regularly and is in the process of adding a lot of new content. what do you think? (Catrionakerr 03:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Article cleanup

There appears to be a plethora of unencyclopaedic material in the article. I would like to suggest a plan of attack to tidy it up prior to expansion.

  1. Remove the Future Developments section. This in encyclopaedic and is possibly a breach of WP:CRYSTAL especially as these projects seem to be in the "planning stage".
  2. Move the list of notable people to a separate article List of notable people from Wagga Wagga, New South Wales. A trimmed down prose section may be useful as a replacement.
  3. Write up as prose some of the more interesting trivia items as a section called perhaps "Wagga Wagga in popular culture" and delete the rest as unencyclopaedic. This should probably include a cut down version of the 5 O'Clock wave, the balance can be moved the dedicated article.
  4. Write the sport section as prose, including the Wagga Effect.
  5. Consolidate the TV, Radio and Newspaper sections into a prose section "Media"
  6. Remove the less notable events and include the rest as prose in the Recreation and Culture section.
  7. Trim some of the external links and bring them down to a reasonable size.

Others thoughts would be appreciated.--Mattinbgn/ talk 11:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Agreed Matt - Regarding prose I will focus on the Media section first off, then move on to Recreation and Culture.--VS talk 19:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Agree with most of the above but I don't think the 5 o'clock wave section shortened by much. It was originally an article in its own right and was merged with this article following a deletion nomination. It's an interesting piece of local folklore. Gimboid13 22:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Gimboid - I'm a bit fascinated by the absolute validity of the 5 o'clock reference (partly because I am a WW lad and I have never heard it refer to) but mainly because I note that it is referred to as the 4 o'clock wave elsewhere (and that article redirects to Wagga Wagga) but in any event your comments are thoughtful and noted.--VS talk 23:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Wagga is my home town too. I heard it mentioned occasionally when I was growing up, but that's a while ago now. I read somewhere there was once a surf shop in the main street called The 5 O'Clock Wave. I agree the timing of the wave is a bit vague. The article I mentioned above was originally called the 6 o'clock wave. Might be something to do with daylight saving. :) Gimboid13 10:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Daylight saving - that's pretty funny.--VS talk

With the events, I am tempted to be bold and delete the vast majority but it may be worth deferring to opinion here. Please let me know if there are there any in particular that should be kept. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 09:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Matt, I agree with your intention here - we are writing a GA which means moving away from this travel brochure content I would say. Towards that end I'd be looking for sort of strong WP:NN link within the article also. So I would suggest keep the Wagga Gold Cup(Australia's second oldest horse race), the Wagga Wagga Jazz Festival (which is seriously big deal) and perhaps the Group ( final. On the others as much as it will pain some WW people the Railway is not an event, and the rest do not (as far as I can tell) have their own level of serious notability. Anyway the're my thoughts for now.--VS talk 10:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Have relocated the Gold Cup to sport and will do the the same with the Group 9 Rugby league final. The jazz festival will sit nicely in recreation and culture. Thanks for the advice. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 10:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
You beat me to it - as per on your talk page. Regarding my comments on events - I like the way that you are incorporating it within the body itself which probably means the list section can disappear in full now or soon.--VS talk 10:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wagga Wagga versus Wagga

Just as a reference note - I am using Wagga Wagga for any formal reference, title etc and Wagga only in the informal areas.--VS talk 23:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Moving this article towards GA has meant removal of a couple of pure trivia items - about Pound Puppies, Harry Potter etc from the trivia section. I have also removed the following item for now and can not at this stage see why it should be included: *The Robert G. Barrett novel, "Mud Crab Boogie" is partially set in Wagga Wagga [1] but if there are any other thoughts please let us know?--VS talk 11:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Barrett novels are popular but with all respect to his fans not exactly classics of Australian literature. The book is notable enough but probably not enough for including in the Wagga article. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 22:18, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Hmmm - not guilty of including the Harry Potter trivia but I think it should stay. Think of the readership (as opposed to those who contribute) - ie the reader demographic is most likely to have also read Harry Potter and it might intreague them to find this factoid there. I know nothing of Pound Puppies though.--Golden Wattle talk 04:34, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I think the footnotes for the Wagga Wagga effect are overdone. Each of the articles for the sporting heroes shoud have a reference supporting them being from Wagga. If necessary, perhaps the one presently in this article if it isn't there already. This would get rid of footnotes 22 through to 31 and make both the section and the footnotes more readable.--Golden Wattle talk 04:34, 30 April 2007 (UTC)Y Done

[edit] Climate

Wagga Wagga's location on the inland side of the Great Dividing Range and elevation of 147 metres causes the city to have four distinct seasons. It doesn't cause the city to have four seasons. Being 147m ASL does have a part to play but so does location (much of Wagga Wagga is in a valley also) but the main part is the sun's location. As the sun moves north the high pressure systems also move north to give northern Australia the dry season but this allows lows and cold fronts from the deep south to move north over southern Australia being with them very cold. Once the sun moves south so do the high pressure systems which in the Summer (sometime Spring if it has been very dry and sunny) drags down hot dry air from the heart of Australia but sometimes drags down hot moist air from the Tropics. I've tried to not go to technical but I hope it helps. -- Bidgee 01:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I guess I haven't worded what I wanted to say correctly. I was trying to explain that it has an inland climate with larger extremes of temperature than the coast. I dont know what causes that either but it seems to be the case. Is this actually the case and if so any ideas on wording-- Mattinbgn/ talk 01:27, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Population

I have changed the population figure and reference from the City of Wagga Wagga LGA to the Wagga Wagga statistical district. The LGA figure includes areas such as Tarcutta that are outside the Wagga Wagga urban area. This is consistent with the treatment at List of cities in Australia by population. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 01:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moving forward

While the article is reasonably tidy now and much improved from its previous state, there is still plenty to do to get it to a state worth submitting as a Good article candidate.

  • The geography section could probably be moved above the history section.Y Done
  • The section on geography could include a section on the geology of Wagga Wagga. Sourcing this may be a problem.
  • The section on suburbs could be expanded and improved. Local knowledge may be useful here. Not sure how to source this either. Point to a UBD?
  • The history section needs expanding to include 20th century events.
  • The section on the Wagga bridges could probably be trimmed to remove details about the lease arrangements . It reads like a previous merge from a stand alone article.
Note I have removed the following at thist time ... however there was not to be a toll for the Governor, government employees, clergymen, mailmen or any private citizens travelling to and from church on a Sunday. The penalty for evading the toll was not to exceed £5 and the bridge would be a public bridge after 99 years and 21 years when the government could purchase the bridge. The Act also allowed the Company to charge a trespass penalty that was not to exceed £10 if anyone established a ferry for hire or profit with in 2 miles. It granted the Company capital of £4,000 but also allowed for the creation of more shares to £6,000.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by VirtualSteve (talk • contribs) 23:17, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

  • The list of notable people could be removed as I haven't been able to incorporate smoothly into the text. If other wish to try I am willing to hold off.
  • The education section needs sourcing. Are there any notable boarding schools in Wagga? Does Wagga act as a regional centre of high school education? The TAFE section could be expanded. Again sourcing may be an issue.
  • Defence is good, but some details on numbers employed and effect on the economy would be great.

Others thoughts? -- Mattinbgn/ talk 22:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Please note GW's thoughts (5 cents worth - rounded up  :-) ) above at trivia.--VS talk 04:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Just before I disappear again, some time ago I did some work on the Albury article comparing it with those articles which had gained featured article status. The results can be seen at Talk:Albury, New South Wales#Comparison of topics and size with other cities nominated as Featured Articles. Probably worth looking at some recently promoted featured articles to update the contents.
    • There should be a cite for the Navy presence in Wagga too - I know it exists and the present assertions are not disputed! :p --Golden Wattle talk 05:04, 30 April 2007 (UTC)Y Done (difficult but linked to HMAS Albatross)--VS talk 07:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Thanks, GW. Good to see you back, if only for a while. The table is a great idea. I had been informally comparing it to other articles, the systematic comparison makes it easy to see ehat could be usefully added. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 21:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Unless others have objections I am going to move the geography and climate sections above the history section as discussed above. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 21:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

  • No objection - although perhaps some of Geography content belongs in the Commercial area - or even in a separate sub-heading within Geography called Suburbs?--VS talk 22:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I have added a subsection called City and suburbs that needs expanding. It is not the most elegant name and so if anyone can think of a better please change it. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 01:28, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Population again

  • I don't like the figure in the article or the ABS ref as opposed to the one I have given immediately above. As per List of cities in Australia by population this pop figure and associated ref refers to statistical districts and I don't think stat district when I think of Wagga Wagga, I think urban centre, or the contiguous built-up areas of the city - ie the second of the lists in the List of Cities by pop. In the second list Wagga Wagga is number 29 28 (in this list) and has a pop of 44,272 the ref being ABS: >2016.0 - Census of Population and Housing: Selected Characteristics for Urban Centres, Australia, 2001. Australian Bureau of Statistics. - very closely aligned to the two most recent census figures.--Golden Wattle talk 11:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Happy for the population figure to change so long as it ties back to the List of cities in Australia by population, which it does. Of course it is now five years old but it probably as good as we are likely to get until the release of the new census figures.-- Mattinbgn/ talk 11:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
      • The 44,272 seems to be a current estimate - the last ten years seems to be pretty constant!--Golden Wattle talk 11:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I concur with both trains of thought - that is I see the direct link of 28th in both stats and I agree with the article changing to refer to an urban pop'n of 44,272 using reference cited by GW.--VS talk 12:46, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Have bitten the bullet and adjusted pop'n to above thoughts (correctly I think?)--VS talk 22:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC) Y Done
I've always wondered what Wagga's true Pop was not just the other towns added in. Great work guys(and girls). Pity I'm living in Darwin and working 12 hour shifts. -- Bidgee 17:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Literary refs

Literary refs plus other info for example on bushrangers from http://www.smh.com.au/news/new-south-wales/wagga-wagga/2005/02/17/1108500200023.html includes Wagga "been home to a number of Australian writers, such as poets Mary Gilmore (who grew up and taught here), Barcroft Boake, and Frank Moorhouse (who worked as a journalist on the Daily Advertiser)." I can't find anything notable where Wagga has been the subject of a fictional work.--Golden Wattle talk 01:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)Y Done Started both sections (Law and order/Literary links - more content in literary definitely needed)--VS talk 00:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

  • So are we suggesting a sub-heading under Culture titled City in Literature or other?--VS talk 04:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I think so, but with just the "Wagga Wagga werewolf" ref from Harry Potter it is a little thin at present but as a sub heading it would not matter so much. It would also give us something to work at filling. I suggested "Wagga Wagga in popular culture" as a heading for this sort of thing but I am not sure that is the best name for what we are looking for. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 05:14, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Could also include the Bee Gees "Morning of my life" reference as well, provided we find a reference. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 05:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Not sure if I like that suggested title - probably because I'd like to steer away from the obvious Wagga Wagga in part - would rather something like Literary Links (although that is probably a bit kitsch)? PS we also have Bryce Courtney's reference and the Pound Puppies one to add in...--VS talk 08:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Agreed about the "Wagga Wagga in..." bit. 'Literary links" isn't too bad. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 08:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Also Greg Champion's song Dont call Wagga Wagga Wagga should be included. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 01:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison of topics and size with other international city Featured Articles

*Table incorporated courtesy of an idea from (the somewhat retired  :-> ) Golden Wattle*
I suggest we use the notations NA; Nil; Partial; Almost; & Completed (with adjustments to be made as editors come to varying conclusions).--VS talk 07:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I probably should have added that even if we only continue for GA (or A status) this table as a comparison tool sets nice high standards...--VS talk 22:38, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Would others mind if we move the table to Talk:Wagga Wagga, New South Wales/Comparison table so we could keep this page for discussion? -- Mattinbgn/ talk 21:07, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Fine - with a link at the top of this page perhaps so that we can get to and fro it easily?--VS talk 04:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Now done - link coming up (will put in to do box).--VS talk 04:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

See Talk:Wagga Wagga, New South Wales/Comparison table for comparison table--VS talk 04:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Comparison table on the sub page is great, much easier to find. Thanks. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 05:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Panoramic Image

I have moved the panoramic image from the gallery to the geography section. I love the picture and I think if fits well with the topic but I am conscious that it may look overwhelming in the article. If other editors wish to move it back to the gallery I would not be too concerned. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 06:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Actually I thought that it looked quite good in the larger size (doesn't work very well as an image in a smaller size is what I am trying to say).--VS talk 08:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Getting closer!

We may be getting to the stage where a sub article - History of Wagga Wagga is needed if we both keep adding content this quickly :-). I still have some info on the wars, depression and the New State Movement in the 1930s I would like to add and then a little on post war history such as establishment of Kapooka, Forest Hill and Wagga Airport, the Base Hospital and the Council amalgamation.

Good idea delinking Fearnes, the article was deleted a while ago now and notability is unlikely to be established. I will also add some stuff on literary links, such the Greg Champion song, even the Barrett book could go back perhaps. -- Mattinbgn/ talk`

  • Agree totally with sub article - At this stage I am trying to limit material because of size of the main article which is at 54kbs (already larger than the largest on our list of FA's). If you want to move across I will support and update the sub.Y Done
Sub article created - now we need to summarise the history section of the article. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 00:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Also agree with Champion song and Barrett book - will leave those to you if you like. I will return Potter and Pound Puppies ref's (briefly) - sound okay?
  • I am going to try to de redlink some of the left-over articles over the next few days - like I did with Daily Advertiser.--VS talk 00:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mary Gilmore

We have included her twice, once under culture and again under literary links. Where do you think is best? -- Mattinbgn/ talk 00:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Sorry missed that one - I think Gilmore should remain in Culture given her importance and have adjusted.--VS talk 00:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)Y Done
  • Sorry - I re-added her under literary links. I think that section probably needs more work given I can't think it really has captured anybody's imagination much since nobody has written about it in a prominent way that we remember. Wagga Wagga obviously lacks the ring of Gundagai!--Golden Wattle talk 03:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third party overview

I think we are very close to a GA article and probably ready for a review. In my mind considering how close we all are to the article I propose to put it under the scrutiny of another editor for their comments. My suggestion is Nehrams2020 who provided great assistance in the case of Riverina - and from there (if necessary) we can tackle the last couple of things. Can you let me know your thoughts please Matt and GW?--VS talk 07:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Go for it--Golden Wattle talk 07:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Definitely needs another set of eyes. I read it a couple of times today but I am too close to it at this stage to read it properly. If Nehrams2020 is willing, he would be a good choice.-- Mattinbgn/ talk 07:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Okay well thanks folks. I will go to Nehrams first and see if he can - if not then it's off to nomination I go.--VS talk 07:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA comments

Thanks for considering me before nominating, I just finished a final, so thought I could help with the review of this one before going off to study for another final. This may look like a lot, but it's about average compared to what I comment on for other articles of this length. Most of the things found below are really easy to fix, or may not even apply as some are just suggestions or my American English grammar compared to Australian English. Here are a few suggestions:

  1. For the lead, I'd recommend that some of the single sentences that stand alone be incorporated into the other paragraphs or expanded upon. For the intro sentence, just add the second paragraph to it. The lead is for summarizing the majority of the topics of the article, so consider rewording or adding some information. Make sure not to add too much, or you'll defeat the purpose of the intro. If you want more info, look at WP:LEAD.Y Done
  2. There are a lot of images on the page licensed under the Creative Commons. If they're your guys' pictures, maybe consider getting an account at Wikimedia Commons and uploading them there in case any other Wikis would like to use the images. Comment - I have written to Bidgee on this issue a couple of times in the past - I think most are his images but to date he hasn't responded on an interest to move them to Wiki Commons.
  3. I may be mistaken, and Australian English may differ, but I think that south west and south east should be one word. If I'm wrong, ignore this.Y Done'but not for South West Slopes - which is so named'
  4. Although List of Wagga Wagga suburbs and localities is not part of the article, I'd recommend expanding it some if you ever want to take this article to FA. Right now it looks a little bare.
  5. "By 1849 the town was marked out by surveyor Thomas Townshend and formally gazetted as a village ." Remove spacing between village and the period.Y Done
  6. The years are all wikilinked in the first part of the history section, except starting at 1868 not many single years are wikilinked. They should either all be or not be wikilinked so it is uniform.Y Done Also add wikilinks for banks, solicitors, doctors and dentists.Y Done
  7. "The Wagga Wagga Advertiser still published today as the The Daily Advertiser commenced in 1868" Rewrite to "The Wagga Wagga Advertiser is still published today as The Daily Advertiser commenced in 1868", and also italicize The Daily Advertiser.Y Done
  8. I'd recommend directing the link for Mayor to Mayor#Australia, ex: [[Mayor#Australia|Mayor]]. Also do the same for in the Government section.Y Done Add wikilink for library.Y Done
  9. "In 1895 Hampden Bridge, a truss bridge was built across the Murrumbidgee River at Wagga." Rewrite as "In 1895 a truss bridge, Hampden Bridge, was built across the Murrumbidgee River at Wagga."Y Done
  10. "With increasing prosperity and population Wagga and surrounding district became a place of interest to several infamous bushrangers." Reword to either "With its increasing prosperity..." or "...and population Wagga and its surrounding district became..."Y Done
  11. "Notoriously the Wagga police magistrate Henry Baylis was bailed up by Mad Dog Morgan in 1863." This sentence should also be reworded, doesn't read well with the sentence starting with "Norotriously". Also fix the link for Mad Dog Morgan, currently goes to a sports player.Y Done
  12. "Captain Moonlite and his band arrived in the district on November 15, 1879 and held up all 39 people at Wantabadgery Station." Remove all.Y Done
  13. "From 1898, a group of residents..." Reword to "In 1898".Y Done
  14. "After a series of major floods in the early 1950s, the City Council protected the city area on the south flood plain through construction of a levee, completed in 1962, and provided protection from 1 in 100 year floods." For the last part of the sentence, was it protected one flood in a hundred years, or one in the possible hundred floods? If so, reword the sentence a little better, it's somewhat confusing. Also, in the same paragraph you use amalgamated/ion twice, remove one for some more variety.Y Done
  15. "The main sources of employment in Wagga Wagga include Education, Retailing, Health and Defence." The words at the end don't need to be capitalized.Y Done
  16. "As well as Wagga Wagga itself the City Council area includes the outlying towns of Tarcutta, Ladysmith, Mangoplah, Collingullie and Uranquinty covering an area of 4,824km2.[44]." Remove the period after the inline citation.Y Done
  17. "Wagga Wagga Railway Station is located on the Sydney-Melbourne railway line. with twice daily XPT fast rail services provided by CountryLink, the state owned passenger rail service." This needs to be reworded, it looks like something got chopped off or there is just an extra period in there.Y Done
  18. In the Recreation and culture section, there is a single sentence standing alone as an intro to the section. I'd recommend removing it Y Done and incorporating it into another section if desired since the section before it (Industry) doesn't have an intro. If you want to keep the sentence, then develop it into a few more sentences and do the same for the Industry section. This also occurs in the media section.Y Done
  19. "The Murrumbidgee River at Wagga Wagga supports a sandy beach, a popular location for picnics and barbeques in the summer months." Reword to "The Murrumbidgee River at Wagga Wagga supports a sandy beach, and it is a popular location for picnics and barbeques in the summer months." or something like that.Y Done
  20. "Those still nostalgic for the event can take a float down the river from "The Rocks" which are located some 600 metres upstream from the main beach area." This sounds a little like something out of a travel guide, could probably be reworded a bit to be more encyclopedic.Y Done
  21. "Prior to and after opening the theatre was was the subject of severe criticism as critics lamented the destruction of rose gardens removed to allow construction, the size of the orchestra pit and the seating (497 seats) as well as the design of the feature mural." The first part of this sentence needs to be reworded.Y Done
  22. Consider moving the 5 'o Clock Wave subheading section to the Sporting section, but it's not necessary.Y Done
  23. Move the image gallery up above the references, some readers may miss it.Y Done
  24. In edit mode, some of the citation templates take up a lot of space in the article. If you can, condense them, it's better to have the items right after each other rather than taking up so much space. It will make it easier for other people to edit the article.Y Done

Again, most of these should be easy to fix. The article looks very good, and I'm impressed by the number of inline citations. If you want further clarification for any of these, please let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Good luck with the nomination, it'll probably be a long while before anybody reviews it due to the backlog. If you help review the articles that are before yours, or in other sections, it would possibly speed up the review time of your article. Thanks for the break from studying and I hope it passes. --Nehrams2020 23:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks Nehrams2020 - my wagga wagga wiki colleagues and I will get to these final list of suggestions and then submit. Having assisted in reviewing a couple of GA and GA potential articles recently I also appreciate the prompt to actually add my name to Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles and will join up immediately after posting this message.--VS talk 23:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination

For the information of those editors assisting in getting this article to what is hopefully a GA level (and other editors coming to this page in the next little while) - This article is now nominated here as number 15 in the current locations list of today's date--VS talk 07:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks for putting the nomination box on this page Nehrams2020--VS talk 07:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA pass

The article is comprehensive, but you seem to have done a good job of forking information out and keeping everything in context. I only have a few suggestions-that a few paragraphs without citations, like "City and suburbs" and "Geography" get them. "City and suburbs" also reads a bit like a brochure-I would suggest that you fix that. Overall, however, this article deserves GA! ErleGrey 19:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Wonderful news - thank you for the time to review this long article. Best wishes.--VS talk 22:19, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 Census

The results of the 2006 census have been released. The population Wagga Wagga LGA is 57,015. There is no urban/locality data for Wagga Wagga and looks like the suburbs are counted individually. The Wagga Wagga (Statistical District) which includes Forest Hill, Kapooka, Estella and Lloyd are included within this census data. The Wagga Wagga (Statistical District) has a population figure of 52,489. The census data is avaiable from here Census data Wagga Wagga Brt8 00:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead section

Even given the length of this article, I think the lead is a bit long. Also, it repeats the "true lead" in the first paragraph with expanded infomration: millitary importance is introduced in para 1, then repeated in para 4 and expaned even more in para 5 (yes, we're still in the lead section!) At 58 kb, WP:LEAD recommends "three or four paragraphs". At the current length, even as an interested reader I'm bored before I get a chance to scroll down to the table of contents. Personally, para 5 is "just bragging" and adds nothing to what is already mentioned. There's no need to go into statistics "22 primary schools, 8 secondary schools and a regional institute of TAFE with 18 campuses..." So having said all that - should para 5 just dissapear or does somebody want to do something a bit more subtle? ps, are all those 18 campuses in Wagga Wagga? NO they are not. Garrie 05:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Agree with removing para 5. I would suggest being bold and making any changes to the lead that you see fit. I must admit the lead isn't the most elegant piece of prose I have written and a good rewrite would make a big difference. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 13:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History section

This should summarise History of Wagga Wagga. Currently - it needs someone to merge this section with that article. There is information here, which doesn't seem to exist there. Which is a problem: I was about to drop a summary of History of Wagga Wagga over the top of this history section, which is too long and has no subheadings.

I will work on it over the next week, merging this section with the dedicated history article, then moving a summary back here. SO when it shrinks, you'll know why.Garrie 05:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I see that's what Mattinbgn had in mind... it's a shame this history section continued to grow and the dedicated article seems not to have really grown much (just images added).Garrie 05:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Steve and I had a shot at summarising the History article. Of course, when you write most of the original is it hard to be ruthless when editing as you get attached to some of the minutiae and some padding will sneak through. Another pass through the two articles to ensure consistency and to tighten up the content would be useful. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 13:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
My question though - is History of Wagga Wagga "complete", incorporating everything that's in the "History" section here? So if I (and I had nothing to do with History of Wagga Wagga) summarise that article and replace this "History" section, will anything be left out? I'm a local, but I can be ruthless with this fairly easily.Garrie 22:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The first edit in History of Wagga Wagga was a dump of the entire content of the history section of the main Wagga article. New content was then added to the History of Wagga Wagga article. Once this was complete, a summary of the history article was created in the history section of the main article. This was done with an attempt to preserve existing content where appropriate. In the meantime it is possible that some additional content was added to the history section of the main article and not the history article, although I do not recall doing so myself. I think the the history article is complete but if you can see content in the main article that is not reflected in the history article then it is probably wise to move that over. Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 22:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, I'll have a careful look before I can it replace it with a more rutheless summary.Garrie 22:19, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

History section still looks long to me especially since it has its own article. Michellecrisp 01:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that Garrie has not done his more ruthless summary yet. I think we all agree it is a little too long. Please feel free to be bold and remove anything you think needs removing. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 03:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, real life / school holidays. Go ahead and be more than bold, be ruthless...Garrie 04:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Agree on the ruthlessness. While I don't think the section is "woefull" (but I am of course biased :-)) it certainly needs a severe trim and a tightening of the prose. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 10:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry that is harsh wording - the sections are woeful in the context of applying summary style rather than simply "woeful" in isolation.Garrie 03:31, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found it to be under-referenced. These statements require inline citations:

  • "This has been recognised in the foundation stone of St Michael's Roman Catholic Cathedral, which is written in Latin and translates the city's name as Corvopolitanus ("corvus" being the Latin word for crow)." reworded but Y Done
  • "Jeremiah Finn built the Golden Age Hotel in Fitzmaurice Street, the first hotel to be built in South Wagga Wagga, in 1873. He held the licence of this hotel until 26 June 1886, when the licence was transferred to George Wood.The Golden Age, was then renamed the Southern Cross and later the Duke of Kent." Y Done removed in its entirety, if it belongs anywhere it is the main article History of Wagga Wagga not in the summary style section.
  • "In addition Wagga Wagga is home to eight secondary schools and 22 primary schools."
  • "It is speculated that the phenomenon may arise in rural areas where the population is large enough to sustain the presence of a large number of sporting codes, but small enough to ensure that talented individuals are exposed to adult-level competition at an earlier age."Y Done
  • "the Victory Memorial Gardens were established in 1925" Y Done, with a slight reword
  • "the Riverina Theatre Company is Australia's longest running regional theatre company" Y Done, with slight reword
  • Each famous sportsperson from Wagga Wagga needs a cite. Y Done, see below

Also, years on their own should not be linked. Y Done - agreed, not sure how slipped in.

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GA/R). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions. Regards, Epbr123 19:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the assertion that Each famous sportsperson from Wagga Wagga needs a cite - the references would be too crowded. Cites belong in their own articles which of course are wikilinked. I have added the link tot he ref at the end of the paragraph to the list of the inductees of the Hall of Fame which include everyone in the section except Peter Mortimer, Nathan Sharpe, Sally Shiphard. Sharpe's article contains external links which reference the content but not the Wagga connection as does Sally Shiphard's article (though note born in Tumut and there is no ref to her growing up in Wagga). I conclude therefore that both Sharpe's and Shipard's articles needs a ref to Wagga and Mortimer's article needs references. All other references are supported by being inductees of the Wagga sporting hall of fame.--Golden Wattle talk 21:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Peter MortimerY Done, Nathan SharpeY Done and Sally ShipardY Done will need citations in their articles. Epbr123 21:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Pass

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 14:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] School links

For future use...

[edit] Photos

I'm in Wagga for the next few days so while I'm here is there any photos needed for any Wagga articles? -- Bidgee 12:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] People from Wagga Wagga?

What are people from Wagga Wagga called? Wagganites?? Waggaish?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DeadlyAssassin (talk • contribs) 03:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Wagga-ite singular, Wagga-ites group, & Sir if you are alone and the one you meet is bigger than you (which is almost always the case because of the nutrients in the water).--VS talk 04:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)